Making Spirits at home

UnknownSpecies

Hey, just wondering does anybody have a guide on making spirits like vodka at home? I have seen on other threads about people doing it and they said it can taste quite neutral - which is what I'd like. Thanks for any replies!

BeerNut

Distilling without a licence is illegal.

Shiny

It wouldn't be worth the risk. People sometimes ask me would I ever consider making Poitín and I had always considered it until this happened recently. I genuinely had no idea distilling was so dangerous until I read more into it.

This isn't even getting started on the undesirable types of alcohol produced during the process which can kill people.

I have read that with a small still it could take 15 to 20 hours to produce a litre of alcohol. The cost of electricity/gas alone would be more than going down to the local shop to buy a superior spirit. I'm quite happy to stick to home brewing beer, wine and mead.

UnknownSpecies

Ah right, well that's that then ! I just saw a thread from a while back and somebody mentioned it, guess I'll keep on enjoying Tesco value! :pac:

n97 mini

You don't have to distil as
- you can make vodka by blending, or
- there are also some yeast which will ferment very high (not 40% tho)
- there are legal ways to increase the concentration of ethanol in a liquid

There are a lot of myths and half truths on the internet, so you're probably better talking to a real person who knows something about it.

As an aside methanol is dangerous and will cause damage to the optic nerve if consumed in sufficient quantities, but there are very few document cases of it causing blindness. In a still it's dealt with very easily as it evaporates first.

hardCopy

It's a pity it's illegal here as it seems quite popular in the states and stills look (relatively) easy to assemble.

Seems like a natural progression from home brewing.

rubadub

Shiny wrote: »

I genuinely had no idea distilling was so dangerous until I read more into it.

You should read a bit more so, it is actually quite safe, I can think of far more dangerous hobbies, like gardening and general DIY.

n97 mini wrote: »

- there are also some yeast which will ferment very high (not 40% tho)

They can go to 18% easily, some go to 23% now I think, just sugar water & nutrients. Then you can clear it with finings and carbon filter it. This makes a "neutral wine"

n97 mini wrote: »

As an aside methanol is dangerous and will cause damage to the optic nerve if consumed in sufficient quantities, but there are very few document cases of it causing blindness.

There is no worry of methanol in sugar brews, a unfermented glass of apple juice has more methanol than gallons of high strength sugar water distillate. Even with methanol containing brews there is no real worry, even if you did not throw it out at the start, unless you had an absolutely massive still. The fact is distillation produces nothing new, if you had 5L of beer in the still the meths that comes out of it was in your 5L of beer.

When you hear of people going blind drinking "moonshine" it invariably turns out that gangsters raided a chemical supply house and bottled up industrial methanol or a similar "non-ethanol alcohol". I have never once hear of a case of somebody going blind off homemade vodka. In fact one guy sent off his poorly made vodka to a chemical test house and it came back as being purer than a popular commercial sample he also sent.

hardCopy wrote: »

It's a pity it's illegal here as it seems quite popular in the states and stills look (relatively) easy to assemble.

Its legal in a few countries. Some have limits on the volume of the still which is a good idea -to ensure probably home useage. -just like some countries let your grow a few cannabis plants per year.

The ridiculous myths prevail though, and they get too much tax, so they see no reason to overturn the law.

UnknownSpecies

I'm interested in hearing more about this neutral wine. I've always been interested in doing a homebrew but I don't like beer at all. Something like that wine would be cool because I could make it myself and still get a kick from it!

Any guides or tutorials on how to make this kind of stuff?

rubadub

dorgasm wrote: »

Any guides or tutorials on how to make this kind of stuff?

Dunno about guides, but you can get stuff here
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/alcotec-base-spirit-packs-high-alcohol-yeasts-clearing-agents-and-carbons-122-c.asp

basically you would make up the brew, they have the yeast that goes to 23% which has carbon already in it, though I expect you need more at the end. I would ferment at normal temps for beer, some turbo yeasts can brew at really high temps but it adds to off tastes. After brewing you would clear it as best as possible. I would recommend fining and putting through a wine filter to get it crsytal clear. Then you treat with charcoal, you can make filters, or put carbon in the wine filter and redo it. If your brew is not crystal clear it will clog up all the carbon.

That page has carbon treatments, they might recommend adding with the yeast, not sure.

If done right you can "recharge" carbon by putting it in the oven which burns off the nasties it adsorbed (not absorbed!).

You can just let it sit on the carbon rather than filter it, I would leave it a month at least.

Then you can get essences if you want, or just mix with coke etc. Sugar brews are very pure, you probably would end up with less hangover than drinking bog standard smirnoff red.

oblivious

rubadub wrote: »

if you had 5L of beer in the still the meths that comes out of it was in your 5L of beer..

Hang on you not will familiar with the effect of concentration, drinking 5 liters of beer is not the same as drinking 5l liters of beer distilled, the relative concentration is massively different

n97 mini

rubadub wrote: »

There is no worry of methanol in sugar brews

Absolutely. It only applies to distillation.

rubadub

oblivious wrote: »

Hang on you not will familiar with the effect of concentration, drinking 5 liters of beer is not the same as drinking 5l liters of beer distilled, the relative concentration is massively different

I am very familiar with distillation, I am not sure what you are saying is massively different?

If I put 5L of 5% beer in a still and distilled it I theoretically might get ~0.5L of 50% out, so of course it is concentrated but you get less, and nothing is magically created (many people think meths only is created/occurs during distillation). This 0.5L will have the same amount of methanol in it as my 5L of beer (if you are foolish enough not to discard it)

So if I drank the 5L beer or the 0.5L spirit then I am getting the same meths in my system. Now drinking all the meths in 1 go will probably hit your system harder. If you mixed your spirits to beer strength you will have no real difference, I would expect more hangover from the beer as it would still contain fusel oils which are usually left behind when people stop distilling.

In practice any hobby distilller will discard the meths and "heads" and collect the middle "cut" and stop distilling while there is still some alcohol in the wash/beer/brew.

A lot of the hangover effect is down dehydration, which can be much worse if you are not mixing it well. So people blame the spirits, when really they should be complaining to the publican charging €3 for 200ml of coke which they split with 3 people!

n97 mini wrote: »

Absolutely. It only applies to distillation.

Not sure what you mean by this. Cider can be very high in methanol, you can get the milder effects of methanol poisoning from drinking loads of cider.

TinfoilTinman

I am quite comfortable with wine-making so if you need any tips i'd be happy to help

I'd recommend getting a demijohn (1 gallon glass container). I get mine in a Heath Food shop in Cork city but i'm sure you can get them alot of places. ~10 euro. You will also need a kilo of sugar, yeast, yeast nutrient and steriliser for everything (Milton works ; it's for babies bottles)

Some people use plastic containers but that will give your wine an aftertaste which will be very obvious in a neutral tasting wine.

I haven't seen anyone mention freeze distillation, you partially freeze your neutral wine and pour off the rest of the liquid (a small amount of alcohol will be lost in the ice crystals) and repeat a few times. You end up with a higher concentration in a much smaller volume. It would work best to carry this out multiple times at relatively low temps rather than freeze as much as possible because less alcohol will be trapped in the crystals.

Invest in a hydrometer too as this helps you monitor the alcohol concentration. Please use this process with caution (don't exceed 40%) and use your cop-on.

BeerNut

TinfoilTinman wrote: »

I haven't seen anyone mention freeze distillation

Irish law does not distinguish between types of distillation. Freeze distilling is as illegal as using a still.

n97 mini

BeerNut wrote: »

Irish law does not distinguish between types of distillation. Freeze distilling is as illegal as using a still.

"Freeze distillation" is really a misnomer for concentration by freezing. But the definition has never been legally tested here, so there is no precedent. Anyone that works in law knows it's all about precedents. Precedents are cases that have already gone before the courts.

It has been tested in the US, and the law says it's concentration by freezing, which is perfectly legal. I would suspect if it were tested here the judiciary would look around and take in what everyone else says.

There are other ways to concentrate alcohol without using heat. Reverse osmosis for example.

Funsterdelux

Hmmm, I've been letting this thread brew.

I believe one form or another of distilling should be allowed like in other countries such as Italy, I'm not 100% sure of the facts but I think one is allowed to have a Still which is of a certain size, thus not producing large commercial quantities.

However, the law is the law and until it changes, it's basically illegal to do it.

Has anyone ever tried getting a licence to distil?

BeerNut

Funsterdelux wrote: »

Has anyone ever tried getting a licence to distil?

There's a discussion about it here. Basically, you need to have a still with a capacity of 1,800 litres before the Revenue will consider your application.

What you're supposed to do with the thing if they refuse is up to you, I guess :rolleyes:

TinfoilTinman

n97 mini wrote: »

"Freeze distillation" is really a misnomer for concentration by freezing........ There are other ways to concentrate alcohol without using heat. Reverse osmosis for example.

I thought that regular distillation was illegal mainly due to the possibility of dangerous by-products or the high risk of flammability. I suspect you may be right about the legality of "freeze distilling" as it doesn't produce any by-products.

I forgot about reverse osmosis! Surely that's allowed!

rubadub

TinfoilTinman wrote: »

I thought that regular distillation was illegal mainly due to the possibility of dangerous by-products or the high risk of flammability.

Its really down to tax. The risk of flammability is greatly overstated, I would say there is a far greater danger using a toaster or grill than using a commercial distillation unit. So logically loads of activies should be banned well before distilliation for fear of being dangerous.

As I said a few times already there are no "dangerous by-products" created during distillation. These are already in your brew, by-products of the fermentation, such as methanol and fusel oils.

TinfoilTinman wrote: »

"freeze distilling" as it doesn't produce any by-products.

It does not allow you to make "cuts" and so it is higher in hangover inducing by-products than properly distilled spirits would be (or even badly distilled stuff).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distilled_beverage#Central_Asia

Freeze distillation, the "Mongolian still," is known to have been in use in Central Asia sometime in the early Middle Ages.[citation needed] This technique involves freezing the alcoholic beverage and then removing the ice. The freezing technique had limitations in geography and implementation and consequently was not widely used.

A notable drawback of this technique is that it concentrates toxins such as methanol and fusel alcohols, rather than reducing their concentration.

The law has a catchall for using other method for making "spirits".

In addition to any other duty which may be chargeable, there shall be charged, levied and paid on spirits distilled or manufactured by any other process whatsoever

but spirits are described as

in subsection (1) of section 73 by substituting the following for the definition of “spirits”:


“ ‘spirits’ means any product which exceeds 1.2% vol and which is—


(a) distilled ethyl alcohol,


(b) an alcoholic beverage the full alcohol content of which is the result of a process of distillation,


(c) any other product falling within CN Code 2207 or 2208, even when such product forms part of a product which is not an alcohol product, or


(d) any beverage exceeding 22% vol,


and includes any such product which contains a nonalcoholic product, whether in solution or not;”,

Not sure what those CN codes are, but reading that I am wondering if you can use freeze methods as long as it doesn't end up over 22%

TinfoilTinman

Thanks for the info Rubadub; I probably should have thought that post through a little more as that was a silly mistake to make (i'm normally not that ignorant) but it's nice to know people are looking out for me.

I'll probably end up asking your advice again.

sharingan

dorgasm wrote: »

I'm interested in hearing more about this neutral wine. I've always been interested in doing a homebrew but I don't like beer at all. Something like that wine would be cool because I could make it myself and still get a kick from it!

Any guides or tutorials on how to make this kind of stuff?

Well you dont have to go all the way up to 40% ABV for your first fermentation. Beer in particular is a bit more challenging than other kinds of ferments (kit brewing not-withstanding).

Basic bread yeast will happily take you up to ~8% ABV. For stronger stuff like wine, you will need proper wine yeast etc. You can get more robust yeasts that will take you up to about 23%.

I have had a lot of fun throwing together some ferments from very basic ingredients. Alcoholic Ginger Beer is a favourite around my house, as is elderflower wine. Turbo Cider/Wine is also a great training brew. Teaches the fundamentals well, and hard to screw up.

n97 mini

A notable drawback of this technique is that it concentrates toxins such as methanol and fusel alcohols, rather than reducing their concentration.

It concentrates everything, which is the point. You still have the same quantities however, except for water. How you deal with it afterwards dictates whether it's dangerous or not. i.e. if you double the concentration then it follows you should only consume half as much.

n97 mini

rubadub wrote: »

Not sure what those CN codes are,

Not applicable but they're listed here.

rubadub wrote: »

but reading that I am wondering if you can use freeze methods as long as it doesn't end up over 22%

That would be my reading of it too...

rubadub

n97 mini wrote: »

It concentrates everything, which is the point.

The point of what? of distilling in the first place? on most distilling forums I have seen concentration is not usually the main "point" of distilling, purification/separation is more imporant to most, though many will value concentration to some degree. They do not want to concentrate everything, thats the point.

With normal distillation methods you can easily reduce the amount methanol & fusel content per drinkable unit of alcohol. With freezing methods I believe it could be increased (i.e. 2 units of alcohol from a frozen beer might have more methanol overall than 2 units of the beer itself), I have read of low yeilds from freezing, lots left behind in the ice, so you could have a case where to you are drinking more nasties than normal. Could be the other way around though.

The majority will dilute distilled alcohol back down from 90-95%, the fact they bothered with the time & effort to get to 95% only to dilute it back down shows concentration is not of huge importance.

A 95% alcohol is useful for extracting flavours from fruits, thats one of the few reasons I have ever heard it being an advantage to be that high.

n97 mini

rubadub wrote: »

The point of what? of distilling in the first place?

It's the point of concentration by freezing, aka (wrongly) freeze distillation.

rubadub

n97 mini wrote: »

It's the point of concentration by freezing

I see the concentration of everything as the big disadvantage of freezing, not the point of it. Its a necessary evil in my mind, the point is to get a stronger ethanol content, they have to live with the downsides.

Do you agree with the statement

A notable drawback of this technique is that it concentrates toxins such as methanol and fusel alcohols, rather than reducing their concentration.

n97 mini

If you're trying to make a whiskey or other spirit, then freeze concentration is not the way to do it.

rubadub wrote: »

Do you agree with the statement

I do agree with the statement, but it's misleading.

If you take a pint of beer, freeze it and remove half the water, you still have the same amount of other stuff in it as when it was a pint.

That statement makes it sound like the relative quantities of bad stuff are increased by freeze concentration.

rubadub

n97 mini wrote: »

That statement makes it sound like the relative quantities of bad stuff are increased by freeze concentration.

Fair enough, reading it again I can see it could be misleading, it should really say something like
A notable drawback of this technique is that, along with ethanol, it concentrates toxins such as methanol and fusel alcohols in roughly the same proportion

I am not sure if it does come off in the same amounts though, probably is not much in it.

Funsterdelux wrote: »

I believe one form or another of distilling should be allowed like in other countries such as Italy, I'm not 100% sure of the facts but I think one is allowed to have a Still which is of a certain size, thus not producing large commercial quantities.

In Italy I believe 5L is the limit. This puts off commercial moonshiners as you say but also is safer, since if some idiot did collect all the methanol at the start it is no more than what would be in 5L of whatever they are distilling. If you had a 1000L still and drank the first bottle you collected you have meths (unless its a sugar water wash in which case it is still very minimal).

It still doesn't worry me much and claiming the ban is since it is dangerous just doesn't wash with me. Otherwise fireplaces should be illegal, distilling is just like following a recipe, if you didn't cook your chicken right you get sick, if you don't throw out your meths the same.

n97 mini

rubadub wrote: »

Fair enough, reading it again I can see it could be misleading, it should really say something like
A notable drawback of this technique is that, along with ethanol, it concentrates toxins such as methanol and fusel alcohols in roughly the same proportion

It really shouldn't say anything at all, as concentrating everything is not a drawback when you're looking to er... concentrate everything.

We

Hypothetically, if someone was to build their own 1800litre still as cheaply as possible(with no intention of actually using it), are their chances of obtaining a licence much improved? :pac:

BeerNut

We wrote: »

Hypothetically, if someone was to build their own 1800litre still as cheaply as possible(with no intention of actually using it), are their chances of obtaining a licence much improved? :pac:

It certainly sounds like it. Though I'm sure there are more conditions to the licence than just still size. For one thing, you will have to pay excise duty on everything you distill, even if it's for your own personal use. The excise-free "domestic use" clause that exists for brewing does not exist for distilling.

Allrounder

If anyone is really interested in dispelling all the myths and nonsense about home distilling look in on stillsmart.co.uk (they're in the UK but have many members in Irl too) or homedistiller.org which is in the US and has members worldwide.

Homedistilling, while quite illegal, is perfectly safe and for the record a 25lt wash @ 15% will contain no more than 100ml of higher alcohols like Methanol, Esters, Fusil oils and these are removed at the beginning of the distillation process because they have a lower evaporation point than the remainder of the still contents.

Fermenting a wash over 15% will result in exponential increases in the production of fusils, esters and other congeners so anyone producing alcohol for consumption should avoid High Yield or Turbo ferments.

+ as a Joe or Mary Soap, you haven't a hope of getting a distillation licence in Ireland.

AR:)

rubadub

n97 mini wrote: »

as concentrating everything is not a drawback when you're looking to er... concentrate everything.

I have read thousands of posts on home distillation forums, I never once heard of a hobby distiller who wanted to concentrate everything. This is the point they were getting at.

Allrounder

I think your meds are not working for you and a few others here. Happy to discuss home distilling but lets keep it in this galaxy.

Allrounder:cool:

blackworld

I never have tried doing it at home, but I have taste it, my auntie got to make it.
It taste quite wonderful.

Allrounder

Let me be the first to say "Happy Christmas Everybody":p:p:p

AR:cool:

rubadub

Allrounder wrote: »

I think your meds are not working for you and a few others here. Happy to discuss home distilling but lets keep it in this galaxy.

Not sure if that was directed at my post? if it was I have no idea why.

Allrounder

No, not you, rubadub, the guy who thought distilling was about wanting to concentrate everything and other myths, LOL

AR:cool:

AntoSRFC

Didnt want to start a new thread but was looking to try out some of the spirit kits for a change.

Is it really as simple as adding 6kg of brewing sugar in 25 litres of water then adding some this stuff for a day or two. http://www.homebrewwest.ie/alcotec-48-dual-turbo-741-p.asp

Have many people tried this yet? Really just looking for a nuetral enough flavoured brew at around 20%.

Would probaly add some vodka essence for some flavour. But at what stage and quantity would you need to add? http://www.homebrewwest.ie/alcotec-swedish-vodka-1320-p.asp

Is it much more different to doing beer i.e. tempeture etc.?

Thanks for your help

Allrounder

OK AntoSRFC, sorry you didn't get an answer to your questions. I have been very busy lately and haven't been here for a while.

On your first Q; no, it's not that simple. Alcotec Turbo yeast is designed to be distilled when fermentation is completed and the wash cleared. Under no circumstances can you drink the product at end of fermentation. Also, the manufacturer's claims of 48hr fermentation are to be taken with a lot of salt. More like 5 days.:rolleyes:

On your 2nd Q; Mny people use similar producs but these are only meant for distillation where it is legal to do so and it's not legal in Ireland. This type of fermentation is designed to produce what is essentially a wine although the taste is quite off-putting because only white sugar is used. Once fermentation is completed the product, known as a 'wash', is then distilled to extract the neutral alcohol from the 'wine'. This neutral spirit is then diluted to 40% ABV, filtered and then flavoured according to your own taste.

3rd Q; The use of essences to mimic the flavour of commercial spirits is not terribly successfull. Vodka is a neutral spirit, odourless and tasteless, so the idea of adding an essence to an already neutral spirit, from a still, to produce an odourless and tasteless copy of Vodka is laughable. Similarly, you cannot add an essence to a bad tasting wine like product and expect it to make even a reasonable copy of a commercial Vodka.

4th Q; The first part of the process is more like making wine but using only white sugar and yeast. But, again the product is not intended to be consumed after fermentation and would make you quite ill if you did.

Unless you can distill the wash don't go near these products.

Visit http://www.stillsmart.co.uk/forum/index.php for more information on how those products are used.

Again, sorry you had to wait so long for an answer.

AR:cool:

P.S. I know all this stuff because I was gullible once tried making the stuff by fermentation alone - disaster - I flushed the lot after I found out it was really only intended for distilling.

oblivious

Allrounder wrote: »

I
Homedistilling, while quite illegal, is perfectly safe and for the record a 25lt wash @ 15% will contain no more than 100ml of higher alcohols like Methanol, Esters, Fusil oils and these are removed at the beginning of the distillation process because they have a lower evaporation point than the remainder of the still contents.

Methanol has lower boiling (than ethanol) pint hence it the first cut, but Fusel oils/alcohols and other such volatile hydrocarbons have a higher and come of in the tail running's

like a lot of things its safe when the person knows what they are up to

AntoSRFC

@ Allrounder thanks for such a detailed response

Yeah a few things were not really adding up especially the vodka essence and thankfully you have saved me from an epic fail:D

So I gather from that there is no way of creating a drinkable brew around the 20% alc mark by fermentation alone?

Allrounder

For Oblivious: the point of that post, in the context it was posted, was that any dangerous substances are removed during the distilling process and I used a certain amount of licence in simplifying/truncating an explanation of how substances are separated/removed during the distillation process. It was not intended as a masterclass but was to clear a misunderstanding by another poster and, again, in the context that it was used in. Hope I've cleared up your misunderstanding!:)

For AntoSRFC: Afraid not. Anything you can make as that strength would taste pretty awful and doesn't bear thinking about. Sorry!:(

AR:cool:

rubadub

Allrounder wrote: »

Alcotec Turbo yeast is designed to be distilled when fermentation is completed and the wash cleared. Under no circumstances can you drink the product at end of fermentation.

But, again the product is not intended to be consumed after fermentation and would make you quite ill if you did.

I have never heard this warning before. It is intended to be distilled but are you inferring it is somehow dangerous?

Allrounder wrote: »

the manufacturer's claims of 48hr fermentation are to be taken with a lot of salt. More like 5 days.:rolleyes:

True, you can turn 48/24 hours into 4.8 and 2.4 days! They can withstand high ferment temps and some distillers might prefer this.

Allrounder wrote: »

Vodka is a neutral spirit, odourless and tasteless, so the idea of adding an essence to an already neutral spirit, from a still, to produce an odourless and tasteless copy of Vodka is laughable.

On many distilling sites you will see it defined as that. There are usually 2 types of hobby distillers, the "chemists" who do not care about the fermentation/flavour side too much and are mainly interested in their still operation. The sign of a well constructed and well operated still is the distinct lack of smell & taste in your product, a good clean spirit will require little or no carbon treatment, another sign of correct setup & procedures is the lack of a "congener hangover".

The other group would be the whiskey distillers, who pay more attention to their wash and do not want a neutral spirit. Some will be in both groups.

I don't think copying the vodka taste is laughable though. Like whiskey makers, I read absolut vodka will retain their heads & tails and blend quantities of them back to the clean middle cut, to add some flavour back to the neutral vodka. So not everybodies definition of vodka is the same, this could stem from commercial factories doing it on the cheap and not distilling correctly and being reluctant to discard heads & tails. So they have ended up redefining peoples perceived ideas of what a vodka actually is. Just like cadburys use cheaper raw materials/methods and have convinced people that it is real chocolate. Some may have grown to like this offtaste in vodka (and chocolate).

A good example of a "clean" vodka is skyy vodka, which is good for cocktails and was developed by chemists as a "congener hangover free vodka". Absolut's flavoured range seems to be a far cleaner product so I expect they might not add back any heads/tails.

I got "vodka essence" in a kit before, vile smelling stuff that I did not use.

AntoSRFC wrote: »

So I gather from that there is no way of creating a drinkable brew around the 20% alc mark by fermentation alone?

There are
http://www.homebrewwest.ie/prohibition-high-alcohol-liqueurspirit-kits-79-c.asp
You would have to work it out to see if it is worthwhile, it might be cheaper to buy proper spirits.

Though you can not legally distil without a licence you can treat alcohols. So you could buy cheapo lidl vodka and carbon treat it and mature it with toasted oak chips etc.

Allrounder

Interesting input Rubadub.:)

I have never heard this warning before. It is intended to be distilled but are you inferring it is somehow dangerous?

Turbo's Dangerous? No, but Turbo Yeasts produce very high levels of congeners. In addition, the wash from a Turbo smells and tastes foul. Initial fermentation is only the first stage of using those products. The second & third stages, distillation and filtration, are where the product is made suitable for consumption and if you can't complete these two stages then don't use Turbo Yeasts.:rolleyes:

They can withstand high ferment temps and some distillers might prefer this.

Higher Temps! Yes, Turbos can often withstand higher temps but this is not a good thing. High temperature and high levels of alcohol will stress and kill yeast cells and produce high levels of congeners. High levels of dead yeast cells will also taint the wash. The best and cleanest fermentation is done at low temp. It takes longer but it's better in the end.:)

If Turbo Yeasts and high temp ferments were good all the major distilleries would be using them. They are a poor compromise for those who cannot wait.:p

I don't think copying the vodka taste is laughable though.

On the Vodka matter, we'll have to agree to differ on that. As you said yourself "Vodka essence - vile smelling stuff" so it's hardly going to make already vile tasting Turbo Yeast wash into nice tasting Vodka substitute.:rolleyes:

As for those Prohibition Kits, the end product from these taste like sickly sweet, cheap, wine-like liquid that tastes nothing like the product descriptions on the packaging. You will get about 18-20% alcohol content but is that all you want? Regardless of taste?

Bottom line - if it looks to good to be true it probably is. Most liqueurs are made using distilled spirits so anything else is a poor compromise.

Don't get me wrong. My only purpose here is to caution people that you can't make a silk purse out of a sows ear. I hate to see people caught out by creative marketing and having to throw the product, and their money, down the drain because it really doesn't do what it says on the tin. I know because I was foolish enough, once upon a time, to try these things and never got even a palatable result.

So you could buy cheapo lidl vodka and carbon treat it

Not so sure how effective the carbon treating of cheap Vodka would be. Unscrupulous distillers who produce cheap-cheap vodka probably don't remove all of the Foreshots, Heads or Tails and I suspect such products are only distilled once. If this is the case, and I think it's a fair assumption, then the only way to remove those unwanted components is by further distillation.:)

Got to go - Cheerio!

AR:cool:

stevenmu

Allrounder wrote: »

As for those Prohibition Kits, the end product from these taste like sickly sweet, cheap, wine-like liquid that tastes nothing like the product descriptions on the packaging. You will get about 18-20% alcohol content but is that all you want? Regardless of taste?

I saw a great article before about using various fruit combos to flavour vodka, and was considering using prohibition or similar kits to do the same thing. Do you think they'd be unsuitable for this type of use?

Not so sure how effective the carbon treating of cheap Vodka would be. Unscrupulous distillers who produce cheap-cheap vodka probably don't remove all of the Foreshots, Heads or Tails and I suspect such products are only distilled once. If this is the case, and I think it's a fair assumption, then the only way to remove those unwanted components is by further distillation.:)

Mythbusters actually did a test of this, they lined up a range of dirt cheap to top end vodkas and included a dirt cheap vodka that they filtered themselves. They taste tested them themselves and got a professional taster to try too. IIRC the mythbuster team picked the filtered cheap vodka as being the best, the expert picked the top end but had the filtered cheap one in second (out of 5 or 6). Of course that's just a taste test and says nothing about how you'd feel the day after drinking a lot of it.

Allrounder

Using good quality Vodka and fruits soaking in a suitable sealed jar can produce some beautiful results but again the "Prohibition" type kits will leave you quite disappointed.

The difference between good and poor quality Vodka is the amount of congeners such as Methanol, Esters and other undesirable substances in the spirit. With poor quality Vodka you'll know all about it in the morning and who knows what damage they can do to your brain, liver and kidneys, etc.

AR:cool:

n97 mini

rubadub wrote: »

I have read thousands of posts on home distillation forums, I never once heard of a hobby distiller who wanted to concentrate everything. This is the point they were getting at.

Look up eisbock, which involves freeze "distillation".

Allrounder

Don't follow that.:(

So-called 'freeze distillation' is actually a crude and inefficient method of separating alcohol from the other components in a liquid. It has nothing to do with concentrating anything!!

AR:cool:

n97 mini

Allrounder wrote: »

Don't follow that.:(

So-called 'freeze distillation' is actually a crude and inefficient method of separating alcohol from the other components in a liquid. It has nothing to do with concentrating anything!!

AR:cool:

I think you read it wrong. It's a method of removing the water in the form of ice. Removing water = concentration.

Allrounder

You cannot "concentrate" ethanol. Removing the water from a liquid containing ethanol by freezing = separation, similar to what happens in distillation.

Having said that, I understand where you're coming from.
AR:cool: