Can't squat or DL - any program I can do?

Duck's hoop

As per title really. I can't squat or deadlift. I am painfully aware I'm missing out on 2 outta 3 of the fundamentals. I can bench. I can pull up. I can press, seated.

I know if you're not doing the program YNDTP but any recommendations for a power enhancing upper body template?

I'm old. 6' stretched out. 77 kg. Only v recently figured out a way to flat bench. Various ergonomicalisticy thingums get in the way. Phenomenally tight hip flexors, fixed spine etc.

Max bench is 75 for 3 w no spot. So presuming 80 ish 1 RM.

Can knock out 8 PLs, thrice.

I am supposed to be an endurance athlete. But power to weight is a big element of my sport of the moment.

Any thoughts appreciated.

cmyk

Duck's hoop wrote: »

As per title really. I can't squat or deadlift. I am painfully aware I'm missing out on 2 outta 3 of the fundamentals. I can bench. I can pull up. I can press, seated.

Can you give us some more information on what you mean by 'can't'?

Duck's hoop wrote: »

I'm old. 6' stretched out. 77 kg. Only v recently figured out a way to flat bench. Various ergonomicalisticy thingums get in the way. Phenomenally tight hip flexors, fixed spine etc.

Sounds like you need to resolve some of those issues before embarking on any programme, or at least have a decent trainer look at you moving.

Duck's hoop wrote: »

Can knock out 8 PLs, thrice.

I may just be a bit slow today but PLs?

Duck's hoop wrote: »

I am supposed to be an endurance athlete. But power to weight is a big element of my sport of the moment.

Can you tell us what sport you're involved in?

TimeToShine

I think PL's is pullups.

you can sort of replace deadlifts with glute ham raises or rack pulls and squats with leg press or lunges.

if its a knee problem or something then just don't train your legs. see a physio and let it recover before trying to squat/deadlift again.

CrazySka

You should concentrate on sorting out your mobility issues if you possibly can as otherwise you are just papering over the cracks.

Tight areas and low mobility areas can be sorted but will take time and patience, I am currently in the same process for similar reasons, itll take me 6 months to a year but I feel its vital not to try and ignore your problem areas as they will otherwise simply always be problem areas.

For me its lots of foam rolling\using a ball and stretching along with replacing the movements I have difficulty with similar but lower intensity movements, I'd recommend seeing a trainer who can look at your range of movements and give you information n the areas you need to really concentrate on.

The above assumes there is not some physical disability or previous major injury that is the reason behind the "cant" rather than just tightness or low mobility.

Hanley

CrazySka wrote: »

You should concentrate on sorting out your mobility issues if you possibly can as otherwise you are just papering over the cracks.

Tight areas and low mobility areas can be sorted but will take time and patience, I am currently in the same process for similar reasons, itll take me 6 months to a year but I feel its vital not to try and ignore your problem areas as they will otherwise simply always be problem areas.

For me its lots of foam rolling\using a ball and stretching along with replacing the movements I have difficulty with similar but lower intensity movements, I'd recommend seeing a trainer who can look at your range of movements and give you information n the areas you need to really concentrate on.

The above assumes there is not some physical disability or previous major injury that is the reason behind the "cant" rather than just tightness or low mobility.

Good post. Post more often please.

Duck's hoop

Thanks for the input. PLs should of course read PUs.

I cannot train lower body to any meaningful extent as I'm paraplegic (hate that word).

I'm pretty fit otherwise and in reasonable shape. I'm looking to build strength/power in next few months to Crimbo for handcycling. It's a sport demanding a lot from chest, shoulders, arms and to a lesser extent back.

Distances are not enormous, 60k race or 15-20k TTs. Power is important on hills and in sprints etc. I've noticed improvements since starting resistance training in earnest a while back.

I do a pull/push thing 3 days a week.

Would it be an idea to train chest Mon and Fri and back Wed? For 6 weeks say?

Thanks again.

Barry.Oglesby

First of all, Hail Freedonia,

Secondly, do you have a physio you can consult with regarding the tightness in your hips? I would imagine that regardless of your mobility issue, you would need the same stretching that anyone would, but that perhaps a specialist physio would be the way to go for that.

Can you give me a sample of a race ie. distance, times expected etc.? I know you're saying there's a lot of power required but from what I know of your sport I thought it was more endurance based.

Don't sweat not having a squat/deadlift meaning that you're missing out. I can't squat or deadlift either due to a very minor issue but I manage just fine without them. People elevate these exercises as though someone carved them on stone tablets, they're just methods of movement. If upper body exercises are all you can do then you will do perfectly fine with just upper body. Off the top of my head, I would think that a lot of shoulder mobility and stability work would be a good place to start. After that you have a reasonable base of strength if you can knock out 8 pull ups, thrice. There's essentially 4 planes of motion at your disposal, there's a lot you can do. Are you working in a specially equipped gym like the IWA or in your own space?

Duck's hoop

Hi Barry,

Thanks for your considered reply. I know you're correct on the stretching, it's something I've neglected for too long really.

I suppose the HB thing is a good mix of power and endurance, a well trained individual would be running at and above 90% of max HR for the duration of a TT which could be 25 - 35 mins depending on individual and course profile.

Power is required to push those cranks around, especially in the bigger gears. I mean some fast riders don't look like beasts but they're obviously incredibly strong, climbing hills at a fast pace in a big gear.

The top guys are ridiculously fast, maybe averaging over 40 kph, really astonishing stuff, but a sub 30 minute 15 k would be far from shabby and is what I should be training towards over next couple of years.

I have access to a fully equipped gym. It's not the IWA, I can use standard equipment, even a rower, it's an 'incomplete' injury.

This shoulder stabilisation you speak of sounds intriguing, I shall look into this.

Thanks again.

Barry.Oglesby

Duck's hoop wrote: »

I suppose the HB thing is a good mix of power and endurance, a well trained individual would be running at and above 90% of max HR for the duration of a TT which could be 25 - 35 mins depending on individual and course profile.

Hmmm, that seems pretty high. I'm not doubting you of course, I'd say it's more likely 90% is reached during peak exertions ie. hill climbing or sprints but I'm sure there'd be corresponding down time. That being said I know nothing about the sport save using a hand bike for a period after a hip injury and knowing that it was one of the most exhausting pieces of gear I'd ever used.

Power is required to push those cranks around, especially in the bigger gears. I mean some fast riders don't look like beasts but they're obviously incredibly strong, climbing hills at a fast pace in a big gear.

Yep I'd say it's very tough over long periods. To simplify what you're looking for though, it's easy enough to break it down into it's constituents. When we're talking about power generally we're talking about how much force you can apply quickly. (F=ma) Without getting into the physics (mostly because there's always a mathematical pedant waiting in the wings), the more force you can apply (ie. the stronger you are), the greater your output will be. Therefore power comes not necessarily from just doing things quickly, but from how much force you can exert, and of course, the ability to do it quickly. In other words, if you're stronger generally, you'll be more powerful. Ally that with mobility work and you have the freedom to exert that force more effectively, and ally it also with muscular endurance work and you have the ability to express that over greater periods of time. In other words, train with strength in mind rather than "power".

Duck's hoop

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Hmmm, that seems pretty high. I'm not doubting you of course, I'd say it's more likely 90% is reached during peak exertions ie. hill climbing or sprints but I'm sure there'd be corresponding down time.

I was pretty dubious myself tbh, but I have it on very good authority. I don't see myself getting to that point, having trained hard on two wheeled bikes for years.

Your reply provides interesting food for thought Barry, I think 'strength' is the right term. Aren't benching and pullups pretty good all round strength builders? Should I base a program around them?

Again, thanks for your time.

Barry.Oglesby

Duck's hoop wrote: »

I was pretty dubious myself tbh, but I have it on very good authority. I don't see myself getting to that point, having trained hard on two wheeled bikes for years.

Your reply provides interesting food for thought Barry, I think 'strength' is the right term. Aren't benching and pullups pretty good all round strength builders? Should I base a program around them?

Again, thanks for your time.

I would stay away from benching and pullups as terms and think in terms of pushing and pulling, especially if we're talking about high stress on the shoulders since horizontal pulling will be a major component of anything you will do. That's why I was asking if you were using an adapted gym rather than a regular gym, since there may be some specialist equipment set up for your specific needs. If you're not using an adapted gym then that's nothing a little imagination or some minor assistance can't solve.

But in answer to your question, yes benching and pullups would be a good place to start to build a programme.

Duck's hoop

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I would stay away from benching and pullups as terms and think in terms of pushing and pulling, especially if we're talking about high stress on the shoulders since horizontal pulling will be a major component of anything you will do.

Duly noted.

I use a regular gym as I can use standard equipment, my injury is getting towards the less severe end of the scale, relatively speaking.

Appreciated.