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Coldplay 2012 Tour

  • 18-09-2011 7:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭


    Anyone know when Coldplay will be announcing a tour supporting Mylo Xyloto?

    I think I read somewhere they won't be touring until next year (2012), but will the dates be announced at the time of the album's release?

    I saw them at Oxegen this year and would absolutely love to go to their own gig.

    Presumably they will play Ireland in the summer as they are too big for the likes of the O2 now. Maybe a Croke Park/Punchestown/Aviva gig would be a possibility. Should be one of the three.


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    I read somewhere that there is a big announcement coming next week from the band. So i presume it will be the tour being announced


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭aka accounts 2010


    karaokeman wrote: »
    Anyone know when Coldplay will be announcing a tour supporting Mylo Xyloto?

    I think I read somewhere they won't be touring until next year (2012), but will the dates be announced at the time of the album's release?

    I saw them at Oxegen this year and would absolutely love to go to their own gig.

    Presumably they will play Ireland in the summer as they are too big for the likes of the O2 now. Maybe a Croke Park/Punchestown/Aviva gig would be a possibility. Should be one of the three.

    I wouldn't totally rule out an O2 date although it is unlikely. After all RHCP are playing there in November!!!!

    Anybody think that Coldplay could be in the mix for Slane next year. The Slane announcement was made in mid October last year and the new album is due out at the end of October this year. Could a Slane announcement be made to correspond with the release of the Coldplay album??? Just a thought.

    If not Slane, I would expect a gig at the Aviva, possibly in late June 2012.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,220 ✭✭✭bren2001


    I would love a small gig like the o2. Saw them at Oxegen and thought they were excellent. Gave everything they had. Realistically they will be at Slane or do the Croke Park gig next year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    I wouldn't totally rule out an O2 date although it is unlikely. After all RHCP are playing there in November!!!!

    I'll admit there is a small possibility of Coldplay returning to the O2 but I'd be more expecting this tour to be largely stadium-based.

    I'd say if the tour was announced earlier in the year, there would be a greater chance of another O2 date. Many bands seem to play the arenas here in the autumn/winter and then return in the summer for stadium/park shows.
    Green Day did it with the O2 followed by a Marley Park gig.
    Muse did it with an O2 date followed by Oxegen.
    Oasis did it with the Odyssey and then returned for Slane.
    And of course Coldplay did on their last tour and played the Phoenix Park in 2009.

    Slane I'm not sure if it will go ahead next year seen as how the recent pattern has been a concert every 2 years. Rolling Stones in 07, Oasis in 09 and Kings of Leon in 11.

    I think Croke Park would be most probable. Chris Martin is a massive U2 fan so I'd imagine he looks up to U2 for their Croker gigs and would want his band to follow in their footsteps.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    Id say it will be an arena tour early in the new year and maybe followed by an outdoor show during the summer


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭aka accounts 2010


    I think Slane will take place next year, it's too much of a money maker for Henry Mountcharles. Plus the official Slane Castle website seems to be confirming it will occur - http://www.slanecastle.ie/castle/castle_slane2012.php

    Coldplay would be ideal for it. It would sell out in minutes I think. It would be great if they could include 1 or 2 nights in the O2 in Jan/Feb before returning for a big summer gig!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 586 ✭✭✭kmurph


    They've just announced indoor shows for December in the UK & mainland Europe. No sign of an Irish show yet though. Hopefully something will be announced later in the week.

    http://www.coldplay.com/newsdetail.php?id=793


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭aka accounts 2010


    kmurph wrote: »
    They've just announced indoor shows for December in the UK & mainland Europe. No sign of an Irish show yet though. Hopefully something will be announced later in the week.

    http://www.coldplay.com/newsdetail.php?id=793

    Surely safe to assume that the O2 will be added for sometime in January 2012!!!!Seems like the schedule is pretty full until Christmas.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    Surely safe to assume that the O2 will be added for sometime in January 2012!!!!Seems like the schedule is pretty full until Christmas.

    It would be too late for them to announce an O2 date before christmas now, thats the problem.

    I still think Croke Park is the most likely venue they will play. And just because it says on Slane's website "be the first to know who's playing Slane 2012" that doesn't mean there will be a concert.

    Henry said there would be a concert in 2010 and yet there wasn't, we probably won't know about Slane until the new year but thats off-topic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭aka accounts 2010


    karaokeman wrote: »
    It would be too late for them to announce an O2 date before christmas now, thats the problem.

    I still think Croke Park is the most likely venue they will play. And just because it says on Slane's website "be the first to know who's playing Slane 2012" that doesn't mean there will be a concert.

    Henry said there would be a concert in 2010 and yet there wasn't, we probably won't know about Slane until the new year but thats off-topic.

    I still think an O2 date will be confirmed. The announcement this morning was all Arena dates with no mention of a Wembley Stadium or Hyde Park gig. They might play the O2 in London in Dec and play a big outdoor gig in July so why not play an O2 gig here in January 2012 and Croke Park or the Aviva in July or August!!!

    I take your point with regards Slane, it's not a dead cert by any means. Although, if it does go ahead, don't be surprised with a pre-Christmas announcement. It was announced on 26th Oct last year and given the state of the country, Henry might make an announcement in Nov/Dec when some people may have some cash built up rather than announce something in early Jan when €80 a ticket just cannot be spared by people!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 586 ✭✭✭kmurph


    Surely safe to assume that the O2 will be added for sometime in January 2012!!!!Seems like the schedule is pretty full until Christmas.
    4 days between the Manchester & London shows. Dublin could be doable then or kick off the tour in Dublin & Belfast at the end of November. Play Dublin, then Belfast then across the water to Scotland.

    The O2 looks to be free from Nov 27 to Dec 15. Although January & February both look pretty empty.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    Yea i still think they might do the O2. They did it last time played O2 around X-Mas then came back to the Pheonix Park in Sept.

    Without hi-jacking this as another Slane thread but Mountcharles should be clever to announce who is playing Slane leading up to christmas(unless there is no Slane) since people might buy ticket for peoples x-mas presents etc


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭argentum


    they have just announced extra gigs before christmas across Europe but still nothing for Dublin.They wont have room before christmas to fit in Dublin unless they put us at the start of the tour


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭aka accounts 2010


    argentum wrote: »
    they have just announced extra gigs before christmas across Europe but still nothing for Dublin.They wont have room before christmas to fit in Dublin unless they put us at the start of the tour

    I reckon a Dublin date is already in place behind the scenes for January 2012 but MCD are keeping it quiet until next week so that it doesn't effect negatively on ticket sales for Snow Patrol on Friday which is also a January gig.

    If Coldplay were announced today for the O2 in January, then people would have to more than likely choose between the two and sales would suffer..Don't be surprised that when the majority of Snow Patrol tickets are snapped up, an announcement about Coldplay appears!!!


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    I reckon a Dublin date is already in place behind the scenes for January 2012 but MCD are keeping it quiet until next week so that it doesn't effect negatively on ticket sales for Snow Patrol on Friday which is also a January gig.

    If Coldplay were announced today for the O2 in January, then people would have to more than likely choose between the two and sales would suffer..Don't be surprised that when the majority of Snow Patrol tickets are snapped up, an announcement about Coldplay appears!!!

    Yea thats probably right. Since Coldplay and Snow Patrol have a similar fanbase and since people might not have as much money anymore they would have to choose either one. So maybe give it 1 or 2 weeks till Coldplay is announced


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    karaokeman wrote: »
    Slane I'm not sure if it will go ahead next year seen as how the recent pattern has been a concert every 2 years. Rolling Stones in 07, Oasis in 09 and Kings of Leon in 11.

    I think Croke Park would be most probable. Chris Martin is a massive U2 fan so I'd imagine he looks up to U2 for their Croker gigs and would want his band to follow in their footsteps.
    Even more reason for them to play Slane then!

    I reckon Coldplay for Slane 2012 is as nailed on confirmed as you're ever likely to get for a gig. In fact I'm be shocked if they don't do it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭davywalsh7


    just a thought but i reckon they could be headlining slane with snow patrol.

    they might not do an o2 date to try sell more tickets for slane plus the fact they played in ireland only a few months ago at oxegen.

    they have only announced 3dates in the uk for their arena tour so its not very likely that they will play the o2 in dublin.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭aka accounts 2010


    davywalsh7 wrote: »
    just a thought but i reckon they could be headlining slane with snow patrol.

    they might not do an o2 date to try sell more tickets for slane plus the fact they played in ireland only a few months ago at oxegen.

    they have only announced 3dates in the uk for their arena tour so its not very likely that they will play the o2 in dublin.

    I wouldn't think MCD / Henry Mountcharles are too concerned about ticket sales for Slane. Slane will always sell out, no matter who plays. It's an Irish institution at this stage and it has a core support of I'd say in excess of 50,000 people who go every year regardless of who plays.

    Coldplay would have no problem selling out 2 nights at the O2 and selling out Slane also. KoL sold out Slane in minutes last year and had to add an O2 date just to please the thousands who didn't get tickets!!! And in fairness, Coldplay are a superior act compared to KoL..I was at Slane and Oxegen this year and loved both bands, Slane was fantastic but just felt Coldplay really had a raw energy and capture that maybe KoL lacked.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    I wouldn't think MCD / Henry Mountcharles are too concerned about ticket sales for Slane. Slane will always sell out, no matter who plays.
    Well Madonna couldn't sell it out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,220 ✭✭✭bren2001


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    Well Madonna couldn't sell it out.

    They took a gamble on Madonna. Coldplay wont have a problem selling Slane out.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭aka accounts 2010


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    Well Madonna couldn't sell it out.

    The main reasons behind the Madonna non-sell out were, firstly, the gig was on a SUNDAY which meant people had to take the Monday off work and this generated plenty bad press at the time and also the fact that tickets were €90 plus booking fees didn't help. Lets also not forget the pretty poor support on that day in 2004.

    The 2004 concert attracted protests from the people of Slane, as it was to be held on a Sunday. The inhabitants were afraid of repeats of the civil unrest that had occurred the last time a concert was held on a Sunday, in 1984. This was due to concert-goers arriving the day before, Saturday, and consuming large amounts of alcohol before the Sunday concert. The matter was resolved by postponing the start of the concert and having a notably smaller lineup than other years.

    All the above taken into consideration, it is fair to say that the organisers messed up that year. Coldplay, RHCP, Muse, Foo Fighters or the Killers who all have new albums out or on the way would have no problems selling out!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    bren2001 wrote: »
    Coldplay wont have a problem selling Slane out.
    I never said they would.

    The main reasons behind the Madonna non-sell out were, firstly, the gig was on a SUNDAY which meant people had to take the Monday off work and this generated plenty bad press at the time and also the fact that tickets were €90 plus booking fees didn't help. Lets also not forget the pretty poor support on that day in 2004.
    I was only replying to your statement that "Slane will always sell out, no matter who plays"
    All the above taken into consideration, it is fair to say that the organisers messed up that year. Coldplay, RHCP, Muse, Foo Fighters or the Killers who all have new albums out or on the way would have no problems selling out!!
    I doubt RHCP will play. They've already played twice, once as support and once as a Headliner. U2 are the only band to play 3 times.

    Coldplay have already played as support so it's their turn to play as Headliner. Glastonbury this year, Slane next year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,220 ✭✭✭bren2001


    All the above taken into consideration, it is fair to say that the organisers messed up that year. Coldplay, RHCP, Muse, Foo Fighters or the Killers who all have new albums out or on the way would have no problems selling out!!

    I'm a huge Killers fan and would love to see them play it. It is plausible. They could sell it out....I wouldnt go as far as to say they would have no problem.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,539 ✭✭✭ghostdancer


    it'd take a brave promoter to put Coldplay in Croker, considering they couldn't sell out Phoenix Park with Elbow and White Lies as support...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭aka accounts 2010


    bren2001 wrote: »
    I'm a huge Killers fan and would love to see them play it. It is plausible. They could sell it out....I wouldnt go as far as to say they would have no problem.

    With a decent support line-up, I don't think they would have any problem selling out. The Killers have a huge Irish fan base. Maybe throw a couple of the following in and tickets would sell fast:
    The Strokes
    The National
    Thirty Seconds to Mars
    Jimmy Eat World
    Two Door Cinema Club
    The Blackout
    Kasabian
    The Kooks (new album coming and will be looing for a launch platform)


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    support and once as a Headliner. U2 are the only band to play 3 times.

    Coldplay have already played as support so it's their turn to play as Headliner. Glastonbury this year, Slane next year.

    There is no Glastonbury this year. As someone said id say its between Coldplay/Foo Fighters/The Killers for Slane
    With a decent support line-up, I don't think they would have any problem selling out. The Killers have a huge Irish fan base. Maybe throw a couple of the following in and tickets would sell fast:
    The Strokes
    The National
    Thirty Seconds to Mars
    Jimmy Eat World
    Two Door Cinema Club
    The Blackout
    Kasabian
    The Kooks (new album coming and will be looing for a launch platform)

    Also i could see Snow Patrol playing Slane with either of the bands that get announced .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,625 ✭✭✭✭BaZmO*


    There is no Glastonbury this year. As someone said id say its between Coldplay/Foo Fighters/The Killers for Slane
    Re-read my post


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    BaZmO* wrote: »
    Re-read my post

    Ah my bad;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    it'd take a brave promoter to put Coldplay in Croker, considering they couldn't sell out Phoenix Park with Elbow and White Lies as support...

    I suppose that's a good point too.

    Coldplay may have a chance of selling out Croker if Snow Patrol were the support act.

    Snow Patrol could probably sell out the Aviva and Coldplay could do the same so having them both at Croker might help ticket sales for a single gig.

    The same could be said for Take That. They didn't sell out Croke Park in 2009 but now they ended up playing two nights this year with Robbie Williams in the hood to play a host of solo tunes.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,220 ✭✭✭bren2001


    karaokeman wrote: »
    I suppose that's a good point too.

    Coldplay may have a chance of selling out Croker if Snow Patrol were the support act.

    Snow Patrol could probably sell out the Aviva and Coldplay could do the same so having them both at Croker might help ticket sales for a single gig.

    The same could be said for Take That. They didn't sell out Croke Park in 2009 but now they ended up playing two nights this year with Robbie Williams in the hood to play a host of solo tunes.

    I agree. I think with a decent underbill they could easily sell it out. They pulled a massive crowd at Oxegen, one I have only see Eminem top. The day tickets for that sold out (mainly due to the fact Beyonce was on as well). I know after seeing them I would pay the money to go to a stand alone show.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    Alternative rock icons Coldplay have revealed that they’re going to wait to see fan’s reactions to their new album ‘Mylo Xyloto’ before scheduling any kind of tour – suggesting there would be an excursion should fans take to the new LP.

    Vocalist Chris Martin also went on to say that he didn’t care if the band were considered ‘relevant’ or whether they ‘fit in’, and that the band were just happy to be together making music.

    Speaking in an interview with the Rolling Stone, Martin said: “You can't take anything for granted any more. It doesn't matter if you used to be big or used to be famous; you've got to prove yourself all over again.

    “We don't have any immediate touring plans. We've just got to wait and see if anyone is interested in listening to the album. I don't really care anymore about being relevant. I'm just happy to be with that group of people.

    “We're very fired up and we're very focused and the people who want to enjoy our music, we love them and we welcome them. In terms of where we fit in? I don't care.”

    With ‘Mylo Xyloto’ hitting shelves on October 24th, Coldplay will play three December dates including stops at London, Manchester and Glasgow. And, depending on the success of their fifth studio album, more dates could be on the way. If you need tickets to the trio of winter shows, check the dates and details below.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 896 ✭✭✭Dontfadeaway


    I read they won't be playing a show in Dublin for their winter tour this year. I guess we will have to wait for the stadium tour. I read the big tour goes on sale not long after the album is on sale.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭blue-army


    http://www.greenislehotel.com/events.html

    According to this, they're playing the Aviva on the 16th of June.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,065 ✭✭✭aka accounts 2010


    blue-army wrote: »
    http://www.greenislehotel.com/events.html

    According to this, they're playing the Aviva on the 16th of June.

    Aslo being discussed on this:


    http://www.coldplaying.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5060995


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    Crap thats one of my Slane predictions gone :p . Ah well im glad they are back missed them at Oxegen


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭the_doctor199


    You'd have thought they'd be playing Croke, I assume it's already booked or something (if the date is true.)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    blue-army wrote: »
    http://www.greenislehotel.com/events.html

    According to this, they're playing the Aviva on the 16th of June.

    Cool, any word on when tickets are going on sale?


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    You'd have thought they'd be playing Croke, I assume it's already booked or something (if the date is true.)

    Would they have sold out Croker? I think the Aviva is perfect size for them and will def sell out , hopefully we get good support like Elbow/White Lies last time


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    Would they have sold out Croker? I think the Aviva is perfect size for them and will def sell out , hopefully we get good support like Elbow/White Lies last time

    I'd say they could sell out Croker.

    I think Coldplay could sell the Aviva on their own but I'm still hoping for a good support bill, maybe Snow Patrol?

    People say they didn't sell out the Phoenix Park when Elbow and White Lies were supporting but thats different because generally the maximum attendance for a Phoenix Park concert is 120,000, that is a good bit more than 82,300.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭SantryRed


    karaokeman wrote: »
    I'd say they could sell out Croker.

    I think Coldplay could sell the Aviva on their own but I'm still hoping for a good support bill, maybe Snow Patrol?

    People say they didn't sell out the Phoenix Park when Elbow and White Lies were supporting but thats different because generally the maximum attendance for a Phoenix Park concert is 120,000, that is a good bit more than 82,300.

    There was 40,000 at the Phoenix Park gig.


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  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    SantryRed wrote: »
    There was 40,000 at the Phoenix Park gig.

    Ah right i wasnt sure what the attendance was at that gig(i missed out on it) but if it was 40,000 then thats perfect for the Aviva since thats the capacity?????

    Maybe we could get someone like Kaiser Chiefs? Their latest album was a massive flop and seem to have droppedd of the radar

    ITS MY 4000th POST :):)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 306 ✭✭ondarack


    hi lads, i know its been asked loads of times already but.....if coldplay do play aviva on the 16th of june, when is this likely to be confirmed and when would tickets go on sale?? saw them at oxegen this year and would love to see them again


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭karaokeman


    Maybe we could get someone like Kaiser Chiefs? Their latest album was a massive flop and seem to have droppedd of the radar

    Kaiser Chiefs would be good too. Would love to see them, never have but I know from others who saw them that they are great live performers and really know how to get a crowd going.

    My money's on Snow Patrol though. Hopefully tickets be going on sale in the next week or so I would imagine.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    ondarack wrote: »
    hi lads, i know its been asked loads of times already but.....if coldplay do play aviva on the 16th of june, when is this likely to be confirmed and when would tickets go on sale?? saw them at oxegen this year and would love to see them again

    Id say they might announce it this week or maybe a week or 2 because the RHCP gig is onsale on friday. And they will want the RHCP sales to go well . Also they might need to wait till Coldplay offically announce the tour/gig
    karaokeman wrote: »
    Kaiser Chiefs would be good too. Would love to see them, never have but I know from others who saw them that they are great live performers and really know how to get a crowd going.

    My money's on Snow Patrol though. Hopefully tickets be going on sale in the next week or so I would imagine.

    Yea ive seen Kaiser Chiefs 3 times (Twice at Oxegen and then Marlay Park) and they were great at getting the crowd going. Although looking at their most recent festival slots they seem to have kinda tamed a bit. Still think Snow Patrol will do their own summer gigs


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭blue-army


    Maybe we could get someone like Kaiser Chiefs? Their latest album was a massive flop and seem to have droppedd of the radar
    Razorlight would be class!


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    blue-army wrote: »
    Razorlight would be class!

    Hopefully not


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,294 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Ill be buying a ticket when they come to Ireland, but I really hope I won't have to endure an hour of snow patrol crying away on the stage. Or razorlight for that matter. Elbow and white lies were awesome in the phoenix park 2 years ago.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89,030 ✭✭✭✭JP Liz V1


    blue-army wrote: »
    http://www.greenislehotel.com/events.html

    According to this, they're playing the Aviva on the 16th of June.

    Wow I expected them for Croke Park


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 15,580 Mod ✭✭✭✭Furious-Red


    JP Liz V1 wrote: »
    Wow I expected them for Croke Park

    Dont think they would have sold out Croke Park. Maybe if they hadnt done Oxegen this year then id say they would have played Croke Park. Also it seems that there is only 2 or 3 Croke Park gigs a year and 2 spots are gone.
    Im glad they are doing the Aviva so i can finally go to a gig there:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭argentum


    Dont think they would have sold out Croke Park. Maybe if they hadnt done Oxegen this year then id say they would have played Croke Park. Also it seems that there is only 2 or 3 Croke Park gigs a year and 2 spots are gone.
    Im glad they are doing the Aviva so i can finally go to a gig there:D


    MCD guy told me they won't be playing here until 2013 at the earliest so don't hold your breath


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