The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

Delirium

MOD NOTE

Could posters please bring the thread back to the topic of discussion, 'The Bible, Creationism and Prophecy'.

I'm not sure what a posters child murdering someone has to do with creationism so back on topic please.

Thanks for your attention.

Safehands

hinault wrote: »

I didn't ask you if you agreed or disagreed with the death penalty.
I asked you if your child should be punished, if they committed murder.
So if you child committed murder, you'd want them to punished for the crime that they committed?

OK hinault, If my child committed murder, what I would WANT is to know why.
I would WANT to throw my arms around them and hug them.
I would WANT to know if I had somehow failed them as a parent.
I would WANT them to have a fair trial.
I would WANT them to be treated fairly, with respect.

I would, very reluctantly, accept that, if found guilty, they would go to jail and would probably stay there for 12 to 15 years. I would not WANT that, but that is what happens if you commit murder.

So no, I would not WANT my child punished.

I hope that answers your question.

Now, how is this relevent to God and the bible?

hinault

Safehands wrote: »

So no, I would not WANT my child punished.

It's clear that you don't love your child, despite your protestations.

It's also clear that you don't subscribe to basic justice and fairness either.
If you did you'd accept that your child committed murder, you'd accept that to conform to justice and fairness your child's guilt had to be balanced by justice.

I suspect that the only thing you might feel shame about is that your child got caught for the crime that they committed.

God loves everyone who has ever been created. God's love includes fairness and justice. God is Truth.

Getting back to Michael O'Brien's point, we can't define God. We only have insights in to God from the teachings of Jesus Christ.

smacl

hinault wrote: »

It's clear that you don't love your child

What a truly horrible thing to say, not to mention unfounded and un-Christian for that matter. Really??

Safehands

hinault wrote: »

It's clear that you don't love your child, despite your protestations.

Honestly, I have no idea how that is clear to you, no idea at all!

hinault wrote: »

It's also clear that you don't subscribe to basic justice and fairness either.
If you did you'd accept that your child committed murder, you'd accept that to conform to justice and fairness your child's guilt had to be balanced by justice.

Where in my reply can you glean that I don't subscribe to basic justice?

hinault wrote: »

I suspect that the only thing you might feel shame about is that your child got caught for the crime that they committed.

Why would you suspect that?

hinault wrote: »

God loves everyone who has ever been created. God's love includes fairness and justice.

If God's justice and love includes implementing the death penalty, including for his little children, then I have no time at all for that type of love and that type of justice. It is a perverted form of love and not just at all.

hinault

smacl wrote: »

What a truly horrible thing to say, not to mention unfounded and un-Christian for that matter. Really??

It's not horrible. It's the truth instead.

hinault

Safehands wrote: »

If God's justice and love includes implementing the death penalty, including for his little children, then I have no time at all for that type of love and that type of justice. It is a perverted form of love and not just at all.

More hubris from you.

Thankfully God's standards are far more fair than the standards you've advocated throughout this site.

PopePalpatine

hinault wrote: »

It's not horrible. It's the truth instead.

A "truth" you haven't bothered to back up. :rolleyes:

Delirium

hinault wrote: »

It's clear that you don't love your child, despite your protestations.

MOD NOTE

Please don't get personal with other posters.

Now could everyone please get back on topic?

Existence of God discussion is more suited to approprate super thread

Thanks for your attention.

Safehands

hinault wrote: »

More hubris from you.

Thankfully God's standards are far more fair than the standards you've advocated throughout this site.

Seriously hinault, in the Bible, the story of the flood, God kills everyone, including little babies and children. I ask you, how is that showing love, because I genuinely don't understand it.
If God is all powerful, why would he not just make the bad people good? Why would he have to kill them all?

hinault

Safehands wrote: »

Seriously hinault, in the Bible, the story of the flood, God kills everyone, including little babies and children.

Have you bothered to read the story of the Flood? If so, why do you deliberately ignore referring to the warnings given by God to man?
Genesis 6. Read it.

I'm mindful of Delirium's urging to return to the topic of the thread.

Safehands

hinault wrote: »

Have you bothered to read the story of the Flood? If so, why do you deliberately ignore referring to the warnings given by God to man?
Genesis 6. Read it.

I'm mindful of Delirium's urging to return to the topic of the thread.

Yes, so am I, but I think discussing the flood is right back on track.

hinault

Safehands wrote: »

Yes, so am I, but I think discussing the flood is right back on track.

As is your posting more half truths about lots of things throughout this site, including half truths about the account of the Flood.

I'm remain mindful of Delirium's urging to return to the topic of the thread

Safehands

hinault wrote: »

Have you bothered to read the story of the Flood? If so, why do you deliberately ignore referring to the warnings given by God to man?

The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.
"For I regret that I have made them" Do those sound like the words of a person who loves the people he made? He regrets making those people, not "I love those people".
No love there hinault!

Leroy42

Its Alternative Love

Safehands

Safehands wrote: »

The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.
"For I regret that I have made them" Do those sound like the words of a person who loves the people he made? He regrets making those people, not "I love those people".

Compare that to:
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me.
Corinthians 13:4-12

hinault

hinault wrote:

As is your posting more half truths about lots of things throughout this site, including half truths about the account of the Flood.

Safehands wrote: »

And God seeing that the wickedness of men was great on the earth, and that all the thought of their heart was bent upon evil at all times,
I

The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.
"For I regret that I have made them" Do those sound like the words of a person who loves the people he made? He regrets making those people, not "I love those people".
No love there hinault!

I've fixed the latest half truth that you posted by inserting the verse which you "forgot" to include - the bit in red colour changes the half truth that you posted.

So man was evil and his heart was bent on evil all of the time

Timberrrrrrrr

hinault wrote: »

I've fixed the latest half truth that you posted by inserting the verse which you "forgot" to include - the bit in red colour changes the half truth that you posted.

So man was evil and his heart was bent on evil all of the time

Even the unborn children?

Leroy42

hinault wrote: »

I've fixed the latest half truth that you posted by inserting the verse which you "forgot" to include - the bit in red colour changes the half truth that you posted.

So man was evil and his heart was bent on evil all of the time

So rather than try to work with them, to show them the error of their ways, he just murdered them?

Yet he leaves paedophiles walk around, seemed to have little problem with Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot.

Sin City

Safehands wrote: »

The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.
"For I regret that I have made them" Do those sound like the words of a person who loves the people he made? He regrets making those people, not "I love those people".
No love there hinault!

Does that mean that God had made a mistake ? That he doesnt know everything?

Safehands

hinault wrote: »

I've fixed the latest half truth that you posted by inserting the verse which you "forgot" to include - the bit in red colour changes the half truth that you posted.

So man was evil and his heart was bent on evil all of the time

So he executes the lot of them, without a trial.
Needles to say, God supports the death penalty, and extermination.

Timberrrrrrrr

Safehands wrote: »

So he executes the lot of them, without a trial.
Needles to say, God supports the death penalty, and extermination.

And abortion.

looksee

It was a serious design flaw on god's part and he really should have done a recall and fixed them, instead he sent them all to the scrap yard.

MrPudding

looksee wrote: »

It was a serious design flaw on god's part and he really should have done a recall and fixed them, instead he sent them all to the scrap yard.

Yeah. Even worse than the Ford Pinta episode. Seems like now, though, he is following Ford's example, not bothering to do anything and deal with the consequences on a case by case basis, as it is less effort and expense.

MrP

hinault

Safehands wrote: »

So he executes the lot of them, without a trial.
Needles to say, God supports the death penalty, and extermination.

They spiritually execute themselves by wilfully refusing to ignore the consequences of their behaviour.

And if God supported extermination, the slightest transgression by anyone, in any way, would incur instant extermination.

You, I and everyone else posting here, has received abundant mercy from God if that's the case.

J C

Absolam wrote: »

They might. Statistical impossibility is however a recognised term for a low probability event.

Quote:-

"A statistical impossibility is a probability that is so low as to not be worthy of mentioning. Sometimes it is quoted as 10^50[1] although the cutoff is inherently arbitrary. Although not truly impossible the probability is low enough so as to not bear mention in a rational, reasonable argument.

In some cases that arise in Gedanken experiments in thermodynamics, the probabilities can be approximately 10Avogadro's number, that is, 10^10^23, give or take a few billion orders of magnitude."

The Universal Probability Bound at 10^150 is another measure of a statistical impossibility.

NaFirinne

If God is real, doesn't that mean we live in a virtual world rather then they actual real world.

When you say that God kills - Well, it's not necessarily true is it.

I mean if we kill we kill without the ability to resurrect. However if God kills the physical person, there is still the spiritual part.

Thus can't god simply resurrect them if he chooses too.

I mean if you created a virtual world, and in that world you created an AI - then gave that AI a body.....then the AI abused their body....so you destroyed the Ai's body, however the AI itself is not destroyed.

I can still choose to create a new body for that AI. - So if God does indeed exists....he doesn't really kill anyone in this reality we are in.

However we do as we don't have the power to recreate them.

J C

looksee wrote: »

It was a serious design flaw on god's part and he really should have done a recall and fixed them, instead he sent them all to the scrap yard.

It was actually the most humane thing to do ... Mankind had become Irredeemably evil ... it was Hell on Earth before the Flood.

There comes a point when God draws the line ... the Flood was one such time ... and Armageddon will be another.

Leroy42

J C wrote: »

It was actually the most humane thing to do ... Mankind had become Irredeemably evil ... it was Hell on Earth before the Flood.

There comes a point when God draws the line ... the Flood was one such time ... and Armageddon will be another.

But how does that leave free-will?

Is it just freewill up to a point?

Safehands

hinault wrote: »

They spiritually execute themselves by wilfully refusing to ignore the consequences of their behaviour.

God decided to execute them all because they were bad, which some people may applaude. He did it again with Sodom and Gomorrah, when Noah's decendant's started to misbehave like their ancestors. So the Loving, Merciful God decided to do them in, not by water, this time but by fire. So the Message he was trying to get out seemed to be, don't misbehave or your loving, forgiving God may just get annoyed and show you how loving and forgiving he really is and make you spiritually execute yourself by some method dreamt up by him.
But these were arbitrary decisions by God, because it would appear that he was not fed up with other monstrous creations, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler, to mention a few, who were all allowed to live and kill millions. They were not 'spiritually executed'.
I wonder what criterea God uses, to choose who he will execute for being bad?

hinault wrote: »

And if God supported extermination, the slightest transgression by anyone, in any way, would incur instant extermination.

Not at all. He proved he arbitrarily supported it a few times.