mirosoft latest trick

Knasher

bpb101 wrote: »

how will you reinatall window .

The process on the DVD will be signed with the same keys as the actual Windows kernel. So it won't make a difference from a reinstalling point of view. One thing you won't be able to do is install older versions of Windows if you want to for whatever as obviously those kernels wouldn't be signed.

bpb101 wrote: »

or what the stroy with a linux pc and window 8 on a SECONDARY os .
in which linux was installed FIRST
any thoughts

Well the assumption is that you are able to install Linux at all. Which won't be the case for all laptops. If you are able to install Linux, then there shouldn't be an issue with dual booting with Windows 8. Remember this is a UEFI feature, so it is in the core of the PC and restricts what it will hand off to, it isn't something Windows needs in place before it will boot.

It wouldn't surprise me, if this thing goes ahead, that somebody figures out a flaw in the Windows boot process and uses it to substitute a Linux loader for a Windows one. Essentially you would be loading a part of Windows before interrupting it to switch to Linux. Not sure what the legality of that would be though.

bpb101

Knasher mention that old windows wont be able to be installed , which makes sense , but what happens if 8 is something simular to window vista and a lot of people used xp for many more years than windows wanted ie. people buy 8 , find out its sh-it and turn back to 7

bpb101

http://www.zdnet.com.au/linux-users-threaten-microsoft-with-accc-339323063.htm?tag=mantle_skin;content

Australian Linux user and kicking up a fuzz

bpb101

as window 8 draws closer Microsoft announces their requirements to OEM's
and omg ubuntu talk more on the secure boot

http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/microsoft-to-prevent-linux-booting-on-arm-hardware/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+d0od+%28OMG!+Ubuntu!%29

Galen

Microsoft to Prevent Linux Booting on ARM Hardware? http://bit.ly/AvC6S1

A Primal Nut

From article on OP's post.

For the roll out of Windows 8 Microsoft want to see Secure Boot enabled on all devices shipping with their name on by default.

So it will still be possible to disable Secure Boot is how I understand it. Much ado about nothing.

bpb101

A Primal Nut wrote: »

From article on OP's post.



So it will still be possible to disable Secure Boot is how I understand it. Much ado about nothing.

ON ARM -hardware it is a requirement , at the time of OP details were unsecured
but it seams it will be an option to disable the secure boot on other hardware.

Johnboy1951

So MS decided that they needed secure boot to be managed on PC hardware for their previous OSs ....... but on ARM devices they want it locked down so it cannot be disabled ..... thus preventing alternate OSs from being installed on those devices.

They seem to be gearing up for a contest in the ARM sector ....

bpb101

i say a big problem for this "great idea" is not just the people who are mad and just prefer and os became it free and simple better, what about RAID

Im not well up on RAID but as far a know you install that similarly to an os(as in not as a program but outside the current os)

would this not be a major problem for companies who want do a backup for on server ? (on arm-hw)

Johnboy1951

The question in my mind is ........ will the devices that MS decides it would like to have its OS made available on (and there is no need to go into how the importance of MS to any manufacturer can cause the manufacturer to comply with MS wishes) be acceptable to EU regulators ==== after all there will be an artificial block/hindrence placed on such devices to prevent any non approved OS being installed?

I hope the manufacturers who must, for commercial reasons, comply with the MS 'wish' at least make it a trivial matter to by-pass this restriction ...... maybe by placing an on-board link, similar to what we presently see on motherboards to clear cmos BIOS.

Johnboy1951

OSI wrote: »

I really cannot see the EU have any issue with this development. You don't see them jumping on the backs of HTC, Samsung or Apple for locking their device to their approved OS's do you?

Neither would I have a problem if MS manufactured their own hardware and placed their software on it.

That is what Apple etc do ....

bpb101

i fail to see how they legally just block out a larger majority of computer users because they don't like windows operating system.

There must be some law that forbids this stupidity

Just realy think what there doing for a minute in plain english

They want to forbid the use of another operating system and their bullying manufacturers into doing this ...

d31b0y

Yes, but it's all under the guise of security and protecting the consumer.

At the end of the day they are including a security feature and one which WILL stop BIOS hacks and other nasties out there.

The only thing that disappoints me is that they are forcing it on ARM infrastructure. But that truly is a make or break move for them. Either manufacturers will back them and run with Windows 8 or they will jump ship and go with an open source alternative.

Tablets will still exist with Android and other OS's. Hypothetically speaking, if you were in the market for a new touch-screen device and you found one with Windows 8 on it, would that make you want to buy it? It would certainly have to be a fantastic OS for me to consider it over the alternatives. And, in that case, if it was such a fantastic OS would you really want to flash a different OS onto it?

Similarities can be drawn between this and Apple's iOS. You can only run Apple software on Apple hardware (generally speaking) and this is going to bring MS down the same path.

Don't get me wrong though, I hate the whole idea of Secure Boot and I think it should be panned completely but it will either turn out to be a very clever move by MS or a very stupid and short sighted one. Only time can tell.

bpb101

I Dont think this will STOP hackers , may limit to just the os until they crack the bios by making windows install to the bios or something

d31b0y wrote: »

At the end of the day they are including a security feature and one which WILL stop BIOS hacks and other nasties out there.

ill agree with 1 thing here

d31b0y wrote: »

Only time can tell.

d31b0y

I think you may have read my post wrong, I should have been clearer. It will stop any current and similar future BIOS attacks because the code has to be signed before it will run.

I won't pretend to know the ins and outs and I am not naïve. I know it's only a matter of time before there are some sort bypasses in place. But isn't that the case with every system out there?

Don't get me wrong, I am completely against what they are doing and I hope it fails.

bpb101

d31b0y wrote: »

It will stop any current and similar future BIOS attacks because the code has to be signed before it will run.

sorry i thought you meant all , As in never again

Im not the best up on it myself as the information is quite vague
what is ARM-hardware- i got its hardware developed by arm but i never see it advertised on pcs and why will this secure boot only compulsory to be enabled on ARM?

Galen

Fortunately Samsung android phones are not locked and gradually HTC is unlocking theirs after they finally came to their senses.

ShooterSF

Knasher wrote: »

I agree in principle, the secure boot feature is a good idea and should be included, but only if it can be disabled by the user. My worry though stems from the view I think Microsoft is taking.

Currently one of the principle methods of Windows piracy involves loading something before handing off to the Windows kernel, which tricks it into thinking it is running on an OEM system. (Just FYI I've done work in a security field, hence why I'm familiar with how it is done, I did buy my copy of Windows) This method has been in use since Vista and AFAIK Microsoft still haven't found a way to close it. Secure boot would make this sort of piracy impossible, but only if Microsoft get their OEMs to not have the ability to disable the feature or load their own keys.

Given what Microsoft have to gain from this, and the fact that most legit non-Linux users won't even notice, I would be very surprised if Microsoft doesn't exploit this. I'd be surprised if Microsoft doesn't start encouraging the OEMs not to include the ability to disable or modify secure boot.

But the only machines with it switched on will come with a genuine copy of Windows installed and any site that offers pirated versions of the following OS will just need an extra paragraph explaining how to turn secure boot off first.
I do agree that in theory windows piracy probably ranks higher on their concern list than people switching to linux (sadly). But it stops neither.
I guess the problem is the worry that with very little effort and under the guise of security laptop manufacturers could start to lock down what OS you install quite easily if they chose to do so and Microsoft may become more hardline on the issue in the future when this method fails to prevent Windows 9 being pirated....

bpb101

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI5NzQ

Scruffles

bpb101 wrote: »

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI5NzQ

very interesting news indeed.

if people dont want the latest windows,they coud try buying the hardware from a store which doesnt preinstall OSs,upgrading laptops in near future and am planning to do that with mine,disgusting that we are forced to pay towards microsoft in the first place when we dont want to.

bpb101

Scruffles wrote: »

very interesting news indeed.

if people dont want the latest windows,they coud try buying the hardware from a store which doesnt preinstall OSs,upgrading laptops in near future and am planning to do that with mine,disgusting that we are forced to pay towards microsoft in the first place when we dont want to.

Yea we all plan that but then you see that i7 for a few hundred off with windows and there nothing you can do but buy it

rebeve

My move to Linux looks a better decision as the days roll on .

Galen

my sentiments exactly Why would one ever go back to windoze when you can have desktop that can look like win7, android, apple or whatever you like without all the bloat, malware, crapware and so on.