Clamped in a private car park but.......

Dermo123

.... they never secured the clamp properly and I can clearly removed it without damaging it. Can I just remove it and drive away without any consequences or do I still have to pay up. It is in an apartment block where my Mum lives and it is operated by NCPS I think. Can they still legally come after me?

seanybiker

Just leave it there and be gone.

MugMugs

I can't advocate criminal acts so I can't tell you that you'd be better off taking it with you and seeing how well it rusts. If you were to remove it they could claim you damaged it or somebody else could damage it before they get it back. Perhaps take images of it as proof of your innocence.

cursai

Take off and drop it into the local Garda station as property found.

john t

If you can take it off i would take it off and if possible bring it too their office and say you found it, dont give your name and car reg...

Dermo123

Ya they could claim it was damaged when they retrieved it. €120 is release fee and €500 is damaged clamp fee. Cant really afford either at the moment...

Keith186

If you can lock it without a key you should clamp one of their cars for the laugh


EDIT: Or better yet bring it with you and put if on your car where ever you park where you shouldn't, might save you getting clamped again!

mickdw

Please dont pay them. Just take the clamp away. They wont follow it up, they cant as the legal argument is weak and they dont want it tested in court.

john t

mickdw wrote: »

Please dont pay them. Just take the clamp away. They wont follow it up, they cant as the legal argument is weak and they dont want it tested in court.

Yep give it back too them...Will take months too wrk out what car got away and possibly lots of people do it..their is ways...

challengemaster

john t wrote: »

Yep give it back too them...Will take months too wrk out what car got away and possibly lots of people do it..their is ways...

Why would you give them back something they so kindly left beside your car as a present? :pac:

bfocusd

i got clamped in a company carpark once during an interview, (worst day ever!) by ncps

but im pretty sure they recorded the area and the reg of the car, they have a digital thing that they out all the info and i think its relevant to a gps location.. i would just be careful.. wing it if you want, but just hope it doesnt bite u in the a$$..

also they can be ruthless and youd could be brough to court for theft maybe haha

john t

challengemaster wrote: »

Why would you give them back something they so kindly left beside your car as a present? :pac:

Apresent is a gift, sumthing left beside or on your car is not, legally it not yours so if you return it not giving your name or reg you keep it out of hands of sum idiot who myt find it amusing too have illegal fun with it...

challengemaster

john t wrote: »

Apresent is a gift, sumthing left beside or on your car is not, legally it not yours so if you return it not giving your name or reg you keep it out of hands of sum idiot who myt find it amusing too have illegal fun with it...

If someone attached something to my car, I could only assume that it's intended for me to have. Same way if you get a parking ticket it's left under the wipers - You'd hardly assume it was left on your car for someone else.

c-note

i got clamped once in my own space in apartment block.
Rang the clampers who said it was ordered by the management company.
Rang the management company who said they gave no order.
Rang back the clampers who eventually backed down and said they'd
take it off in an hour or so.
I said i would wait 5 mins then get a bus and phone my solicitor.
They were there in 4 minutes.

My bro did park illegally in NZ and was clamped, he managed to remove the clamp and wheel. He rang the clampers 6 months later and explained he was about to scrap the wheel/clamp but if they wanted they could call around and retrieve their clamp and he'd get his wheel back. they agreed.

kildare.17hmr

iv taken a few off now and givin them back to the clamper, he always just laughs now and says fair play and asks did i damage them at all. Nothing they can do and unless you go at it with an angle grinder your not going to damage it at all so dont worry about that. Bet it wont come off quite as easy as you think tho!!

john t

challengemaster wrote: »

If someone attached something to my car, I could only assume that it's intended for me to have. Same way if you get a parking ticket it's left under the wipers - You'd hardly assume it was left on your car for someone else.

Is it a present or a legal way too restrain a vehicle....??Parking ticket is a legal notice of a vehicle in prohibited/ over hour space etcetc...

challengemaster

john t wrote: »

Is it a present or a legal way too restrain a vehicle....??Parking ticket is a legal notice of a vehicle in prohibited/ over hour space etcetc...

Clamping is not a legal way to restrain a vehicle, which is why no clamping company will ever take anyone to court over removing a clamp. Considering this, it's only fair to assume that the company isn't partaking in illegal acts and to accept their present.

john t

challengemaster wrote: »

Clamping is not a legal way to restrain a vehicle, which is why no clamping company will ever take anyone to court over removing a clamp. Considering this, it's only fair to assume that the company isn't partaking in illegal acts and to accept their present.

Did you read all my posts??

Alan b.

if you dont hand it back and there are cameras, they will contact the guards. i know of this being done and have been there for the guards ringing up people.

they will try have you done for theft.

hand it back to the guards and say you wish to remain anonymous and say it is exactly as you found it.

Dermo123

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

iv taken a few off now and givin them back to the clamper, he always just laughs now and says fair play and asks did i damage them at all. Nothing they can do and unless you go at it with an angle grinder your not going to damage it at all so dont worry about that. Bet it wont come off quite as easy as you think tho!![/QUOTE]

Went out this morning to take it off and you are right it is on more permanently than I first thought. I can clearly take off the wheel but the chain of the clamp goes the wishbone so I would have to take off the lower ball joint to get it off.
Probably not worth the hassle this morning!!!!

emanresu

mickdw wrote: »

Please dont pay them. Just take the clamp away. They wont follow it up, they cant as the legal argument is weak and they dont want it tested in court.

challengemaster wrote: »

Clamping is not a legal way to restrain a vehicle, which is why no clamping company will ever take anyone to court over removing a clamp. Considering this, it's only fair to assume that the company isn't partaking in illegal acts and to accept their present.

That's what I always thought until I read this article in last week's Clare People (Tue 13/9/2011)

antodeco

Car is in a public place. Anybody could come along and remove it. If you do remove it, leave a note in an envelope and stick it to where you were clamped. The note should state how they can get their clamp back. Take photos as evidence you left the note their. This is now no longer theft. You have made a reasonable effort to ensure the original owner has a chance to claim the clamp back.

listermint

emanresu wrote: »

That's what I always thought until I read this article in last week's Clare People (Tue 13/9/2011)

That article as Zero to do with clamping, more to do with damaging someones lock. If however the defendant in that case had 'disappeared' said lock and clamp i doubt there would have been any case due to no evidence of criminal damage.

challengemaster

emanresu wrote: »

That's what I always thought until I read this article in last week's Clare People (Tue 13/9/2011)

Being charged with criminal damage due to damaging the clamp and leaving it behind - that's the only way it can come back on you tbh. If they don't have any clamp, they can't prove it was damaged.

MagicSean

challengemaster wrote: »

Being charged with criminal damage due to damaging the clamp and leaving it behind - that's the only way it can come back on you tbh. If they don't have any clamp, they can't prove it was damaged.

That's theft then. Unless this case is appealed it sets a precedent in favour of the clampers.

Agent_47

As you all seem to be in the know, can they clamp motorbikes? Would they clamp motorbikes?

listermint

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

That's theft then. Unless this case is appealed it sets a precedent in favour of the clampers.

Theft by whom ?

MagicSean

listermint wrote: »

Theft by whom ?

Whoever took the clamp. It's no good saying they have to prove it. You're still advocating committing a criminal act.

john t

Agent_47 wrote: »

As you all seem to be in the know, can they clamp motorbikes? Would they clamp motorbikes?

No motorcycles do not get clanped,

Darsad

Is it not the case under data protection that clamping companies are inot entitled to your personal details where they are providing clamping for a management company ie private as against providing it for dublin corporation on the streets . As such they cannot pursue you through the courts if clamp removed without damage and can only take action via gardai if they catch u in the act of damaging said clamp

kildare.17hmr

Dermo123 wrote: »

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

iv taken a few off now and givin them back to the clamper, he always just laughs now and says fair play and asks did i damage them at all. Nothing they can do and unless you go at it with an angle grinder your not going to damage it at all so dont worry about that. Bet it wont come off quite as easy as you think tho!![/QUOTE]

Went out this morning to take it off and you are right it is on more permanently than I first thought. I can clearly take off the wheel but the chain of the clamp goes the wishbone so I would have to take off the lower ball joint to get it off.
Probably not worth the hassle this morning!!!!

Its only a few mins work and judging by the way you discribed it you have a fair idea what yu need to do so g for it man! Just make sure you have a bar to help you pop out the ball joint, it will go back in easy enough. Seriously dont pay it!! The face on the clamper is worth all the effort;)

Del2005

Agent_47 wrote: »

As you all seem to be in the know, can they clamp motorbikes? Would they clamp motorbikes?

Dublin CC clampers can clamp motorcycles, but usually only if you park in a pay and display bay!

I doubt the private companies would have motorcycle clamps. Not enough bikes in the country for them to make money on.

Alan b.

i know of a case where a person in ireland paid for the clamp to be removed by credit card, then when it was removed, called his credit card company and put a stop on the payment, on the basis that he was being forced under duress to make the payment or he would be denied his property (the car)

and it worked. payment was stopped.

MagicSean

Alan b. wrote: »

i know of a case where a person in ireland paid for the clamp to be removed by credit card, then when it was removed, called his credit card company and put a stop on the payment, on the basis that he was being forced under duress to make the payment or he would be denied his property (the car)

and it worked. payment was stopped.

My own opinion on the matter is that once the owner of the vehicle has provided his details to the clamper and disputed the charge then it becomes a matter of civil debt for the courts and there is no longer any lawful authority for the clamp to be attached. At this point the clamper is committing an offence under Section 113 of the Road Traffic Act.

L1011

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

My own opinion on the matter is that once the owner of the vehicle has provided his details to the clamper and disputed the charge then it becomes a matter of civil debt for the courts and there is no longer any lawful authority for the clamp to be attached. At this point the clamper is committing an offence under Section 113 of the Road Traffic Act.

My reading of S113 and its amendment* is that there is never any authority for the clamp to be present. NCPS and Apcoa have removed clamps for colleagues when challenged with this.

*http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0016/print.html which makes it quite clear that it applies on private land too.

MagicSean

MYOB wrote: »

My reading of S113 and its amendment* is that there is never any authority for the clamp to be present. NCPS and Apcoa have removed clamps for colleagues when challenged with this.

*http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1984/en/act/pub/0016/print.html which makes it quite clear that it applies on private land too.

Section 113 allows for clamping when the clamper has lawful authority or reasonable cause. This is the part which is currently a grey area. There is no caselaw or legislation to help decide whether clampers have lawful authority or reasonable cause under this section.

L1011

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Section 113 allows for clamping when the clamper has lawful authority or reasonable cause. This is the part which is currently a grey area. There is no caselaw or legislation to help decide whether clampers have lawful authority or reasonable cause under this section.

Authority has to be granted and has only been granted to local authorities to date, that's that one sorted.

"reasonable cause" is something no clamping company is willing to try and defend in court. If your vehicle is blocking access they can have reasonable cause to move it but there is never reasonable cause to immobilise it.

MagicSean

MYOB wrote: »

Authority has to be granted and has only been granted to local authorities to date, that's that one sorted.

"reasonable cause" is something no clamping company is willing to try and defend in court. If your vehicle is blocking access they can have reasonable cause to move it but there is never reasonable cause to immobilise it.

It's a matter of opinion. Section 113(5) makes it a defence if they believe they have reasonable cause or lawful authority. And until there is something to convince them otherwise, be it a court case or legislation, then they can continue to rely on this defence.

Dermo123

So I was out of town on a Sunday morning and I had no tools with me and needed to drive 60 miles to work for a days overtime which is all too rare these days for me. I rang the clampers and paid the €120. The guy came and told me that I could appeal the clamping on www.webappeals.ie. This web site had 8 photos of my car from various angles with the clamp on and window notice and my windscreen discs etc. This means they had proof of my car being clamped. Now the reason given for the clamping was not having a permit displayed on my windscreen, I was not blocking access or the like. So I wrote my appeal email on this website to see if they allow for the fact that I was a genuine guest of a resident who does have a permit. I am not hopeful now that they have the money.

VolvoMan

Dermo123 wrote: »

I rang the clampers and paid the €120.

Why??!!!

Gran Hermano

Dermo123 wrote: »

So I was out of town on a Sunday morning and I had no tools with me and needed to drive 60 miles to work for a days overtime which is all too rare these days for me. I rang the clampers and paid the €120. The guy came and told me that I could appeal the clamping on www.webappeals.ie. This web site had 8 photos of my car from various angles with the clamp on and window notice and my windscreen discs etc. This means they had proof of my car being clamped. Now the reason given for the clamping was not having a permit displayed on my windscreen, I was not blocking access or the like. So I wrote my appeal email on this website to see if they allow for the fact that I was a genuine guest of a resident who does have a permit. I am not hopeful now that they have the money.

They might have eight photos of the clamp and notices on your car but could they prove that the clamp and notice were still on the car when you returned to it? Unless the were constantly watching the car or had a witness how would they know whether it was you or a random punter that removed them?

kkhornet

john t wrote: »

No motorcycles do not get clanped,

Yes, yes they do, I refer you to THIS

nicknackgtb

I am after getting clamped for the 3rd time for not displaying my permit. first time was only introduced, got that off without paying, second time it blew off the dash when i closed the door (15 days ago)(paid this also €120), and this time, i unfort put my new insurance disk in front of it, but was still protruding out a small bit.

I have paid 15k for my spot, in a private car park. the clamping was introduced by the management company without any interaction with residents. Now my car is in my spot, that i have paid for, so do I have a right to appeal as theoretically they are putting a clamp on my car on my paid spot. Is this spot my property?

Or really, do they actually have a right to clamp me on the spot, irregardless of a permit or not?? please help cause i'm going mad!!

L-M

O.o

15k for a parking spot?

bronzer

This happened to me before and I thought there was no harm in taking it off and just ignoring it......wasn't a great idea...they came after me looking for the clamp and the couple of hundred yo yo's........ended up paying the fine but still have the clamp.....as previously said,it's a handy thing to have....stick it on the wheel and havent been fined since!!!!!

nicknackgtb

15k for the spot as i bought an apartment and needed a spot with it. you'll find parking spots costing a lot when buying new apt's!

L1011

MagicSean wrote: »

It's a matter of opinion. Section 113(5) makes it a defence if they believe they have reasonable cause or lawful authority. And until there is something to convince them otherwise, be it a court case or legislation, then they can continue to rely on this defence.

From experience of people I've "assisted" in dealing with being clamped, none of the firms is willing to be the one who loses the test case. Clamps get removed without money changing hands, and often no attempt to follow up for a fine is even made.

pfactor

I was clamped in the private underground car park where I live by NCPS. I parked in a spot two spaces down from my own spot because someone had parked in my space. I rang the clamping company and the management company but neither of them would listen to reason. I decided no matter what I wasn't going to pay. I left the car clamped and found other ways of getting to work. The car was unclamped by the clamping company after 12 days and I haven't heard a thing since. I advise anyone who is clamped in a private carpark to do the same as long as you have the time and the patience. It saved me 120e!!

the_syco

Dermo123 wrote: »

.... they never secured the clamp properly

Secure the clamp properly onto their van :P

DO NOT DAMAGE THE LOCK WITH SUPER GLUE AS THEN THEY CANNOT GET IT OFF THEIR WHEEL... :pac:

TheUsual

pfactor wrote: »

I was clamped in the private underground car park where I live by NCPS. I parked in a spot two spaces down from my own spot because someone had parked in my space. I rang the clamping company and the management company but neither of them would listen to reason. I decided no matter what I wasn't going to pay. I left the car clamped and found other ways of getting to work. The car was unclamped by the clamping company after 12 days and I haven't heard a thing since. I advise anyone who is clamped in a private carpark to do the same as long as you have the time and the patience. It saved me 120e!!

Well done.
Genius.

Anan1

TheUsual wrote: »

Well done.
Genius.