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Does elite athletics matter?
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I usually enjoy the interviews on Marathon Talk, and the discussion of training techniques, even race strategies on there. But I don't find much to learn from watching a race. Yes, they run very fast, and yes, they try very hard. I will try to do both in my next race
But if I learn anything from the elites, it is more likely to be from hearing them talk than watching them run. 0 -
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Yes, they run very fast, and yes, they try very hard. I will try to do both in my next race But if I learn anything from the elites, it is more likely to be from hearing them talk than watching them run.
For me personally I find this baffling. athletics (especially running) is one of the few sports where you can empathize with the very best in the sport. One of the major appeals is that whether you are are a sub 2.10 marathon runner or struggling to break 6 or seven in a mile both feel the pain of pushing your body past your previous limits. It is a person against themeselves.
How many of us have been at the end of a race hurting and in the last 100m when you are giving it your everything in a 5k only to have someone brush by you and you know you have nothing to respond with. Looking at the expression on Farah's face in the 10k at Worlds kept seeing the same expressions and thoughts across his face that I have experience in races. Even looking at Jeilans express of jubilation of knowing he had the best of Farah and had nailed his tactics perfectly reminding me of another race etc.
If the people involved in the sport who can empathize exactly with the very best can't be bother what hope has the sport got in terms of a more general and sedentary audience.
Tactics are one of the things you learn most by watching and can learn a hell of alot from them believe it or not even when you are not aiming for a win sometimes tactics can make you run huge PBs you weren't in the shape to run. Likewise bad tactics can ruin a PB attempt0 -
For me personally I find this baffling. athletics (especially running) is one of the few sports where you can empathize with the very best in the sport. One of the major appeals is that whether you are are a sub 2.10 marathon runner or struggling to break 6 or seven in a mile both feel the pain of pushing your body past your previous limits. It is a person against themeselves.
That's what I meant by 'they try very hard', and my intention to do the same.
But is that 'learning' anything? I don't know. And if it is, you could probably learn the same thing from lots of other sports - that being great at something doesn't mean you find it easy, sometimes it means that you can live with it being hard better than the competition.Tactics are one of the things you learn most by watching and can learn a hell of alot from them believe it or not even when you are not aiming for a win sometimes tactics can make you run huge PBs you weren't in the shape to run. Likewise bad tactics can ruin a PB attempt
Yes, but... just in that recent example, Mo Farah's tactics - apparently he broke for the line too soon, too fast, and so was reeled in at the very end. Quite apart from the unlikelihood of me ever leading a track race in the last lap what lesson am I learning here? And what would I have learned from watching the race, as opposed to hearing about it?
More importantly, what am I learning that I don't learn better by racing myself?0 -
That's what I meant by 'they try very hard', and my intention to do the same.
But is that 'learning' anything? I don't know. And if it is, you could probably learn the same thing from lots of other sports - that being great at something doesn't mean you find it easy, sometimes it means that you can live with it being hard better than the competition.
No its probably not "learning anything" (unless you are watching training videos or something). My point was rather the fact that this sport is more condition based than skill based means that we are alot closer to elites than say a five - a - side regular would be to Messi. In the latter incidence you are seeing players do skills that you do not possess. Perhaps this is an appeal but to me the empathy is a huge attract abd motivation than no matter how badly I am running in a race there are lads who I will never be in the same league as that will experience the exact same thing mentally and will be going through the same mind processes of how to deal with it
Yes, but... just in that recent example, Mo Farah's tactics - apparently he broke for the line too soon, too fast, and so was reeled in at the very end. Quite apart from the unlikelihood of me ever leading a track race in the last lap what lesson am I learning here? And what would I have learned from watching the race, as opposed to hearing about it?
More importantly, what am I learning that I don't learn better by racing myself?
In my mind Farah ran perfect tactics but that is another discussion for another day. In terms of tactics watching distance races you can see how more endurance based athletes cope with speed based athletes. There are a few approaches and by watching races you can see which ones have some of the higher success rates. You can then apply them in your own races and work to your advantage no matter where in the field you are as you will start to notice people in races who are faster/ slower etc and use them as markers conciously or not.
One example from my experience was racing a friend who I knew was in better shape and alot sharper. Applied the tactics I though would suit best to try to get as near as possible to him. The result of this focus meant that I ran nearly 90 seconds quicker than I was targeting (5 mile race) and even though he was in better shape I managed to get within 3 seconds of him. We were not in the medals or prizes or anything but it still helped get the best out of me. Best way to learn tactics is see some of the best around (championship races are all about this) from them you can learn to apply them in your own racing and training0 -
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To be honest, it doesn't sound to me like you are learning tactics from watching elite athletics. You are learning from your own race experience. When you watch an elite race you don't go, "of course, the slower but stronger guy is reeling them in - I must try that in my next race!", you are enjoying watching the elite athletes employ the tactics that you learned yourself from racing and being coached.
(at a much higher level of course - when they surge, they really surge, and so on)
But that's enough mind-reading from me
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To be honest, it doesn't sound to me like you are learning tactics from watching elite athletics. You are learning from your own race experience. When you watch an elite race you don't go, "of course, the slower but stronger guy is reeling them in - I must try that in my next race!", you are enjoying watching the elite athletes employ the tactics that you learned yourself from racing and being coached.
(at a much higher level of course - when they surge, they really surge, and so on)
But that's enough mind-reading from me
More like if you see something enough you start to wonder why it works and wonder could it work for you but obviously a two part process.
Question is why do you have to "learn" from a race? How many people watch Ronaldo to learn how to step over or take a free kick?
(Can't believe I got sucked into this thread:pac:)0 -
Question is why do you have to "learn" from a race? How many people watch Ronaldo to learn how to step over or take a free kick?
(Can't believe I got sucked into this thread:pac:)
There is no escape
Sure, you don't have to learn from them at all! Most people watch most sports just because they enjoy watching, simple as that. The suggestion above (from you) is that all runners should be watching this stuff - until we learn to like it :mad: - because of the edumacational value 
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There is no escape
Sure, you don't have to learn from them at all! Most people watch most sports just because they enjoy watching, simple as that. The suggestion above (from you) is that all runners should be watching this stuff - until we learn to like it :mad: - because of the edumacational value
The point I was trying to make (I admit went off on a bit of a tangent alright) was rather the fact I was suprised that being able to empathize with athletes unlike other sports was an appeal in itself.
Again maybe its just the fact I have been involved in the sport as a whole for so long that I am blinded by my own love for the sport. Couldnt see myself doing anything unless I had a true love for it (more than just getting fit etc.). Admittedly I would have no problem watching the Comrades from start to finish and find 10ks and marathons great to watch so I am probably a rare breed0 -
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I usually enjoy the interviews on Marathon Talk, and the discussion of training techniques, even race strategies on there. But I don't find much to learn from watching a race. Yes, they run very fast, and yes, they try very hard. I will try to do both in my next race But if I learn anything from the elites, it is more likely to be from hearing them talk than watching them run.
But if you enjoy listening to elites talk about techniques and strategy, would the next logical thing not be to see them execute that in a race. Granted marathon is a little different to other events in that it's so long (I watched Arg vs Sco yesterday instead of Berlin) but there is much to be learned from other events.
I felt as an athlete it was important to be a student of the sport. I noticed now as a coach that athletes I coach are also very much students of their events. You may not get something out of every race or event but you will pick things up here and there. This applies to sub-elite or local events too, every competition can be a learning experience. Learning how to 'read' athletes in a race, how to 'read' a race, seeing a strategy that works for a certain type of athlete but not for another. Someone once told me that in this sport that the day you think there is nothing to learn is the day you will not progress.0 -
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--amadeus-- wrote: »I'm heading away for a weekends drunken debauchery and hungover biking so I thought I'd open a wee bit of debate to come home to
The vast bulk of us on here are active participants in the sport. We train, we race. The vast majority of us race exclusively on the roads at distances of 5k and up.
So apart from an in passing "oh thats interesting" way why should we care what a bunch of pros do? In particular why should regular runners and road racers care who can throw a lump of lead or a pointy stick furthest? After all angling is the most popular participant sport in the UK but the TV schedule (apart from the furthest reaches of the Discovery channel) is unblemished by fishing programs. Even the programs that there are focus on interesting fishing that anyone could do rather than competition. Clearly the interest isn't there to sustain elite fishing programs.
So why should there be an assumption that a runner should care about elite running? And why should that assumed interest extend to who can use a stick to jump over another really high stick?
Any second now someone will say that elite athletics is the pinnacle and that peak is supported by the grassroots, by clubs and the AAI so we are all an interconnected organic whole. But sure the last time we asked a sizeable number of people on here didn't even belong to a club and you could happily race every other week in events that are unconnected to the athletics infrastructure (either by permit or by club). And with the AAI ignoring the shambles that is race permitting they are clearly happy for the common or garden runner to grow away from the sport so why should we buy into what thier stars do?
See you all on Monday
Everybody on this board is so glad that you could take some time out of your busy schedule to grace us with your presence. I too am very busy so I might not get back to you until next Monday
See you then.
PS: Garmins are my favorite running tool. I guess we share many characteristics!0 -
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