The Bible, Creationism, and Prophecy (part 2)

Safehands

J C wrote: »

I do ... it was by a fiat act of God's Divine Will.

So tell me about the speed of light and stars which are billions of light years away.

J C

Safehands wrote: »

So tell me about the speed of light and stars which are billions of light years away.

Cosmic Inflation.

orubiru

J C wrote: »

I do ... it was by a fiat act of God's Divine Will.

Hahaha. Well, I don't think you can really be taken seriously then.

I assume you don't expect to be taken seriously?

orubiru

J C wrote: »

Cosmic Inflation.

Please provide links.

The more I read these threads the more convinced I am that people like yourself push people away from religion.

The smug "I have snappy answers to all your questions" act is a little tiresome.

I read about Creation and you've got all the fancy moves but no substance. Then I look into Evolution, Geology and Astrophysics... wow.

Any inquisitive mind can see right through what you are offering up.

J C

orubiru wrote: »

Hahaha. Well, I don't think you can really be taken seriously then.

I assume you don't expect to be taken seriously?

I take your atheistic beliefs seriously ... why won't you take my evidentially supported ideas seriously?

J C

orubiru wrote: »

I read about Creation and you've got all the fancy moves but no substance. Then I look into Evolution, Geology and Astrophysics... wow.

Stuff like this (from your fellow evolutionists) gives you a wow??

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=94519074&postcount=4311

J C

orubiru wrote: »

Please provide links.

The more I read these threads the more convinced I am that people like yourself push people away from religion.

The smug "I have snappy answers to all your questions" act is a little tiresome.

My snappy answers contrast dramatically with your lack of answers to my questions and cited quotes on abiogenesis.

Safehands

J C wrote: »

Cosmic Inflation.

Please elaborate! Two words which could mean anything. Are you afraid of embarassing yourdself JC.
Come on, tell us what you believe about astronomers seeing the Andromeda Galaxy which is over 2 million light-years away.

orubiru

J C wrote: »

I take your atheistic beliefs seriously ... why won't you take my evidentially supported ideas seriously?

I am sure it has already been explained to you several times that Atheism is not a belief.

Why not complete the set and tell me that "Evolution is just a Theory"?

Anyway, it is possible to understand Evolution and not be an Atheist.

Do you comprehend that Evolution is not an "Atheistic Belief?

Do you understand that if someone understands the Big Bang Theory and accepts the current estimates of the age of the Universe it does not mean that they are an Atheist?

orubiru

J C wrote: »

My snappy answers contrast dramatically with your lack of answers to my questions and cited quotes on abiogenesis.

I don't know much about Abiogenisis. I admit that.

I am I to understand that you are saying that settling for an unprovable, yet oh so snappy, answer is better than not knowing and continuing to look for an answer?

Creationist answers are not satisfactory so we are looking elsewhere. Maybe we will come round some day and say "Hey J C, you were right all along". Maybe not.

J C

orubiru wrote: »

I am sure it has already been explained to you several times that Atheism is not a belief.

Yes it is a belief ... like any other belief complete with its own worldview.

orubiru wrote: »

Why not complete the set and tell me that "Evolution is just a Theory"?

Evolution in the sense of Natural/Sexual Selection is a fact ... and in the sense of Pondkind to Mankind Evolution it is a myth.

orubiru wrote: »

Anyway, it is possible to understand Evolution and not be an Atheist.

Yes ... I understand evolution and I'm not an Atheist.

orubiru wrote: »

Do you comprehend that Evolution is not an "Atheistic Belief?

It's certainly used by Atheists to bolster their beliefs. Some even say that it makes them inellectually fulfilled Atheists.

orubiru wrote: »

Do you understand that if someone understands the Big Bang Theory and accepts the current estimates of the age of the Universe it does not mean that they are an Atheist?

Yes, many are not Atheists ... but they are confusing evidence for the Creation Acts of God and interpreting them as a big bang, whereby nothing blew up (which is a physical impossibility).
When they are actually seeing evidence for a big whisper when God Created everything out of nothing, by a sovereign act of His omipotent will.

J C

orubiru wrote: »

I don't know much about Abiogenisis. I admit that.

I am I to understand that you are saying that settling for an unprovable, yet oh so snappy, answer is better than not knowing and continuing to look for an answer?

Creationist answers are not satisfactory so we are looking elsewhere. Maybe we will come round some day and say "Hey J C, you were right all along". Maybe not.

OK you don't know much about abiogenesis ...
I know about both abiogenesis (and the paucity of evidence for its validity) ... and Creation Science which is making steady progress developing and testing hypotheses around the creation of the universe and everything therein.

orubiru

J C wrote: »

Yes it is a belief ... like any other belief complete with its own worldview.

Evolution in the sense of Natural/Sexual Selection is a fact ... and in the sense of Pondkind to Mankind Evolution it is a myth.

Yes ... I understand evolution and I'm not an Atheist.

It's certainly used by Atheists to bolster their beliefs. Some even say that it makes them inellectually fulfilled Atheists.

Yes, many are not Atheists ... but they are confusing evidence for the Creation Acts of God and interpreting them as a big bang, whereby nothing blew up (which is a physical impossibility).
When they are actually seeing evidence for a big whisper when God Created everything out of nothing, by a sovereign act of His omipotent will.

Describing the Big Bang as "whereby nothing blew up" destroys your credibility.

How can you seriously expect people to respect your views when things like "Atheism is a belief", "pondkind to mankind is a myth", "The Big Bang, whereby nothing blew up" and "a sovereign act of His omnipotent will" are things that you try to pass of as valid points or knowledge?

I guess we should be grateful that you are not teaching children this stuff. If you are then shame on you.

Sometimes I fear that engaging in this kind of conversation drives people like yourself deeper into your delusion.

One last time, Atheism is NOT a belief or faith based belief system. Why can't you understand that?

I will admit that we do not know about Abiogenesis but we cannot deny that Evolution is a fact.

orubiru

J C wrote: »

OK you don't know much about abiogenesis ...
I know about both abiogenesis (and the paucity of evidence for its validity) ... and Creation Science which is making steady progress developing and testing hypotheses around the creation of the universe and everything therein.

Creation Science.

Please provide some links so that I may study that.

Gunney

orubiru wrote: »

One last time, Atheism is NOT a belief or faith based belief system. Why can't you understand that?

Does holding an intellectual position for which there is no evidence not imply faith ?

orubiru

Gunney wrote: »

Does holding an intellectual position for which there is no evidence not imply faith ?

I don't have faith that there is no evidence of God. There is no evidence of God. Simple.

Gunney

orubiru wrote: »

I don't have faith that there is no evidence of God.

do you understand what a double negative is?

orubiru

Gunney wrote: »

do you understand what a double negative is?

Yes. Sorry.

I have no faith that God exists because there is no evidence that God exists.

Do I have faith that God does not exist? No. That position is not faith based because there is no eveidence that God exists.

Please try to understand this. If you cannot then please explain why you do not understand and I will try my best.

In short, it requires no faith to be an Atheist because it is not a faith based position. It is a lack of faith.

AGAIN. Atheism is a lack of faith.

AGAIN. Atheism is a lack of belief.

Lack of belief does not equal belief. Nothing is not Something. Lack of faith does not equal faith.

If you have one Euro and I have zero Euros you would not say "Ha! But you do have SOME Euros see! You have ZERO Euros and Zero is a number so you DO have an amount of Euros! Zero Euros".

No. That would be silly. Don't be silly.

Gunney

orubiru wrote: »

Yes. Sorry.

Were you silly?

orubiru wrote: »

I have no faith that God exists because there is no evidence that God exists.

There are His works - the Universe, the Earth, Life on Earth. Do you have alternative evidence for how these things came to be. Reproduceable, repeatable, testable evidence?

orubiru wrote: »

Do I have faith that God does not exist? No. That position is not faith based because there is no eveidence that God exists.

There is His Son, Jesus Christ.

orubiru wrote: »

Please try to understand this. If you cannot then please explain why you do not understand and I will try my best.


In short, it requires no faith to be an Atheist because it is not a faith based position. It is a lack of faith.

AGAIN. Atheism is a lack of faith.

AGAIN. Atheism is a lack of belief.

Lack of belief does not equal belief. Nothing is not Something. Lack of faith does not equal faith.

Brainwashing involved the same thing being repeated over and over again untill the subject believes that they are being told. You seem to believe what you are repeating over and over again.

I on the other hand do not. My dictionary describes atheism as a dis-belief. A dis-belief is not a lack of belief.

Also, I noticed these being gone over previously on this thread where someone went through the origin of the word atheist from the Greek. A-theist - a belief in no god.

The brainwashing may work on the gullible so I'll stick with the dictionary and the etymology. It suits my intelligence better that stuff made up on the internet to help atheists get out of a hole of their own digging.

You believe there is no god and that's your faith.

orubiru wrote: »

If you have one Euro and I have zero Euros you would not say "Ha! But you do have SOME Euros see! You have ZERO Euros and Zero is a number so you DO have an amount of Euros! Zero Euros".

If you are using this as an analogy for God as against nothing them am I not the one with the money and you are the one with zero?

That is if I understand you right - you have a lack of euros and I have euros, yes?

Safehands

Gunney wrote: »

There are His works - the Universe, the Earth, Life on Earth. Do you have alternative evidence for how these things came to be. Reproduceable, repeatable, testable evidence?

Wow, That is rich, you looking for testable evidence. Are you having a laugh? Evidence??? You have some for your beliefs?

Gunney wrote: »

There is His Son, Jesus Christ.

Evidence? Come on!

Gunney wrote: »

Brainwashing involved the same thing being repeated over and over again untill the subject believes that they are being told.

Sounds very familiar.

Gunney wrote: »

You believe there is no god and that's your faith.

I don't believe in Unicorns. Does that mean I have a faith in Unicorns. Quite frankly, you are really talking nonsense.

Gunney

Safehands wrote: »

Wow, That is rich, you looking for testable evidence. Are you having a laugh? Evidence??? You have some for your beliefs?

What do you have for yours? Can you prove in a testable manner how life began? Or is it all assumption and speculation. We are talking about the real world here, not the existence of GOD - that's on a different thread.

If GOD is not responsible for the existence of the Universe and Life then what is? If all this is just an accidence of nature then why does nature restrict us, the most intelligent life on the planet, from understanding how we came to be here.

Gunney

Safehands wrote: »

I don't believe in Unicorns. Does that mean I have a faith in Unicorns.

No I don't think so. If this is a comprehension test if you don't believe in unicorns it means you do not have a faith in unicorns.

Safehands wrote: »

Quite frankly, you are really talking nonsense.

Saying you do have a faith in unicorns means you don't believe in unicorns is a better example of nonesense.

makes about as much sense as saying "I don't have faith that there is no evidence of God " (apologies to the poster who made this gaff - no offence intended )

Safehands

Gunney wrote: »

What do you have for yours? Can you prove in a testable manner how life began? Or is it all assumption and speculation. We are talking about the real world here, not the existence of GOD - that's on a different thread.

If GOD is not responsible for the existence of the Universe and Life then what is? If all this is just an accidence of nature then why does nature restrict us, the most intelligent life on the planet, from understanding how we came to be here.

All right, I am prepared to believe. I prostrate myself before you. Show me your proof that God created the world and I will honestly look at it, analyse it and if it makes any sense I will adopt it into my life. I cannot be more fair than that. After all, I do believe that if your beliefs were true it would be really wonderful. In fact, if you could offer me any believable proof, I would be a very, very happy man. So I now hand you the mike. Show me how you are right and I am wrong.

Gunney

Safehands wrote: »

All right, I am prepared to believe. I prostrate myself before you.

Please don't do that. I know it's mockery but there should be a limit, even for you,

Safehands wrote: »

Show me your proof that God created the world and I will honestly look at it, analyse it and if it makes any sense I will adopt it into my life. I cannot be more fair than that. After all, I do believe that if your beliefs were true it would be really wonderful. In fact, if you could offer me any believable proof, I would be a very, very happy man. So I now hand you the mike. Show me how you are right and I am wrong.

I don't have the proof that you are asking for. I have a faith based position which I expect to be tolerated without unreasonable antagonism.
Science cannot say how the universe came to exist or how life came to be. A man called Jesus who claimed to be GOD and got killed for it made a deep impression on me. Because of Him I believe.
I would suggest that instead of looking to someone like me for the proof you want you should study Jesus more and see if you believe Him.
You could also ask scientists for an alternative explanation for how the universe and life came to be and see which makes more sense.

I don't know that it would be wonderful to have the belief that you have but if you have undeniable evidence that the universe and life arose without GOD I would be very interested in reading it.

orubiru

Gunney wrote: »

Were you silly?



There are His works - the Universe, the Earth, Life on Earth. Do you have alternative evidence for how these things came to be. Reproduceable, repeatable, testable evidence?



There is His Son, Jesus Christ.



Brainwashing involved the same thing being repeated over and over again untill the subject believes that they are being told. You seem to believe what you are repeating over and over again.

I on the other hand do not. My dictionary describes atheism as a dis-belief. A dis-belief is not a lack of belief.

Also, I noticed these being gone over previously on this thread where someone went through the origin of the word atheist from the Greek. A-theist - a belief in no god.

The brainwashing may work on the gullible so I'll stick with the dictionary and the etymology. It suits my intelligence better that stuff made up on the internet to help atheists get out of a hole of their own digging.

You believe there is no god and that's your faith.



If you are using this as an analogy for God as against nothing them am I not the one with the money and you are the one with zero?

That is if I understand you right - you have a lack of euros and I have euros, yes?

So you don't understand that Atheism is a lack of belief in Gods. Well, at least we cleared that up.

Let's be honest here you didn't even try to understand.

"There is His Son, Jesus Christ". That's part of your evidence for God. Really?

If I understand you correctly, The Universe and The Earth and Life on Earth are "His Works"? That's your hypothesis? Were is your evidence?

Post a few links of some respected articles that show the proof of Gods existence, proof that Jesus was Gods Son and proof that The Earth is one of "His Works". Go ahead.

If you don't have the evidence then I will continue to lack belief. It's not disbelief because there is nothing to believe in.

Can you explain why you can't understand that a lack of belief is not a form of belief?

orubiru

Gunney wrote: »

What do you have for yours? Can you prove in a testable manner how life began? Or is it all assumption and speculation. We are talking about the real world here, not the existence of GOD - that's on a different thread.

If GOD is not responsible for the existence of the Universe and Life then what is? If all this is just an accidence of nature then why does nature restrict us, the most intelligent life on the planet, from understanding how we came to be here.

"If God is not responsible... then what is?" I do not know. Nobody knows.

There are many hypothesis for how life began. Do you have a hypothesis for how God began?

Seriously, who created God? If God IS responsible for all this then who or what is responsible for God?

Nature doesn't INTENTIONALLY restrict us. It's not like water thinks "well, I dont want humans in here" and so tries to drown us.

Have you ever studied evolution? Have you ever read up on Abiogenisis?

Gunney

orubiru wrote: »

So you don't understand that Atheism is a lack of belief in Gods. Well, at least we cleared that up.


Let's be honest here you didn't even try to understand.

If we are being honest one way to look at it is that I have a lack of faith in your definition of atheism and have substituted my own based on the original dictionary definition and etymology.

orubiru wrote: »

"There is His Son, Jesus Christ". That's part of your evidence for God. Really?

Part of it, yes. He said He is God and I believe Him.

orubiru wrote: »

If I understand you correctly, The Universe and The Earth and Life on Earth are "His Works"? That's your hypothesis? Were is your evidence?

I believe Him and what He has revealed through His other works and through the Holy Spirit.

orubiru wrote: »

Post a few links of some respected articles that show the proof of Gods existence, proof that Jesus was Gods Son and proof that The Earth is one of "His Works". Go ahead.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/religion-spirituality/Christianity/The-Bible.html

orubiru wrote: »

If you don't have the evidence then I will continue to lack belief. It's not disbelief because there is nothing to believe in.

You mean you will substitute your own definition for what you believe

orubiru wrote: »

Can you explain why you can't understand that a lack of belief is not a form of belief?

Because you call yourself an atheist and etymologically an atheist is someone who does not believe.

orubiru

Gunney wrote: »

If we are being honest one way to look at it is that I have a lack of faith in your definition of atheism and have substituted my own based on the original dictionary definition and etymology.



Part of it, yes. He said He is God and I believe Him.




I believe Him and what He has revealed through His other works and through the Holy Spirit.



http://www.dummies.com/how-to/religion-spirituality/Christianity/The-Bible.html



You mean you will substitute your own definition for what you believe



Because you call yourself an atheist and etymologically an atheist is someone who does not believe.

Someone who does not believe in what?

Gunney

GOD

orubiru

Gunney wrote: »

GOD

Do you believe in Zeus?

What's your take on Scientology?