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The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)
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The Bible recounts the deeds of many fallible men ...
As do the Sun and the Daily Star...David was a King and yet he was an aduterer ... and a murderer. Moses was a prophet and a leader of Israel ... yet he was self-willed and headstrong ... and the Bible presents him 'warts and all'
Yes, God has shown Himself to be a terrible personnel manager by his choice of representatives here on earth. He consistently favours evil men and women, Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Saul, David, Lot's rapist/incestuous daughters, Paul (inventor of Christianity) and even Mary, she willingly submitted her son to a life of suffering. The list is endless.
As I have said before, if the roles of God and Satan were reversed then the bible would make far more sense.He broke the tablets of stone upon which the Ten Commandments were written by God in a fit of rage when he came and found the Israelites adoring a golden calf idol ...
What God has put together let no man put asunder.
Anyway, what did God have against the Egyptians? Weren't they 'sons of Adam' and 'daughters of Eve' too? How come God is okay with me expressing my free-will but not okay with the Egyptians expressing their free-will? The Romans, Christians and Muslims were perfectly free to express their will, oppressing, persecuting and displacing the Jews from that land which God has given to them but no staffs have turned into serpents, no plagues or murder of the first-born of an entire generation, nothing.
What did God have against the Egyptians that He doesn't have against the Christian nations of the world?
Think about it, God is guilty of 'match-fixing' and 'team nobbling'. A bunch of aggressive Jews attack Egypt for no reason, lose the fight and are taken prisoner.
God must have lost a large bet on that outcome and so directly interfered in matters of men.
The strange thing is that only Moses and the Egyptians actually directly experienced God. Even as the rescued Jews worshipped the false idol, God stayed quiet. It was Moses who was frustrated with his people, not God.
All of this is according to Moses of course. Moses indicates that God operates a double standard.and the Ten Commandments weren't sufficient for him ... he had to add his own detailed 'control freak' laws ... and their all too Human punishments ... that were shown up for the hypocracy that they represented by Jesus Christ ... who said it like it was (and is) in regard to laws and lawmakers. Jesus said that lawmakers make heavy (legal) burdens for (ordinary) men to carry... but they lift not a finger to help !!!
And Moses becomes less and less godly.
The human author of the bible becomes less and less credible.Moses may have been the first fallible lawmaker ... but he certainly wasn't the last!!!:)
Not the first either. The Egyptians had civil law millenia befor Moses' birth.
In any case, by your own logic and in your own words, the bible is not a trustworthy source since even Moses failed to represent God as God willed him to.
And in that respect, you are quite correct.
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Hey K !!!:DHey JC
The Bible is indeed the most fascinating book that was ever written.Have to say I find this all rather fascinating.
It's true that Jacob wrestled with a man ... and Jacob (erroneously) claimed he was God ... but it was possibly an angel ... as his adversary never identified himself ... and he couldn't see him, as it was night.So according to your good-self the Bible is completely right, open to interpretation and was written by people with a fertile imagination?
For example:
Gen 32:30 “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.”
John 1:18 states, “No man hath seen God at any time”
Both are in the Bible, plain as day. Yet you have stated that only John’s account is correct, that Jacob was prone to flights of literary fancy. So that begs the question, how much else is pure imagination? And who decides?
... so, there is no contradiction between Gen 32:30 and John 1:18 ... you just need to read them carefully as well as the surrounding verses that explains the context of both verses.:)
The context of Gen 22:1 was God's test of Abraham ... and it was only a test as He prevented Abraham from sacrificing Isaac.James 1:13 “For God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man.”
Gen 22:1 “And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham”
And again, your interpretation is that God only test, not tempts with evil. But it is written that he tempts. Your interpretation versus what is written?
It was a test ... to see whether Abraham was obedient to God to the point of sacrificing his son. It wasn't a temptation to do evil ... such as Satan does - and rejoices in, when the evil act is committed.And then we have the definition of evil to contend with. What is it? “Thou shall not Kill” is one of the commandments set out by God. Is to break Gods word evil? Yet it is written that God ordered Abraham to kill his own child. Ok, he didn’t have to go through with it. But if killing is a sin, why would God order someone to kill? Consistency?
Ishmael was a son conceived with Sarah's maidservant Hagar ... and thus wasn't an Israelite, as jewish ancestry is determined via the maternal line."Now it came about after these things, that God tested Abraham, and said to him, Abraham!' And he said, 'Here I am.' 2 And He said, 'Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I will tell you”
And that is the only problem with that piece, because we know that Abraham had another son, Ishmael, who was a teenager at the time. So did God get it wrong? Or was it just a slip of the tongue?
Isaac was the only Israelite son that Abraham had .. and he is the common ancestor of all Israelite Jews today.
Ishmael is the common ancestor of todays Palestinian people ... quite ironic and sad, when we see what is happening between Israel and Palestine today ... as they are all Abraham's children.
The words of the Bible are true ... and because of this, they present a 'warts and all' account of historical events.The problem is that the Bible was written by many different people, years apart, many of whom didn’t actually witness what happened. That’s why there is no consistency. And with the best of intentions, man gets things wrong, man has, as you have already said, a fertile imagination.
Again your interpretation of something that was written, then corrected, but left in the Bible.
Jacobs fertile imagination ... has nothing to do with the true account of his wrestling match ... written by the author of Genesis.
The Roman Catholic Church was as wrong about the Bible as they were about the Universe ... on the geocentric issue.Yes, they are turns of phrase today, but the Church was very firm on what was the truth back in the 1600’s.
You see back then it was absolutely unthinkable that a mere member of the public could interpret the Bible. But Galileo said publicly that the interpreters of the Bible could make mistakes, and that it was a mistake to assume that the Bible had to be taken literally. Heresy and Inquisition followed.
And to know how serious it was to question anything in the Bible check out what happened to poor Giordano Bruno.
A plain reading of the Bible doesn't say anything about the astronomical position of the Earth ... but the fact that it is a sphere is confirmed in Is 40:22However Galileo was found innocent the first time. Course when he chose to write a book on the movement of the Earth and the stars, he was threatened with torture, until he publicly confessed that he had been wrong to say that the Earth moved around the Sun. And he was confined to house arrest until his death.
So here is the problem, you say that in this case the Bible isn’t to be taken literally, that its clearly established that the Earth is round and that it travels through space. However the Church had a very different view up until someone popped a large camera up into space and said “look, Galileo was right”.
Is 40:22
It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
A plain reading is the correct approach.So again it has to be asked, who gets to decide when and where the Bible is wrong? And at what point will people stop taking it so literally? At what point do people stop believing 2000 year old writings of men with fertile imaginations?
We do indeed have science for that ... Creation Science.:DI think I’m pretty ok on my Biblical knowledge thanks. I can see it for what it is. I understand where it came from. Its historical importance, and how it can be used in modern context.
However I don’t depend on it to explain the origins of the world and how life came into being. We have science for that.0 -
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... but Rupert Murdock isn't God!!!:DAs do the Sun and the Daily Star...
Perhaps the explanation is that God didn't have any better people to choose from ... and everybody else, at the time was worse!!!:eek:Yes, God has shown Himself to be a terrible personnel manager by his choice of representatives here on earth. He consistently favours evil men and women, Abraham, Moses, Samuel, Saul, David, Lot's rapist/incestuous daughters, Paul (inventor of Christianity) .
Mary willingly submitted herself to God's will.and even Mary, she willingly submitted her son to a life of suffering. The list is endless
The suffering endured by Jesus was caused by the sin of Humanity ... including you and me!!!
It would only make sense to Satan ... who wants to be God.As I have said before, if the roles of God and Satan were reversed then the bible would make far more sense.
Good advice.What God has put together let no man put asunder.
God decided to give the Jews the Land of Israel ... for the ultimate production of the Saviour of the World ... and the Egyptians decided to defy God on this ... and they lost.Anyway, what did God have against the Egyptians? Weren't they 'sons of Adam' and 'daughters of Eve' too? How come God is okay with me expressing my free-will but not okay with the Egyptians expressing their free-will? The Romans, Christians and Muslims were perfectly free to express their will, oppressing, persecuting and displacing the Jews from that land which God has given to them but no staffs have turned into serpents, no plagues or murder of the first-born of an entire generation, nothing.
What did God have against the Egyptians that He doesn't have against the Christian nations of the world?
God has a sovereign will ... that He can choose to exercise, if He deems it necessary.Think about it, God is guilty of 'match-fixing' and 'team nobbling'. A bunch of aggressive Jews attack Egypt for no reason, lose the fight and are taken prisoner.
God must have lost a large bet on that outcome and so directly interfered in matters of men.
God operates a sovereign standard ... doing as He sees fit ... in accord with perfect love, perfect mercy and perfect justice.The strange thing is that only Moses and the Egyptians actually directly experienced God. Even as the rescued Jews worshipped the false idol, God stayed quiet. It was Moses who was frustrated with his people, not God.
All of this is according to Moses of course. Moses indicates that God operates a double standard.
Moses was a fallible Human, just like you and me ... but he wrote Genesis under the direct inspiration of God.And Moses becomes less and less godly.
The human author of the bible becomes less and less credible.
You are, of course, correct ... Moses was neither the first ... nor the last person to try and control his fellow man via law!!:)Not the first either. The Egyptians had civil law millenia befor Moses' birth.
It is trustworthy ... Moses promulgated the civil and ceremonial law ... and defined the punishments ... and this is true.In any case, by your own logic and in your own words, the bible is not a trustworthy source since even Moses failed to represent God as God willed him to.
And in that respect, you are quite correct.0 -
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Sigh. You. Just. Don't . Get. It.... so you think that smoke ... which irritates your eyes and lungs ... and can kill you, in very high concentrations, is somehow good for you ... and you need a scientist to tell you that it is bad???:):D
You need to listen to a 5-year old creationist, with excellent critical thinking skills ... to set you straight on this!!!!:):D
... they could also set you straight on the invalidity of Spontaneous Evolution, as well ... if you were to ask them.
.... mbeep ... mbeep!!!!:D
You're so full of it.0 -
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