A.P.S.

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

Hello everyone.

I've been on the 'Airsoft' forum lately and I'm seeing a lot of stuff about the airsoft manufacter A.P.S. (Accuracy Pneumatics Shooting), who make electric blowback airsoft rifles.

I'm just wondering as I may want a A.P.S. ASK205 airsoft rifle later in the future, what are the ADVANTAGES and DISADVANTAGES of A.P.S., or what are your LIKES and DISLIKES about A.P.S.

All comments are appreciated, thank you.

Leftyflip

Advantages: Cheap.

Disadvantages:
1 - Gearbox shell is crap, I've seen loads of cracked one's over the past few months.
2 - Piston is crap - it strips very easily, very, very easily.

3 - They use the wrong spring and cylinder assembly. An M100 with a full cylinder in their M4s.

4 - The hop rubbers are way too stiff, seriously, they're stiffer than a priest in a nursery.

5 - The tappet plates, anti reversal latches and switch assemblies are slightly, bigger/smaller than others.

6 - You cannot fit an aftermarket shell into an APS receiver.

7 - They use really bad plastic bushings in the shell and they crack.

8 - The switch blocks melt very easily, they can't handle the heat from the current, the contacts also burn out.

9 - The blowback plate cracks after a few thousand rounds.

10 - They use a stupid bástard hex screw in the stock tube on the M4's.

I've probably missed something, but ah well.

I hate them - with a passion, stay well away, far better guns out there.

dereksnake

Advantages:

1 - High Quality PolyFiber Hand Guard / Butt Stock / Real Wood instead of Cheap ABS / Plywood

2 - Very Accurate in Shooting Compare to other Airsoft Gun

3 - Advanced Air Flow System and Anti Reverse Latch Design inside the Gear Box

4 - Standard comes with Stainless Steel Cylinder, Inter Barrel, Silver Electric Wires

5 - Standard comes with Electric Blow Back where most of the other guns are AEG only

I owned a APS AK and CYMA AK, Those two guns are the best AK I have ever seen

Disadvantages:

1 - Hard to find parts and replacement locally, mostly need to buy parts from overseas

2 - Not Li Po Ready, You need to upgrade it before using Li Po

3 - Some Parts are not compatible with other brand name, but just some, not all

$kilkenny

dereksnake wrote: »

Advantages:


Disadvantages:

2 - Not Li Po Ready, You need to upgrade it before using Li Po

there is no gun ever made lipo ready, 7.4v yes, 11.1 lipo which is what most people mean god no
every gun needs some sort of upgrades to make it lipo ready, and running a 11.1 lipo in a blow back is kinda asking for trouble

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

$kilkenny wrote: »

there is no gun ever made lipo ready, 7.4v yes, 11.1 lipo which is what most people mean god no
every gun needs some sort of upgrades to make it lipo ready, and running a 11.1 lipo in a blow back is kinda asking for trouble

Who would even try to use a 11.1V LIPO, you would be crazy to even try!

Firekitten

dereksnake wrote: »

Advantages:

1 - High Quality PolyFiber Hand Guard / Butt Stock / Real Wood instead of Cheap ABS / Plywood

2 - Very Accurate in Shooting Compare to other Airsoft Gun

3 - Advanced Air Flow System and Anti Reverse Latch Design inside the Gear Box

4 - Standard comes with Stainless Steel Cylinder, Inter Barrel, Silver Electric Wires

5 - Standard comes with Electric Blow Back where most of the other guns are AEG only

I owned a APS AK and CYMA AK, Those two guns are the best AK I have ever seen

Disadvantages:

1 - Hard to find parts and replacement locally, mostly need to buy parts from overseas

2 - Not Li Po Ready, You need to upgrade it before using Li Po

3 - Some Parts are not compatible with other brand name, but just some, not all

You reading off thier website?

1, the wood is pretty naff,

2, accurate? yes, compared to flicking a spoon at someone.

3, Advanced airflow system? yes, that's when the APS company talk about the products, its a revolutionary system called 'hot air'. The anti reversal latch is however, nifty. Me likey.

4, Silver? perhaps, but the insulation strips like Katie Price after a bottle of cheap wine.

5, by standard comes with blowback... i'd hope so, they bill them as blowback rifles, though unlike others, they turn INTO aegs after a few thousand rounds like lefty said.

The parts quality in my experience as an airsoft engineer, is pretty shoddy. Miss sized, poor o ring sizing on the piston, and some weak designs, like the blowback arm.

As for running an 11.1 lipo... NO. Don't even think about it. ROF kiddies, white bb layzor lightsabre weilders, I'm talking to you. These guns just won't handle it. The increased shock imparted on the gearbox, will munch your blowback (seen it kill 5) and smash the front off the shell. The gun cannot handle it. Can handle 7.4 alright though, which is bags of bang for your buck.

my personal opinion?
Blowback g&g raider, toptech, or CA are more safe bets.

Though you already said you own an ASR 103 (to the OP), so I suspect like the gas topic, your mind is already made up.

Leftyflip

.K.A.L.I.M.A. wrote: »

Who would even try to use a 11.1V LIPO, you would be crazy to even try!

Well crazy to use it in an APS anyway - VFC will take them no bothers, with some sense.

Bobby Baccala

one of my friends has an aps m4 its not too bad. hes bringin it up to hrta on the weekend

NakedDex

.K.A.L.I.M.A. wrote: »

Who would even try to use a 11.1V LIPO, you would be crazy to even try!

I have three rifles routinely using 11.1V LiPos. Apparently I'm really crazy because I both tried and succeeded...

Leftyflip

NakedDex wrote: »

I have three rifles routinely using 11.1V LiPos. Apparently I'm really crazy because I both tried and succeeded...

Makes two of us so!

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

Still, I wouldn't even try a 11.1V LIPO, 7.4V... maybe, but I'll stick with NIMH for a while now.

Some airsoft rifles might take a 11.1V all right, but even if I had the best airsoft rifle on the market that said it could take a 11.1V no bother, I still wouldn't chance it, it will just wear your gearbox faster.

Firekitten

Mentality fail.


Just because you HAVE full auto. Doesn't mean you must use it to exlusion of all else.

a player using 11.1v for semi and taps, with occasional short bursts, willl have a gearbox that wears SLOWER than Mr Sprayanator with an 8.4v nimh.

NakedDex

You'd swear 11.1V packs were portable nuclear fission reactors, the way some people think of them.

Right, here's the breakdown.
8.4V/9.6V NiCd packs perform exactly the same way as NiMH packs. The difference, for all intents and purposes, is the charge rate. The NiMH packs are designed to rapid charge, so a five hour charge becomes a thirty minute charge.
There are slight differences in discharge rate too, but it's insignificant.
The NiCd can only trickle-current charge and the NiMH can only high-current charge. This doesn't stop uncaring fools using rapid chargers on NiCD packs, and slow chargers on NiMH packs of course, but that's their own problem.

LiPo packs are in use in far more devices than NiMH or NiCD. They're cheaper (to make, not necessarily to buy), lighter and provide more power relative to size. They're not as abhorrently fragile and prone to spontaneous and catastrophic explosion as some people portray. If they were, every drunken idiot with a phone would have third degree burns by now as it's the battery pack of choice for all digital electronics (alongside Li-ion for bigger applications).
In airsoft, they also behave in virtually the same way as any other power pack option. A three-cell pack provides 7.4V and a four-cell pack provides 11.1V. Due to the ability to provide much higher current flow, the smaller 7.4V pack operates like a fully charged 8.4V conventional cell pack (not a 9.6V, that wouldn't calculate sensibly).
The 11.1V pack provides less current than the 7.4V, due to the increased nominal voltage (y'see, it's about power, not current or voltage...). As such, there's less current on the cable so it's actually safer.
Put in a MOSFET controller and it's down to mA of activation current on the trigger, and regulated flow to the motor - safer again. Now swap the wiring to the motor for a slightly higher gauge (silver wire in an airsoft application is the silliest thing I've ever heard as a supposed selling point, but it's the mugs who think it's great without understanding that I find amusing), something like 16/14AWG copper with a silicon insulation - higher gauge with lower current and better insulation means we've become even safer.
While we're at it, let's change the battery connectors for low-resistance ones, like Deans connectors - lower resistance means less heat generated at the connection points, which makes us yet safer again.

So while a LiPo user pulls the trigger on his/her AEG and sends about 20mA through the trigger, down large CSA wiring with improved connectors to send a clean and regulated flow of power to the motor, the NiCd/NiMH user - that's you - sends a spike current of about 35-55A (depending on the pack and gearbox) across small trigger contacts, down a small cable directly to the motor.

In effect, LiPo is the much safer and more controlled option, even on 11.1V. Whether the gears/piston wear faster is entirely up to whether you play with the trigger taped on and the fire selector welded to Auto, or whether you're willing to make a few minor changes to your rifle to allow it to happen.

Not to generalise, but the majority of LiPo users actually choose LiPo because they fire on semi most of the time and couple the pack with high torque motors and MOSFETs to enhance trigger response. It's the numpties with Stubby Killers and/or boxmags who are going to wear down gearboxes.
In short, it's not the pack that determines your rifle's life span, it's your method of using it and how good the parts were in the first place (in the case of APS: rubbish... just to drag this on topic).

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

I still wouldn't use a LIPO, but as NakedDex, if I did do that to my AEG, I might consider it, but I only got a NIMH battery and charger about three months ago up in AirsoftEire, so I don't have enough money for a LIPO battery and charger.

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

Back to the point.....

After reading some of these posts, some people like A.P.S., some hate A.P.S, and some people think A.P.S. is all right, but for me, I do like A.P.S. airsoft rifles. Yes, I did have a problem with mine, but it was only the fuse which was a easy fix.

I also like the...:

--- Price.
--- Full metal.
--- Unique polymer butt stock with side rail and rubber butt stock cover (Can hold batteries and other stuff)
--- Polymer Tangodown pistol grip.
--- Flip up front and rear sights (A.P.S. ASR103 model).
--- If I'm correct, I love the 10.5" outer barrel, I just don't like the normal outer barrel you would find on a M4.

Firekitten

The stock isnt unique, its based on an FAB design, from Israel, of a tactical stock for the m4 series. and you'll find better metal and plastic/polymers on other models.

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

Firekitten wrote: »

The stock isnt unique, its based on an FAB design, from Israel, of a tactical stock for the m4 series. and you'll find better metal and plastic/polymers on other models.

Yes, I see, the stocks aren't a 1:1 scale, but I still do think that the metal and polymer on the A.P.S. AEGs are great for the price.

When I was buying my third airsoft rifle, I was looking for something full metal, R.I.S. handguard and a CQB outer barrel.

I didn't really matter for the blowback, bolt-lock function, flip-up sights, I could keep going on.....

Got more for my money when I bought my A.P.S. ASR103. Also, there was a '15% off over €200' at M.I.A. a while ago in the Summer, managed to get the AEG with a packet of Raptor pellets, only around €233.

Leftyflip

Don't use Raptors, for the sake of your hop and barrel don't...

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

Leftyflip wrote: »

Don't use Raptors, for the sake of your hop and barrel don't...

Well there all gone now, and thank God. Two of them actually managed to break my friend's G36 magazine.

Bobby Baccala

i have seen raptors literally rip apart the innards of an aimtop m4 but then again
a 3 year old child could break one of them abominations

thermo

raptors............... CRAPTORS more like, avoid like a leper...........

Firekitten

stock isnt 1:1 scale? I've had a few of those 103's in for work, and they do seem the right size to me... the fab is meant to be a bit chunky and oversized compared to a normal m4, if thats what you mean, its designed to fit better over body armour ,and not slip or dig in.

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

Firekitten wrote: »

stock isnt 1:1 scale? I've had a few of those 103's in for work, and they do seem the right size to me... the fab is meant to be a bit chunky and oversized compared to a normal m4, if thats what you mean, its designed to fit better over body armour ,and not slip or dig in.

Please look at the pictures below:


FAB butt stock.


APS ASR series butt stock.

1:1 scale, I don't think so. Yes, they do look the same but it isn't point on 1:1 scale.

Firekitten

Kalima, Listen to me.

I HAVE a FAB stock. I've got an aps here that I'm working on. Its identical.

The stock tube on the FAB you compare the aps to, is the addon folding AK stock adaptor. Which is missing the lump at the bottom of the tube. Thats why it looks bigger.

Its not


its identical.

Aps difference? They bolted a bit of ris to one side and one or two moulding issues, like the front sling loop. thats it.

thermo

Firekitten wrote: »

Kalima, Listen to me.

I HAVE a FAB stock. I've got an aps here that I'm working on. Its identical.

The stock tube on the FAB you compare the aps to, is the addon folding AK stock adaptor. Which is missing the lump at the bottom of the tube. Thats why it looks bigger.

Its not


its identical.

Aps difference? They bolted a bit of ris to one side and one or two moulding issues, like the front sling loop. thats it.

to be fair id have to agree, anyway why are we doing so much talking about these guns (APS) they are a horrible gun, which are poorly designed and constructed, even worse than a classic army sportline (wow, that is saying something).

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

There alright airsoft rifles. You get what you pay for.

Bobby Baccala

did you dig this up just to say that?

Italianstyle

Ive had my A.P.S M4 for a year now and have yet to have ANY problems with it and mine is the batch that had the trigger switch problem which alot of other makes have. Ive owned alot of different makes over the years and i have to say that this A.P.S is the best ive had. The old versions ill admit were'nt the best but thats just they were teething problems. Ive had my gearbox open already to check for any wear and to see what the insides are like and havent seen any signs of the piston wearing.

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

I only had one minor problem with mine, which was a blown fuse and it seems it happened to me again only a few days ago and I can't be bothered sending it back to the retailer so I'm deciding to buy a ULTIMATE complete gearbox after Christmas.

Just going to replace the gearbox and keep the external of the A.P.S. airsoft rifle, as the metal on them are the best thing I've ever seen.

Leftyflip

.K.A.L.I.M.A. wrote: »

I only had one minor problem with mine, which was a blown fuse and it seems it happened to me again only a few days ago and I can't be bothered sending it back to the retailer so I'm deciding to buy a ULTIMATE complete gearbox after Christmas.

Just going to replace the gearbox and keep the external of the A.P.S. airsoft rifle, as the metal on them are the best thing I've ever seen.

Good luck getting it to fit properly - I tried several different shells in one, they didn't fit.

As for externals, G&G and VFC are far far superior. Now I think of it, so are Dboys.

Puding

as the metal on them are the best thing I've ever seen.

you have not really seen much then

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

Haven't really seen much but my friend will be getting his KWA LMT Defender M4 tomorrow so I'll have to have a look at that during the weekend.

As for the gearbox, did you try a ULTIMATE Gearbox in a A.P.S. airsoft rifle or a certain one like a JG, DBoys etc...???

Italianstyle

I wouldn't change the gearbox in them at all. The only upgrade would be to put in new shims and better bearings. As for the blown fuse, its prob got a nip in the wires and is shorting out. I just fixed one today with the same thing. And no its not a fault with the gun before anyone says it.

Bobby Baccala

.K.A.L.I.M.A. wrote: »

Haven't really seen much but my friend will be getting his KWA LMT Defender M4 tomorrow so I'll have to have a look at that during the weekend.

As for the gearbox, did you try a ULTIMATE Gearbox in a A.P.S. airsoft rifle or a certain one like a JG, DBoys etc...???

why would you put a jg gearbox in it?

Leftyflip

.K.A.L.I.M.A. wrote: »

Haven't really seen much but my friend will be getting his KWA LMT Defender M4 tomorrow so I'll have to have a look at that during the weekend.

As for the gearbox, did you try a ULTIMATE Gearbox in a A.P.S. airsoft rifle or a certain one like a JG, DBoys etc...???

Tried Dboys , JG, SRC, VFC and a Cyma shell, all would have required modification to fit.

as for making an APS decent. New barrel and hop, piston, cylinder, spring, spring guide, bushings, shims, new trigger contacts, basically everything.

Bobby Baccala

Leftyflip wrote: »

Tried Dboys , JG, SRC, VFC and a Cyma shell, all would have required modification to fit.

as for making an APS decent. New barrel and hop, piston, cylinder, spring, spring guide, bushings, shims, new trigger contacts, basically everything.

New gun?:D:D

$kilkenny

lol and thats only to make them decent....
nearly the price of a G&G proline there.

OddysAirsoft

The new version 2 APS guns have all new internals that are 100% TM compatible. They are completely redesigned internally with a built in Mossfet to control the juice. They have moved to full metal bushings too.Also they have redesigned the hop unit. Externally the build quality is superb, the only down side being the Mag Well is too big for most mags but that is easily fixed! The big point of this gun is the price and its market entry. It is a budget, sport line gun and for the money there is very little out there to touch it. G&G plastic range maybe - but tbh I think G&G have let slide their quality control because most of the G&G we have tested lately have failed with in hours of playing -from high end to low! So many people knock a product who have never even used it - I can hand on my heart say I have used them on a number of occasions. Would I buy one -no! Why? Because I like to own high end guns - that's all! Would I recommend them -absolutely! To the right airsofter!

Thermo wrote:

which are poorly designed and constructed, even worse than a classic army sportline

I know Thermo knows a bit about guns, so I am surprised he comes out with a statement like this - because after reading that, and if that's his honest opinion - I would have to start to question his gun knowledge! Classic Army sportline? Seriously?


To finish - just look at it this way - if you were to take EVERY single budget gun on the market in the same price bracket as the APS and independently tested each and everyone - I think you would find the APS would be nearer the top end of those tested than the bottom!

Sheep, sheep, sheep, crocodile, sheep!

Leftyflip

OddysAirsoft wrote: »

I know Thermo knows a bit about guns, so I am surprised he comes out with a statement like this - because after reading that, and if that's his honest opinion - I would have to start to question his gun knowledge! Classic Army sportline? Seriously?

Now before I go into anything - I'm not disagreeing with you for the sake of it.
Thermo is right in his statement. I've had more APS guns on my desk than CA Sportlines. I'd sooner buy a Sportline than an APS.

Common Sportline failures are the spur gear and piston. Easily and cheaply replaced. Common APS failures are the gearbox shell cracking at the front, the switch assembly melting. Spring guide breaking and putting plastic shards all over the gearbox, the wiring frying. The "bolt" plate breaking, the "bolt carrier" breaking, the spring for the same breaking.

Just saying...

I'm at a roughly 3:1 ratio of APS to other brands at the moment. In having said that I've two Raiders in the queue that need to be fixed. One after being used almost every weekend for 18 months and one which has an issue which was never resolved by a previous tech. But the APS guns just top the list for being sub par and having horrible failures, many failing within the first 6-8 games from what I've seen.

thermo

OddysAirsoft wrote: »

I know Thermo knows a bit about guns, so I am surprised he comes out with a statement like this - because after reading that, and if that's his honest opinion - I would have to start to question his gun knowledge! Classic Army sportline? Seriously?

to be honest i had based my opinion on the gen 1 stuff having worked on several of the first ones in the country i found the internals to be poor and based my opinion on that. i dont need to chronicle the faults with the gen 1 set ups, they are widely known.
i have not worked on the new gen 2 (infact i was unaware they had released redesigned guns) yet. but i look forward to getting a look at one first hand and maybe even actually opening it up and having a proper look to see what they are like and how they have been improved.

.K.A.L.I.M.A.

thermo wrote: »

to be honest i had based my opinion on the gen 1 stuff having worked on several of the first ones in the country i found the internals to be poor and based my opinion on that. i dont need to chronicle the faults with the gen 1 set ups, they are widely known.
i have not worked on the new gen 2 (infact i was unaware they had released redesigned guns) yet. but i look forward to getting a look at one first hand and maybe even actually opening it up and having a proper look to see what they are like and how they have been improved.

Seesm they did released a new Gearbox:
http://www.airsoftaps.com/catalog/news.php?osCsid=26925e6d676fbb2edcbe56ec5aaf7a4b

thermo

.K.A.L.I.M.A. wrote: »

Seesm they did released a new Gearbox:
http://www.airsoftaps.com/catalog/news.php?osCsid=26925e6d676fbb2edcbe56ec5aaf7a4b

AND?? i still would'nt buy one without looking at an open one first.

OddysAirsoft

Myself and Chris opened the new version of the gearbox - found out some really interesting stuff too - not is all good in the camp with the new guns but the gear box is a massive improvement! I have videoed the whole process and will be doing a series of vids on the new APS guns - an M4 and an AK.