My ideas

Sykk

So I wrote up a word document and sent it to my local TD.. Probably not that it will be any use but it just best describes my ideas on how to fix some problems.

It's a very long read so TL;DR comments expected! For those of you who do read please let me know what you think.

Cheers!

Here's a few statements, ideas and questions I'd like to express.

Oil companies being charged 25% tax for our oil and gas reserves when in other countries the tax is as high as 90%. Why isn't the tax raised?

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I work full time and I'm currently doing a degree. Because I'm working I'm not eligible for a grant so the fees are on me. Despite coming out with little more than people on welfare after tax, rent, living expenses have been paid.

My suggestion: Instead of giving away college grants for free - which is insane if you ask me, even for the people who need them. Once means tests are done and the grant is approved, give the person their grant but it must be repayed within 15 years, 20 if they're doing a Ph.D or study that requires 8 years or longer. Charge them an interest rate of 0.001%. Over a period of 50 years, billions would be saved in avoidable costs.

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The entire welfare system is black and white. There's no middle ground, situations aren't taken into consideration. If a couple are unemployed and on the dole, it's almost pointless for one of them to get a low paying job, simply because the other loses his/her dole. Where's the incentive to work?

A few years back in my previous studies, a friend of mine lived with his girlfriend for his first year of college. He was refused a grant, welfare and back to education allowance because she worked over 30 hours a week and received a weekly wage of €350.

The same person, no longer lived with his girlfriend for his second year of college. He got his grant, dole and back to education allowance which gave him €400 per week.

I don't need to explain the total lack of common sense here. The welfare system needs to be scrapped and given an entire reform.

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So when/if I get a bout of illness I simply can't afford the €60 to walk into a doctor to get a prescription. If I was on the dole, however, I can walk in with my medical card and get my free healthcare. Again, since after tax, college, expenses and the rest of it - I simply can't afford to get sick.

My suggestion: Get rid of the medical card, every living person in the country pays €10 every three months which would amount to a total of over €180,000,000 per year for healthcare... Healthcare becomes free for everyone except those who wish to avail of it privately.

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Scrap the Croke Park agreement, it has effectively done the opposite of what it was created for. It's just protecting fat cats with massive salaries and pensions.

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A team of highly experienced people should be recruited, with a minimum of 15 years experience and a minimum of a Masters in the following fields..

Business, Economics, Environmental studies, Management and Organization, Technology Management and Law

Let them study Finland and Germany's Public transport, healthcare and education systems which are second to none. Learn from them, and extract and implement their policies which work so well.

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Middle management in public service is so unnecessarily bulging and someone needs to stand up and trim the fat.

Sorry for the wall of text, enjoy the read.

El Weirdo

My suggestion: Get rid of the medical card, every living person in the country pays €10 every three months which would amount to a total of over €180,000,000 per year for healthcare... Healthcare becomes free for everyone except those who wish to avail of it privately.

I think you'll find that healthcare for the country comes to a little bit more than €180,000,000 per year. Also, if you're paying for it, it's not free, is it?

smash

"Get rid of the medical card, every living person in the country pays €10 every three months which would amount to a total of over €180,000,000 per year for healthcare"

Is this on top of the health levy we pay through or taxes?

Turtyturd

Make smokers pay 10 euro evey month and you're onto something OP.





this should be good

Sykk

Yes. It's additional. And it's the contribution towards free healthcare for everyone.. It's through tax for people who are working and through welfare payments for those who are not working.

Also, if you're paying for it, it's not free, is it?

When you visit the doctor with a wart on your testicles and don't need to pay him €60 to look at it, then yes I would call it free.

MagicMarker

What about free cheese?

El Weirdo

Sykk wrote: »

Yes. It's additional. And it's the contribution towards free healthcare for everyone.. It's through tax for people who are working and through welfare payments for those who are not working.



When you visit the doctor with a wart on your testicles and don't need to pay him €60 to look at it, then yes I would call it free.

But I haven't been to the doctor in about 10 years. Under your scheme I'd have paid €400 specifically for a service that I haven't used.

And again, €180,000,000 is a tiny fraction of the healthcare budget per year.

Sykk

El Weirdo wrote: »

But I haven't been to the doctor in about 10 years. Under your scheme I'd have paid €400 specifically for a service that I haven't used.

And again, €180,000,000 is a tiny fraction of the healthcare budget per year.

So if you finish going to school and you're now working, should you not pay taxes to fund the education anymore?

Healthcare and Education must always be funded by the taxpayer.

It's not a tiny fraction. It's effectively added instead of subtracted to the budget and considering over 50% of this country avails of private healthcare, It's a massive sum..

El Weirdo

Sykk wrote: »

So if you finish going to school and you're now working, should you not pay taxes to fund the education anymore?

Healthcare and Education must always be funded by the taxpayer.

It's not a tiny fraction. It's effectively added instead of subtracted to the budget and considering over 50% of this country avails of private healthcare, It's a massive sum..

Look, I agree with you that having to pay 60 notes to see the doctor is ridiculous and I think there should be some kind of NHS-type system and I agree that taxes would need to raised to pay for such a thing.

To be frank, the whole suggestion is ridiculously simplistic and if I'm being brutally honest, the whole document actually reads like that chain email doing the rounds a while back that called for everyone in the country to be given a million quid so they could pay off their mortgages or buy a house in order to get the economy going again..

Sykk

El Weirdo wrote: »

Look, I agree with you that having to pay 60 notes to see the doctor is ridiculous and I think there should be some kind of NHS-type system and I agree that taxes would need to raised to pay for such a thing.

To be frank, the whole suggestion is ridiculously simplistic and if I'm being brutally honest, the whole document actually reads like that chain email doing the rounds a while back that called for everyone in the country to be given a million quid so they could pay off their mortgages or buy a house in order to get the economy going again..

Can you elaborate? Bar the healthcare idea which you've already given your opinion on. Where else do you fee flaws, that guys idea was flawed because first off you needed 140bn to get it started.

Fluorescence

What exactly do you expect your local TD will be able to do with your email?

Mickey H

OP might be onto something here in fairness.

Turtyturd wrote: »

Make smokers pay 10 euro evey month and you're onto something OP.

100% of non smokers die - fact.

El Weirdo

Sykk wrote: »

Can you elaborate? Bar the healthcare idea which you've already given your opinion on. Where else do you fee flaws, that guys idea was flawed because first off you needed 140bn to get it started.

Well, the whole thing is made up of short statements that may sound well and good, but there are no real figures to back them up or show that any real research has gone into them. Just a couple of anecdotes.

Hey, but if it's for your local TD, it probably needs to be written down in small bite-size pieces anyway. Best not to confuse them.

sbsquarepants

My suggestion: Get rid of the medical card, every living person in the country pays €10 every three months which would amount to a total of over €180,000,000 per year for healthcare... Healthcare becomes free for everyone except those who wish to avail of it privately.

I'm not sure of my figures, but i'd imagine the health service costs a lot more than that, in fact id say probably at least 50 times as much!

RichieC

Turtyturd wrote: »

Make smokers pay 10 euro evey month and you're onto something OP.





this should be good

you mean on top of the €6 plus per 20 they already pay?

ScumLord

Minor tweaks to a system that will never work, wipe it all out and start again.

mikom

Sykk wrote: »

My ideas

My ideas.
Larger font.

envirowill

I work full time and I'm currently doing a degree. Because I'm working I'm not eligible for a grant so the fees are on me. Despite coming out with little more than people on welfare after tax, rent, living expenses have been paid.

My suggestion: Instead of giving away college grants for free - which is insane if you ask me, even for the people who need them. Once means tests are done and the grant is approved, give the person their grant but it must be repayed within 15 years, 20 if they're doing a Ph.D or study that requires 8 years or longer. Charge them an interest rate of 0.001%. Over a period of 50 years, billions would be saved in avoidable costs.

This is a pretty naive point of view. Means testing is apoor method of determining if people can afford something. You proved it with the story about your friend. You are reckoning that by the time someone graduates they would be in a position to start paying back the loans. What if they're not? What if they must pay back the loans despite earning little wages plus paying rent, bills etc on top of that? And what if during those loan paying years a deep recession hits where jobs are scarce and graduates are unable to secure jobs and pay back the loans? Would they be allowed to defer? An amnesty? What if they leave the country? Free fees is something we do take for granted but for a small population it is one of the few good factors in our country. I have worked in a university (and my partner is currently working in a university) and having experienced it paying full fees for the current standards would be a rip off. The government would have to completely revamp the 3rd level education system before doing this as it would in theory bring our universities on par with the UK and the states....which realisically will never happen.

Sykk

El Weirdo wrote: »

Well, the whole thing is made up of short statements that may sound well and good, but there are no real figures to back them up or show that any real research has gone into them. Just a couple of anecdotes.

Hey, but if it's for your local TD, it probably needs to be written down in small bite-size pieces anyway. Best not to confuse them.

Yeah okay that makes sense. I didn't back it up with figures because they may not be absolutely 100% and AH would tear me a new arsehole.

But I have done research on everything

I could number crunch but I don't want to spend hours on something that probably won't even get read.

Thanks for the criticism

Phill Ewinn

Newsflash! Your local TD doesn't give a fvck. If he/she did we wouldn't be in this mess. That letter is going in the bin and you are getting a polite PFO letter in return

Sykk

envirowill wrote: »

This is a pretty naive point of view. Means testing is apoor method of determining if people can afford something. You proved it with the story about your friend. You are reckoning that by the time someone graduates they would be in a position to start paying back the loans. What if they're not?

If you're undertaking studies and can't afford it, you'll get a bank loan and end up paying €10,000 on interest on top of what you borrowed. This allows you to pay it back over 15/20 years..

If you finish a degree in three, four or five years.. Surely you'll be able to get a job and start repayments within 10 years of that?

envirowill

Sykk wrote: »

If you're undertaking studies and can't afford it, you'll get a bank loan and end up paying €10,000 on interest on top of what you borrowed. This allows you to pay it back over 15/20 years..

If you finish a degree in three, four or five years.. Surely you'll be able to get a job and start repayments within 10 years of that?

Surely? But that is the issue. There is no guarantee that our graduates will get jobs. The best time to have introduced fees would have been in the celtic tiger when people had more money than sense. Now you are looking to charge people for an education when they would possibly struggle to pay it back. It doesn't make sense.

smash

Sykk wrote: »

When you visit the doctor with a wart on your testicles and don't need to pay him €60 to look at it, then yes I would call it free.

- Hi I'd like to see the doctor please, I have severe pains in my chest..

- No problem, take a seat and once these 500 people with a head cold are finished with their free visit we'll see you.

Sure OP, that will work. Once it becomes free then everyone will be at the doctor for the tiniest little thing.

El Weirdo

smash wrote: »

- Hi I'd like to see the doctor please, I have severe pains in my chest..

- No problem, take a seat and once these 500 people with a head cold are finished with their free visit we'll see you.

Sure OP, that will work. Once it becomes free then everyone will be at the doctor for the tiniest little thing.

That's bollocks.

smash

El Weirdo wrote: »

That's bollocks.

No it's not. Only times I've been to the doctor is if I'm very bad, otherwise I'll save my money. But when I have been, I've seen people in there with colds, sore arms and general bs excuses to be there, and they're mostly medical card holders. If it's free, then people will use the service at will.

shanered

Maybe introduce a system that if your visit warrents a visit, you maybe reinbursed some money, colds you pay full wack...

Sykk

smash wrote: »

No it's not. Only times I've been to the doctor is if I'm very bad, otherwise I'll save my money.

There you go. This shouldn't be the case in a first world country. The amount of people who die every year due to leaving it too late to go to the doctor includes people who didn't have the money to go get themselves checked out.[/quote]

But when I have been, I've seen people in there with colds, sore arms and general bs excuses to be there, and they're mostly medical card holders. If it's free, then people will use the service at will.

This, as El Weirdo said, is bollocks.

smash

Sykk wrote: »

This, as El Weirdo said, is bollocks.

Because it throws a spanner in the works of your argument does not mean it's bollox.

El Weirdo

smash wrote: »

No it's not. Only times I've been to the doctor is if I'm very bad, otherwise I'll save my money. But when I have been, I've seen people in there with colds, sore arms and general bs excuses to be there, and they're mostly medical card holders. If it's free, then people will use the service at will.

Whenever myself or my family has had a medical card, we have never used them.

My anecdote is as good as your anecdote.

Fluorescence

smash wrote: »

No it's not. Only times I've been to the doctor is if I'm very bad, otherwise I'll save my money. But when I have been, I've seen people in there with colds, sore arms and general bs excuses to be there, and they're mostly medical card holders. If it's free, then people will use the service at will.

That is true. Unless you've a medical card it's far too expensive to go to a doctor unless you're really dying. If visits were free the expense of a trip wouldn't be an issue and people would go all the time for papercuts and the like :rolleyes:

That said, some sort of scheme that would partially cover GP visits' costs would be a huge help. There still seems to be a fear of doctors in Ireland - people have an attitude of, "Ah sure, I'm probably grand," and put off going. Expenses would be 1 less excuse to go for that check up.

smash

El Weirdo wrote: »

Whenever myself or my family has had a medical card, we have never used them.

Then you obviously don't have a scrounger mentality like a lot of people do.

fluorescence wrote: »

That said, some sort of scheme that would partially cover GP visits' costs would be a huge help.

VHI etc do this, but that's expensive itself.

El Weirdo

smash wrote: »

If it's free, then people will use the service at will.

I wonder are there figures from countries that have free GP visits like the UK, to back up this claim?

smash

El Weirdo wrote: »

I wonder are there figures from countries that have free GP visits like the UK, to back up this claim?

I'd argue that in countries where it is free, it's not abused because the people that live there don't feel a sense of entitlement like the Irish. Our social welfare systems are abused to the point of obscenity and this would be no different.

I know someone who broke his nose but didn't want to pay the €100 in A&E. Someone told him to go to the GP for €70 and get a free referral, then someone else told him to call an ambulance because it's free and he wouldn't have to pay A&E charges or wait in the que. So he did it.

RichieC

smash wrote: »

I'd argue that in countries where it is free, it's not abused because the people that live there don't feel a sense of entitlement like the Irish. Our social welfare systems are abused to the point of obscenity and this would be no different.

:rolleyes:

Sykk

smash wrote: »

Then you obviously don't have a scrounger mentality like a lot of people do.

My three brothers and ould fella are tradesmen, so they've been on the dole the past two years. They've not been to the doctor once in the past two years either.

So many of my friends are on the dole and they also never head to the doctor but I guess your experience is different.

VHI etc do this, but that's expensive itself.

50% of the country uses private healthcare so public funding wouldn't be affected.

_feedback_

smash wrote: »

Because it throws a spanner in the works of your argument does not mean it's bollox.

It's not bollocks for that reason, because it doesn't throw a spanner in the works.

To suggest that there would be a load of people lining up because of head colds is ridiculous, before you ever add the rest of the statement in to the equation.

El Weirdo

smash wrote: »

I'd argue that in countries where it is free, it's not abused because the people that live there don't feel a sense of entitlement like the Irish. Our social welfare systems are abused to the point of obscenity and this would be no different.

I know someone who broke his nose but didn't want to pay the €100 in A&E. Someone told him to go to the GP for €70 and get a free referral, then someone else told him to call an ambulance because it's free and he wouldn't have to pay A&E charges or wait in the que. So he did it.

I know someone who's brother's girlfriend's sister-in-law's cat... blah, blah, blah...

Anecdotal shite again.

smash

El Weirdo wrote: »

I know someone who's brother's girlfriend's sister-in-law's cat... blah, blah, blah...

Good for you. Still doesn't distract from the fact that it did happen.

El Weirdo

smash wrote: »

Good for you. Still doesn't distract from the fact that it did happen.

What? So it happened once. It may have done, but you seem to think that just because some people may abuse the system, that everyone else should go without.

smash

El Weirdo wrote: »

What? So it happened once. It may have done, but you seem to think that just because some people may abuse the system, that everyone else should go without.

Ok...
• If you're working and really sick, go to the doc and pay €70.
• If you're working and pay VHI and are really sick, go to the doc and pay €70 and claim some back.
• If you're not working and you have a medical card and you're really sick then go to the doc.

If you need to go to a specialist or the hospital then it's free anyway unless you decide to go the private route. I fail to see why it should be totally free and the cost passed on to everyone in the country.

Sure the unemployed wouldn't pay the extra €10 anyway, and children can't pay it so the parents have to. Why add another fkn tax to those who work?

Sykk

smash wrote: »

Sure the unemployed wouldn't pay the extra €10 anyway, and children can't pay it so the parents have to. Why add another fkn tax to those who work?

You're so stubborn and argumentative that you didn't even read my original post. Everybody pays it.

It's extracted from their welfare every three months or differs if they'd prefer to pay it themselves. You can't just not pay.. That's the same as people "just not" paying their tax.

smash

Sykk wrote: »

You're so stubborn and argumentative that you didn't even read my original post. Everybody pays it.

It's extracted from their welfare every three months or differs if they'd prefer to pay it themselves. You can't just not pay.. That's the same as people "just not" paying their tax.

I did read you're original post and it doesn't make sense to say everyone will pay, and that's why I said that children and the unemployed wont pay.

Take a couple who are unemployed with 2 children and tell them "Every 3 months we're going to deduct €40 from your income." It will not work!

Sykk

smash wrote: »

Take a couple who are unemployed with 2 children and tell them "Every 3 months we're going to deduct €40 from your income." It will not work!

Including children's allowance: €150 per child per month: €300
Social welfare: €188x2 by four weeks: €1504

€1804 times three months: €5412.

40 euro would be devastating.

This isn't inclusive of what other benefits they can claim.

You're just being arrogant, as I said. Nothing I say, no amount of facts or proof is going to make you change your opinion. Or accept mine.

smash

€1,504 would barely cover a lot of mortgages though. I'm not being arrogant, I'm being realistic.

Sykk

smash wrote: »

€1,504 would barely cover a lot of mortgages though. I'm not being arrogant, I'm being realistic.

Rent allowance and mortgage relief. Jesus Christ.

smash

Sykk wrote: »

Rent allowance and mortgage relief. Jesus Christ.

Mortgage relief is hardly anything and you don't get rent allowance if you own the house.

So anyway, apart from wanting 100% free healthcare for everyone (even though it's not free because you still pay for it) he's another suggestion you had:

Sykk wrote:

I work full time and I'm currently doing a degree. Because I'm working I'm not eligible for a grant so the fees are on me. Despite coming out with little more than people on welfare after tax, rent, living expenses have been paid.

Your problem really, a lot of people in this position. In fact there's a lot who can't afford to go back to college but would love to. Lucky for you, you can afford it but you still want someone else to pay for it so you have more disposable income.

I'll revert back to my statement about Irish people and their sense of entitlement.

Sykk

:rolleyes:

Where To

I hadn't been to a doctor for over fifteen years until I started reading this thread. . . . .

Thanks OP :mad:

orourkeda

What if people who obtain the grant gain employment abroad?

Besides isnt paying it back reliant on gaining employment at the end of theri studies

Sykk

orourkeda wrote: »

What if people who obtain the grant gain employment abroad?

Besides isnt paying it back reliant on gaining employment at the end of theri studies

Well you'd have 15-20 years to pay it back.. I don't know someone who's been unemployed for 20 years. (Actually I do, but these same people don't attend university) Do you?

If they gain employment abroad then I'd assume it's just like taking a loan from the bank of Ireland and moving country.. You pay it back once chased or you don't. That's up to you.

SuperGrover

smash wrote: »

No it's not. Only times I've been to the doctor is if I'm very bad, otherwise I'll save my money. But when I have been, I've seen people in there with colds, sore arms and general bs excuses to be there, and they're mostly medical card holders. If it's free, then people will use the service at will.

How do you know?