Is Alcoholism a disease?

TheyKnowMyIP

I am not so sure. Alcoholism does not fit the diagnostic profile of an actual disease. Personally speaking, I am "addicted" to chocolate. This is a result of my choice. I can stop. People with cancer cannot just "stop" metastasis. Self control is a great thing.

Dangerous Man

Thanks for that.

The Outside Agency

It's a choice.

opinion guy

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

People with cancer cannot just "stop" metastasis.

Even if they are homeopaths ?

artanevilla

I see it all the time in my line of work. I believe it is a diesese. You say you are 'addicted' to chocolate, but then go on to say it's your choice and you can stop anytime? You do know that 'I'm addicted to' and 'I enjoy' are two completely different things?

TheyKnowMyIP

opinion guy wrote: »

Even if they are homeopaths ?

Homeopathy is pseudoscience.

geetar

yes it is a disease

Little Acorn

You can "just stop" eating chocolate. Good for you. Some people can't "just stop" abusing alcohol, without receiving some help first.

RichieC

it's not a drug. It's a drink.

Keith186

It's an addiction not a disease.

Two different things in my book.

Galway K9

Oh god I can see this thread getting nasty.

Might as well sit back and watch the clash of the egos.

The Outside Agency

artanevilla wrote: »

I see it all the time in my line of work. I believe it is a diesese. You say you are 'addicted' to chocolate, but then go on to say it's your choice and you can stop anytime? You do know that 'I'm addicted to' and 'I enjoy' are two completely different things?

What other animal on the planet gets intoxicated and calls it a disease? :pac:

It's just in a long line of excuses for drinking, a fairly pathetic one at that.

I've no sympathy for alcoholic who excuses his/her behaviour as a disease.

finnigan

nivekd wrote: »

It's a choice.

for some its not

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

of course it's not a disease, that's a ridiculous american tradition that's been gaining popularity in the rest of the world because it gives drug addicts an excuse to blame their own problems on something else

Dangerous Man

nivekd wrote: »

What other animal on the planet gets intoxicated and calls it a disease? :pac:

It's just in a long line of excuses for drinking, a fairly pathetic one at that.

I've no sympathy for someone who calls alcoholism a disease.

Drunken monkeys. Where do you think the Kung-Fu dudes came up with that shit? From watching monkeys get pissed. Science. Fact. Monkeys with booze.

Saila

geetar wrote: »

yes it is a disease

of the drinking classes! oh no wait thats work

MetalDog

I ticked "few cans":D

But in all seriousness, I would think its an addiction as opposed to a disease.

RichieC

Dangerous Man wrote: »

Drunken monkeys. Where do you think the Kung-Fu dudes came up with that shit? From watching monkeys get pissed. Science. Fact. Monkeys with booze.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohgqRRLjBsg

TheyKnowMyIP

QFT

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan

bradyle

Definiton or disease:

a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury:
bacterial meningitis is quite a rare disease
[mass noun] :
heart disease


Addiction is a disorder of the general structure of humans therefore it is a disease

opinion guy

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Homeopathy is pseudoscience.

I was making a joke....da goddammit I forgot my smiley faced for the sarcastically challenged again:rolleyes:

artanevilla

nivekd wrote: »

What other animal on the planet gets intoxicated and calls it a disease? :pac:

It's just in a long line of excuses for drinking, a fairly pathetic one at that.

I've no sympathy for alcoholic who excuses his/her behaviour as a disease.

I don't think any other animals can call anything anything. I would see it as a disease in a sense that some people are born with it, not in the traditional sense. I shouldn't think alcoholics use it as an 'excuse' for their behaviour, they literally cannot stop without some sort of help or intervention.

TheyKnowMyIP

bradyle wrote: »

Definiton or disease:

a disorder of structure or function in a human, animal, or plant, especially one that produces specific symptoms or that affects a specific location and is not simply a direct result of physical injury:
bacterial meningitis is quite a rare disease
[mass noun] :
heart disease


Addiction is a disorder of the general structure of humans therefore it is a disease

I think you need to reread that definition again.

artanevilla

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I think you need to reread that definition again.

'OR'

Micky Dolenz

Not sure, but some people are more prone to getting addicted then others.

ballsymchugh

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

of course it's not a disease, that's a ridiculous american tradition that's been gaining popularity in the rest of the world because it gives drug addicts an excuse to blame their own problems on something else

officially it became recognised as a disease in the US so that people could claim for the treatment on their medical insurance. before that, who knows what was thought of it.

iguana

Alcoholism is not a disease as most people understand the word diseases. It is however a severe brain injury which can be repaired with the proper treatment. There are numerous excellent, excellent therapies for addiction, unfortunately they are not well known and most people's understanding of addiction is based upon the "teachings" of the extremely profitable, almost completely ineffective addiction industry and it's 80 year old philosophy derived from a time before neuroscience and modern medical knowledge.

"Alcoholism" occurs as a result of severe damage to the GABA(b) receptors which are one half of the receptors for our chief neurotransmitter, gamma-Aminobutyric acid. Alcohol (and most types of drug) abuse leads to impairment of these receptors, the more someone drinks the worse they function leading to often debilitating physical symptoms. Unfortunately the most obvious way to alleviate these symptoms is to keep using the drug of choice, this is what causes the overwhelming cravings. Most crucially, as with all addictive substances, over time more and more of the drug becomes necessary to mask the symptoms of the brain damage. No mystery, no spiritual deficiency, no lifelong incurable illness just straightforward neuroscience. Many people who have addictions also often have untreated mental illnesses like depression, bi-polar disorder, schizophrenia, etc. These illnesses are often the reason why the addict began self-medicating and they usually go undiagnosed while the addiction is active.

More people die annually from alcohol addiction than do from any single form of cancer. Addiction is an extremely serious medical condition. It isn't as simple as they are just people making a selfish choice. But neither is it as complex as it being a mysterious lifelong illness.

As to why it happens to some people and not to others, that is as of yet unknown. There are a range of psychological reasons which seem to lead to substance abuse issues, such as childhood abuse, neglect, rape, broken family, etc. Physiologically there is a theory of some substance which suggests that many alcohol addicts have livers which produce excess alcohol dehydrogenases. This means that they would be able to drink more to little immediately felt physical effect, so they drink more in order to get drunk and this excess drinking is what leads to the damage in the GABAergic regions of the brain. It makes some sense and some studies show correlation between alcoholics and excess alcohol dehydrogenases production but is as of yet unproven.

The Outside Agency

artanevilla wrote:

they literally cannot stop without some sort of help or intervention.

Well, most of the alcoholics i've met over the years didn't even want help but would always say "it's a disease" as if to say it was out of their control...amazing people would fall for that.

Smoking must be a disease too.

msg11

Keith186 wrote: »

It's an addiction not a disease.

Two different things in my book.

See, Alcoholism is caused by your addiction to drink. If you notice it early you can stop. When you can't stop and it's causing your vital organs to fail, then it's a disease which will in the end kill you unless your treated with anti depressants to stop serve DT's

TheyKnowMyIP

artanevilla wrote: »

'OR'

Your post is meaningless. I require the specific context surrounding this word. Context sensitivity.

celj

Alcoholism is a disease and one which does and will kill you.
All of the people who say it's not have obviously not got any experience of the disease.
Really find it quite crazy that there are Irish people who don't think it's a disease when the effects of chronic alcohol abuse are so well reported here.:mad:

TheyKnowMyIP

iguana wrote: »

More people die annually from alcohol addiction than do from any single form of cancer. Addiction is an extremely serious medical condition. It isn't as simple as they are just people making a selfish choice. But neither is it as complex as it being a mysterious lifelong illness.

You have just confirmed my original thoughts on this matter. Once socioeconomic factors are involved, all bets are off.

artanevilla

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

Your post is meaningless. I require the specific context surrounding this word. Context sensitivity.

I quoted your post, that's the context, you've highlighted words in the post you've quoted, completely ignoring the word 'or' which makes your post irrelevent.

TheyKnowMyIP

artanevilla wrote: »

I see it all the time in my line of work. I believe it is a diesese. You say you are 'addicted' to chocolate, but then go on to say it's your choice and you can stop anytime? You do know that 'I'm addicted to' and 'I enjoy' are two completely different things?

At least I don't make unfounded assumptions about what is and isn't a disease. Not trying to be snide, but I don't always believe someone just because they wear a white coat and pretend they know what they are talking about.

For the record, I wake up with headaches once I miss my chocolate. Seems like dependency to me. Dependency is not a disease. It's a choice.

User Friendly

I would guess that the posters who say it is not a disease clearly have never been affected by alcoholism.

TheyKnowMyIP

artanevilla wrote: »

I quoted your post, that's the context, you've highlighted words in the post you've quoted, completely ignoring the word 'or' which makes your post irrelevent.

Please explain.

whatdoicare

I have two close/immediate family members who are alcoholics and roll out this disease crap the whole time - it never occurred to them until some idiot in AA gave them this excuse.

They drink because they love to drink, they love it from the planning and hoarding stage to the first sip, the getting away with it for a while stage, till they get blotto to the shouting matches, feeling sorry for themselves stage, insisting they'll change stage to the hugs all round and forgiveness stage.

They most especially love the drama and chaos that goes with it all.

They live for it - to them it's like living in a series drama like coronation street all the time! Everyone in the family and our immediate world is revolving around them 24/7 - it pops up in all our conversations, in all their conversations, it's all neighbours talk to us about.

They take over all our big occasions, our holidays, birthdays, weddings. We spend all those bending over backwards to make sure anything they want happens so they'll be there - SOBER. Otherwise, as punishment, our special days are cancelled- we now must spend this day in blackness as the Alcoholic indulges and abuses us- both in public and in private. Even if the day isn't cancelled - the day is black - the Alcoholic like a black cloud weighing on all our heads.

It's the ultimate attention seeking and controlling behaviour. Alcoholism is most definitely NOT a disease - it's a disease on the family for certain but for the Alcoholic it's something far more self centered and selfish.

This is all from personal experience....I apologise if it comes across as biased and enraged.

RichT

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

I am not so sure. Alcoholism does not fit the diagnostic profile of an actual disease. Personally speaking, I am "addicted" to trolling. This is a result of my choice. I can stop. People with cancer cannot just "stop" metastasis. Self control is a great thing.

Fixed your typo.

iguana

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

You have just confirmed my original thoughts on this matter. Once socioeconomic factors are involved, all bets are off.

I honestly don't have a clue what you mean by this or how the part of my post which you quoted resulted in this comment?

Seachmall

It's disease in this sense:

"any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease."

But not in this sense:

"a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment."

It doesn't fit the medical use of the word but it does fit the colloquial use.

However an addiction can cause incorrect functioning of organs resulting in a more grounded addiction (e.g. craving heroine as your body is now failing to produce specific chemicals). In this sense it can fit the medical definition.

TheyKnowMyIP

Seachmall wrote: »

It's disease in this sense:

"any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society: His fascination with executions is a disease."

But not in this sense:

"a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment."

It doesn't fit the medical use of the word but it does fit the colloquial use.

So it's not a disease?

Seachmall

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

So it's not a disease?

Read the edit.

Depends on what type of addiction and what definition of disease you're using.

TheyKnowMyIP

As long as I don't reach the LD_50, who is to say drinking excessively isn't my choice, assuming I drink all day and all night. A few cans maybe later. Nice.

TheyKnowMyIP

Seachmall wrote: »

Read the edit.

My fault. I am speaking from an entirely medical point of view. The cynic in me wonders if this disease profile is merely a gain for insurance companies, while avoiding the real truth of the matter.

Seachmall

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

My fault. I am speaking from an entirely medical point of view. The cynic in me wonders if this disease profile is merely a gain for insurance companies, while avoiding the real truth of the matter.

Well if you get addicted to a drug like heroine it can substitute naturally occurring chemicals. Your body stops producing those chemicals expecting an external source.

You could say the addiction isn't the disease but merely a side-effect of a disease.

Semantics imo.

Little Acorn

I clicked yes, but I can see why some people are trying to say, Is addiction the same as disease?
I tend to see it as some sort of sickness of the mind.
A psychological illness that usually needs to be treated with support and maybe counselling, although some might be able to overcome some types of addiction themselves such as quitting smoking.

Is a psychological condition a disease, such as addiction or depression?
I definitely think they are disorders or sicknesses that need to be treated, it's just that often the treatment is not medicine as in with a regular disease, but counselling and support services are still treating an illness none the less.
[I know that depression can also be treated sometimes with medicine, and that there are antabuse tablets for drink problems too]

I don't know if people are born with or not. I know it can seem to run in families, but I'm not sure if that is just to do with environment or not. I know that people who never had addiction problems could develop alcohol dependency much later in life, sometimes due to bad events, or sometimes it just can seem to be for no obvious reason.

I don't think anybody should use it being a disease as an excuse for their behavior, as I think they should be trying their best to overcome it. I know that is easier said than done, some really want to but can't without help, and some are so gripped by it, that they just actually can't make themselves want want to stop.

It's definitely a mind sickness of some sort that also causes physical illness and sickness, and sometimes death.

TheyKnowMyIP

Little Acorn wrote: »

I clicked yes, but I can see why some people are trying to say, Is addiction the same as disease?
I tend to see it as some sort of sickness of the mind.
A psychological illness that usually needs to be treated with support and maybe counselling, although some might be able to overcome some types of addiction themselves such as quitting smoking.

Is a psychological condition a disease, such as addiction or depression?
I definitely think they are disorders or sicknesses that need to be treated, it's just that often the treatment is not medicine as in with a regular disease, but counselling and support services are still treating an illness none the less.
[I know that depression can also be treated sometimes with medicine, and that there are antabuse tablets for drink problems too]

I don't know if people are born with or not. I know it can seem to run in families, but I'm not sure if that is just to do with environment or not. I know that people who never had addiction problems could develop alcohol dependency much later in life, sometimes due to bad events, or sometimes it just can seem to be for no obvious reason.

I don't think anybody should use it being a disease as an excuse for their behavior, as I think they should be trying their best to overcome it. I know that is easier said than done, some really want to but can't without help, and some are so gripped by it, that they just actually can't make themselves want want to stop.

It's definitely a mind sickness of some sort that also causes physical illness and sickness, and sometimes death.

"Mind sickness"? Who is to say what is and isn't a "mind sickness". Sick implies a disease/medical condition of some sort, no? I like to brush my teeth with boar bristles sometimes, is this decision the product of a sick mind? Perhaps misunderstood is the term you are looking for.

Personally, I like cultural diversity as a concept.

Galway K9

nivekd wrote: »

What other animal on the planet gets intoxicated and calls it a disease? :pac:

It's just in a long line of excuses for drinking, a fairly pathetic one at that.

I've no sympathy for alcoholic who excuses his/her behaviour as a disease.

well ****ing said!!! well said! some intellect!

geetar wrote: »

yes it is a disease

am....your argument? lol

SlimCi

Having first hand experience of alcoholism with my mother, it is my opinion that this is a disease. It seems to be carried in the genetic makeup also as my great grandfather and some other family members have also been alcoholic. There is also research that the children of alcoholics are more prone to becoming alcoholic themselves. Having watched my mother go through the agony of trying to stop for years broke my heart but eventually with the help of others she succeeded. Given that I was an only child with a dead father and an alcholic mother I don't think that she MADE A CHOICE to hurt her much loved child, she couldn't help it and I saw first hand the pain it caused my mother that she just couldn't control it. The funny thing also is it has nothing to do with copious amounts of drink, its that reliance on HAVING to have one two or three. I hope those of you who have been so black and white in your negative opinions never have to face this problem with your children or relations as life is made up of varying shades of grey, and I hope you would not be so judgemental then. My mother is now dead, and very much missed and I am so proud of her that she managed to kick the habit, she did it for her family and certainly not for herself, because she just didn't love herself enough for that.

Little Acorn

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

"Mind sickness"? Who is to say what is and isn't a "mind sickness". Sick implies a disease/medical condition of some sort, no? I like to brush my teeth with boar bristles sometimes, is this decision the product of a sick mind? Perhaps misunderstood is the term you are looking for.

Personally, I like cultural diversity as a concept.

Perhaps mind sickness is not the most technical or correct term. I just think that something is definitely going wrong in the brain of alcoholics. They are harming themselves both emotionally and physically yet continue to repeatedly do so, they also continue to hurt the people they love, even if they want to stop.
You are not harming anyone brushing your teeth with boar bristles except maybe the poor boar!:P

iguana

TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

My fault. I am speaking from an entirely medical point of view. The cynic in me wonders if this disease profile is merely a gain for insurance companies, while avoiding the real truth of the matter.

The cynic in you would be partially correct and partially ass backwards. Insurance companies are actually big losers when it comes to the disease definition as they are the ones who end up paying out the 5 and 6 figure sums to rehab facilities and addiction specialists. I'm quite sure that most insurance companies would be ecstatic if they were told alcoholism treatment is no longer something they are required to cover.

However the history of the NCADD in America (formerly the NCA) and Marty Mann in particular and many of the nonsensical and repeatedly disproved studies and medical reports she used to petition AMA to define alcoholism as a medical issue is worthy of a very healthy dose of cynicism.