Sandhurst- BBC4 program

El Guapo!

Just a heads up on a program that might interest some of you in here. I meant to post this last week but forgot.
Anyway there's a program called Sandhurst on BBC4 right now. It was on last week too. Its about new officers being put through their paces at Sandhurst. Its a really good program and each cadet tells what life is like in Sandhurst and the emotional toll it takes on them.

pablomakaveli

Bah saw this post too late.

Theres actually a show on BBC 3 at 10 on Thursdays that shows the infantry being trained which is worth checking out too.

El Guapo!

Cheers, I'll watch that.
That Sandhurst program is repeated tonight at 1 on bbc4 if you wanna record it. And the next episode in the series is on next Monday at 9.

HellsAngel

Anyone seen Tumbledown directly afterwards ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumbledown

concussion

Tumbledown was terrible...I just couldn't keep watching it. Sandhurst made for very interesting viewing.

Batsy

It reminds me of when I joined the Royal Navy in 1997 at the age of 16 straight from leaving school. The first week or two was an absolute nightmare. Talk about being homesick!

Us new recruits all queued up outside a room on the first day at HMS Raleigh in Cornwall. A lot of us, particularly the younger ones, were homesick. We went into the room one by one to sign a register to officially become RN sailors. We were told we didn't have to sign it there and then and could sleep on it if we wanted to and then decide what to do in the morning. I signed it straight away. Others slept on it. On the first night, with about 30 of us sleeping in little beds in a large room, I was lying there and I could hear one bloke crying. I think he cried all night long. The next morning he left and we didn't see him again. It turns out he was one of those who didn't sign the register and decided to sleep on it. So he was only in the RN for about a day.

discus

16 and straight from school - I'd say ya grew up quick from there Batsy!

pablomakaveli

16 is very young to be going into the military. A recruiter told me that going in in your early twenties is probably the best option because you're physically and mentally mature and should cope better.

I definitely wouldnt have been able for something like that at 16. Fair play for gettingthrough it though.

discus

pablomakaveli wrote: »

16 is very young to be going into the military. A recruiter told me that going in in your early twenties is probably the best option because you're physically and mentally mature and should cope better.

I definitely wouldnt have been able for something like that at 16. Fair play for gettingthrough it though.

The majority of lads I've come across joining the British Army are 16/17!

HellsAngel

pablomakaveli wrote: »

16 is very young to be going into the military. A recruiter told me that going in in your early twenties is probably the best option because you're physically and mentally mature and should cope better.

I definitely wouldnt have been able for something like that at 16. Fair play for gettingthrough it though.

A 16 year old joining military forces !!!! I'm serious in this question, do they have to have offical parental approvement ?

neilled

HellsAngel wrote: »

A 16 year old joining military forces !!!! I'm serious in this question, do they have to have offical parental approvement ?

Yes they do. The cannot deploy operationally until 18 though afiak.

concussion

Currently Parental consent is required for those under 18, and they are not deployed operationally until they are 18.

HellsAngel

Is it just the British navy that a young fella can join at 16 ? I'd doubt if the Brit army or RAF recruit as young as 16 ?

I'd imagine in most countries it would be 17 or 18 ?

discus

HellsAngel wrote: »

Is it just the British navy that a young fella can join at 16 ? I'd doubt if the Brit army or RAF recruit as young as 16 ?

I'd imagine in most countries it would be 17 or 18 ?

All arms take 16/17 year olds. In most countries it's the same.

LondonIrish90

HellsAngel wrote: »

Is it just the British navy that a young fella can join at 16 ? I'd doubt if the Brit army or RAF recruit as young as 16 ?

I'd imagine in most countries it would be 17 or 18 ?

Why would you imagine most countries would be different?

HellsAngel

discus wrote: »

All arms take 16/17 year olds. In most countries it's the same.

From what I know 17 is the minium age in most countries ( I think it should be at least 18 as training a 16/17 year old how to use a deadly weapon is a bit crazy though I know most of you will disagree, I'm in my 40's BTW)

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Why would you imagine most countries would be different?

Well it's just the British navy had a tradition for taking on very young recruits. Ok I know it's a long time ago but Nelson joined when he was about 13 I think, very young lads served as powder monkeys etc. Just tradition.

krissovo

I was 15 when I joined the British Army as a "Junior Leader" in the Royal Engineers. The BA had/have a Junior soldier/leadership program where you spend at least a year in a junior regiment of similar aged lads and do a Full basic military training module followed by continuation training to gain experience.

Once you completed the junior year you then went on to an adult training unit for continuation training followed by your first real unit at approx 17/18.

HellsAngel

krissovo wrote: »

I was 15 when I joined the British Army as a "Junior Leader" in the Royal Engineers. The BA had/have a Junior soldier/leadership program where you spend at least a year in a junior regiment of similar aged lads and do a Full basic military training module followed by continuation training to gain experience.

Once you completed the junior year you then went on to an adult training unit for continuation training followed by your first real unit at approx 17/18.

Not trying to be a smart Alec, but are you seriously telling me that the British army take 15 year olds on a full time basis away at a barracks etc

jdee99

I joined the RAF at 16 (it was back in 1974 mind) and left when I was 40.

JD

krissovo

HellsAngel wrote: »

Not trying to be a smart Alec, but are you seriously telling me that the British army take 15 year olds on a full time basis away at a barracks etc

The BA closed the Junior program down a number of years ago, when I went through in the late 80's it was going strong and I was not the youngest there.

Yes its full time, the youngest was a Infantry Junior Leader at 14! The first leave period was after 14 weeks once we completed basic training.

I got a Full HGV 1 (C+E) License on the program at 16. The youngest guy to get this was 15:eek:

krissovo

The reason I joined at 15 was because I left school before my O level exams which was perfectly normal to do at the time. As I had left school I was perfectly eligible to join the Junior Army. In the case of the 14 year old he was expelled and no other school would accept him so he joined the Junior Army.

HellsAngel

krissovo wrote: »

The BA closed the Junior program down a number of years ago, when I went through in the late 80's it was going strong and I was not the youngest there.

Yes its full time, the youngest was a Infantry Junior Leader at 14! The first leave period was after 14 weeks once we completed basic training.

I got a Full HGV 1 (C+E) License on the program at 16. The youngest guy to get this was 15:eek:

krissovo

HellsAngel wrote: »

You are welcome to your opinion, maybe you should do some research before you make blanket statements.

Edit, here are the current rules, ok these say 17 but at the time it was to any age serving member and as its a minimum of 17 now I expect it has changed:

Military drivers

A number of exemptions exist to assist British and visiting members of the armed forces in carrying out their duties. The majority of these exemptions cover large vehicles enabling them to be driven by drivers of a younger age, often, without the necessary additional large vehicle driving entitlement. The exemptions apply to British full time military personnel and the Territorial Army.

The minimum ages for driving most vehicles are lower for the military than they are for civilians provided the vehicles are being driven subject to the orders of a member of the armed forces of the Crown for either army, navy or airforce purposes. They do not apply to visiting forces (see visiting forces section). n.b lower ages for driving do not apply when either full-time or part- time troops are off duty.



Large motor bikes (category A) - 17 instead of 21 years

Medium vehicles (category C1/C1+E) -17 instead of 21 years

Large Goods Vehicles (category C/C+E) -17 instead of 21 years

Passenger Carrying (category D1/D) Vehicles -17 instead of 21 years

Source: http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/drivers/militarydrivers.aspx

HellsAngel

krissovo wrote: »

You are welcome to your opinion, maybe you should do some research before you make blanket statements.

Edit, here are the current rules, ok these say 17 but at the time it was to any age serving member and as its a minimum of 17 now I expect it has changed:

Military drivers

A number of exemptions exist to assist British and visiting members of the armed forces in carrying out their duties. The majority of these exemptions cover large vehicles enabling them to be driven by drivers of a younger age, often, without the necessary additional large vehicle driving entitlement. The exemptions apply to British full time military personnel and the Territorial Army.

The minimum ages for driving most vehicles are lower for the military than they are for civilians provided the vehicles are being driven subject to the orders of a member of the armed forces of the Crown for either army, navy or airforce purposes. They do not apply to visiting forces (see visiting forces section). n.b lower ages for driving do not apply when either full-time or part- time troops are off duty.



Large motor bikes (category A) - 17 instead of 21 years

Medium vehicles (category C1/C1+E) -17 instead of 21 years

Large Goods Vehicles (category C/C+E) -17 instead of 21 years

Passenger Carrying (category D1/D) Vehicles -17 instead of 21 years

Source: http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/drivers/militarydrivers.aspx

I suppose in theory a 16 year old could become an astronaut too. Anybody who'd let a 16 or 17 year old drive a HGV needs to be arrested for irrespondcibility to a minor or something :rolleyes:

shaneybaby

HellsAngel wrote: »

I suppose in theory a 16 year old could become an astronaut too. Anybody who'd let a 16 or 17 year old drive a HGV needs to be arrested for irrespondcibility to a minor or something :rolleyes:

Any good country boy knows well how to drive a tractor by 14. A HGV is only a little bit heavier hence the need for the extra year or too

krissovo

HellsAngel wrote: »

I suppose in theory a 16 year old could become an astronaut too. Anybody who'd let a 16 or 17 year old drive a HGV needs to be arrested for irrespondcibility to a minor or something :rolleyes:

Get over it! The junior service kept a lot of lads of the streets and out of jail, myself included. We grew up quick, absorbed information like sponges and for the most part turned into very good career soldiers.

I happened to get my HGV while waiting to come of age before I could join "man service". Also at 16 during this time I passed a full bike license (no restriction), a track license and even a fecking road roller license as I was an engineer. In the last 6 weeks until I came of age I was driving Bedford 14 toners with trailers all around the UK supporting various exercises like a lot of 16 year olds in the same position and we did perfectly fine.

cruasder777

There are still junior leaders, but the age has been raised and the structure changed, some of the youngest and brightest NCOs have been junior leaders, I knew a guy who was a Sgt by the age of 21.

I believe on entry to the adult army many junior leaders entered as lance corporals.

There were a couple of 17 yr olds killed in the Falklands, straight out of the Para junior leaders.

http://www.ijlb.com/forum/memorial/index.htm

HellsAngel

krissovo wrote: »

Get over it! The junior service kept a lot of lads of the streets and out of jail, myself included. We grew up quick, absorbed information like sponges and for the most part turned into very good career soldiers.

I happened to get my HGV while waiting to come of age before I could join "man service". Also at 16 during this time I passed a full bike license (no restriction), a track license and even a fecking road roller license as I was an engineer. In the last 6 weeks until I came of age I was driving Bedford 14 toners with trailers all around the UK supporting various exercises like a lot of 16 year olds in the same position and we did perfectly fine.

Really, I suppose with the British army's superhuman ability, you could ride the motorbike and drive the 14 toner at the same time :rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

HellsAngel wrote: »

Really, I suppose with the British army's superhuman ability, you could ride the motorbike and drive the 14 toner at the same time :rolleyes:

HellsAngel

It wasn't me! wrote: »

:eek: Typical someone points out a blatant Walter Mitty story and he's accused of having a chip on his shoulder

I'll tell you what, since the Brits can train 16 year olds to drive 14 tonners while getting a full lincense for a motorbike etc then maybe Ice Road Truckers should have the 16 year old Brit army super truckers showing their drivers how it's done instead !!!!!

goldie fish

I see no difference in either photo...

HellsAngel

What's the pass rate for trainee officers at Sandhurst ? Out of say 100, how many are failed and if they are failed do they get the chance to sit the officer course again ?

xflyer

Why? Are you thinking of joining? I don't think you meet the profile.

Exactly why do you troll contribute to these thread given your evident distaste for all things British? There must be a forum just for you somewhere.

goldie fish

xflyer wrote: »

Why? Are you thinking of joining? I don't think you meet the profile.

Exactly why do you troll contribute to these thread given your evident distaste for all things British? There must be a forum just for you somewhere.

Boards.ie does not have a childish internet warrior forum.

krissovo

HellsAngel wrote: »

:eek: Typical someone points out a blatant Walter Mitty story and he's accused of having a chip on his shoulder

I'll tell you what, since the Brits can train 16 year olds to drive 14 tonners while getting a full lincense for a motorbike etc then maybe Ice Road Truckers should have the 16 year old Brit army super truckers showing their drivers how it's done instead !!!!!

What is your issue if you do not have a chip on shoulder? Must be sour grapes instead;)

krissovo

cruasder777 wrote: »

There are still junior leaders, but the age has been raised and the structure changed, some of the youngest and brightest NCOs have been junior leaders, I knew a guy who was a Sgt by the age of 21.

I believe on entry to the adult army many junior leaders entered as lance corporals.

To be Sergeant by 21 is almost impossible, there simply is not enough time in 3 years to do the required courses. If you are that good you are normally sent on officer selection.

The only way its possible is if the guy was "tech" trade in the Signals or REME where they become Sergeants when they complete their technical course. I dont think even a Military Policeman or Int Corps can make SGT in the time and they finish training as Corporals.

Lastly a junior Leader Soldier would not enter adult service as a L/Cpl, they will certainly be a year or two ahead of adult entry soldiers to do the promotion course.

RMD

HellsAngel please do some research before throwing around these ridiculous walter mitty comments. It doesn't take a lot of brain power to drive a HGV, with the correct training a 16 year old could do so. Is it irresponsible that many farmers will have taught their children to drive a tractor by the age 13/14? It's not hard to learn how to drive the various vehicles he has and neither is it hard to pass the tests once correct training is provided. You could do it at 16, I could do it at 16, anyone with a head on them could do it at 16.

Why bother posting in these topics when you have nothing constructive to add? Chip on the Shoulder, Sour Grapes, call it whatever you want, you evidently have a case of it.

cruasder777

krissovo wrote: »

To be Sergeant by 21 is almost impossible, there simply is not enough time in 3 years to do the required courses. If you are that good you are normally sent on officer selection.

The only way its possible is if the guy was "tech" trade in the Signals or REME where they become Sergeants when they complete their technical course. I dont think even a Military Policeman or Int Corps can make SGT in the time and they finish training as Corporals.

Lastly a junior Leader Soldier would not enter adult service as a L/Cpl, they will certainly be a year or two ahead of adult entry soldiers to do the promotion course.

Might be now, but not in the past.

Enoch Powell MP went from private to a Brigader after only 4 yrs service.

wiki
Having begun the war as the youngest professor in the Commonwealth, Powell ended it as a brigadier. He was given the promotion to serve on a committee of generals and brigadiers to plan the postwar defence of India: the resulting 470-page report was almost entirely written by Powell. For a few weeks he was the youngest Brigadier in the British Army,[34] and he was one of the very few men of the entire war to rise from private to brigadier (another being Fitzroy Maclean).



There are even people out there who have passed SAS selection at 18 (John Wiseman) or 19 (Robert Stirling)

At the age of sixteen, Robert Stirling joined the British Army as a Junior Leader Paratrooper and so spent his first year of service undergoing a strict training regime which alternated weapons skills, drill, physical exercise and education all designed to prepare a soldier for leadership.

Entering adult service and passing P Company, the Parachute Regiment selection, led to four tours in Northern Ireland and some covert experience wearing a donkey jacket and carrying a 9mm pistol.

After transferring to the Royal Hussars, and completing tank training, Robert Stirling was probably the second youngest ever to pass selection for the SAS at 19 years of age. The youngest, of course, was the famous John "Lofty" Wiseman - legendary SAS soldier, author of several books and generally good guy. Lofty was Robert Stirling's Sergeant Major when Lofty ran the training wing at 22 SAS Regt.

http://www.robert-stirling.com/about.html

krissovo

cruasder777 wrote: »

Might be now, but not in the past.

Enoch Powell MP went from private to a Brigader after only 4 yrs service.

When the Army grows from 6 regular divisions in 1938 to over 60 in 1942 then promotion is kind of out the ordinary and rapid for some. Mr Powell was also in the Int Corp, I believe I mentioned Int corp in my post as a potential rapid promotion role.

HellsAngel

RMD wrote: »

HellsAngel please do some research before throwing around these ridiculous walter mitty comments. It doesn't take a lot of brain power to drive a HGV, with the correct training a 16 year old could do so. Is it irresponsible that many farmers will have taught their children to drive a tractor by the age 13/14? It's not hard to learn how to drive the various vehicles he has and neither is it hard to pass the tests once correct training is provided. You could do it at 16, I could do it at 16, anyone with a head on them could do it at 16.

Why bother posting in these topics when you have nothing constructive to add? Chip on the Shoulder, Sour Grapes, call it whatever you want, you evidently have a case of it.

I ride a motorbike, have been a taxi man and took a few HGV lessons to see what it was like so I know what it entails :rolleyes: 16 year olds driving HGV lorries !!!!!! do you see many 16 year old taxi men :rolleyes:

I'm in my 40's but like you all I once thought I was ' the man ' in my youth, but you have to be kidding or a Walter Mitty to think 16 (or personnally for that matter anyone under 21) year olds could respondcibily drive a HGV at 16 for God's sake :rolleyes:

It wasn't me!

FFS! A generation ago childhoods were a damn sight shorter. My own father drove a lorry for a quarry a few years before he should have been, and never had any issue. Plenty of soldiers fought in the second world war at 18 and 19, and there are 18 and 19 year olds serving abroad with just about every modern army. Armies have always trained up youths, through one scheme or another, and have done a lot of good in preventing plenty of people taking bad turns in their lives. The skills they learn (including driving courses) will stand to them in later life if they leave, and learning them early is no harm. Like just about every rural guy, I learned to drive the likes of a tractor or a JCB a damn sight younger than 16, and I knew plenty of guys at 14 operating the likes of a combine, so suggesting that the army teaching skills to younger people (And 16 is not young - they're eligible to work for their living) is somehow irresponsible is ridiculous. They've been doing it all along and have you heard of some systemic problem arising from it?

HellsAngel

xflyer wrote: »

Why? Are you thinking of joining? I don't think you meet the profile.

Exactly why do you troll contribute to these thread given your evident distaste for all things British? There must be a forum just for you somewhere.

Can you tell me how these reasonable questions could be trolling ?

What's the pass rate for trainee officers at Sandhurst ? Out of say 100, how many are failed and if they are failed do they get the chance to sit the officer course again ?

Local-womanizer

Why in a thread about a TV show covering Sandhurst is the majority of the debate on something completely irrelevant to the thread?!

On the actual show, I think it is great, but it fails to show the true extent of their PT.

The CS on the other hand is brilliant!

krissovo

HellsAngel wrote: »

Can you tell me how these reasonable questions could be trolling ?

What's the pass rate for trainee officers at Sandhurst ? Out of say 100, how many are failed and if they are failed do they get the chance to sit the officer course again ?

Your not asking questions, your making blanket statements and claiming I am a Walt even though its been clearly proven my statements were correct.

Anyway the pass rate, in my day it was around 60%. About 20% didnt make cut, left by choice or had a medical condition that prevented service. The remainder had injuries or failed tests and were back coursed.

RMD

HellsAngel wrote: »

I ride a motorbike, have been a taxi man and took a few HGV lessons to see what it was like so I know what it entails :rolleyes: 16 year olds driving HGV lorries !!!!!! do you see many 16 year old taxi men :rolleyes:

I'm in my 40's but like you all I once thought I was ' the man ' in my youth, but you have to be kidding or a Walter Mitty to think 16 (or personnally for that matter anyone under 21) year olds could respondcibily drive a HGV at 16 for God's sake :rolleyes:

A 16 year old properly trained driving under the supervision of his Sgt / CO I'd consider perfectly capable of driving a HGV responsibly because he'll know if he doesn't do so, he's going to end up in an almighty pile of shíte.

You don't see any 16 year old taxi drivers because the law restricts them from doing so, but if I saw in a taxi being driven by a 16 year old I wouldn't feel any different than being in your taxi as I know he's passed the exact same tests as yourself. The average 16 year shouldn't be driving HGV's, but a 16 year who lives in a disciplined military environment and provided the proper training, who then pass the following tests is perfectly capable of driving a HGV in my view. They've been sufficiently trained and passed the tests (which are the same for civilians) so what's the problem?

El Guapo!

Local-womanizer wrote: »

Why in a thread about a TV show covering Sandhurst is the majority of the debate on something completely irrelevant to the thread?!

On the actual show, I think it is great, but it fails to show the true extent of their PT.

The CS on the other hard is brilliant!

Yeah I started this thread just about the show and it just totally descended into chaos!

discus

HellsAngel wrote: »

Can you tell me how these reasonable questions could be trolling ?

What's the pass rate for trainee officers at Sandhurst ? Out of say 100, how many are failed and if they are failed do they get the chance to sit the officer course again ?

30%

HellsAngel

RMD wrote: »

A 16 year old properly trained driving under the supervision of his Sgt / CO I'd consider perfectly capable of driving a HGV responsibly because he'll know if he doesn't do so, he's going to end up in an almighty pile of shíte.

You don't see any 16 year old taxi drivers because the law restricts them from doing so, but if I saw in a taxi being driven by a 16 year old I wouldn't feel any different than being in your taxi as I know he's passed the exact same tests as yourself. The average 16 year shouldn't be driving HGV's, but a 16 year who lives in a disciplined military environment and provided the proper training, who then pass the following tests is perfectly capable of driving a HGV in my view. They've been sufficiently trained and passed the tests (which are the same for civilians) so what's the problem?

Sure, and I could get a date with Miss World :rolleyes:

HellsAngel

Dean09 wrote: »

Yeah I started this thread just about the show and it just totally descended into chaos!

I actually agree with you, it's gone down hill since post #21, I have to admit my part in it, but claiming a 16 year old got a full HGV license ( in fact this individual also claims to have got a full bike license (no restriction), a track license and even a road roller license as I was an engineer. All at in one year at just 16 !!!!!! )

discus wrote: »

30%

30% pass or fail ? And if they fail can they retake the course ?

cruasder777

krissovo wrote: »

To be Sergeant by 21 is almost impossible, there simply is not enough time in 3 years to do the required courses. If you are that good you are normally sent on officer selection.

The only way its possible is if the guy was "tech" trade in the Signals or REME where they become Sergeants when they complete their technical course. I dont think even a Military Policeman or Int Corps can make SGT in the time and they finish training as Corporals.

Lastly a junior Leader Soldier would not enter adult service as a L/Cpl, they will certainly be a year or two ahead of adult entry soldiers to do the promotion course.

There you go, in 1967 this guy was a 20 yr old Sgt in the BA. Ten years ago there was a guy in the paper who was 21, I know a guy who in the early 70s was a 21 yr old Sgt, unusual, but not impossible.

http://www.martinfrost.ws/htmlfiles/parkes_witness.html

1.I am an explosives engineer of good standing and have been involved in explosives engineering for almost forty years. I am ex Royal Engineer and held the distinction of being the youngest Sergeant in the British Army in active service during the Aden troubles in 1966-67 until British interest was removed from that theatre. I was twenty years old and received a Commander in Chiefs commendation for my anti terrorist and internal security endeavours.#



As regards going in as a Lance Corporal, some did, (Which was why it was called Junior Leaders). Today BA infantry still have to pass a junior leader course for promotion.


http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/regiments/13236.aspx


Junior Leadership Cadre.In order to be selected to become a Lance Corporal, the Gurkha soldier has to undergo one of the toughest tests in the British Army - the Junior Leadership Cadre.

The cadre is run over six weeks and aims not only to select the battalion's future leaders, but also to train all the soldiers of a particular intake, and instill in them a sense of pride and achievement in themselves and their regiment.

The cadre involves a combination of mental and physical activity. Log races, stretcher races, combat fitness tests, endurance marches over hills and many sessions in the gym are combined with lessons on subjects ranging from leadership to tactics.

The cadre involves extensive field exercises in which students will be required to lead their team on tasks such as covert insertion, setting up a hidden observation post, clearing through an enemy trench system or just getting from A to B, in the dark, across mountains and rivers, and without being seen.

krissovo

cruasder777 wrote: »

As regards going in as a Lance Corporal, some did, (Which was why it was called Junior Leaders). Today BA infantry still have to pass a junior leader course for promotion.


http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/regiments/13236.aspx

I am afraid you have your post all mixed up. Its all factual but they way you posted it makes it a load of Cr@p.

Junior Leaders/soldiers Regiments and Junior Promotion Cadre's are two totally different entities. The Cadre is a promotion course that you attend AFTER serving in an adult unit. The junior leaders regiment is 1 year course to PREPARE underage soldiers for adult service and in particular to give them experience of junior military leadership. You cannot leave a Junior Leaders regiment as a junior NCO however the JNCO Cadre (totally different course but same content) you can but as stated you are an adult soldier when you attend.