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Fine Gael's Brian Hayes proposes to re-erect British imperial monuments in Dublin.
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24-09-2011 10:37am#1Aside from being ineffably embarrassing to educated Irish people, this is a crazy, lunatic idea. It could only be somebody as disconnected and ideologically driven as Brian Hayes who would propose it. Scarily, he now holds the state finances to carry out his proposal.
I just read this in a single line in yesterday's Irish Times article on the Phoenix Park here: "The OPW is to pursue the return of two statues by sculptor John Henry Foley blown up by the IRA.".
For OPW read Brian Hayes, the ideological Fine Gael minister in charge of that office now who has a very long history as a supporter of John Bruton and who, before joining Fine Gael, was a member of Democratic Left entirely because of the anti-republican views of de Rossa (Source). Now, in power it seems Hayes wants to spend our money re-erecting statues that glorify the British Empire. The last imperial statue re-erected was that of Britain's Queen Victoria/the Famine Queen in Dún Laoghaire in 2003 at a cost of some €500,000.
The statues in question are:
1. The Carlisle Memorial: It was erected in 1870 and blown up by in 1958. This is what remains of Carlisle's statue in Dublin's Phoenix Park today. Dedicated to the British Lord Lieutenant George William Frederick Howard, seventh earl of Carlisle (1802–1864).
2. The Gough memorial: This was hugely controversial even before it was erected. It was attacked on several occasions. Following one such attack in 1957 the monument was removed and today is in the possession of a relative of Gough who spent a fortune restoring it in Chillingham Castle in England. This is it there today. Hayes wants to buy this and re-erect it in the Phoenix Park.
Here's one account of the background to the erection of the Gough monument in 1880:
"The statue has had a troubled history. At the time of his death in 1869, Gough's friends felt that since he was born in Co. Limmerick and, when not on military service, had always lived in his native land, a statue on a prominent site in Dublin was appropriate, at either Carlisle Bridge, Foster Place or Westmoreland Road. However, the Dublin Corporation was reluctant to commemorate a servant of the empire who had gained the nickname the 'Hammer of the Sikhs', and vetoed each of these suggestions. .... Once finished the statue's problems continued. A site was found for it in Phoenix Park, Dublin, but at the time of the inauguration there was a strong feeling that it would have been more suitably erected in London. This was reinforced by the inauguration ceremony at which so many soldiers were present that the Duke of Malborough, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, was prompted to remark that the Park looked like the 'Champs de Mars of Dublin'. Once in place, because it was subsequently seen as a celebration of empire, the statue was physically attacked on a number of occasions. On Christmas Eve 1944 the rider was beheaded and his sword removed. In November 1956 the right hind leg of the horse was blown off and then finally, at 12.45am on Monday 3rd July 1957, the whole statue was hurled from its base by a huge explosion, the work of experts in plastic bombing brought in from France by the I.R.A. Following this, for the next 29 years, the base remained in place in Phoenix Park while the statue itself was kept in storage by the Office of Public Works at the Royal Hospital, Kilmainham. (Photographs exist of Gough's severed head sitting in a cupboard.) Eventually, in August 1986, the statue was sold to Robert Guinness of Straffan, Co. Kildare for a sum believed to be £1000 or less, on the condition, according to the Irish Times, that it left Ireland. In 1988, it came into the possession of its present owner, a distant relative of Gough, who had it painstakingly restored by the Newcastle blacksmiths, J. S. Lunn and Sons and re-erected at his newly acquired home, Chillingham Castle, in 1990. The statue is now once again complete except for the 18cm high base of the pedestal."
Aside from using remarkably obtuse military tactics, Field Marshal Sir Hugh Gough, first Viscount Gough, had an infamous reputation for his savagery and brutality towards what he deemed to be "inferior" populations. The nickname mentioned above - "Hammer of the Sikhs" - was given because of his brutality when conquering the Punjab on behalf the British East India Company/British Empire. Gough had also been a significant figure in the First Opium Wars defending British drug producers and merchants against the Chinese who were trying to stop opium getting into China.
So much more about this guy, suffice to say that he should not be honoured in Ireland in 2011, for many of the same reasons Dublin Corporation voted not to erect a statue to him back in the 1870s.
Anyway TLDR: Do you think an Irish government should be re-erecting monuments in Ireland which commemorate British imperial figures?Do you think an Irish government should re-erect statues to British imperial heroes? 38 votes
Yes0%No100%
38 votes
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NoAt the time of his death in 1869, Gough's friends felt that since he was born in Co. Limmerick and, when not on military service, had always lived in his native land, a statue on a prominent site in Dublin was appropriate
Makes no sense to me at all
And while he's from Co Limerick, it pretty much Waterford.
You have the choice of Limerick or Waterford and it made sense to use Dublin
Give it to our friends in the Mid West or South East if it's going ahead0 -
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Aside from being ineffably embarrassing to educated Irish people, this is a crazy, lunatic idea. It could only be somebody as disconnected and ideologically driven as Brian Hayes who would propose it. Scarily, he now holds the state finances to carry out his proposal.
I just read this in a single line in yesterday's Irish Times article on the Phoenix Park here: "The OPW is to pursue the return of two statues by sculptor John Henry Foley blown up by the IRA.".
For OPW read Brian Hayes, the ideological Fine Gael minister in charge of that office now who has a very long history as a supporter of John Bruton and who, before joining Fine Gael, was a member of Democratic Left entirely because of the anti-republican views of de Rossa (Source). Now, in power it seems Hayes wants to spend our money re-erecting statues that glorify the British Empire. The last imperial statue re-erected was that of Britain's Queen Victoria/the Famine Queen in Dún Laoghaire in 2003 at a cost of some €500,000.
The statues in question are:
1. The Carlisle Memorial: It was erected in 1870 and blown up by in 1958. This is what remains of Carlisle's statue in Dublin's Phoenix Park today. Dedicated to the British Lord Lieutenant George William Frederick Howard, seventh earl of Carlisle (1802–1864).
2. The Gough memorial: This was hugely controversial even before it was erected. It was attacked on several occasions. Following one such attack in 1957 the monument was removed and today is in the possession of a relative of Gough who spent a fortune restoring it in Chillingham Castle in England. This is it there today. Hayes wants to buy this and re-erect it in the Phoenix Park.
Here's one account of the background to the erection of the Gough monument in 1880:
"The statue has had a troubled history. At the time of his death in 1869, Gough's friends felt that since he was born in Co. Limmerick and, when not on military service, had always lived in his native land, a statue on a prominent site in Dublin was appropriate, at either Carlisle Bridge, Foster Place or Westmoreland Road. However, the Dublin Corporation was reluctant to commemorate a servant of the empire who had gained the nickname the 'Hammer of the Sikhs', and vetoed each of these suggestions. .... Once finished the statue's problems continued. A site was found for it in Phoenix Park, Dublin, but at the time of the inauguration there was a strong feeling that it would have been more suitably erected in London. This was reinforced by the inauguration ceremony at which so many soldiers were present that the Duke of Malborough, Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, was prompted to remark that the Park looked like the 'Champs de Mars of Dublin'. Once in place, because it was subsequently seen as a celebration of empire, the statue was physically attacked on a number of occasions. On Christmas Eve 1944 the rider was beheaded and his sword removed. In November 1956 the right hind leg of the horse was blown off and then finally, at 12.45am on Monday 3rd July 1957, the whole statue was hurled from its base by a huge explosion, the work of experts in plastic bombing brought in from France by the I.R.A. Following this, for the next 29 years, the base remained in place in Phoenix Park while the statue itself was kept in storage by the Office of Public Works at the Royal Hospital, Kilmainham. (Photographs exist of Gough's severed head sitting in a cupboard.) Eventually, in August 1986, the statue was sold to Robert Guinness of Straffan, Co. Kildare for a sum believed to be £1000 or less, on the condition, according to the Irish Times, that it left Ireland. In 1988, it came into the possession of its present owner, a distant relative of Gough, who had it painstakingly restored by the Newcastle blacksmiths, J. S. Lunn and Sons and re-erected at his newly acquired home, Chillingham Castle, in 1990. The statue is now once again complete except for the 18cm high base of the pedestal."
Aside from using remarkably obtuse military tactics, Field Marshal Sir Hugh Gough, first Viscount Gough, had an infamous reputation for his savagery and brutality towards what he deemed to be "inferior" populations. The nickname mentioned above - "Hammer of the Sikhs" - was given because of his brutality when conquering the Punjab on behalf the British East India Company/British Empire. Gough had also been a significant figure in the First Opium Wars defending British drug producers and merchants against the Chinese who were trying to stop opium getting into China.
So much more about this guy, suffice to say that he should not be honoured in Ireland in 2011, for many of the same reasons Dublin Corporation voted not to erect a statue to him back in the 1870s.
Anyway TLDR: Do you think an Irish government should be re-erecting monuments in Ireland which commemorate British imperial figures?
I don't suppose there would be much point talking to people like you about restoration of historical buildings or preserving our artistic & cultural heritage?
Try something useful eg learn how to make a bib.
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Sonnenblumen wrote: »I don't suppose there would be much point talking to people like you about restoration of historical buildings or preserving our artistic & cultural heritage?
Try something useful eg learn how to make a bib.
I vaguely recollect from previous posts that the OP is one of the (relatively few) people in Ireland who had enough respect for history to complete a PhD in it. If true, that's a lot of egg on your face.0 -
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