Bus Lanes - No time shown?

I searched the forum for a few minutes, but couldn't find anything.

What are the situations when bus lanes have no time posted? Are the not bus lanes at all or are th 24 hr buslanes?

Ones I noticed are in Blanchardstown centre. If I drive in these, can I be fined, even though there is no times posted??

Thanks.

CiniO

Deleted User wrote: »

I searched the forum for a few minutes, but couldn't find anything.

What are the situations when bus lanes have no time posted? Are the not bus lanes at all or are th 24 hr buslanes?

Ones I noticed are in Blanchardstown centre. If I drive in these, can I be fined, even though there is no times posted??

Thanks.

If there is no times shown, it means that it's a bus lane at all times.

If you are driving anything else than a bus, bicycle or taxi, you can be fined for using them·

That wasn't the reply I wanted, but thanks for clarification, CiniO.

Midnight_EG

Deleted User wrote: »

That wasn't the reply I wanted, but thanks for clarification, CiniO.

What is the reply you wanted then?

Midnight_EG

Midnight_EG wrote: »

What is the reply you wanted then?

Well, I was kind of hoping, that since no times are posted, you could argue that it's nots a bus lane at any times. Seen a few posts online that says you can argue it.

Won't be driving in them anymore now.

Midnight_EG

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, I was kind of hoping, that since no times are posted, you could argue that it's nots a bus lane at any times. Seen a few posts online that says you can argue it.

Won't be driving in them anymore now.

Kinda says Bus Lane in big white writing on it though, with a single white line on it too...

Bodhran

My understanding is that, if there are no signs indicating the times of the bus lane, then the lane is not, in effect, a bus lane. If there are no signs up, then I always use those "bus lanes" and I always use genuine bus lanes outside the designated times. However, I find that most drivers seem to think that ALL bus lanes are 24 hour bus lanes.

Permanent bus lanes always have a sign saying "24 hours"

This is what the Rules of the Road say:

Bus lanes

Bus lanes are sections of road reserved for buses, whether public or private. Taxis and bicycles may also use some bus lanes.

Where there is a bus lane, you will see an upright blue and white sign on the side of the road on a pole and on the roadway there will be markings of a continuous white line and the words "Lána Bus". You must obey the road marking and the sign. The white plate shows when the section of road is meant only for the buses shown. Normally bus lanes operate from 7am to 7pm or during peak hours. Outside these times, all traffic may use them. You should check the information plate to confirm the time limits that apply.

Bodhran

Bodhran wrote: »

My understanding is that, if there are no signs indicating the times of the bus lane, then the lane is not, in effect, a bus lane. If there are no signs up, then I always use those "bus lanes" and I always genuine bus lanes outside the designated times. However, I find that most drivers seem to think that ALL bus lanes are 24 hour bus lanes.

Permanent bus lanes always have a sign saying "24 hours"

This is what the Rules of the Road say:

Bus lanes

Bus lanes are sections of road reserved for buses, whether public or private. Taxis and bicycles may also use some bus lanes.

Where there is a bus lane, you will see an upright blue and white sign on the side of the road on a pole and on the roadway there will be markings of a continuous white line and the words "Lána Bus". You must obey the road marking and the sign. The white plate shows when the section of road is meant only for the buses shown. Normally bus lanes operate from 7am to 7pm or during peak hours. Outside these times, all traffic may use them. You should check the information plate to confirm the time limits that apply.

Yeah I was thinking something like that too. Thanks.

So according to the ROTR, since there is no time specifying when only bus can use it, anyone can drive in it?

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/traffic-signs-road-markings/buses.html

Bodhran

Well I would argue that if the rules stipulate two requirements for a bus lane i.e an upright blue and white sign on the side of the road on a pole AND on the roadway there will be markings... then, if one of these prerequisites is missing, then it's not a bus lane!

Bodhran

To confirm one way or the other, I'll send an e-mail to the Garda Traffic Bureau to see what they have to say. I'll post the reply.

Yawns

What the hell is the deal with some of these bus lanes as 24 hour ones when only 1 bus route ever uses them and only about 4 times the entire day at that. Someone in the local councils need to do a rethink on some roads.

This is one example.

This road is 60 k/m speed limit with no houses nearby until the far end of the road, which is walled and traffic signal controlled. It is restricted to one lane which is 24 hours but no public bus operates. It's not a very busy road apart from the regular garda checkpoints for revenue purposes. What's even better at the section next to the residents area, there's 2 different speed limits. On the side where there is more chance of residents walking, the speed limit is 60. But where there is less likely to be people walking, the speed limit is 50.

http://g.co/maps/29vxf

CiniO

Bodhran wrote: »

Well I would argue that if the rules stipulate two requirements for a bus lane i.e an upright blue and white sign on the side of the road on a pole AND on the roadway there will be markings... then, if one of these prerequisites is missing, then it's not a bus lane!

You are probably right with it, but OP was not asking about such case.

CiniO

Bodhran wrote: »

To confirm one way or the other, I'll send an e-mail to the Garda Traffic Bureau to see what they have to say. I'll post the reply.

Go for it...

But anyway rules are pretty clear.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/si/0358.html#zzsi358y1980

A quote from above:

"bus lane" means a part of a roadway marked with the roadway markings referred to in article 4 and provided with the regulatory traffic sign referred to in article 5 of these Regulations

That confirms what Bodhran wrote about requirement for both upright sign and roadway markings (see below)

4. The roadway markings to indicate a bus lane shall consist of—


( a ) a continuous white line or lines 250 millimetres wide save where one edge of the bus lane coincides with the centre line of a roadway between the bus lane and an adjoining traffic lane and,


( b ) lettering the dimensions and design of which shall be as set out in the First Schedule to these Regulations.

5. (1) The Regulatory traffic sign to indicate a bus lane and, in the case of sign C, to indicate the direction in which vehicles using the bus lane shall proceed shall be any one of the signs set out in the Second Schedule to these Regulations and, notwithstanding the provisions of article 8 of the Principal Regulations, shall consist of a blue rectangle with the appropriate symbols shown in white.

Going further through definition of bus lane:

in which classes of vehicles other than omnibuses, classes of vehicles set out in bye-laws relating to the bus lane and, where sign A or B referred to in the Second Schedule to these Regulations is provided in conjunction with a bus lane, pedal bicycles, are prohibited or are prohibited between the times indicated on a plate provided in accordance with article 5 (2) of these Regulations.

So here you can see, that most vehicles are prohibited from using bus lanes, at all or at the times indicated on a plate provided in accordance with article 5 (2) which is below.

(2) The signs set out in the Second Schedule to these Regulations may be accompanied by a rectangular plate which shall be placed below the sign and on which is shown in black letters on a white ground information in regard to the prohibition referred to in article 3 of these Regulations including the days and hours when the prohibition applies.

If it says that sign may be accompanied by a plate with hours, it doesn't mean that this plate is compulsory.
If there is no plate, all vehicles mentioned in "bus lane" definition as prohibited are prohibited at all times.


For me it's really very clear, and it answers OP's question.

Bodhran

This is the reply I got from the Garda Traffic Bureau regarding bus lanes.
Hi
I made further enquiries around here and you're right a bus lane to be in operation shall be indicated by regulatory bus lane signs RUS 028 or RUS 029 in association with traffic sign number RRM 024 as per Article 32 of the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations 1997 to 2004
Apologies for misleading you in my original response, you learn something new every day!
regards,

The Statutory Instrument regarding bus lanes indicate that a further sign MAY be erected indicating the effective times of the bus lane. Therefore, if this sign is not in place, then the bus lane would be effective 24 hours a day every day.

MugMugs

Bus Lanes are illegal.

They promote undetaking despite the traffic to their right not turning right.

And that's why I did it Judge. :D:D

Cookie_Monster

MugMugs wrote: »

Bus Lanes are illegal.

They promote undetaking despite the traffic to their right not turning right.

And that's why I did it Judge. :D:D

wut? are they not strictly speaking a separate road rather than simply a separate lane?

MugMugs

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

wut? are they not strictly speaking a separate road rather than simply a separate lane?

Would a seperate road not have to be seperated ?

They're treated as another lane in the terms of out of hours use. This would lead you to believe that they are just another lane.

Cookie_Monster

MugMugs wrote: »

Would a seperate road not have to be seperated ?

They're treated as another lane in the terms of out of hours use. This would lead you to believe that they are just another lane.

but it's a special extra wide continuous white line that you can't cross, you're only supposed to enter or exit a bus lane at it's start or end, not cross in between.

**Timbuk2**

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but it's a special extra wide continuous white line that you can't cross, you're only supposed to enter or exit a bus lane at it's start or end, not cross in between.

That's when the bus lane is in use (and remember you can enter it when the lines become dashed, e.g. for turning left or for access).

When the bus lane is not in use, it's just another lane. In fact, and this rule is hardly ever adhered to, when it's out of use, you should use the bus lane as the normal driving lane.

MugMugs

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but it's a special extra wide continuous white line that you can't cross, you're only supposed to enter or exit a bus lane at it's start or end, not cross in between.

MODS: This isn't freeman crap. Generally interested

So are they illegal. Do they not contradict the passing on the left when traffic is turning right rule ?

Sids Not

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

That's when the bus lane is in use (and remember you can enter it when the lines become dashed, e.g. for turning left or for access).

When the bus lane is not in use, it's just another lane. In fact, and this rule is hardly ever adhered to, when it's out of use, you should use the bus lane as the normal driving lane.

Yeah..this really annoys me ..i always use the bus lanes out of hours, but then you get idiots that take exception to this and blow their horns and wave fists ....btw...if theres a yield sign at the end of a bus lane you must give way to traffic wanting to move into your path...I taught a taxi this the hard way at Bakers corner......maybe thats why the bus lane is now gone....;)

cormac_byrne

Sids Not wrote: »

Yeah..this really annoys me ..i always use the bus lanes out of hours, but then you get idiots that take exception to this and blow their horns and wave fists ....btw...if theres a yield sign at the end of a bus lane you must give way to traffic wanting to move into your path...I taught a taxi this the hard way at Bakers corner......maybe thats why the bus lane is now gone....;)

Yes you are correct to be in the bus lane as out of hours it is simply the default left hand land and all traffic should be using it (by virtue of the standard drive in the left lane rule)

However now that the bus lane is simply a regular left hand lane you shouldn't be using this lane for overtaking traffic that is in the right hand lane.

The normal rules apply i.e shouldn't overtake on the left unless turning left, or slow moving traffic etc...

These same rules also apply to busses & taxis using out of hours bus lanes,
but noone seems to have told them!

Dartz

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

That's when the bus lane is in use (and remember you can enter it when the lines become dashed, e.g. for turning left or for access).

When the bus lane is not in use, it's just another lane. In fact, and this rule is hardly ever adhered to, when it's out of use, you should use the bus lane as the normal driving lane.

I never stop smiling when I pass a queue of cars waiting at traffic lights in the usual driving lane. About 20 cars, sitting waiting patiently. None of them realising the bus lane opened to all at 19:00....

Sids Not

cormac_byrne wrote: »

Yes you are correct to be in the bus lane as out of hours it is simply the default left hand land and all traffic should be using it (by virtue of the standard drive in the left lane rule)

However now that the bus lane is simply a regular left hand lane you shouldn't be using this lane for overtaking traffic that is in the right hand lane.!

The problem I have here is that all the traffic in the (now, middle ) lane to my right IS moving slowly...so i feel i can undertake them....:)

BTW...anyone else notice it seems that VAG drivers can use the bus lanes at any time.....:pac:

E39MSport

Dartz wrote: »

I never stop smiling when I pass a queue of cars waiting at traffic lights in the usual driving lane. About 20 cars, sitting waiting patiently. None of them realising the bus lane opened to all at 19:00....

It's the little things :rolleyes:

zagmund

Err, are you trying to say that where a bus lane merges into traffic and there's a yield sign, that the traffic in the main lane with no visible obstruction in sight has to yield ?

Sids Not wrote: »

if theres a yield sign at the end of a bus lane you must give way to traffic wanting to move into your path

Would they not be better putting up a "You there in the other lane, you need to yield" sign instead of a "yield" sign telling the traffic in the bus lane to, you know . . . yield ?

z

ants09

CiniO wrote: »

If there is no times shown, it means that it's a bus lane at all times.

If you are driving anything else than a bus, bicycle or taxi, you can be fined for using them·

Where there is a bus lane, you will see an upright blue and white sign on the side of the road on a pole and on the roadway there will be markings of a continuous white line and the words "Lána Bus". You must obey the road marking and the sign. The white plate shows when the section of road is meant only for the buses shown. Normally bus lanes operate from 7am to 7pm or during peak hours. Outside these times, all traffic may use them. You should check the information plate to confirm the time limits that apply.

A contra-flow bus lane runs in the opposite direction to the traffic beside it. It is reserved only for buses, which means that no other traffic may use it, day or night.

CiniO

ants09 wrote: »

Where there is a bus lane, you will see an upright blue and white sign on the side of the road on a pole and on the roadway there will be markings of a continuous white line and the words "Lána Bus". You must obey the road marking and the sign. The white plate shows when the section of road is meant only for the buses shown. Normally bus lanes operate from 7am to 7pm or during peak hours. Outside these times, all traffic may use them. You should check the information plate to confirm the time limits that apply.

A contra-flow bus lane runs in the opposite direction to the traffic beside it. It is reserved only for buses, which means that no other traffic may use it, day or night.

I don't know where did you take that quote from, but true is, if there is no hours plate within the bus lane sign, it means bus lane operates 24h, and no cars are allowed to use it.
I explained it earlier in this thread.

ants09

CiniO wrote: »

I don't know where did you take that quote from, but true is, if there is no hours plate within the bus lane sign, it means bus lane operates 24h, and no cars are allowed to use it.
I explained it earlier in this thread.

a contra flow bus lane you aint allowed to use at all.

a ordinary bus lane meant to have The white plate shows when the section of road is meant only for the buses shown. Normally bus lanes operate from 7am to 7pm or during peak hours. Outside these times, all traffic may use them. You should check the information plate to confirm the time limits that apply.

so if it doesnt have a white plate showing the signs it aint a prober bus lane and can be used in my opinion

and that quote is taken from the rsa rules of the road on bus lanes

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/traffic-signs-road-markings/buses.html

coylemj

ants09 wrote: »

[/B]so if it doesnt have a white plate showing the signs it aint a prober bus lane and can be used in my opinion

and that quote is taken from the rsa rules of the road on bus lanes

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/traffic-signs-road-markings/buses.html

But that's just your opinion.

You're conveniently ignoring the word 'Normally' in that section of the RoTR. The bus lane doesn't have to have a sign indicating times so you're being way too liberal in your interpretation when you claim that the absence of a sign indicating times means that it is not a bus lane.

ants09

coylemj wrote: »

But that's just your opinion.

You're conveniently ignoring the word 'Normally' in that section of the RoTR. The bus lane doesn't have to have a sign indicating times so you're being way too liberal in your interpretation when you claim that the absence of a sign indicating times means that it is not a bus lane.

the white plate shows the section of the road is meant only for buses shown as in the times its a bus lane

normally bus lanes operate from .... which means it shows the times of the bus lane unless its a contra flow bus lane

it says the only bus lane that doesnt have a sign indicating the time periods is a contra flow one thats the only exception

CiniO

ants09 wrote: »

a contra flow bus lane you aint allowed to use at all.

a ordinary bus lane meant to have The white plate shows when the section of road is meant only for the buses shown. Normally bus lanes operate from 7am to 7pm or during peak hours. Outside these times, all traffic may use them. You should check the information plate to confirm the time limits that apply.

so if it doesnt have a white plate showing the signs it aint a prober bus lane and can be used in my opinion

and that quote is taken from the rsa rules of the road on bus lanes

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/traffic-signs-road-markings/buses.html

1. You are quoting a book (rules of the road) which not always is correct, and actually there are indeed some mistakes in it.

2. You are interpreting it your way. Assumption that lack of white plate with hours means it's not a proper bus lane, is ridiculous. By saying "normally" they mean the most common situations - not all of them. I agree that it's not worded clearly in rotr, but hence point 1.

3. You have enough time to argue with us here, but you didn't bother checking my earlier post in this thread, where everything is explained. I quoted there part of legislation, explaining that bus lane might have a white plate with hours, but doesn't have to.

Thanks for responces confirming it everyone.

But could one not argue that, when driving you must know and obey the ROTR?

I don't remember having to learn any legislation when taking the driving test, but I had to know the rules of the road.

One more small question, which it may be a better idea of me starting a new thread, but what about bus lanes on private roads (Blanchardstown Shopping Centre)? Are bus lanes on private road legally bus lanes?

Cheers

CiniO

Deleted User wrote: »

But could one not argue that, when driving you must know and obey the ROTR?

I don't remember having to learn any legislation when taking the driving test, but I had to know the rules of the road.

Sorry, but I will argue.
While driving you must know and obey the Law, which are mostly all Road traffic Acts and Regulations.

ROTR is just a book, which purpose is to explain in easy words, all rules form the Law + some useful tips about driving.
Unfortunately ROTR contains mistakes, and sometimes is not precise.
When in doubt, it's always wise to check in the Law, as that's what apply, and that's what the judge going to go by in the case something goes wrong and case goes to court.
I'd say even the best solicitor wouldn't be able to convince judge, that what's written in ROTR is more important than what's written in legislation.

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

Sorry, but I will argue.
While driving you must know and obey the Law, which are mostly all Road traffic Acts and Regulations.

ROTR is just a book, which purpose is to explain in easy words, all rules form the Law + some useful tips about driving.
Unfortunately ROTR contains mistakes, and sometimes is not precise.
When in doubt, it's always wise to check in the Law, as that's what apply, and that's what the judge going to go by in the case something goes wrong and case goes to court.
I'd say even the best solicitor wouldn't be able to convince judge, that what's written in ROTR is more important than what's written in legislation.

Fair enough. Looks like I wont be drinving in bus lanes with no times posted so!

Thanks CiniO

J K

Deleted User wrote: »

But could one not argue that, when driving you must know and obey the ROTR?

If you're looking something to argue this bus lane point on, the lane in question is on private roads. They weren't built by the council but by she shopping centre. You'll note car parks on either side of the road - they're essentially internal lanes of one big shopping car park. Also ask the judge to produce his written oath of taking office :pac: