Budget in December

Ardennes1944

AFAIK theres another budget coming up soon enough sometime in December. if my memory serves me correctly i read on the times about 3-4months ago that the tax system will be 'amended' so that cars under 2litre will have their tax rates go up €50 and cars over 2litre will increase by €100. this is the old system of course. its also more than likely that fuel will increase across the board, again.
i dont necessarily want a thread bitching about the budget i would just like confirmation if anything along the lines ive mentioned is true.
the next car i get will more than likely be kinda high powered so thats my reason for asking.

Thanks guys.

challengemaster

The only real confirmation you'll get is budget day tbh... until then, bend over and hope for the best

EPM

To be honest, relatively speaking the figures mentioned are small increases in motor tax. They would make little difference to most peoples decision to buy a bigger engined car IMO.

No one knows for sure what will happen, but as the low emission tax take is the cause of a reduced tax take I can see that being the main target.

TestTransmission

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

the next car i get will more than likely be kinda high powered so thats my reason for asking.

If you want high powered, you'll get it anyway

What you thinking of anyway?

challengemaster

TestTransmission wrote: »

If you want high powered, you'll get it anyway

What you thinking of anyway?

A 1.9 alfa or a 520 :P when he said kinda, he meant it

Vertakill

EPM wrote: »

To be honest, relatively speaking the figures mentioned are small increases in motor tax. They would make little difference to most peoples decision to buy a bigger engined car IMO.

No one knows for sure what will happen, but as the low emission tax take is the cause of a reduced tax take I can see that being the main target.

Well, it kinda would I think.

My last car was €1566 and my current car is €1566. It's already too much without going up to €1666 - which is approaching pure lunacy for road tax imo.

It won't change my mind about the current car I'm in but if I were driving something sub 2.0 and for my next car I was keen on something 3+ litre, I'd be thinking twice.

MugMugs

Does it really matter ?

We'll just bend over and take it anyway.

Gilmore came out there a few weeks ago and said "We have to make some harsh and drastic changes in the next budget and some hard decisions but we are just going to get on with it" or something along those lines.

This to me says "We intend on raping you more and more and we are confident that being the good little lap dogs you will do what you're told"

Co2 can expect a massive kick up the backside. Hence me taxing my motor for 12 months for the first time in a long time.

Can't see the old system being tapped too much but you never know.

Fuel will defnitely be hit and I can imagine with this new fascination of driving a Diesel 5km a day that Diesel will be the main target.

Can also forsee an increase on Insurance levys coming.

But as already said, just wait for December and don't revolt against it.... There's no porint.... Nobody will support you.

EPM

Vertakill wrote: »

Well, it kinda would I think.

My last car was €1566 and my current car is €1566. It's already too much without going up to €1666 - which is approaching pure lunacy for road tax imo.

It won't change my mind about the current car I'm in but if I were driving something sub 2.0 and for my next car I was keen on something 3+ litre, I'd be thinking twice.

I know it's an insane amount of money but if €100 extra on a car that already has close on €1600 motor tax anyway is a deciding factor then maybe people should be looking elsewhere.

Ardennes1944

the biggest reason for wanting to know the tax rate hike is for something like a 520, if it was gonna go up to 914 to tax it, it really would put me off going over 2litre. it would be typical of this country to reverse, or at least, half return to the old tax rates for the new system.

TT, i have a big thread on it from about a week ago but basically its wide open.
accord http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2569465
159 http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2468642
520i http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2549605
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2566685
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2566730
dc5
astra cdti http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2395630
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2533716
or turbo http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/2559779

some are just examples, not the best i could find.
id link a dc5 but there really arent any nice ones around.


back on topic!

Vertakill

EPM wrote: »

I know it's an insane amount of money but if €100 extra on a car that already has close on €1600 motor tax anyway is a deciding factor then maybe people should be looking elsewhere.

But that's what I'm saying, people WILL start to look elsewhere if they start raising the already extortionate tax. It's too high as it is. Raising it more is just taking the p!ss.

I've paid 1566 for the last 4 years... I just about tolerate it because I love the cars I've been driving.
But there is a point where you have to stand back and think... what the hell am I doing paying this amount to just be legal on our piece of sh!t roads?

As I said, it won't change my mind about my situation, but I know it will for some potential owners.

It could turn out like the cigarette scenario, people were like "Oh I'll just quit smoking if they go up to a fiver a pack.... or if they go up to €6... or €7... or €8". (PS. I don't smoke!:))

challengemaster

Well when you consider that someone with the same car is paying $45 in the US each year... you really start to wonder

MugMugs

Vertakill wrote: »

It could turn out like the cigarette scenario, people were like "Oh I'll just quit smoking if they go up to a fiver a pack.... or if they go up to €6... or €7... or €8". (PS. I don't smoke!:))

Or just smoke rollies like you're back in College.

What EPM means is that a 100 quid on top of your current Road Tax is 6%

Is 6% a massive raise in the grand scheme of things ?

robbie_998

challengemaster wrote: »

Well when you consider that someone with the same car is paying $45 in the US each year... you really start to wonder

lets not forget the insurance over there either !

i used to work with a guy from the US and he had trans ams, firebirds, cehvy's with massive engines and all sorts and he could insure them all for under $1000 on the same policy

and he was telling me if he ever wanted to take them to ireland he could ring the insurance company and tell them he wants world wide cover and it would only cost $10 more on his policy !

but anyway thats for another day :P


tax here... its a bit meh alright but nothing we can do about it really.

i thought a while back it was based on emissions but then i saw the nissan leaf and that has tax of about €100 or so ? (correct me if im wrong please)

or cars 08 and up or something like that ?

i dunno... if you ask me i'd say their just pulling figures out of their arses !

Ardennes1944

Ardennes1944 wrote: »

AFAIK theres another budget coming up soon enough sometime in December. if my memory serves me correctly i read on the times about 3-4months ago that the tax system will be 'amended' so that cars under 2litre will have their tax rates go up €50 and cars over 2litre will increase by €100. ..............

Yeah, that rings a bell and the CO2 rates iirc were all being increased by €100 ish too.

Vertakill

MugMugs wrote: »

Or just smoke rollies like you're back in College.

What EPM means is that a 100 quid on top of your current Road Tax is 6%

Is 6% a massive raise in the grand scheme of things ?

Percentage-wise, 6% is not a lot. But most people won't pay their €1566 all in one go, they'll pay it quarterly etc... so that €100/6% goes up.
Also, once they start raising the tax they may not want to stop there.

It's too high as it is so I don't see why we should accept a rise...

They're already absolutely riding the minority of people with big engines, which will only discourage people from buying big engines, which in turn will bring in less money for the government.

If they left the big engines alone and loaded the lower CC engines (the vast majority), then they'd bring in more money but they'd also disincentivize lower CC engines which would encourage people to make the stretch into higher tax brackets... which, again, would bring in more money.

I just cannot understand why the government want to continually penalise big engines. It's clearly not an environmental thing at all and if it's strictly for money, they're going about it all wrong.

Gumbo

MugMugs wrote: »

Is 6% a massive raise in the grand scheme of things ?

Yes it is!
Added together with pay cuts, tax increases, insurance increases, its actually alot more than 6% increase.

A good way to compare it is to wprk it out as a percentage figure of your take home pay, and then adjust it for increases etc!

The way the government folk view this is that anyone who can shell out €1566 to tax their car can find an extra €100. They don't really see that lots of €1566/annum cars to tax are going to an early grave as folks can't afford to tax them, a €1666/annum new high rate will just make more see the scrapyard early.

The folks who had them will just drive smaller cc old cars instead so no one gains, everyone loses.

With the universal social charge, increasing mortgages etc many folks in relatively well paid jobs have seen their take home pay drop by €500/month in recent years, and they are the folk who haven't endured actual pay cuts and reduced hours, €100 extra to tax the car is €100 not spent in the pub, restaurants etc.

Of course, when in a hole one must try and get out of it, no doubt Micheal Martin has lots of better ideas than FG and Labour :pac:

And of course the property tax and water rates etc are on the way too.

I thought we would have similar motor tax rates to the UK, boy was i wrong.

For pre 2001 UK cars it costs £130 for 1549cc and just £215 over 1549cc. :mad:

And you can drive nearly the length of the country without going through a toll bridge.

I pay €860 a year on my 2.3, nearly the same as my insurance costs, disgrace!

Jimmy Bottlehead

This in itself is further proof that as soon as my missus graduates as a nurse, we're pissing off up North over the border where the government don't **** you QUITE as badly as down here.

Voodoomelon

Was a glorious UK reg CL600 sitting outside my work the other day. Took a glance at the disc, £240. :mad:

Anan1

Vertakill wrote: »

But that's what I'm saying, people WILL start to look elsewhere if they start raising the already extortionate tax. It's too high as it is. Raising it more is just taking the p!ss.

I've paid 1566 for the last 4 years... I just about tolerate it because I love the cars I've been driving.
But there is a point where you have to stand back and think... what the hell am I doing paying this amount to just be legal on our piece of sh!t roads?

As I said, it won't change my mind about my situation, but I know it will for some potential owners.

Of course if that does happen then luxobarges will become cheaper again for the rest of us.

mcwhirter

If they increase the car tax, then will they stop the loophole? More and more will say car is off road etc.

barura

100eur is, if you drink, half a pint less each weekend.

Or a 2l bottle of cola.

Or 12hrs work.

It's not that bad. If you have a problem with it, why complain and do nothing about it? You could buy a newer car in the new taxing system to get around this tax increase. They're trying to get people to buy newer cars and from 08 onwards, you can make savings on the new system over the cost of tax in a few years as well as driving what is (probably) a newer, safer car.

If you drive for pleasure, than what is the difference in 50 or 100euro?

And finally, if you have a problem with running a car, then just stop running one. Public transport is quite reasonable comparably if you take cost etc. into account. If you need to run a car, then you'll find a way, just as with any other necessity.

Patser

I think that car-wise the Govt is really on a knife edge and have to thread very carefully.

With fuel costs already at a record high, there is evidence that car use has dropped off dramatically. So put more duty on fuel and you can expect a further drop in use, therefore less revenue being raised. (source: http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/news/car-use-down-july-2011.html )

With Tolls, you only have to look at the debacle that is the M3 and Limerick tunnel where the high tolls have lead to such avoidance that it's actually costing the Govt €500,000 a month in compensation to the Toll operators. So raise more tolls and watch avoidance go up, so that you actually don't get a financial benefit. (source: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2011/0719/1224300947753.html )

And as for Motor tax, forgetting about how angry Motorists are after the last 2 winters to suddenly realise the nifty FF trick of renaming Road Tax Motor tax - so it now has nothing to do with road maintenance. The much bigger problems are that Motor tax evasion is already running at roughly 10% (http://www.independent.ie/national-news/onein10-drivers-refusing-to-pay-for-motor-tax-2667077.html )and also that the Green Party's legacy of cheap to tax big diesels (classic example the BMW 520d for €156 odd a year) would mean people increasingly jumping to these ludicrously low levels. Rememver these new rates came in in 2008, so those cars will be hitting 4 years old next year and dropping to affordable 2nd hand prices.

So tricky to see where they plan to really raise revenue, unless they are totally insulated to the realities out there..............oh!:o

Patser

Double post sorry

Eric Cartman

i really hope they add 50-100 euro to bands A&B of the co2 system , those people deserve to pay more

mcwhirter

barura wrote: »

100eur is, if you drink, half a pint less each weekend.

Or a 2l bottle of cola.

Or 12hrs work.

It's not that bad. If you have a problem with it, why complain and do nothing about it? You could buy a newer car in the new taxing system to get around this tax increase. They're trying to get people to buy newer cars and from 08 onwards, you can make savings on the new system over the cost of tax in a few years as well as driving what is (probably) a newer, safer car.

If you drive for pleasure, than what is the difference in 50 or 100euro?

And finally, if you have a problem with running a car, then just stop running one. Public transport is quite reasonable comparably if you take cost etc. into account. If you need to run a car, then you'll find a way, just as with any other necessity.

Only if you can afford to buy newer car and as for public transport, okay if you live near a big city.

You are talking long term to recuperate the cost of a new car over a one based on engine size.

barura

barura wrote: »

..........They're trying to get people to buy newer cars ..........

Nope, they are trying to get people to buy NEW cars.
And the increase in motor tax on newer cars will be a lot more than 6%.

barura

RoverJames wrote: »

Nope, they are trying to get people to buy NEW cars.
And the increase in motor tax on newer cars will be a lot more than 6%.

Ain't the government trying to keep our carbon footprint down? Newer cars are designed to have less emissions? Then again, they seem to be driving people away from cars as well.

Ah well!

TestTransmission

Eric Cartman wrote: »

i really hope they add 50-100 euro to bands A&B of the co2 system , those people deserve to pay more

How much is your tax a year?

MugMugs

kceire wrote: »

Yes it is!
Added together with pay cuts, tax increases, insurance increases, its actually alot more than 6% increase.

A good way to compare it is to wprk it out as a percentage figure of your take home pay, and then adjust it for increases etc!

It's really not.

6% is tiny.

If you're paying 1566 anyway, Whats another tonne ??

Eric Cartman

TestTransmission wrote: »

How much is your tax a year?

288 , its the band A & B cars causing the defecit and those people are spending less on fuel so can afford to make up the balance

TestTransmission

Eric Cartman wrote: »

288

Here's hoping they raise commerical tax so while they're at it

Eric Cartman

TestTransmission wrote: »

Here's hoping they raise commerical tax so while they're at it

to be fair ive long expected them to, anything up to 400 a year before id really start complaining , thats a fair amount of tax for what I drive

MugMugs

Eric Cartman wrote: »

288 , its the band A & B cars causing the defecit and those people are spending less on fuel so can afford to make up the balance

You're actually right.

I agree

Leave C alone.

Eric Cartman

MugMugs wrote: »

You're actually right.

I agree

Leave C alone.

c is a fair amount of tax, bring band G down to 1300 euro , put A up to 180 and B to 250 , still relatively low tax but back in line with roughly where it was

mcwhirter

Eric Cartman wrote: »

288 , its the band A & B cars causing the defecit and those people are spending less on fuel so can afford to make up the balance

If thats the case, then it would be fairer to put the taxi on the fuel rather than the motor tax.

Eric Cartman

mcwhirter wrote: »

If thats the case, then it would be fairer to put the taxi on the fuel rather than the motor tax.

only if you change the VAT rate on fuel , businesses shouldnt suffer for the essential travel that has to be made, we have low commercial tax to compensate at the moment but a fuel tax hike would be horrible

MugMugs

mcwhirter wrote: »

If thats the case, then it would be fairer to put the taxi on the fuel rather than the motor tax.

But sure our fuel is already taxed to the hilt and due to be again. Remove the annual tax and DUTY fuel more ??? Why bother when you can just Duty fuel as much as you please and STILL charge Motor Tax ?

Big Nasty

Most logical thing would be to hit diesel, aka fuel of the devil!

The low tax and fuel costs for low emission diesel cars has kinda back fired (excuse pun) on the government. In the UK diesel is about 5p / liter more expensive than petrol while here it's the other way around.

Ardennes1944

MugMugs wrote: »

It's really not.

6% is tiny.

If you're paying 1566 anyway, Whats another tonne ??

That's what the government are hoping for though. That we'll forget about nearly every other tax etc and only focus on each new one individually. Sure 6% is small but it's another apple in an orchard of taxes!

Eric Cartman

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Most logical thing would be to hit diesel, aka fuel of the devil!

The low tax and fuel costs for low emission diesel cars has kinda back fired (excuse pun) on the government. In the UK diesel is about 5p / liter more expensive than petrol while here it's the other way around.

if they give me the vat back on petrol and let me buy an F250 im game for this

Big Nasty

Eric Cartman wrote: »

if they give me the vat back on petrol and let me buy an F250 im game for this

F-550 6.8 V10 for the win dude!

I know a chap down in Cork with a Dodge Ram has a Viper engine in it - mental piece of machinery!

challengemaster

Vertakill wrote: »

I just cannot understand why the government want to continually penalise big engines. It's clearly not an environmental thing at all and if it's strictly for money, they're going about it all wrong.

To be completely honest, I honestly believe the government are in some way responsible for a lot of road accidents. Most accidents occur because of cars being on the wrong side of the road - probably overtaking. People here are essentially forced to buy ****ty underpowered cars because of the low tax attached to them, meaning much longer overtaking times, which certainly isn't safe.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Was a glorious UK reg CL600 sitting outside my work the other day. Took a glance at the disc, £240. :mad:

Saw a brand new M3 a month or two ago when I was over, same thing, £240 tax...

barura wrote: »

100eur is, if you drink, half a pint less each weekend.

Or a 2l bottle of cola.

Or 12hrs work.

Where do you buy your 2L of coke... I know it's expensive but I've never had to pay €100/bottle :pac:

It's not that bad. If you have a problem with it, why complain and do nothing about it? You could buy a newer car in the new taxing system to get around this tax increase.

Yes, because life is just that simple and everyone in Ireland during a recession has the money to throw at a new car to dodge some stupid motor tax bands that shouldn't cost that much in the first place.

And finally, if you have a problem with running a car, then just stop running one. Public transport is quite reasonable comparably if you take cost etc. into account. If you need to run a car, then you'll find a way, just as with any other necessity.

You must be fecking joking. A train costs something like €58 for any reasonable length trip. The bus service isn't exactly great or cheap either, and not everyone lives somewhere that public transport is an option.

Dig your head out of the sand for a few seconds and take a proper look around you

Gumbo

MugMugs wrote: »

It's really not.

6% is tiny.

If you're paying 1566 anyway, Whats another tonne ??

It really is. 6% of what is tiny?
As i said, 6% of the current payment, but not a 6% increase when you take every other tax hike into account.

100e is still a 100e and is an outragious (sp) increase, and borderline criminal.
if my take home is 100e per week and 6% of that is motor tax, then the budget introduces further taxes so my take home drops to 90e per week, but now the motor tax increase is gone from 6e to 7e, now im spending 7 from 80 instead of 6 from 100.

Ok, the above example isint great, but then again, this isint the accountancy forum

PS - i dont have a car in the top rate btw.

people say sure its only 100e, but added to everything else, its over 100e that will not be spent in the economy or has to be got from somewhere, and imo will further lead to tax fraud.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

only if you change the VAT rate on fuel , businesses shouldnt suffer for the essential travel that has to be made, we have low commercial tax to compensate at the moment but a fuel tax hike would be horrible

PAYE workers have essential travel too, they have to get to work.
How many people do you employ out of interest?

sean1141

if the diesel gets a big hike it will put a lot of hauliers out of business. we depend a lot on trucks in this country as there is very little other ways of transporting goods

Eric Cartman

RoverJames wrote: »

PAYE workers have essential travel too, they have to get to work.
How many people do you employ out of interest?

im well aware of that, but if there has to be a fuel tax , its the lesser of 2 evils to leave businesses alone, if you hit them too everyone loses when deliveries and products in the shops become more expensive

Voodoomelon

Something I don't understand is the top band of €2100 for C02 based cars.
Its just an insane amount of money and I know a handful of people who can afford to pay it, along with the price of that kind of new car, but who refuse to. Even if you're minted, its hard to justify that ludicrous amount of money to simply put a car on the road.

I think the government really is loosing money in even that band by pricing it so high. Who's going to buy any of these kinds of cards when they're 5-6 years old, worth about €10-€15k and have to pay over €2k a year in tax? How many people are opting for larger, cheaper diesel cars and paying less than half that amount of tax as a result?

€2100 is crazy.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

im well aware of that, but if there has to be a fuel tax , its the lesser of 2 evils to leave businesses alone, if you hit them too everyone loses when deliveries and products in the shops become more expensive

So if there is a fuel tax that doesn't effect businesses (ie diesel users by your logic) then just the folks using petrol get hit. But if we go and tax diesel too everyone gets hit, the burden is shared across all consumers in the country.

You reckon the lesser of two evils to let businesses alone?

Voodoomelon

Voodoomelon wrote: »

........

€2100 is crazy.

The greens, aka vegetables.