Please, please only buy from reputable breeders

ISDW

This morning I took a beautiful 2 year old malamute bitch to the vet as I was very, very concerned about her back legs. I have her IKC papers, so know that was born in July 2009. She was handed over to me by a family who had her chained up in their back garden, and the man hit her repeatedly with a lead in front of me, trying to get her into my van.

I sat on the floor at the vet's surgery cradling her head (she was too big to go up on the table) while her front leg was shaved, and she was sedated. I fed her garlic sausage, her favourite treat while the vet then injected her and I felt her life slip away.

Miya had such severe hip displacia that the vet and I felt this was the kindest thing to do for her, she was in constant pain in both hips.

Please, please, please, if you are considering buying a puppy, only go to a reputable breeder who has done all the relevant health tests for that breed, and make sure that you see the results. I wrote to her breeder, but she never replied to me, so how many other mals are out there suffering in the same way?

If anyone has a malamute that was born in July 2009 and wants to know if they are litter mates, or indeed wants to check with me the dam or sires names, please pm me. I will be contacting the IKC, but really don't expect them to do anything.

Run free at the bridge Miya, you deserved so much more.

**Vai**

What a shame. Well done for doing your best ISDW. Miya thanks you for it as well as the rest of us.

ppink

thats very sad for such a beautiful girl:(
probably just as well she came into your care or she could still be in agony:(

well done for helping her, what an awful morning for you.

Tranceypoo

There are no words.

At least (and it really is least) she was loved and treated with dignity and kindness in her final moments.

Did you have her long ISDW? From your post it reads that you had only just gotten her from the lowlifes that had her.

ISDW

Tranceypoo wrote: »

There are no words.

At least (and it really is least) she was loved and treated with dignity and kindness in her final moments.

Did you have her long ISDW? From your post it reads that you had only just gotten her from the lowlifes that had her.

She was here for 6 weeks.

She was so scared when she first came, that I wanted to gain her trust before I got her in the crate in the van, so was working on that, feeding her in a crate etc, and also with getting a muzzle on her, just in case. She was also in season when she came, so wanted her to get over that, so the vet could give her a proper examination.

I think deep down I knew it was so bad that putting her to sleep would be her best option, so I've been putting off taking her to the vets. She was such a sweet girl.

Irish-Lass

As the owner of a dog who in the words of my vets - has the worse hips she had seen in her career - I know the road is a long one where hip displacia is concerned our girl also had a bone deformaity - she is a pedigree and had other litter mates and I often wonder what happened to them and if they are still alive. Thankfully we caught her's early 7 months but the following year was a struggle between cartifen injections, accupuncture, metacam, hydrotherapy etc etc but she is now 3 1/2 years old and flying so its not all doom and gloom where hip displacia is concerned.

It can't have been an easy decision for you Karen to make but you gave her the best and she went with someone who loved her beside her - what more could she have asked for.

toadfly

Jeez Karen this is heartbreaking, am in bits after reading your post. Well done, she knew love for her last 6 weeks.

Asshole breeders have an awful lot to answer for.

Run free gorgeous girl.

Whispered

I just wanted to say how sorry I am to hear that.

lrushe

ISDW I wish I could thank your post twice!
When people come on here talking about breeding their pets or unhealth tested dogs posters like myself are made to feel like we are lecturing or sitting on our soap box etc. but this poor girl is the end result of people not doing the right thing 1) not health testing 2) selling their pups to people who shouldn't be left in charge of goldfish let alone a dog.
Well done for doing right by her, it's just a pity she had to suffer so much in her short life

Hellrazer

Jesus that is so sad Isdw.Was there no way of saving her through surgery??I thought displasia could be treated through surgery although expensive??

Christ its sad that a 2 year old dog has to go through that.


I know youre saying go to reputable breeders and all that but you say you have the IKC papers...does that not mean that they were a registered breeder and as such supposedly reputable in the eyes of the person that bought the dog in the first place..

Or is it the case that IKC registration is not worth the paper its wrote on??

lrushe

Hellrazer wrote: »

Jesus that is so sad Isdw.Was there no way of saving her through surgery??I thought displasia could be treated through surgery although expensive??

Christ its sad that a 2 year old dog has to go through that.


I know youre saying go to reputable breeders and all that but you say you have the IKC papers...does that not mean that they were a registered breeder and as such supposedly reputable in the eyes of the person that bought the dog in the first place..

Or is it the case that IKC registration is not worth the paper its wrote on??

I don't personally know the ins or out of the case but I would suspect that the dog was subject to poor treatment as well as poor nutrition which along with poor breeding would have given her a poor prognosis.

People should see IKC papers the same way they would the log book of a car. The log book of a car tells you the make, model and age a car but it doesn't tell you if the current owner has looked after it well or whether it has been crashed etc. IKC papers are similar, they tell you the breed of dog you have, that both parents where the same breed, who bred the dog and when. What it doesn't tell you is if the parents where health tested, good examples of the breed etc. So while they have some value they should not on their own be taken as a quality mark for a dog.

Andromeda_111

Hellrazer wrote: »

Or is it the case that IKC registration is not worth the paper its wrote on??

That's true IMO

Whispered

I wonder if it would be possible to copy the first post into the puppy thread at the top. While puppy farms are of course an issue, I think this of badly bred dogs is also one that could be highlighted in the sticky?

ISDW

Hellrazer, IKC papers mean nothing, as far as I know, there is no such thing as a registered breeder here (but I'm open to correction on that). I will inform the IKC about this girl, but they won't do anything. I contacted them about a dog that came out of a pound, was seized by the warden, I wanted to get the microchip changed. They told me to email them, I did, three times and never heard a thing back. In my opinion, as long as they get their money for the registration of pups, they don't care. I wrote to her breeder over a month ago and have had no reply - what does that tell you? All I said in the letter was that I had taken the dog in, and would like to talk about her, made no accusations, nothing, as I didn't know her story.

This girl was sold as a pup, then sold again when she was about 18 months old, maybe because of her bad hips.

I trust my vet completely, and we discussed whether she could be treated. The reality of it is that finding a new family willing to spend the kind of money needed on replacing both hips, and any other issues would have been virtually impossible. My vet did say that even with a totally committed, rich owner, (her words) the prognosis wouldn't have been good, she would have been in pain every day. This way, she just fell asleep, she loved her garlic sausage, so her last moments were being spoken to, stroked and eating her favourite treat - not a bad way to go:)

Her condition was probably because of bad breeding, no health testing, and possibly bad treatment. I understand that it is really hard when buying a pup to find a reputable breeder, sometimes even the ones that have champion dogs aren't that reputable. But research the breeder and the health tests they have done before buying a pup and you and your dog will at least stand a fighting chance.

Hellrazer

Whispered wrote: »

I wonder if it would be possible to copy the first post into the puppy thread at the top. While puppy farms are of course an issue, I think this of badly bred dogs is also one that could be highlighted in the sticky?

Done.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74436936&postcount=2

Whispered

Prob shoulda checked first.

Sorry

Hellrazer

ISDW wrote: »

Hellrazer, IKC papers mean nothing, as far as I know, there is no such thing as a registered breeder here (but I'm open to correction on that).

I wasnt sure myself if there was such a thing but I thought having IKC registration meant something--It obviously doesnt and Im absolutely sickened by this story.

Hellrazer

Whispered wrote: »

Prob shoulda checked first.

Sorry

Only did it after your post so no need for the red faced smiley.

Whispered

Hellrazer wrote: »

I wasnt sure myself if there was such a thing but I thought having IKC registration meant something--It obviously doesnt and Im absolutely sickened by this story.

I did a project recently on a breeder, one which I would consider an ethical one. He claims the IKC papers are worth nothing when it comes to the health of the dog and actually thinks it can make it easier for a byb to sell their pups as most people do think they are some sort of guarantee of a well bred dog.

Hellrazer

Whispered wrote: »

I did a project recently on a breeder, one which I would consider an ethical one. He claims the IKC papers are worth nothing when it comes to the health of the dog and actually thinks it can make it easier for a byb to sell their pups as most people do think they are some sort of guarantee of a well bred dog.

I cant see why the reputable breeders could not get together and form some sort of asociation or something??
Reputable breeders of Ireland or something where you can only become a member if you carry out x,y,z on your breeding dogs and pups.It would make sense from a purely ethical point of view and give potential new owners a piece of mind when it comes to health issues.Surely something like that would be in the breeders best interests (not to mention the dogs) aswell??

ppink

Whispered wrote: »

I did a project recently on a breeder, one which I would consider an ethical one. He claims the IKC papers are worth nothing when it comes to the health of the dog and actually thinks it can make it easier for a byb to sell their pups as most people do think they are some sort of guarantee of a well bred dog.

totally agree with this. for me reputable means someone who has health tested and has an obvious deep love for and knowledge about the breed, not just or even IKC registered.

ISDW- when discussing HD op with our vet he said that the op is successful but there is a considerable amount of pain and cage rest involved.....X2 for both hips, which can be very stressful for dogs especially high energy ones.

star-pants

Very saddened to hear Miyas' sad story
I am glad, however, that she got some real love and attention before she had to go, that she got to know what it was like to be loved. So so sad, she was very beautiful.

Whispered

Hellrazer wrote: »

I cant see why the reputable breeders could not get together and form some sort of asociation or something??

As far as I know there are certain clubs, I know that in our conversation I learned there is an association for the GSD's and that to register with the club or association you have to have certain health tests done on the parents of the pups. I don't know enough about them to ever recommend them, but it sounds like a good idea. You don't HAVE to register with them. There could be an undercurrent of competition though, and other breeders thinking "well why would I join x's club" if you know what I mean. Maybe a seperate body altogether would work.

I don't know if there are others, but like you said it would be a great idea to set up an association.

belongtojazz

I've had an awful week at work and am having some behavioural problems with one of my dogs so was feeling pretty sorry for myself until I read this post.
Thank God ( or whoever) that my guys are ok, I have one with pretty bad hip dysplacia but thankfully she has responded well to medication so she is not in pain as far as we can tell.
Fair play to ISDW that must have been a really tough decision but you did so well in making the right one for your girl, really puts my minor troubles in perspective.

Oranage2

Typical scare mongering from the OP -

No doubt the dog dying was a sad story but I'd imagine most dogs in ireland arent from 'reputable' breeders and last I heard there wasnt an epidemic of dogs having to be put down over bad hips -


Also wasnt there a thread recently on boards about a reputable breeder and crufts winner having a puppy farm?

Nobody on boards had 'dont but of a reputable breeder as they be a puppy farmer' thread -


Although its probably best buying dogs known for poor health due to breeding to buy of a reputable breeder but if you if you want to buy a dog not known for health issues like pitbull terriers and spaniels then I wouldnt bother forking out the few hundred extra on a dog that'll be no different.

The propaghada and comes out of some of the 'reputable' posters here does be astonishing.

borderlinemeath

Oranage2 wrote: »

Typical scare mongering from the OP -

No doubt the dog dying was a sad story but I'd imagine most dogs in ireland arent from 'reputable' breeders and last I heard there wasnt an epidemic of dogs having to be put down over bad hips -


Also wasnt there a thread recently on boards about a reputable breeder and crufts winner having a puppy farm?

Nobody on boards had 'dont but of a reputable breeder as they be a puppy farmer' thread -


Although its probably best buying dogs known for poor health due to breeding to buy of a reputable breeder but if you if you want to buy a dog not known for health issues like pitbull terriers and spaniels then I wouldnt bother forking out the few hundred extra on a dog that'll be no different.

The propaghada and comes out of some of the 'reputable' posters here does be astonishing.

The shiit stirring from yourself at times does also be astonishing.:rolleyes:

Hellrazer

Oranage2 wrote: »

Typical scare mongering from the OP -

No doubt the dog dying was a sad story but I'd imagine most dogs in ireland arent from 'reputable' breeders and last I heard there wasnt an epidemic of dogs having to be put down over bad hips -


Also wasnt there a thread recently on boards about a reputable breeder and crufts winner having a puppy farm?

Nobody on boards had 'dont but of a reputable breeder as they be a puppy farmer' thread -


Although its probably best buying dogs known for poor health due to breeding to buy of a reputable breeder but if you if you want to buy a dog not known for health issues like pitbull terriers and spaniels then I wouldnt bother forking out the few hundred extra on a dog that'll be no different.

The propaghada and comes out of some of the 'reputable' posters here does be astonishing.

Ive had enough of this oranage2--Youve cropped up too many times in the last few weeks so you can now take a small break from the forum.You have been warned in the past by other mods and are currently banned from 3 other forums on boards for trolling.So you can add another forum to that list.
2 Week ban issued.

Hellrazer

borderlinemeath wrote: »

The shiit stirring from yourself at times does also be astonishing.:rolleyes:

Please dont back seat moderate.Report the post instead.

borderlinemeath

Hellrazer wrote: »

Please dont back seat moderate.Report the post instead.

Apologies. Late night tipsy response from myself.

ISDW

Oranage2 wrote: »

Typical scare mongering from the OP -

No doubt the dog dying was a sad story but I'd imagine most dogs in ireland arent from 'reputable' breeders and last I heard there wasnt an epidemic of dogs having to be put down over bad hips -


Also wasnt there a thread recently on boards about a reputable breeder and crufts winner having a puppy farm?

Nobody on boards had 'dont but of a reputable breeder as they be a puppy farmer' thread -


Although its probably best buying dogs known for poor health due to breeding to buy of a reputable breeder but if you if you want to buy a dog not known for health issues like pitbull terriers and spaniels then I wouldnt bother forking out the few hundred extra on a dog that'll be no different.

The propaghada and comes out of some of the 'reputable' posters here does be astonishing.

You really think that I wanted to spend my Friday morning killing a beautiful dog? Just so that I can then come onto here and 'scaremonger'?

As we're talking about malamutes, lets discuss the line with epilepsy. I personally know someone who had to have their dog put to sleep at 18 months because it was so bad. I also know at least 4 other people who have dogs from those lines who have major aggression issues. I met one man with a dog from those lines, who proudly told me about his dog's heritage, that it had an American champion in it, so I knew what lines it was from. I told him about the epilepsy, so that he could keep an eye on his dog, but he ignored me and has bred from that dog at least once. Is it the breeders who then have to deal with those dogs' problems? No its not, its the owners, the dog wardens, the vets, the vet nurses, the behaviourists, the trainers and the shelters. Why should someone who works in a vets or in a pound have to kill dogs because of greedy breeders?

There isn't an epidemic of dogs in Ireland being put to sleep because of bad hips, but there is an epidemic of them being killed in pounds around the country. Does it really matter what the reason for them dying is, the fact is they are being killed and it all comes back to overbreeding to make a quick Euro.

Chris_Heilong

ISDW wrote: »

You really think that I wanted to spend my Friday morning killing a beautiful dog? Just so that I can then come onto here and 'scaremonger'?

As we're talking about malamutes, lets discuss the line with epilepsy. I personally know someone who had to have their dog put to sleep at 18 months because it was so bad. I also know at least 4 other people who have dogs from those lines who have major aggression issues. I met one man with a dog from those lines, who proudly told me about his dog's heritage, that it had an American champion in it, so I knew what lines it was from. I told him about the epilepsy, so that he could keep an eye on his dog, but he ignored me and has bred from that dog at least once. Is it the breeders who then have to deal with those dogs' problems? No its not, its the owners, the dog wardens, the vets, the vet nurses, the behaviourists, the trainers and the shelters. Why should someone who works in a vets or in a pound have to kill dogs because of greedy breeders?

There isn't an epidemic of dogs in Ireland being put to sleep because of bad hips, but there is an epidemic of them being killed in pounds around the country. Does it really matter what the reason for them dying is, the fact is they are being killed and it all comes back to overbreeding to make a quick Euro.

In the UK they started to import Malamutes to help establish the breed in 1964 and the Malamute club was started, when it was discovered that one of their foundation lines had a few cases of Hip dysplasia action had to be taken as this threatened the future of the breed there, All breeding was stopped until a new healthy line of dogs(Tote-Um line) could be imported and basically the breeding program reset-ted. There were no BYB of Malamutes in the UK at that time and it was reputable breeders that saw a problem in their dogs and done the right thing, Most of the Malamutes in Ireland I would imagine come from the UK lines and it is because of people trying to make fast money that this disease is starting to rare is ugly head once more.

Discodog

Many readers will be shocked or upset reading this thread but this happens every day in Irish rescues. This beautiful animal had to die because of poor breeding, neglect & the cost of treatment. Yet thousands of perfectly healthy dogs are killed but this is done out of sight & out of mind. Rescues have to constantly make these horrendous decisions yet people still post here complaining about them. They are accused of being too selective, bitchy or litigious yet if any of us spent a while in their shoes we would see why they might get a little touchy.

The recession is causing a triple whammy. The rescues are getting far less money, there are more dogs being dumped & more people are breeding as a way to make money. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that the majority of breeders really care. If any other profession was in such disrepute they would be clamouring to form an association to set & enforce standards. Some may remember the Dog Breeding ( anti puppy farming) Bill that now seems to of died a death. I have been assured that many of the objections to this Bill were from show breeders & clubs. Dog breeding is big business so there will be plenty who won't be put off by hereditary disease - after all they won't be paying the Vet bills.

Unfortunately Ireland is a country that likes owning dogs but not taking responsibility which is the worse combination. The desire, impulse, impatience, fashion, cheaper price etc all conspire to make people want a dog of a specific breed in a hurry. We all know that a responsible breeder will not have pups for sale - they will of been booked before they were born. I recently enquired regarding a Newfoundland pup. The breeder said that she was taking bookings for around January 2012 - the buyer bought one off an advert. There is no incentive for breeders to form an association as people will buy anyway. It's the buyers that fuel the demand yet there are complaints when we suggest a rescue dog.

ISDW has given us a personal insight into what is involved if you choose to help animals. A few of us will know exactly how she feels because we have been there. In this case there was no alternative & ISDW can rest easy knowing that she did the best thing for the dog.

So before we criticise a rescue or seek to curtail their promotion, try to imagine being in their shoes.

Cherry Blossom

Discodog wrote: »

Rescues have to constantly make these horrendous decisions yet people still post here complaining about them. They are accused of being too selective, bitchy or litigious yet if any of us spent a while in their shoes we would see why they might get a little touchy.

Sweeping statements about people in general who post on the forum are no longer tolerated as I'm sure you well know, this applies to everyone.

Discodog wrote: »

So before we criticise a rescue or seek to curtail their promotion, try to imagine being in their shoes.

I have no doubt in my mind whatsoever that you have used this thread as an opportunity to do a big soapbox routine in the culmination of having a pop at the updated rules of the forum, which just for the record has meant a huge increase of traffic through the forum, a much better atmosphere, a much more balanced view of pet ownership which is more representative of the world at large and most importantly allows the facts of important issues to be accessed by a much wider audience.

You can have a short break from the forum for your efforts.

Any Double !

ISDW wrote: »

This morning I took a beautiful 2 year old malamute bitch to the vet as I was very, very concerned about her back legs. I have her IKC papers, so know that was born in July 2009. She was handed over to me by a family who had her chained up in their back garden, and the man hit her repeatedly with a lead in front of me, trying to get her into my van.

I sat on the floor at the vet's surgery cradling her head (she was too big to go up on the table) while her front leg was shaved, and she was sedated. I fed her garlic sausage, her favourite treat while the vet then injected her and I felt her life slip away.

Miya had such severe hip displacia that the vet and I felt this was the kindest thing to do for her, she was in constant pain in both hips.

Please, please, please, if you are considering buying a puppy, only go to a reputable breeder who has done all the relevant health tests for that breed, and make sure that you see the results. I wrote to her breeder, but she never replied to me, so how many other mals are out there suffering in the same way?

If anyone has a malamute that was born in July 2009 and wants to know if they are litter mates, or indeed wants to check with me the dam or sires names, please pm me. I will be contacting the IKC, but really don't expect them to do anything.

Run free at the bridge Miya, you deserved so much more.

Very very sorry to hear of your loss and very brave of you to take the time to warn others. I could not agree more with your sentiments. I lost 2 Irish bred German Shepherds before their 4th birthdays in somewhat similiar circumstances and can understand your feelings. I had to then learn all about breeding lines and hip scores etc (things I knew nothing about) the hard way. Since then I've only bought German bred dogs as a result. I am no breeder and certainly no expert so it means research and driving out there personally to view and transport the dog home. I view xrays, medical reports and check the line. For me anyway it has worked well. Incidentally both dogs I lost were expensive and fully reg'd here in Ireland.
I am glad Miya found her way to you as she undoubtedly enjoyed her time with you and if not ending up with somebody so caring may still be suffering elsewhere. Well done !! God Bless

scudzilla

Sorry to hear of your loss, really shiitty when things like this happen.

As for reputable breeders, we'll be breeding our boxer in maybe 12months, are we reputable, no, because we don't have a reputation and we are not known. But before we even consider it we will be getting Brodi Hip tested, heart tested and any other tests that she may need, will also insist upon this with the father. If there's anything in the slightest wrong then we won't go ahead, wouldn't want to risk losing her.
Only doing it as we really want one of her pups, and already have 2 100% guaranteed friends who want one to.

Cherry Blossom

scudzilla wrote: »

Sorry to hear of your loss, really shiitty when things like this happen.

But before we even consider it we will be getting Brodi Hip tested, heart tested and any other tests that she may need, will also insist upon this with the father. If there's anything in the slightest wrong then we won't go ahead, wouldn't want to risk losing her.
Only doing it as we really want one of her pups, and already have 2 100% guaranteed friends who want one to.

And if all of these tests have good enough results I would imagine you won't have any trouble whatsoever finding 5 star homes for the rest of them . . .

Chris_Heilong

scudzilla wrote: »

Sorry to hear of your loss, really shiitty when things like this happen.

As for reputable breeders, we'll be breeding our boxer in maybe 12months, are we reputable, no, because we don't have a reputation and we are not known. But before we even consider it we will be getting Brodi Hip tested, heart tested and any other tests that she may need, will also insist upon this with the father. If there's anything in the slightest wrong then we won't go ahead, wouldn't want to risk losing her.
Only doing it as we really want one of her pups, and already have 2 100% guaranteed friends who want one to.

Yes but you are being responsible, In any breeder that would be the first thing I would ask for followed by a good knowledge of the breed and an obvious concern for where they pups will be going.

Hellrazer

scudzilla wrote: »

Sorry to hear of your loss, really shiitty when things like this happen.

As for reputable breeders, we'll be breeding our boxer in maybe 12months, are we reputable, no, because we don't have a reputation and we are not known. But before we even consider it we will be getting Brodi Hip tested, heart tested and any other tests that she may need, will also insist upon this with the father. If there's anything in the slightest wrong then we won't go ahead, wouldn't want to risk losing her.
Only doing it as we really want one of her pups, and already have 2 100% guaranteed friends who want one to.

If every breeder was to do the same we`d have a lot more healthier dogs on our hands.Fair play Scudzilla for thinking ahead like this.

ISDW

scudzilla wrote: »

Sorry to hear of your loss, really shiitty when things like this happen.

As for reputable breeders, we'll be breeding our boxer in maybe 12months, are we reputable, no, because we don't have a reputation and we are not known. But before we even consider it we will be getting Brodi Hip tested, heart tested and any other tests that she may need, will also insist upon this with the father. If there's anything in the slightest wrong then we won't go ahead, wouldn't want to risk losing her.
Only doing it as we really want one of her pups, and already have 2 100% guaranteed friends who want one to.

But that is what a reputable breeder is.

I don't know why people think that when I and others say reputable breeder, we mean someone who is 'known' thats not what I mean. I mean someone who puts the best interests of the animals first, before profit, by feeding properly, giving them a great life and doing all the relevant health tests for their breed. Someone who is responsible for those pups for the rest of their lives, so that if anything changes with the new owners, they will take the dog back. If you are breeding 50plus pups a year, you can't do that.

You sound as though you are going to be a responsible, reputable breeder, so fair play to you, that is all anybody can ask.

I am not against breeding, if we had no reputable, responsible breeders, breeding excellent quality dogs, then all we would have are accidental matings and people breeding purely for profit. If somebody wants a particular breed, they should be able to go and find a healthy, well bred specimen, so I am definitely not saying don't breed. All I'm asking is that people do it properly, putting the dog's health first.