Bus Rapid Transit planned for Dublin

monument

The Irish Independent: Rapid bus network for capital

NTA has started planning on four Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) corridors and RPA given powers now to design BRT routes.

The article says "early planning work has begun on four lines to Dublin city centre from the Stillorgan Road, Blanchardstown, Malahide and Lucan," and that the Stillorgan Road BRT could include the Blue Line proposals.

Taxis excluded -- which will be a hard one given the clout drivers have and fitting in cyclists could be as hard.

It's mostly what was proposed in the NTA's 2030 Vision: "Upgrade of four major Dublin bus corridors to high quality Bus Rapid Transit type operations – Stillorgan Road, Malahide Road, Lucan Road and Navan Road."

monument

It's not clear what exactly is planned, but 2030 vision has the following (if it's what we'll get is another thing):

Bus Rapid Transit

Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) is a high quality bus service, with high levels of priority over other traffic.

BRT characteristics typically include:

• • Very high levels of physical segregation (or full segregation) from other traffic;
• • High priority at traffic signals;
• • Measures to reduce dwell times at stops (such as multiple bus door opening and off-vehicle ticket purchase – similar to tram or train);
• • Bus stop areas adjacent to the running bus lane (at busier stops or where dwell time would affect service reliability);
• • High quality, high capacity bus vehicles;
• • More limited stopping than conventional bus;
• • High quality running surfaces; and
• • Guided vehicle technologies (in some instances)

During the period of the Strategy, it is expected that a number of the Priority 1 Quality Bus Corridors shown on Figure 10.1 will migrate to facilitate Bus
Rapid Transit (BRT) type services. These corridors have high levels of passenger demand, and as they have dedicated bus lanes over much of their length, BRT type services could provide fast and reliable journey times to the city centre.

A number of studies have been carried out in relation to provision of BRT type services on certain corridors, including the ’Blue Line’ proposal between Sandyford and St. Vincent’s Hospital. The potential for these proposals, and their integration into the wider bus priority network including BRT proposals in this Strategy, will be assessed by the Authority. Other corridors suitable for
development of, or migration to, BRT type services may be identified during the period of the Strategy and such proposals will be appropriately assessed
and evaluated at the relevant time.

The characteristics of BRT mean buses can operate in a more tram-like manner. In establishing the operation of any BRT type services, the opportunities and benefits of facilitating joint running of bus and tram vehicles on certain streets in the city centre will be assessed.

Measure BUS 7:
The Authority will explore the potential for the upgrade of some or all of the Priority 1 Quality Bus Corridors shown in Figure 10.1 to Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) type operations, taking into account passenger demand, proximity of rail alternatives, the level of bus priority that is feasible along the corridor and the suitability of the corridor for BRT type vehicle operation. It will seek the implementation of such upgrades, subject to the above considerations, and to
demonstration of value for money.

A number of studies have been carried out in relation to provision of BRT type services on certain corridors, including the ‘Blue Line’ proposal between Sandyford and Vincent’s Hospital. The potential of these proposals, and
their possible integration into the wider bus priority network, including BRT proposals in this Strategy, will be assessed by the Authority.

The Authority may also identify and assess the potential for development or upgrade of other corridors to facilitate BRT type provision.

coylemj

monument wrote: »

Taxis excluded -- which will be a hard one given the clout drivers have and fitting in cyclists could be as hard.

What 'clout' do taxi drivers have these days? Fianna Fail suddenly deferred the implementation of the rule about 9 year old cars as a cynical exercise to mop up a few votes in an act of desperation before the last election so I doubt if the FG/Labour people think they owe anything to the taxi industry.

If anything I'd say it might be payback time soon for the way the taxi drivers courted that pr1ck Ivor Callely who shamelessly canvassed on their behalf while they poured money into his election fund.

I see no reason why taxis should be allowed to use bus lanes. Why should a privately owned car be allowed to use a bus lane for no other reason than that the passenger is paying the driver? Makes no sense whatsoever.

monument

coylemj wrote: »

What 'clout' do taxi drivers have these days? Fianna Fail suddenly deferred the implementation of the rule about 9 year old cars as a cynical exercise to mop up a few votes in an act of desperation before the last election so I doubt if the FG/Labour people think they owe anything to the taxi industry.

If anything I'd say it might be payback time soon for the way the taxi drivers courted that pr1ck Ivor Callely who shamelessly canvassed on their behalf while they poured money into his election fund.

I see no reason why taxis should be allowed to use bus lanes. Why should a privately owned car be allowed to use a bus lane for no other reason than that the passenger is paying the driver? Makes no sense whatsoever.

I agree it makes no sense, and even less to allow them without passengers on board.

But have a look at the many illegal taxi ranks in the evenings and at night time.

What are there nearly 11,000 taxis in Dublin? That's clout.

coylemj

monument wrote: »

But have a look at the many illegal taxi ranks in the evenings and at night time.

Cops too busy dealing with stag and hen parties and general rowdiness to bother with something as trivial as a few taxis queuing where they shouldn't?

monument wrote: »

What are there nearly 11,000 taxis in Dublin? That's clout.

11,000 taxi drivers scattered over a city of over a million people have no clout, if they did there wouldn't be half that number of licences.

And if they had clout they wouldn't have to resort to their driving in a slow procession through the city centre because of some new grievance with the regulator.

monument

coylemj wrote: »

Cops too busy dealing with stag and hen parties and general rowdiness to bother with something as trivial as a few taxis queuing where they shouldn't?

11,000 taxi drivers scattered over a city of over a million people have no clout, if they did there wouldn't be half that number of licences.

And if they had clout they wouldn't have to resort to their driving in a slow procession through the city centre because of some new grievance with the regulator.

Not much was done when they not only drove slowly but blocked O'Connell Street off completely a number of times.

Andrew33

coylemj wrote: »

If anything I'd say it might be payback time soon for the way the taxi drivers courted that pr1ck Ivor Callely who shamelessly canvassed on their behalf while they poured money into his election fund.

I see no reason why taxis should be allowed to use bus lanes. Why should a privately owned car be allowed to use a bus lane for no other reason than that the passenger is paying the driver? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Your stupidity plumbs new depths, have you ever been in a taxi??? fare paying passengers expect and demand the taxi they are travelling in to use bus lanes.
As for your comment about drivers pouring money into Callely's election fund? If there's one thing taxi drivers hate more than paying tax it's politicians trying to suck up. There isn't a facepalm big enough to respond to your comments.

ardmacha

our stupidity plumbs new depths, have you ever been in a taxi??? fare paying passengers expect and demand the taxi they are travelling in to use bus lanes.

Fare paying passengers may like to travel in bus lanes, but if they wish to do then they should get on a bus.

coylemj

Andrew33 wrote: »

Your stupidity plumbs new depths, have you ever been in a taxi??? fare paying passengers expect and demand the taxi they are travelling in to use bus lanes.

Just because they can (use the bus lane) isn't justification for why they do. Taxis are allowed to use the bus lanes because that simpleton Sean Dublin Bay Loftus caved in to a charm offensive from the taxi drivers.

Proper use of bus lanes would say that they can only be used by cars if there is at least the driver plus two passengers and that would apply to taxis as well as private cars.

I get a bus into town on Saturdays to meet friends, it really p1sses me off when sitting on the bus going home to see some knob sailing home in a taxi along the bus lane just because he can afford it and I can't. Justify that please.

Andrew33 wrote: »

As for your comment about drivers pouring money into Callely's election fund? If there's one thing taxi drivers hate more than paying tax it's politicians trying to suck up. There isn't a facepalm big enough to respond to your comments.

I think at this stage we know enough about Ivor Callely to know that he wasn't supporting the taxi lobby just because he agreed with them.

-Chris-

Andrew33 wrote: »

Your stupidity plumbs new depths, have you ever been in a taxi???

Attack the post, not the poster please.

the groutch

Measures to reduce dwell times at stops (such as multiple bus door opening and off-vehicle ticket purchase – similar to tram or train)

have they learned nothing from the Luas Red Line?

dowlingm

those of us with longer memories will recall FG getting in bed with taxi drivers a while back and it doing not a damn bit of good for them.

as for QBCs - need a repeat performance of what the Mayor of Vilnius did to that Merc as an object lesson to the entitled of Dublin who think nothing of blocking bus lanes. Any Defence Forces people on here and if so is a Mowag heavy enough to do a similar job?

In any case, if FG-Lab flood An Lar with buses aren't we just going to have the same old arguments about buses idling at the end of their routes all through the city?

thebman

TBH I don't see much of a problem with taxi drivers using bus lanes but they should have to make way for buses.

I'd rather they weren't left empty just because no buses were around.

CIE

Hilarious. The QBC network was originally supposed to be a BRT of sorts. How many times are they going to think of a new way to repackage what they couldn't get right back in the early 90s? (Or is this a kind of "RPA watch your back" tactic?)

dermo88

Is it just me, or am I alone in having a dislike for an excessive dependency on buses in Dublin?

I just think that buses are a cheap, nasty, and inefficient method of mass transit, it refuses to acknowledge the long term needs of the city.

They work in low density areas. The transformation in public transport perception brought by Luas shows whats possible.

Meanwhile, I have a genetic memory of Dublin Bus as being overpriced for what it does, particularly when compared with the fare levels in other European cities. Dublin Bus is a bloody ripoff.

robd

dermo88 wrote: »

Is it just me, or am I alone in having a dislike for an excessive dependency on buses in Dublin?

I just think that buses are a cheap, nasty, and inefficient method of mass transit, it refuses to acknowledge the long term needs of the city.

They work in low density areas. The transformation in public transport perception brought by Luas shows whats possible.

Meanwhile, I have a genetic memory of Dublin Bus as being overpriced for what it does, particularly when compared with the fare levels in other European cities. Dublin Bus is a bloody ripoff.

I agree bus is a poor substitute for Luas. Success of Luas speaks for itself.

I'd prefer that they look at buses separately and look at what they can do to improve service rather than a bastardized replacement for Luas.

A lot could be achieved with buses if they took a proper look at the secondary QBC's. Chop down trees, CPO gardens and buildings at road pinch points. Straighten out roads where necessary. QBC should be on both sides on all major roads. The Malahide Road, Howth Road and Druncondra roads spring to mind as have assed QBC's despite major recent spending to fix pinch points.

I've no problem with Taxi's in QBC's or other Bus Lanes. The reality is they aren't fully utilized and the space is there. There's not that many Taxi's on the road during morning rush hour. Motorcyclists should be allowed in for the same reason, and it's safer than having them filter through traffic.

AlekSmart

dermo88 wrote: »

Is it just me, or am I alone in having a dislike for an excessive dependency on buses in Dublin?

Meanwhile, I have a genetic memory of Dublin Bus as being overpriced for what it does, particularly when compared with the fare levels in other European cities. Dublin Bus is a bloody ripoff.

I think Dermo88's genes may be a little behind the action in regard to pricing.

Many major European capitals are socially funded to a far greater level than Dublin Bus currently is (with more cuts soon).

Try to find a €1.20 fare (or a City Centre .50c Fare) in a major capital and you'll be struggling.

Take Paris for example.

Single cash fare bought on bus (No Transfer possible) €1.90
Single t+ Ticket bought off-bus (90 Min transfer window) €1.70
Carnet of ten t+ Tickets,off bus. €12.50

No huge difference in the on-bus cash transaction fare so beloved of Dubliners......or is there....remember that €1.90 is the flat fare...so most of my customers would be looking at a very steep rise in their fare level.

However it is in the area of off-bus discounting where the European model really kicks-ass.....that €1.90 drops alarmingly to €1.25 IF you buy a carnet of 10 tickets off-bus......Way to Go !

Interestingly enough finding ordinary Fare information on thne RATP site is quite difficult,especially when using the English translation...they want you using the premium priced Paris Visite product.

London cash Bus fare when you can get it is £2.20 :eek:

Every city is different in many ways but a sweeping generalization that Dublin Bus is expensive just does'nt stand up IMO.

markpb

robd wrote: »

I've no problem with Taxi's in QBC's or other Bus Lanes. The reality is they aren't fully utilized and the space is there. There's not that many Taxi's on the road during morning rush hour. Motorcyclists should be allowed in for the same reason, and it's safer than having them filter through traffic.

I used to think the same until the taxi strike a few years ago. All the taxis were camped out at the airport and St. Stephens Green and it the impact it had on Dublin Bus operations was impossible to describe. Buses were always at the head of the queue at traffic lights, they didn't have to brake suddenly because a taxi had moved suddenly into the bus lane or negotiate their way out of the bus lane to get around a taxi.

Bus lanes work precisely because they appear to be under-utilised. If there is traffic in them (even of the public hire variety), they slow down bus operations.

LaFlammeRouge

AlekSmart wrote: »

Try to find a €1.20 fare (or a City Centre .50c Fare) in a major capital and you'll be struggling.

Manchester has free city centre buses. (government funded)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metroshuttle


I agree that measures are needed to curb taxi use of bus lanes. We should get London style taxi's. Then people would have to fork out a lot of capital in order to start their business and it will cut down the numbers. Large fines for taxi's using the bus lanes when no passengers are present.

namloc1980

AlekSmart wrote: »

I think Dermo88's genes may be a little behind the action in regard to pricing.

Many major European capitals are socially funded to a far greater level than Dublin Bus currently is (with more cuts soon).

Try to find a €1.20 fare (or a City Centre .50c Fare) in a major capital and you'll be struggling.

Take Paris for example.

Single cash fare bought on bus (No Transfer possible) €1.90
Single t+ Ticket bought off-bus (90 Min transfer window) €1.70
Carnet of ten t+ Tickets,off bus. €12.50

No huge difference in the on-bus cash transaction fare so beloved of Dubliners......or is there....remember that €1.90 is the flat fare...so most of my customers would be looking at a very steep rise in their fare level.

However it is in the area of off-bus discounting where the European model really kicks-ass.....that €1.90 drops alarmingly to €1.25 IF you buy a carnet of 10 tickets off-bus......Way to Go !

Interestingly enough finding ordinary Fare information on thne RATP site is quite difficult,especially when using the English translation...they want you using the premium priced Paris Visite product.

London cash Bus fare when you can get it is £2.20 :eek:

Every city is different in many ways but a sweeping generalization that Dublin Bus is expensive just does'nt stand up IMO.

The vast majority of London bus journeys are paid via oyster card at £1.30 flat fare across the whole of London. Very few people pay cash apart from tourists, also unlimited daily bus travel in London is capped at £4 whereas a DB one day rambler is €6.20. So dublin is certainly more expensive than London.

SteM

namloc1980 wrote: »

The vast majority of London bus journeys are paid via oyster card at £1.30 flat fare across the whole of London. Very few people pay cash apart from tourists, also unlimited daily bus travel in London is capped at £4 whereas a DB one day rambler is €6.20. So dublin is certainly more expensive than London.

I have a 5 day rambler ticket in my wallet that can be used on 5 non-consecutive days and it costs €22. That's €4.40 per day so if you're going to compare pre-pay tickets it's only fair that you include all the options available here. £4 = €4.55ish at the moment?

robd

namloc1980 wrote: »

The vast majority of London bus journeys are paid via oyster card at £1.30 flat fare across the whole of London. Very few people pay cash apart from tourists, also unlimited daily bus travel in London is capped at £4 whereas a DB one day rambler is €6.20. So dublin is certainly more expensive than London.

That's kind of the problem with Dublin though. Fare structures mostly go back to god knows what time. Victorian maybe. DOT need to hit them over the head when Integrated Ticketing Smartcard is ready to roll out and introduce decent daily capping etc. They removed 10 journeys and other decent tickets due to fare evasion, rather than upping inspections. Same rubbish with single entry doors.

Minimum normal cash fare (city centre fare aside) should probably be upped to €2.

namloc1980

SteM wrote: »

I have a 5 day rambler ticket in my wallet that can be used on 5 non-consecutive days and it costs €22. That's €4.40 per day so if you're going to compare pre-pay tickets it's only fair that you include all the options available here. £4 = €4.55ish at the moment?

Fair enough. 7 day Bus & Tram pass is £17.80 in London or about €2.90 a day. can you use the rambler on Luas?? Didn't think so. The equivalent in Dublin costs €4.30 per day.

Run_to_da_hills

They should have held on to the bendys.

Best type of bus for direct point to point journeys and QBC's, hold more passengers, more doors etc.

Dyr

dermo88 wrote: »

Is it just me, or am I alone in having a dislike for an excessive dependency on buses in Dublin?

I just think that buses are a cheap, nasty, and inefficient method of mass transit, it refuses to acknowledge the long term needs of the city.

They work in low density areas. The transformation in public transport perception brought by Luas shows whats possible.

Meanwhile, I have a genetic memory of Dublin Bus as being overpriced for what it does, particularly when compared with the fare levels in other European cities. Dublin Bus is a bloody ripoff.

Dublin needs a underground transport system, however that would require a far sighted government. More bloody buses are the equivalent of kicking to touch for another decade. They don't work, they've never worked, and we will continue trying the same thing over and hoping for a different result.

Sulmac

Within regards to the Dublin Bus fare structure, I agree it's a disaster but I also noticed this yesterday on the updated 'Transport for Ireland' website:

Customers will simply touch their card to a reader at the gate or point of entry and exit (entry only on bus), benefiting from improved convenience and speed in the ticketing process.

To me, this either means one of two things -

1) A flat fare for those who use the new smart card, if they haven't 'added' other 'cards' (e.g. a 30-day pass) to it.

...or...

2) You'll have to tell the driver where you're going to allow them to deduct the appropriate fare. :eek:

I'm hopeful that it's the first one (given that all current smart cards work this way), but with Dublin Bus you never know (although the NTA are controlling this, so more reason for hope).

shannon_tek

• Very high levels of physical segregation (or full segregation) from other traffic;
• High priority at traffic signals;
• Measures to reduce dwell times at stops (such as multiple bus door opening and off-vehicle ticket purchase – similar to tram or train);
• Bus stop areas adjacent to the running bus lane (at busier stops or where dwell time would affect service reliability);
• High quality, high capacity bus vehicles;
• More limited stopping than conventional bus;
• High quality running surfaces; and
• Guided vehicle technologies (in some instances)

I see this on the 17A Two doors jam packed bus but only one door used WT?
Bit stupid those buses are 90's and they have double doors yet the 03 buses and up dont. and its a system which should been in ages ago. in some parts of London there are bus drives that open those doors first and then open the boarding doors after closing the exit doors.

coylemj

Sulmac wrote: »

To me, this either means one of two things -

1) A flat fare for those who use the new smart card, if they haven't 'added' other 'cards' (e.g. a 30-day pass) to it.

Looks like this will be the case for bus trips. Variable fares for bus trips using a smart card would be a disaster because it would require you to 'tag off' like the Oyster card in London or the Dart smart card here. All you'd need is one exiting passenger with a faulty card and there would be chaos with people behind him with smart cards queuing to get off and the people getting on would start boarding and jam up the aisle.

Sulmac wrote: »

2) You'll have to tell the driver where you're going to allow them to deduct the appropriate fare. :eek:

This would completely defeat the purpose of smart cards, it won't happen (emoticon of fingers crossed).

Sulmac

shannon_tek wrote: »

I see this on the 17A Two doors jam packed bus but only one door used WT?
Bit stupid those buses are 90's and they have double doors yet the 03 buses and up dont. and its a system which should been in ages ago. in some parts of London there are bus drives that open those doors first and then open the boarding doors after closing the exit doors.

I think they should go further and have 3-door buses like in Berlin:

Sulmac

coylemj wrote: »

This would completely defeat the purpose of smart cards, it won't happen (emoticon of fingers crossed).

I know, but it is Dublin Bus we're dealing with here.

namloc1980

coylemj wrote: »

Looks like this will be the case for bus trips. Variable fares for bus trips using a smart card would be a disaster because it would require you to 'tag off' like the Oyster card in London or the Dart smart card here. All you'd need is one exiting passenger with a faulty card and there would be chaos with people behind him with smart cards queuing to get off and the people getting on would start boarding and jam up the aisle.



This would completely defeat the purpose of smart cards, it won't happen (emoticon of fingers crossed).

Buses in London only require tag-on using Oyster. It's a flat fare all across London on the bus. The Tube and rail services do require tag-on and tag-off though.

coylemj

namloc1980 wrote: »

Buses in London only require tag-on using Oyster. It's a flat fare all across London on the bus. The Tube and rail services do require tag-on and tag-off though.

Of course, you're right. I only use the Oyster on the tube.

murphaph

robd wrote: »

That's kind of the problem with Dublin though. Fare structures mostly go back to god knows what time. Victorian maybe. DOT need to hit them over the head when Integrated Ticketing Smartcard is ready to roll out and introduce decent daily capping etc.

The fare structures certainly don't go back to the Victorians. They actually had it right...Dublin had an extensive ZONAL FARE tram network. It was simple to understand. It was CIE and various DoTs and the ministers that run them that fcuked it all up after the DUTC was absorbed (destroyed) by CIE.

The DoT are the main problem (well them and general government policy towards public transport). Ireland is still a rural dominated society and "culchies" (for want of a better word) resent urban areas getting subsidised public transport, so it's not popular politically. CIE of course does itself no favours and has earned its dreadful reputation.

The DoT would have to ask the DoF first about any fare capping as the shortfall would have to be made up in an increased taxpayer subsidy (see above). Ireland truly is a wretched place sometimes. The urban areas generate the lion's share of the wealth but get very little back for it.

shannon_tek

Sulmac wrote: »

I think they should go further and have 3-door buses like in Berlin:

That is the best invention ever. But of course it's Ireland Never ever going to happen. But we can dream cant we?

Dyr

Sulmac wrote: »

I think they should go further and have 3-door buses like in Berlin:

So the drivers have a choice of two doors to completely ignore

Monty Burnz

dermo88 wrote: »

They work in low density areas. The transformation in public transport perception brought by Luas shows whats possible.

Unfortunately, Dublin is a low density city. You travel 3 miles from the centre of most cities, and you are looking at mostly apartment buildings. Not even 3 miles from the centre of Dublin, it's 90% houses with gardens.

markpb

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Unfortunately, Dublin is a low density city. You travel 3 miles from the centre of most cities, and you are looking at mostly apartment buildings. Not even 3 miles from the centre of Dublin, it's 90% houses with gardens.

This keeps getting posted here and people keep rebutting it with CSO figures that show Dublin City has a comparable density to lots of other European cities. The three counties (Fingal, South and Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown) in the Dublin metro area have a lower density which drags down the overall but its still not as bad as people think. The area inside the canals is higher than Amsterdam for example.

charlemont

We all know that this Bus Rapid Transit will be a joke anyway, Public transport in Ireland is comedy.

AlekSmart

Bambi wrote: »

So the drivers have a choice of two doors to completely ignore

I love the Bus endet Hier bit.....loose translation of Ár Leithsceal-Ás Serbhís...?

Whats the German for Sorry ....?

the groutch

Bambi wrote: »

So the drivers have a choice of two doors to completely ignore

or two doors for scumbags to use to ride the bus free like with the Luas

markpb

the groutch wrote: »

or two doors for scumbags to use to ride the bus free like with the Luas

I'd be okay with tens of thousands of people benefiting from the improved service that having multiple doors offer, if it means that a few people travel for free.

murphaph

AlekSmart wrote: »

I love the Bus endet Hier bit.....loose translation of Ár Leithsceal-Ás Serbhís...?

Whats the German for Sorry ....?

lol, Germans rarely say sorry! It's an admission that you were wrong in the first place

As for more doors = more scumbags riding for free, well, tis true but it's just symptomatic of a much wider problem in Irish society that must be faced up to by decent people.

Scumbags should not dictate our transport policy. We should really have introduced a national ID card years ago with a legal compulsion to carry it upon pain of arrest. What this means is that scumbags and other ne'er do wells can be fined and if they don't have the ID then it is a criminal offence that the guards can arrest them for.

Decent people can benefit from a proper ID card (linked to current address!) that simplifies opening bank accounts etc. It also makes it more difficult for debtors to simply disappear with money they owe you!

In Berlin ticket checkers are all plain clothes and often burly lads. They wait until the train doors close (there are no barriers on any German public transport that I know of) and pounce, 2 guys to a carriage working from both ends towards the middle. Your only hope of escape is if they catch someone else first and even then they will often carry on and go back to the other guy. They will demand an ID (pretty much all Germans carry their's despite it not actually being a legal requirement, the law just requires that you can satisfactorily identify yourself to the police if asked) and if it's not presented the police will be called, either the city or federal (federal police have jurisdiction on the railways) and they will simply arrest you if you refuse to identify yourself.

We need a zero tolerance policy in Ireland. We need scumbags to fear being caught fare evading on the Luas, not decent people fearing being hassled by same scumbags.

Dyr

We need to have dublin bus take responsibility for the safety and security of their service, like veolia do on the luas.


The scumbags on my route actually know which drivers will let them on for free.

murphaph

Bambi wrote: »

We need to have dublin bus take responsibility for the safety and security of their service, like veolia do on the luas.


The scumbags on my route actually know which drivers will let them on for free.

I don't use the Luas but from reading these forums it seems Veolia don't do much towards the scumbags and assorted drug addicts that frequent the red line.

There's only so much the transport operator can do anyway. It's a societal problem. If people are acting unsociably, other members of society should be able to tell them to cop on. If people aren't prepared to do that then I think it's a bit unfair of them to expect a bus driver to stand up for them.

I do believe however that the day security screens started to be installed on buses was the day Irish society waved the white flag to a minority of scummers. Bus drivers in Berlin don't have to cower behind a screen and still handle cash and any assaults/robberies of bus drivers are taken extremely seriously here.

coylemj

Last time I was on the Luas the security guys were going around in threes on the tram and that was during the daytime plus when the tram stopped at Jervis St. they did nothing to assist the tourists at the ticket machine who were being harassed by begging Irish druggies and Roma girls.

Monty Burnz

markpb wrote: »

This keeps getting posted here and people keep rebutting it with CSO figures that show Dublin City has a comparable density to lots of other European cities. The three counties (Fingal, South and Dun Laoghaire/Rathdown) in the Dublin metro area have a lower density which drags down the overall but its still not as bad as people think. The area inside the canals is higher than Amsterdam for example.

Unfortunately, the three areas you mention are most of Dublin, and it's where most people actually live. The area inside the canals represents a very small part of Dublin - perhaps 10%? (without actually working it out...;)) There's no point in putting a metro system in place if people have to walk 30 minutes to get to a stop - they simply won't do it.

Dyr

murphaph wrote: »

I don't use the Luas but from reading these forums it seems Veolia don't do much towards the scumbags and assorted drug addicts that frequent the red line.

There's only so much the transport operator can do anyway

There might be only so much that a transport operator can do but dublin don't even do that. I don't use the luas much but they actually have security on the luas, straight out they have 100% better security than dublin bus. And judging by the thread over in AH they do a decent job of it.

And yes it is a social problem but the operator has to shoulder some responsibility for the well being of their passengers.

Cool Mo D

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Unfortunately, the three areas you mention are most of Dublin, and it's where most people actually live. The area inside the canals represents a very small part of Dublin - perhaps 10%? (without actually working it out...;)) There's no point in putting a metro system in place if people have to walk 30 minutes to get to a stop - they simply won't do it.

Dublin city council has over 500,000 people living in it, almost as much as the other 3 combined, so I'm not really sure what your point is. All of Dublin city council is high density, and everywhere inside the M50 is pretty high too.

markpb

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Unfortunately, the three areas you mention are most of Dublin, and it's where most people actually live. The area inside the canals represents a very small part of Dublin - perhaps 10%? (without actually working it out...;)) There's no point in putting a metro system in place if people have to walk 30 minutes to get to a stop - they simply won't do it.

In 2003, Dublin had comparable density to Amsterdam and Copenhagen. In 2007, Dublin had almost the same density as Munich and Rome (http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/largest-cities-density-125.html) and a higher density than New York, San Francisco and Los Angeles (all of which have underground metro systems). I don't buy this low density crap - people have had it fed to them and now they believe it even though the figures prove otherwise.

If people live in a housing estate many miles from Dublin, they're in in suburban hell which will never have good public transport. It doesn't mean that the rest of us should suffer because of their poor choices. You can't keep everyone happy.

LXFlyer

Bambi wrote: »

There might be only so much that a transport operator can do but dublin don't even do that. I don't use the luas much but they actually have security on the luas, straight out they have 100% better security than dublin bus. And judging by the thread over in AH they do a decent job of it.

And yes it is a social problem but the operator has to shoulder some responsibility for the well being of their passengers.

With nearly 1,000 buses it would be impossible for Dublin Bus to replicate the Veolia set up.

However every single bus is fitted with multiple CCTV cameras and these have I believe been very effective in identifying and aiding the prosecution of troublemakers.

Dyr

No it wouldn't, you'd just need a small fleet of cars with security staff covering the more "troubled" routes.

I've been involved in two fracas on dublin buses in recent years and the driver has never showed an interest in cctv or anything else other than pulling over to let the culprits off.