for all the deise 2 wheeled community this sunday

honeybadger

marlin vs

The forecast is bad,I hope it dosen't put too many people off.

Cabaal

No to always on headlights???......yeah smart.
All motorist traffic incl cars, trucks should have headlights on when moving, it makes them much more visible.

Either this riders right protest is the biggest troll ever on the Waterford forum or you people appear have no common sense,

marlin vs

Cabaal wrote: »

No to always on headlights???......yeah smart.
All motorist traffic incl cars, trucks should have headlights on when moving, it makes them much more visible.

Either this riders right protest is the biggest troll ever on the Waterford forum or you people appear have no common sense,

I drive with my lights on all the time, the issue is they are making law's forcing people to do these things.I guarentee that if you go down and have a look you'll see people doing some of these thing's of their on free will.

200motels

marlin vs wrote: »

I drive with my lights on all the time, the issue is they are making law's forcing people to do these things.I guarentee that if you go down and have a look you'll see people doing some of these thing's of their on free will.

I think your making a silly point, what about seat belts, drink driving etc if they were no laws would everybody wear a seatbelt or drink and drive.

Potential-Monke

I'm with Cabaal on this one, always on headlights should be mandatory for every single driver out there, and not just motorcyclists. Partially agree to the high visibility part too, in fairness most bike accidents are caused by motorists who didn't see the biker, so more visibility would be a good thing... Now if only herself would let me get one!

marlin vs

200motels wrote: »

I think your making a silly point, what about seat belts, drink driving etc if they were no laws would everybody wear a seatbelt or drink and drive.

I alway's wear a seat belt and don't drink and drive,and it's not because it's the law it's just common sence,I can't answer for other people.

seanybiker

Most of new bikes don't have an option to turn the lights off so that law doesn't bother me.

Putting a fecking tachograph on a bike and not leaving me into urban areas etc is the stupid proposals they are voting on. Oh and Retro fitting ABS to me bike. Fook off with that idea lol.

Potential-Monke

seanybiker wrote: »

Most of new bikes don't have an option to turn the lights off so that law doesn't bother me.

Putting a fecking tachograph on a bike and not leaving me into urban areas etc is the stupid proposals they are voting on. Oh and Retro fitting ABS to me bike. Fook off with that idea lol.

Why do they want tacographs on bikes? Granted if it's a delivery bike, but a personal bike? I can't see the sense in that. And if there are classic cars that don't require ABS why are they trying to get bikes to have it done?

chelloveks

seanybiker wrote: »

Most of new bikes don't have an option to turn the lights off so that law doesn't bother me.

Putting a fecking tachograph on a bike and not leaving me into urban areas etc is the stupid proposals they are voting on. Oh and Retro fitting ABS to me bike. Fook off with that idea lol.

George Orwell....1884.....big brother is watching! Put one of them devices on the govt cars and let's see where those elected to serve us are driving their free cars!not a fckn chance!

south

I thought headlights on was coming in for all cars and bikes in a few years anyway.. i could be wrong..

seanybiker

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Why do they want tacographs on bikes? Granted if it's a delivery bike, but a personal bike? I can't see the sense in that. And if there are classic cars that don't require ABS why are they trying to get bikes to have it done?

no idea to be honest.

I can't see these coming in anyways. Well not all of them.

two wheels good

seanybiker wrote: »

Putting a fecking tachograph on a bike.... [edit] Fook off with that idea lol.

I read comments about this but have searched relevant documents and websites and found no such proposal. I only found info on On-Board Diagnostics
There is NO proposal to fit ride history recording devices to motorcycles.

On-Board Diagnostics (OBD)amounts to warning lights to tell the rider a failure of equipment has occurred. e.g. ABS failure, brake light failure

seanybiker wrote: »

Oh and Retro fitting ABS to me bike. Fook off with that idea lol.

There is NO proposal to mandate retro-fitment of ABS.
As I understand the proposal is for ABS to be fitted on all new bikes over 125cc

Of course ABS and ODB is going to push up prices

seanybiker

two wheels good wrote: »

I read comments about this but have searched relevant documents and websites and found no such proposal. I only found info on On-Board Diagnostics
There is NO proposal to fit ride history recording devices to motorcycles.

On-Board Diagnostics (OBD)amounts to warning lights to tell the rider a failure of equipment has occurred. e.g. ABS failure, brake light failure



There is NO proposal to mandate retro-fitment of ABS.
As I understand the proposal is for ABS to be fitted on all new bikes over 125cc

Of course ABS and ODB is going to push up prices

Ah that's all grand so. Any site I'm on they are banging on about so I just went with them lol.

My bike and many others already have onboard diagnostics anyways so that's all good.

What about not being able to modify the bike at all and 7 year old + bikes not being allowed in urban areas? That could be hysteria aswell lol.

two wheels good

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'm with Cabaal on this one, always on headlights should be mandatory for every single driver out there, and not just motorcyclists.

I disagree. The motorcyclist's headlight can 'get lost' in the flurry of headlights.

There are times when headlight off is safer for the motorcyclist e.g with low sun or other bright headlights behind the rider.

Consider the m\cycle headlight lining up with the truck headlight then the oncoming driver sees a pair of truck headlights, not two vehicles.

I'd like to control my own lights thanks.

two wheels good

seanybiker wrote: »

What about not being able to modify the bike at all and 7 year old + bikes not being allowed in urban areas? That could be hysteria aswell lol.

Type approval , and any ban on modification is an outrageous proposal. That's why I'll be protesting tomorrow.

The ban on 7 (or 8) year old bikes in urban is not an EU proposal. It's a domestic French initiative . Utterly ridiculous.
I find it hard to imagine it could get EU-wide support, but who knows with the eurocrats.

seanybiker

Can't see it getting EU support meself to be honest. Think it's more France and the crap loads of scoots all over the place.

Some of the lads not to happy about the hi-vis jackets. Wouldn't bother me to much. Only ever wore one for me test but sure a jacket isn't gonna harm me.

Keith186

two wheels good wrote: »

Type approval , and any ban on modification is an outrageous proposal. That's why I'll be protesting tomorrow.

The ban on 7 (or 8) year old bikes in urban is not an EU proposal. It's a domestic French initiative . Utterly ridiculous.
I find it hard to imagine it could get EU-wide support, but who knows with the eurocrats.

Could you explain what type approval actually means?

Thanks

marlin vs

Cabaal wrote: »

Either this riders right protest is the biggest troll ever on the Waterford forum or you people appear have no common sense,

Not a troll Cabaal,and a lot of us have more common sence than you seem to have.Typical knocker and know all.And what do you mean by you people,do you look down on biker's?

honeybadger

Cabaal wrote: »

No to always on headlights???......yeah smart.
All motorist traffic incl cars, trucks should have headlights on when moving, it makes them much more visible.

Either this riders right protest is the biggest troll ever on the Waterford forum or you people appear have no common sense,

just to let you know cabaal this a european wide protest tomorrow and not just confined to our lovely little city here,and if you have the spare time tomorrow why not come down and support us and enjoy the sight or support your own up in kk there..this is about freedom of rights after all

seanybiker

Keith186 wrote: »

Could you explain what type approval actually means?

Thanks

I didnt read up all the legislation crap etc etc etc

my guessing is type approval means, you can change certain things but they will be tightly governed. eg: no K@N air filter but a slightly different air filter from the OEM is ok. probably totally wrong but thats just my guess.

two wheels good

Keith186 wrote: »

Could you explain what type approval actually means? Thanks

Type approval/Single vehicle approval:
All spare parts must be approved for use. Time consuming and expensive particularly for any low volume manufacturer.

Regulation for people who build bikes and the number of vehicles they produce
More difficult to import vehicles from outside EU

Anti tampering:
Restrictions on mods to motorcycles especially those that increase power. Possibly requirement to specify power figures on registration document
Possible restriction on the tyres permitted for each vehicle

Inevitably all this will mean more cost for manufacturer and consumer - and more NCT-type testing of vehicles, and I suspect more road-side spot checks

Some of the proposals e.g. light-on , hi viz, may seem sensible and not very onerous to some riders but this is a time for the motorcycle community to show solidarity and to resist ALL this unnecessary meddling.

Much of my info is from http://www.righttoride.eu/?p=7646. UK based but still very informative. (I found this encouraging statement along the way "The UK Government [therefore] opposes new blanket anti tampering measures".)

BTW Here's an interest quote from the same website regarding tampering with Learner motorcycles http://www.righttoride.eu/?p=7709

"Interestingly, when asked by FEMA how TRL (UK's Transport Research Laboratory) knows the occurrence rate of a certain type of tampering, the TRL representative said “occurrence is difficult to know, so we often use guesses”. You read that right: current state-of-the-art research on engine modification is based on guesswork. And there is no indication that TRL’s guess is better than anybody’s.

Cabaal

honeybadger wrote: »

just to let you know cabaal this a european wide protest tomorrow and not just confined to our lovely little city here,and if you have the spare time tomorrow why not come down and support us and enjoy the sight or support your own up in kk there..this is about freedom of rights after all

I'm sorry but I honestly can't support a campaign that puts choice into such things as having lights on when the engine is running, its as foolish as the campaigns years ago to have seatbelts as optional for people.

It is a legitimate change that is proven to improve viability to other road users, the comments here that suggest it allows the light to be lost amongst others is just foolish

Some of the proposals e.g. light-on , hi viz, may seem sensible and not very onerous to some riders but this is a time for the motorcycle community to show solidarity and to resist ALL this unnecessary meddling.

This honestly makes no sense, so whilst you admit that there are perfectly legit and reasonable requests being made you lump them in with others and reject them all.

longshanks

Might take a spin in to town, see if any bikers braved the rain

Potential-Monke

Seems to be a good turnout, can't guess how many but there are at least 20 bikes i can see. And all the riders in under the canopy on the Plaza!

Edit: Just got a text from a friend who is on the motorway on the way towards waterford, before getting to the Mullinavat turnoff, and thereare loads of bikes on the road... Blokcing both lanes and driving at 60kph, with a car at the front driving inbetween both lanes. Way to promote guys, way to promote...

Cabaal

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Edit: Just got a text from a friend who is on the motorway on the way towards waterford, before getting to the Mullinavat turnoff, and thereare loads of bikes on the road... Blokcing both lanes and driving at 60kph, with a car at the front driving inbetween both lanes. Way to promote guys, way to promote...

Insanely stupid thing for anyone to do if this is true, not to mention very much illegal. Not exactly something that will make anyone want to support you either.

brian plank

Cabaal wrote: »

Insanely stupid thing for anyone to do if this is true, not to mention very much illegal. Not exactly something that will make anyone want to support you either.

cococoady

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0925/motorcyles.html.

seanybiker

Cabaal wrote: »

I'm sorry but I honestly can't support a campaign that puts choice into such things as having lights on when the engine is running, its as foolish as the campaigns years ago to have seatbelts as optional for people.

It is a legitimate change that is proven to improve viability to other road users, the comments here that suggest it allows the light to be lost amongst others is just foolish



This honestly makes no sense, so whilst you admit that there are perfectly legit and reasonable requests being made you lump them in with others and reject them all.

There's more to it than just the lights. Most bikes don't have an off switch for the lights anyways. Look at the whole things they want to bring in and not just the lights being on and then you might know what we are giving out about.

Cabaal

seanybiker wrote: »

There's more to it than just the lights. Most bikes don't have an off switch for the lights anyways. Look at the whole things they want to bring in and not just the lights being on and then you might know what we are giving out about.

and you've noted that already alright, my point being if its not about lights and most bikes can't turn off lights anyway then why include it as something not wanted on posters etc?

Why not use poster and campaign space for the stuff that actually matters and you have an actual real issue with such as say roadside diags?

takola

marlin vs wrote: »

Cabaal.need I say anything else.:D

Banned.

Try to keep it civil, guys.

seanybiker

Cabaal wrote: »

and you've noted that already alright, my point being if its not about lights and most bikes can't turn off lights anyway then why include it as something not wanted on posters etc?

Why not use poster and campaign space for the stuff that actually matters and you have an actual real issue with such as say roadside diags?

I totally agree with you. Can't understand the light thing being on the poster.
Having lights on isn't really the "man" sticking two fingers up at us Bikers. The roadside diag should have taking up most of the posters.imo

daenerysstormborn3

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'm with Cabaal on this one, always on headlights should be mandatory for every single driver out there, and not just motorcyclists. Partially agree to the high visibility part too, in fairness most bike accidents are caused by motorists who didn't see the biker, so more visibility would be a good thing... Now if only herself would let me get one!

So you admit that most bike accidents are caused by motorists who didn't see the biker, yet the onus should be put on the biker not the blind idiot who somehow managed to get a driving licence?

two wheels good wrote: »

I read comments about this but have searched relevant documents and websites and found no such proposal. I only found info on On-Board Diagnostics
There is NO proposal to fit ride history recording devices to motorcycles.

On-Board Diagnostics (OBD)amounts to warning lights to tell the rider a failure of equipment has occurred. e.g. ABS failure, brake light failure



There is NO proposal to mandate retro-fitment of ABS.
As I understand the proposal is for ABS to be fitted on all new bikes over 125cc

Of course ABS and ODB is going to push up prices

OBD will take note of everything including speeds and emissions, these may be used down the line to prosecute people for something they're not actually caught doing and to bring in a system for taxing bikes on scale depending on the engine size.

two wheels good wrote: »

Type approval , and any ban on modification is an outrageous proposal. That's why I'll be protesting tomorrow.

The ban on 7 (or 8) year old bikes in urban is not an EU proposal. It's a domestic French initiative . Utterly ridiculous.
I find it hard to imagine it could get EU-wide support, but who knows with the eurocrats.

The ban on bikes over 7 years is a domestic French proposal but if it gets passed there it's only a matter of time before other countries see the example and follow suit.

Cabaal wrote: »

Insanely stupid thing for anyone to do if this is true, not to mention very much illegal. Not exactly something that will make anyone want to support you either.

Yes, that's why there was hundreds of arrests today :rolleyes:

daenerysstormborn3

Cabaal wrote: »

No to always on headlights???......yeah smart.
All motorist traffic incl cars, trucks should have headlights on when moving, it makes them much more visible.

Either this riders right protest is the biggest troll ever on the Waterford forum or you people appear have no common sense,

The reason why we are against the always on dipped headlights for all vehicles is because bikes will once again just blend in with all other road users. People constantly complain about not being able to see us (because apparently blind people are allowed obtain a driving licence) yet the one thing that makes us more visible than other road users is always on dipped headlights (which is not optional on most bikes, I can't turn the lights off on my bike).

You people?? You are some piece of work.

chelloveks

Why do we all just support banning all bikes over 70ccs and bring back them red Honda scooters everyone had in the 60's. Could get some traction especially since nobody can afford a real bike in this fookin economy!

seanybiker

chelloveks wrote: »

Why do we all just support banning all bikes over 70ccs and bring back them red Honda scooters everyone had in the 60's. Could get some traction especially since nobody can afford a real bike in this fookin economy!

Quiet you.

Saying that, honda 50's are some laugh.

daenerysstormborn3

We should all get Honda Zoomers. Get some mileage out of a tank of petrol on them!

seanybiker

pixiebean22 wrote: »

We should all get Honda Zoomers. Get some mileage out of a tank of petrol on them!

haha Hilton used to have one of them badboys out there. always wanted a go of it for the laugh.

chelloveks

When the first gas crisis hit us in NYC in '75 I bought a 500 cc Yamaha thumper single cylinder street bike to commut to work n school. Filled the tank for about 3 dollars and it would run for a week. And the little thing had balls too! Even back then it was the law for all bike to have lights on at all times. Ahh the good old days....little flask in the saddle bags...

seanybiker

chelloveks wrote: »

When the first gas crisis hit us in NYC in '75 I bought a 500 cc Yamaha thumper single cylinder street bike to commut to work n school. Filled the tank for about 3 dollars and it would run for a week. And the little thing had balls too! Even back then it was the law for all bike to have lights on at all times. Ahh the good old days....little flask in the saddle bags...

Deadly. Must have been some thumper alright. Single cylinder 500cc. Sounds fun.

200motels

pixiebean22 wrote: »

The reason why we are against the always on dipped headlights for all vehicles is because bikes will once again just blend in with all other road users. People constantly complain about not being able to see us (because apparently blind people are allowed obtain a driving licence) yet the one thing that makes us more visible than other road users is always on dipped headlights (which is not optional on most bikes, I can't turn the lights off on my bike).

You people?? You are some piece of work.

So according to your argument we the car drivers should leave our lights off even in the dark so we can see the bikes. Because in the dark lights blend in even more than in daylight. Your argument is foolish to the extreme.

giles lynchwood

Well first of all our proxy government will do as they are told by the people who control our purse string´s and second,looks like the Kraut´s want everybody riding BMW´S.
Paybacks are a Bitch:mad:

daenerysstormborn3

200motels wrote: »

So according to your argument we the car drivers should leave our lights off even in the dark so we can see the bikes. Because in the dark lights blend in even more than in daylight. Your argument is foolish to the extreme.

Yes, that's exactly what I said so that must be exactly what I meant, well done :rolleyes:

200motels

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Yes, that's exactly what I said so that must be exactly what I meant, well done :rolleyes:

Your argument is mute.

two wheels good

Cabaal wrote: »

This honestly makes no sense, so whilst you admit that there are perfectly legit and reasonable requests being made you lump them in with others and reject them all.

You're referring my earlier statement:
"Some of the proposals e.g. light-on , hi viz, may seem sensible and not very onerous to some riders but this is a time for the motorcycle community to show solidarity and to resist ALL this unnecessary meddling."

Solidarity is needed because quibbling over the relative importance of individual proposals will only dilute the effect of the protest.

I usually wear hi-viz and usually ride with my headlight on in the hope that it may have some benefit - but I certainly don't rely on it. Some riders agree with this policy and some don't.
I don't believe someone should be criminalised for forgetting or refusing to put on a hi-viz jacket.
I also object to the implication that the problem of drivers failing to see motorcyclists is somehow the bikers' fault.
I'd like Garda time to be spent on more serious infringements of the law - e.g use of hand held phones

My last close call was on bright day, long straight rural road. The driver pulled out from the left. We were the only two vehicles on the road. I was on a large yellow bike , headlight-on , wearing a hi-viz AND sounding my horn. No advantage was provided by hi-viz or headlight.

Any objection to headlights on is already probably futile. The manufacturers have already decided on that.

two wheels good

pixiebean22 wrote: »

OBD will take note of everything including speeds and emissions, these may be used down the line to prosecute people for something they're not actually caught doing and to bring in a system for taxing bikes on scale depending on the engine size.

That's what I thought too - initially. But I've searched and found no documents that state OBD will record previous riding history.

RighttoRide.eu website has been useful. For example:
http://www.righttoride.eu/regulationdocuments/WheatfromtheChaff100911.pdf

Potential-Monke

pixiebean22 wrote: »

So you admit that most bike accidents are caused by motorists who didn't see the biker, yet the onus should be put on the biker not the blind idiot who somehow managed to get a driving licence?

I do admit it, and it is a fact, but just because other motorists are the cause of the accidents does not mean that entire blame should be on the driver. The majority yes, but bikers have to work with them to make them more visible. And not all bikers are angels on the road, and i know, having a biker family. We need to work together, and if that means bikers have to wear higher visibility clothing then so be it.

Yes, that's why there was hundreds of arrests today :rolleyes:

Regardless if there were no arrests, it's still a stupid thing to do and puts a negative light on the protest. Ye get a hard enough time as it is from other motorists, doing things like blocking traffic on a dual carrigway is adding fuel to the fire.

Overall, i believe it was a success here in Waterford, a very good turnout and not too much disruption which is good for both sides.

And i have just one suggestion for bikes, how about a certain coloured DDL's? Having a strip or 2 of green DDL's on the front of the bike would let motorists know that it's a bike and not a car with one headlight?

chelloveks

seanybiker wrote: »

Deadly. Must have been some thumper alright. Single cylinder 500cc. Sounds fun.

Jaaaaysus that was my favorite bike of all time except your nuts were numb within an hour of riding! Loved that bike in Manhattan. Could go between the lanes with ease, was really lightweight. Might get another one of them with the price of gas, and yours is twice as high!

daenerysstormborn3

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I do admit it, and it is a fact, but just because other motorists are the cause of the accidents does not mean that entire blame should be on the driver. The majority yes, but bikers have to work with them to make them more visible. And not all bikers are angels on the road, and i know, having a biker family. We need to work together, and if that means bikers have to wear higher visibility clothing then so be it.

Regardless if there were no arrests, it's still a stupid thing to do and puts a negative light on the protest. Ye get a hard enough time as it is from other motorists, doing things like blocking traffic on a dual carrigway is adding fuel to the fire.

Overall, i believe it was a success here in Waterford, a very good turnout and not too much disruption which is good for both sides.

And i have just one suggestion for bikes, how about a certain coloured DDL's? Having a strip or 2 of green DDL's on the front of the bike would let motorists know that it's a bike and not a car with one headlight?

Where are your suggestions for all the other road users then? We can't really work together if it's just us that are being targeted.

It's very amusing how you are proposing we do something to our bikes so motorists know that it's a bike and not a car with one headlight :rolleyes: How about all road users maintain their vehicles properly?! I believe that lights are something that are supposed to be checked on a car before every time it goes out on the road?

Potential-Monke

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Where are your suggestions for all the other road users then? We can't really work together if it's just us that are being targeted.

It's very amusing how you are proposing we do something to our bikes so motorists know that it's a bike and not a car with one headlight :rolleyes: How about all road users maintain their vehicles properly?! I believe that lights are something that are supposed to be checked on a car before every time it goes out on the road?

Yes, it is, and it's up to the Gardai to enforce that, but it's something that i believe that rarely gets a conviction due to the excuse that it may have only happened 1 mile back the road.

If someone on a bike nearly gets taken out of it by another motorist, they should be willing to take the reg and make a complaint to the Gardai, but also willing to go to court with the complaint if necessary. Unless a Garda witnesses something themselves they can't go through with a prosecution without a witness.

I can't see what more can be done for to get motorists to help the situation, it's going to take complaints against them to get other motorists to be more aware. The driving test is a joke in fairness, anyone with an attention span of 15 minutes should be able to pass it. But it doesn't take into account other road users really. In a perfect world there would be a simulation test which would throw random "think-fast" moments, but that will never happen.

I'd just like to let it be known also that i'm not anti-biker. I love bikes, my father was a biker, i've 2 brothers who are members of an MCC, and another who used to be but got a different interest now. All 4 of them have been knocked off their bikes. One brother had a broken ankle, the other had his spine saved by the lead in the back of his jacket. I know all too well the dangers facing bikers on the road. But if there is any way to make it safer for them then i'm all for it, and if that includes suggestions to make them more visible then i'm all for that too.

daenerysstormborn3

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Yes, it is, and it's up to the Gardai to enforce that, but it's something that i believe that rarely gets a conviction due to the excuse that it may have only happened 1 mile back the road.

If someone on a bike nearly gets taken out of it by another motorist, they should be willing to take the reg and make a complaint to the Gardai, but also willing to go to court with the complaint if necessary. Unless a Garda witnesses something themselves they can't go through with a prosecution without a witness.

I can't see what more can be done for to get motorists to help the situation, it's going to take complaints against them to get other motorists to be more aware. The driving test is a joke in fairness, anyone with an attention span of 15 minutes should be able to pass it. But it doesn't take into account other road users really. In a perfect world there would be a simulation test which would throw random "think-fast" moments, but that will never happen.

If I was to take the reg of every motorist that I have a close call with everyday then I'd have a notebook full at the end of each day. I wish I was exaggerating and I wish I was being over the top but that is the reality of it. Aside from that, it's not exactly convenient to whip out your pen and jotter while driving a motorbike, particularly while trying to control your motorbike around some of the idiots on the road.

The test for your bike covers both car and bike questions, the same cannot be said of the car test.