Is lievremont throwing the match against NZ? + Match Thread

handsomecake

Dropped harinordoquy, heymans, trinh duc and servat.

Is playing a scrum half (parra) at ten who hasn't played a club game there in 3 years.


If it works he is a genius.
If it fails they end up on the " easier" side of the draw.

Parra is classy but can he handle the back row running at him all day?
Are France taking a dive here?

northernpower

It seems like it, though after watching them against canada i don't think he needs to try to hard to throw it. I know who i'd rather have on our side of the draw anyway.

kraggy

OP, do you mean are they throwing it because they'll eventually meet Ireland in the semi final if they both get that far? (assuming Ireland top the group and win the quarter).

twinytwo

kraggy wrote: »

OP, do you mean are they throwing it because they'll eventually meet Ireland in the semi final if they both get that far? (assuming Ireland top the group and win the quarter).

No because he said if they were going to beat the abs it would only happen once... so point beating them in the group

Jawgap

No, I think he's just being inspired.........



.........but by what, I don't know.

duckysauce

inspired / insane . I reckon more insane we will see on Saturday.

greendom

There's talk that NZ might try to throw the game too. That would make for an interesting encounter;

"after you sir, no after you"

maddragon

The Monty Python students versus headmasters rugby match springs to mind.

JustinDee

handsomecake wrote: »

Dropped harinordoquy, heymans, trinh duc and servat.

Is playing a scrum half (parra) at ten who hasn't played a club game there in 3 years.


If it works he is a genius.
If it fails they end up on the " easier" side of the draw.

Parra is classy but can he handle the back row running at him all day?
Are France taking a dive here?

Its a good move. Yachvilli can also play there.
Its not like Lievremont has a choice. The only pivots in France worth a stab at international level are all foreigners. The downside of leasing the sport out to private-owners as a plaything.

padser

greendom wrote: »

There's talk that NZ might try to throw the game too. That would make for an interesting encounter;

"after you sir, no after you"

In a million years couldn't see NZ throwing a match to avoid a team.

They are the only team never to have lost a pool game (and they are proud of records, was surprised to hear macaw a few yrs back mention their record of never having lost to Ireland - wouldn't have thought they would even have noticed)

Their confidence is built around them being the best team - you can't have that and be trying to avoid teams

The press in nz would go mental if they lost their first real game of the wc

totallegend

It could just be a case of trying to get his best players onto the pitch; Parra and Yachvili are both top-class operators and both great at controlling the game, so maybe he's looking at having them swap in and out of the 10 position? Could backfire horribly though.

Other than that, it's not the weakest team; I'm continually baffled by how anyone can think Traille is anything near a test-level fullback but the three-quarter line is strong. I would never drop Harinordoquy from any team but Bonnaire is a decent replacement to bring in.

This could be the greatest tactical move in the history of rugby...

France team: Damien Traille, Vincent Clerc, Aurelien Rougerie, Maxime Mermoz, Maxime Medard, Morgan Parra, Dimitri Yachvili; Jean-Baptiste Poux, Dimitri Szarzewski, Luc Ducalcon, Pascal Pape, Lionel Nallet, Thierry Dusautoir (captain), Julien Bonnaire, Louis Picamoles.
Replacements: William Servat, Fabien Barcella, Julien Pierre, Imanol Harinordoquy, Francois Trinh-Duc, Fabrice Estebanez, Cedric Heymans

greendom

padser wrote: »

In a million years couldn't see NZ throwing a match to avoid a team.

They are the only team never to have lost a pool game (and they are proud of records, was surprised to hear macaw a few yrs back mention their record of never having lost to Ireland - wouldn't have thought they would even have noticed)

Their confidence is built around them being the best team - you can't have that and be trying to avoid teams

The press in nz would go mental if they lost their first real game of the wc

No I agree it won't happen; I'd heard it mentioned though.

Cypher_sounds

He doesn't need to try and throw the match.

greendom

Cypher_sounds wrote: »

He doesn't need to try and throw the match.

Have you forgotten 1999 and 2007 ?

cgpg5

greendom wrote: »

Have you forgotten 1999 and 2007 ?

Think the general consensus is that France have a better chance of beating New Zealand in the knock-out stages where the pressure will be greater on NZ. It was speculated before the tournament that he'd field a weakened team against the All Blacks in the group, as they felt they'd only beat them once and that would be in the final

DM360

I don't know would he throw the game. I remember seeing Servat get hit hard in the Canada game, think it was by the big beardy fella. I read an article where Lievremont he said Parra played well in the two matches he had to fill in as outhalf while Trinh-Duc was substandard and had to prove himself when he comes on against NZ. Not sure why Picamoles gets the nod over Harinordiquy, I would have thought Hari would have been suited to this style of game

ANXIOUS

No team wants to lose a game, no team has won it if they've lost a group game. England being the only team to get to the final after losing a group game.

pajunior

Apart from Parra at 10 (which could go down as one of those crazy inspired moments) and traille (who lievremont considers a starter) That is a very very strong team.

pat_mas

I don't agree with the first comment: France is not throwing the game.

Trinh-Duc has not been impressive so far and the combination Parra-Yachvilli seems to be working fine.
Bonnaire is on top of Harinordoquy atm (like it or not)
Dussautoir is in, so is Picamoles
Servat is on the bench but Szarzewski is no pushover
Traille is our FB but if things were to go bad, Heymans is still on the bench

How can one believe it's a weak team to face the ABs !?!

As a french supporter I'm quite delighted with this selection (based on what I've seen so far).

Allez Les Bleus

greendom

pat_mas wrote: »

I don't agree with the first comment: France is not throwing the game.

Trinh-Duc has not been impressive so far and the combination Parra-Yachvilli seems to be working fine.
Bonnaire is on top of Harinordoquy atm (like it or not)
Dussautoir is in, so is Picamoles
Servat is on the bench but Szarzewski is no pushover
Traille is our FB but if things were to go bad, Heymans is still on the bench

How can one believe it's a weak team to face the ABs !?!

As a french supporter I'm quite delighted with this selection (based on what I've seen so far).

Allez Les Bleus

Szarzewski would be my concern a big drop in quality compared to Servat. Also The Parra - Yachvilli combination has not really been tested yet. It will be for sure on Saturday.

PhatPiggins

greendom wrote: »

Szarzewski would be my concern a big drop in quality compared to Servat. Also The Parra - Yachvilli combination has not really been tested yet. It will be for sure on Saturday.

Every hooker in the northern hemisphere is a drop in quality compared to Servat but the ABs front row isn't exactly a world beater so France won't lose much ground there. Szarzewski has great hair though :pac:

Cypher_sounds

greendom wrote: »

Have you forgotten 1999 and 2007 ?

What I ment was they have the squad to be able to win the competition, they are capable of winning all their matches, however they dont always perform consistently enough on a game to game basis but this time could be different. We shall wait and see.

greendom

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Every hooker in the northern hemisphere is a drop in quality compared to Servat but the ABs front row isn't exactly a world beater so France won't lose much ground there. Szarzewski has great hair though :pac:

One area then, where France could have gained a real advantage. If he's carrying a slight injury then fair enough. If not, he should be playing

shaggykev

I think there is a touch to a Kerry Cork Munster final about this and France are Cork

They know they can't slay the dragon here as NZ will still be standing come quarter finals. Now do they want to go he'll for leather in this match and most importantly show NZ their hand in regards line runs and set pieces.

Lose & they face England, win and it's probably Argentina. Neither side, France have a particularly good record against so it's not going to concern them which of the two they face.

Lose, don't show your hand, sent NZ down against the other two tri nation sides in the hope one might take then out & if not, meet in the final looking a new team and all the pressure on the all blacks

BoarHunter

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Every hooker in the northern hemisphere is a drop in quality compared to Servat but the ABs front row isn't exactly a world beater so France won't lose much ground there. Szarzewski has great hair though :pac:

Szarzewski is quicker in the open game . Servat is better with the throws and in the scrum. Servat is back from injury and i suppose lievremont decided to keep him in the locker room for the knock outs.

As for Trinh Duc he has been appalling so far and a blow against the black could be very tough going for him.

Traille is there to secure Parra from the boot i suppose. It's a logical choice in a way. Heymans would have been in if Trinh Duc had played.

Other than that i think it's the best team with the given 30 players. A lot of guys who stayed in France would deserve a starting spot in my opinion ....

MungBean

I cant bloody wait for this game, its gonna be epic. Either France stick it to them and its a tight affair with flaring backs on either side or France implode and NZ make utter fools of them. Either one is a win in my book.

BoarHunter

I don't think we have the power to beat them in fairness but if we get a bonus point we are qualified so we might go for that. But I think for the 100 cap of McCaw and the revenge call I think NZL will be there to make a point.

NZL by 20+ hoping i'm wrong

d'Oracle

This will look great on the list of excuses trundled out by NZ if they don't win.

who the fug

Look we are talking about France, any 15 frogs will play the most sublime rugby on the day just to prove a point and beat anyone


It is impossible for the French to throw a match they don't know how to, as they don't know what team will show up

handsomecake

pat_mas wrote: »

the combination Parra-Yachvilli seems to be working fine.

explain?

handsomecake

Expand
Thierry Dusautoir will lead an under-strength French team against Richie McCaw's All Blacks at Eden Park. Photos / Getty Images



The French rugby team have been accused of making a farce of their Rugby World Cup clash with the All Blacks on Saturday night by naming a side without many of their stars.
The Eden Park match - considered by many as the best of the pool play - was the first pool game to sell out, with 60,000 fans paying up to $460 for a ticket.
The fact that France has been responsible for the All Blacks' early exit from two previous World Cups has fuelled interest in the match.
But French coach Marc Lievremont's naming of a drastically altered side - including halfback Morgan Parra making his first start as an international first-five - has disappointed ticket-holders and prompted others to suggest a fix.
In a column in today's Herald, British rugby writer Peter Bills, of the Independent group, says the selections devalue the most eagerly awaited cup game for four years.
"It is an insult to the 60,000 who have bought tickets expecting a real contest between teams at full strength," he writes.
He said Lievremont's Saturday team left out his entire first choice front row, one top lock and key back row man Imanol Harinordoquy.

Lievremont's selections showed he wanted to lose the match and stay in the side of the draw that will probably contain Northern Hemisphere teams, Bills says.
By doing so they would probably face Ireland or England on the road to the cup final, instead of the tougher South Africans or Australians.
"The IRB would appear powerless to stop this kind of manoeuvring. It is making a joke of the World Cup and officials should be concerned."
All Black fan Gregg Thorpe, who is going to the game, said the French selection was an obvious attempt to throw the match.
"It's wrong ... but we'll beat them where it counts - in the final."
Rugby forums and Twitter have lit up with speculation on the selection.
Former Welsh number eight Scott Quinnell summed up much of the sentiment when he tweeted: "Parra at 10 for France v NZ. Do you get the feeling that they would rather not win?"
Former England and British Lions centre Will Greenwood, who writes for the Daily Telegraph, tweeted last night: "Parra at 10 for France New Zealand ... 4 years of looking for his best fly half and he throws a scrum half the jersey."
When asked by French journalists if he was trying to manipulate the draw, Lievremont dismissed the notion.
"I don't think we will start thinking we want to lose, that's certainly not an option, even if it's easier - and the All Blacks might want to lose," he said.
"I don't think it is in the spirit of rugby to start a match thinking we are going to lose."
Geoff Haigh of Royal Oak paid about $2200 for tickets to the Eden Park pool matches for him and his son.
He said the All Blacks-France match was obviously the highlight of the package but that might not be the case now.
"You expect a few strategic choices, but it's disappointing, it's a game that on past history France should feel they can win. And maybe they don't particularly want to."
All Blacks fan Peter Bone said playing a halfback at first-five was an indication that the team was not as strong as possible.
"It's not on. It's the World Cup, and you've got to play it like you mean it."
An International Rugby Board spokesman declined to comment, saying the IRB did not comment on team selections.
- Additional reporting: Amelia Wade
By Nicholas Jones | Email Nicholas


Video Nick Farr-Jones - How to beat the French this Rugby World Cup

Video Nick Farr-Jones - Don't write off the Aussies in Rugby World Cup
Video Rugby World Cup: All Blacks prepare for clash against France
Video Le sigh: France more worried about Rugby World Cup quarterfinals

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matthew8

handsomecake wrote: »

explain?

IIRC against Japan they only got it together when Parra went to 10 and Yachvilli came on at 9.

It is downright ridiculous to suggest France are throwing this match.

thomond2006

Can we change the thread title to France vs NZ Match Thread? May as well....

The more I think on it, I don't see Parra at 10 as a very bad thing. He has slot in very well when he's played 20 minutes there and he is a quality player. While he's not played there for quite a while it's not an unknown position to him.

French number 9s seems to be the 'generals' of the team as opposed to the number 10s in most of the other sides so France will now have two leaders in the team. That's a very positive spin though, Carter and Nonu will relish challenging Parra in defense.

If this comes off, it's simply ingenious. However given Lievremont's strained relationship with the players, I can't see the players being happy with this selection. It's definitely a reactionary selection, otherwise it would have been tried in the Six Nations or during the warmups.

BoarHunter

everybody was laughing in France when Lievremont decided to have parra as a kicker and now he might the most accurate kicker of the world cup ... he is very young and learn quick. He was formed as a fly half in -20 in bourgoin so he might throw something out of the hat.

I am sure this will have the effect of getting the backs to have more ball so it won't be a bad thing for the crowd to watch.

.ak

I really can't see how this is a 'weak' side. If ML picked this side against England, Aus, or even SA then nothing more would be said about Parra's positional change apart from a few raised eyebrows. But because it's against the AB's in a potentially group determined match everyone's up in arms.

The worst part is if they do lose (which is likely) everyone will just presume the match was thrown.

Thing is, even if it is ML's intentions, there's 22 men in blue that'll want to win the match at any costs.

Judgement Day

Whatever the French are up to I, like a lot of other All Black fans, will be relieved when the boys win on Saturday. It's like supporting Munster - relief when the team wins rather than euphoria and doom, gloom and depression when they lose. Even in the Pro 12!

Judgement Day

According to NZ Herald http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10753438 this is the All Blacks team to face France - definitely the 1st team!

Starting XV:

1. Tony Woodcock (78 test caps)
2. Keven Mealamu (87)
3. Owen Franks (26)
4. Brad Thorn (54)
5. Sam Whitelock (20)
6. Jerome Kaino (43)
7. Richie McCaw - captain (99)
8. Adam Thomson (23)
9. Piri Weepu (51)
10. Daniel Carter (84)
11. Richard Kahui (14)
12. Ma'a Nonu (62)
13. Conrad Smith (50)
14. Cory Jane (28)
15. Israel Dagg (8)

Reserves:

16. Andrew Hore (57)
17. Ben Franks (12)
18. Ali Williams (68)
19. Anthony Boric (22)
20. Andy Ellis (22)
21. Colin Slade (7)
22. Sonny Bill Williams (9)

.ak

Judgement Day wrote: »

According to NZ Herald http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10753438 this is the All Blacks team to face France - definitely the 1st team!

Starting XV:

1. Tony Woodcock (78 test caps)
2. Keven Mealamu (87)
3. Owen Franks (26)
4. Brad Thorn (54)
5. Sam Whitelock (20)
6. Jerome Kaino (43)
7. Richie McCaw - captain (99)
8. Adam Thomson (23)
9. Piri Weepu (51)
10. Daniel Carter (84)
11. Richard Kahui (14)
12. Ma'a Nonu (62)
13. Conrad Smith (50)
14. Cory Jane (28)
15. Israel Dagg (8)

Reserves:

16. Andrew Hore (57)
17. Ben Franks (12)
18. Ali Williams (68)
19. Anthony Boric (22)
20. Andy Ellis (22)
21. Colin Slade (7)
22. Sonny Bill Williams (9)

No Vito on the bench?

handsomecake

.ak wrote: »

No Vito on the bench?

whitelock will be back row cover and ali williams to second row

handsomecake

matthew8 wrote: »

IIRC against Japan they only got it together when Parra went to 10 and Yachvilli came on at 9.

It is downright ridiculous to suggest France are throwing this match.

the poster seemed to insinuate the combination had been in effect for a while,when really they didnt even play a full half together against a tier 2 nation.

the global rugby media are suggesting that lievremont is playing silly buggers ......so it aint too ridiculous.


i think parra is class and it could well work but its curious in a 4 year world cup cycle to try a scrumhalf at 10 for the first time starting against the allblacks.

thomond2006

Sonny Bill, the ultimate impact sub.

handsomecake

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=10753512

CatFromHue

The more I look at the French team the stronger it gets

Traille v Dagg
Medard, Clerc v Kahui, Jane
Rougerie, Mermoz v Smith, Nonu
Parra, Yachvilli v Carter, Weepu
Picamoles, Bonnaire, Dusatoir v Thompson, McCaw, Kaino
Nallet, Pape v Thorn, Whitelock
Poux, Swarzseki, Ducalon, v Frank, Mealamu, Woodcock

Other than Parra at 10 that is a pretty good French team and pretty good pack.

Dagg is a very exciting player but has he played in such a high pressure match before?

Kahui on the wing won't have come up against wingers of the class of Clerc and Medard. They could potentially take him to town.

The centres will be a great tussle.

Carter obviously is better at 10 but the kiwis have struggled with their 9's. Cowan was in the driving seat but now doesn't make the 22. Yachvilli is a class act.

The back rows are very evenly matched but I think the French one shades it. The Kiwis have no 8 whereas Picamoles can be a fantastic 8. The jury is still out on Thompson at international level. He had a poor game against SA and left the pitch injured against OZ.

The French tight 5 is very strong as is the Kiwi one but Poux can and ore than likely will cause big problems at scrum time.

Goal kicking will be important too with Parra getting 9/10 against Canada and Yachvilli getting 7/9 against the Japanese. Carter got 4/6 against Tonga and in the tri nations got 13/17.

I think this game could be a cracker.

duckysauce

Judgement Day wrote: »

According to NZ Herald http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby-world-cup-2011/news/article.cfm?c_id=522&objectid=10753438 this is the All Blacks team to face France - definitely the 1st team!

Starting XV:

1. Tony Woodcock (78 test caps)
2. Keven Mealamu (87)
3. Owen Franks (26)
4. Brad Thorn (54)
5. Sam Whitelock (20)
6. Jerome Kaino (43)
7. Richie McCaw - captain (99)
8. Adam Thomson (23)
9. Piri Weepu (51)
10. Daniel Carter (84)
11. Richard Kahui (14)
12. Ma'a Nonu (62)
13. Conrad Smith (50)
14. Cory Jane (28)
15. Israel Dagg (8)

Reserves:

16. Andrew Hore (57)
17. Ben Franks (12)
18. Ali Williams (68)
19. Anthony Boric (22)
20. Andy Ellis (22)
21. Colin Slade (7)
22. Sonny Bill Williams (9)

looks weak

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

Sonny Bill, the ultimate impact sub.

I thought that was ROG?

Podge_irl

New Zealand media and former France internationals are bashing Lievremont for picking halfback Morgan Parra at first five-eighths - he has never started there before - and for leaving his best forward, hooker William Servat, on the bench.

France's best forward is Harinordoquy, by a fair margin. Leaving him on the bench is madness, though it's not the first time ML has done it.

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

France's best forward is Harinordoquy, by a fair margin. Leaving him on the bench is madness, though it's not the first time ML has done it.

I really don't think Harinordoquy is all that better than Servat. In fact I'd say Servat has played better for France than Hari in recent times.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I really don't think Harinordoquy is all that better than Servat. In fact I'd say Servat has played better for France than Hari in recent times.

Fair enough, I do. Mind you, I would agree that the gap from Servat to Szarzewski is larger then the gap from Harinordoquy to his replacements.

My point is more that it's impossible to tell whether this is ML throwing the game or ML just being ML.

O.

As a French I really don't think we're throwing the game.

Look our team seriously, we placed the players who did the best games recently. And the others as Servat or Harinordoquy are on the bench as impact players.

The main thing worrying NZ journalists is our 10 apprently?
But see, Skrela is injured and back in France. We only have one 10 left and he did pretty bad matches in this world cup, his worsts in fact.

We unlocked our two previous matches when Yachvili and Parra played together. So is that unlogical to match them again?

Even the NZ coach is carefull in his interview, our players all have stong experience in National team and are on a very good form.

And I'm not sure it would be easier for us to lose the game, don't forget England put us out of the three last world cups
They're are our real Nemesis with their ****ing closed game.

And if Ireland plays at his high level, it would be a very tight game and certainly not so easy as many think.
I'm more afraid of the Irish team in a world cup semi final than Australia seriously. They have no way to resist our scrum unlike Ireland

JustinDee

Never mind what the Kiwi media says. They're feeling the pressure as much as their national squad. The fear of failure yet again is increasing each week, as predicted by anyone who knows anything about NZ and NZ rugby.

pickarooney

If dropping the frankly woeful Trinh-Duc is tantamount to throwing a match, what exactly do you do to win it? A well-used bench might turn this game around.