€50 septic tank inspection or 1c text-message tax?

My name is URL

So the governemt is required by Europe to start inspecting septic tanks, at a cost of €50 for 450,000 homes across the country. It'll raise about €23 million in revenue, out of which wages and other expenses have to be paid.

If a 1c tariff on text-messages was introduced, it'd raise more than €60,000,000 per year in revenue and with a fraction of the costs attached to it, and that's a conservative estimate based on 2006 numbers.

Which would you prefer to pay; €50 once off for something which will be of little or no financial benefit to the country, or, 1c for every text you send, knowing that it will go towards more worthy projects, and more importantly that everyone is paying it?

Merch

Text-message tariff

So you want a 1 cent tax added to the cost of everyones text messages just to pay for inspections of septic tanks of 450,000 peoples homes?

But everyone that send s texts doesnt have a septic tank?

Are you also saying the inspection only costs €50 per tank? I thought it was much more.

This 1cent tax you approve of sounds very like adding a premium on all insurances to pay off quinn or pmpa. Let them pay their own inspections.
It isn't because it doesnt benefit me, but because it only benefits the people of each household for something they should be responsible for anyway.
Unless they are happy for their effluent to leak into the watercourses near where they live?

I will happily pay a 1cent tax per text message to fix A&E's or get people off hospital trollies, even if it never affects me/if i never have use for it.

red menace

Why choose?
Lets do both!

Samich

1c text tax, 1c is nothing!

namloc1980

Text-message tariff

The septic tank inspections are an EU environmental requirement that the Govt has to implement. Why should I have to pay a text tax (on top of 21% VAT might I add) just so some boggers can get a free septic tank inspection??

Caveman1

What I you have free texts to certain networks would you still be required to pay the 1c for each text?

red menace

My name is URL wrote: »

So the governemt is required by Europe to start inspecting septic tanks, at a cost of €50 for 450,000 homes across the country. It'll raise about €23 million in revenue, out of which wages and other expenses have to be paid.

If a 1c tariff on text-messages was introduced, it'd raise more than €60,000,000 per year in revenue and with a fraction of the costs attached to it, and that's a conservative estimate based on 2006 numbers.

Which would you prefer to pay; €50 once off for something which will be of little or no financial benefit to the country, or, 1c for every text you send, knowing that it will go towards more worthy projects, and more importantly that everyone is paying it?

Keeping raw sewage out of water courses is not worthy?
Less sick people better water quality not a good thing?

red menace

namloc1980 wrote: »

The septic tank inspections is an EU environmental requirement that the Govt has to implement. Why should I have to pay a text tax (on top of 21% VAT might I add) just so some boggers can get a free septic tank inspection??

Nothing was said about using the text tax to pay for the Septic tanks?

epgc3fyqirnbsx

We don't even have a sceptic tank at home, I wonder does that mean we get off or we're in trouble?

I'm not a fan of the tank tax but it would be interesting to see how the phone co's would respond to the text tax and how they would incorporate it into their packadges

Edit : A property tax is inevitable, this should cover any sceptic tank tax to be fair

namloc1980

Text-message tariff

red menace wrote: »

Nothing was said about using the text tax to pay for the Septic tanks?

So why are they being asked as a one or the other??

Bens

Anyway. I dont have a septic tank, so I think the charge should be €1000 a year. It would be a fair tax.
If I had one, i would like no spetic tank tax please. It would be unfair then.

Why not tax posts to message boards and facebook.
10c each post to start.
For each 1000 posts in your post count it then doubles.
Someone with 3000 posts pays 30c a post.
The benefit is that the more people give out about it the more they pay.
And it dissuades people from wasting huge parts of their work day posting on the web.

mikemac

namloc1980 wrote: »

so some boggers can get a free septic tank inspection??

Boggers are paying the same taxes yet they don't use council sewage services or ask the council to connect them.
Maybe everyone connected to the council should pay €50 extra too? Works both ways

epgc3fyqirnbsx

mikemac wrote: »

Boggers are paying the same taxes yet they get council sewage services.
Maybe everyone connected to the council should pay extra too? Works both ways

Boggers have also been paying for their water and refuse for years

mikemac

It's true

Had to laugh at Joe Higgins acting indigently and parading himself to jail for his Dublin voters while here in North Tipp anyway, people have paid for water and the council contracted bin services to a private operator for years

Poor, poor city folk

stimpson

Double the septic tank charge and give me a 1c discount on text messages.

red menace

namloc1980 wrote: »

So why are they being asked as a one or the other??

Ask the OP that, I interpreted it as which tax would be preferable.
I could be wrong though I do have a long history of being wrong

Logical Fallacy

Mobile companies will fight a 1c text tax till the sun expands and swallows us all.

whatsamsn

I dont get this thread

So instead of home owners who have septic tanks getting charged €50 euro a year, put a 1c charge on all text messages to pay for it?

:pac: .. you serious? so get other people to pay for something right? is what this thread is really talking about.

Biggins

Both?

namloc1980

Text-message tariff

mikemac wrote: »

It's true

Had to laugh at Joe Higgins acting indigently and parading himself to jail for his Dublin voters while here in North Tipp anyway, people have paid for water and the council contracted bin services to a private operator for years

Poor, poor city folk

If you choose to live in the middle of nowhere then don't expect general taxation to pay for a sewer pipe and a water pipe to your one off house.

My name is URL

Merch wrote: »

So you want a 1 cent tax added to the cost of everyones text messages just to pay for inspections of septic tanks of 450,000 peoples homes?

But everyone that send s texts doesnt have a septic tank?

Are you also saying the inspection only costs €50 per tank? I thought it was much more.

This 1 cent tax you approve of sounds very like adding a premium on all insurances to pay off quinn or pmpa. Let them pay their own inspections.
It isn't because it doesnt benefit me, but because it only benefits the people of each household for something they should be responsible for anyway.
Unless they are happy for their effluent to leak into the watercourses near where they live?

I will happily pay a 1cent tax per text message to fix A&E's or get people off hospital trollies, even if it never affects me/if i never have use for it.

It'll more than likely cost more, but the charge is €50. Money from other sources will need to be dipped into in order to pay for the initiative, which is why I think the text-charge is a better idea.

It's a scheme which Ireland doesn't really need right now, but we're bound to do it by the EU who are at the same time demanding that we meet the targets set out by them to repay our current debt. This stuff gets us into even more debt, or at least makes it more difficult for us to meet their conditions.

MrStuffins

Jaysus, this again!

A 1c text tax is a fantastically stupid idea! it only makes sense to morons, the same morons who would say "Yeah, i'm gonna sell single gloves in China. There's 1.3b people there, so even if I sell to just 1% of them i'll make a fortune".

It's a stupid idea!

Nonoperational

People will just use things like Viber and Whatsapp to avoid the 1C tax.

namloc1980

Text-message tariff

mikemac wrote: »

Boggers are paying the same taxes yet they don't use council sewage services or ask the council to connect them.
Maybe everyone connected to the council should pay €50 extra too? Works both ways

No, if you choose to live in the countryside in your one off house then you can't expect the local council to run a pipe to every house. You must pay for the choices you make I'm afraid.

Merch

Text-message tariff

Adriana Magnificent Scrabble wrote: »

We don't even have a sceptic tank at home, I wonder does that mean we get off or we're in trouble?

I'm not a fan of the tank tax but it would be interesting to see how the phone co's would respond to the text tax and how they would incorporate it into their packadges

Edit : A property tax is inevitable, this should cover any sceptic tank tax to be fair

While I dont agree with a property tax on a main residence, I cant see if it were implemented how it should cover the septic tank?its a different thing.

mikemac wrote: »

Boggers are paying the same taxes yet they don't use council sewage services or ask the council to connect them.
Maybe everyone connected to the council should pay €50 extra too? Works both ways

Some form of rates for waste disposal may come eventually too, in reality the UK poll tax or whatever it is now called pays for services in the area they are collected in, refuse to some extent, police. The reality is if rates were being payed for such, they would be lower in higher density areas. I understand what you say about working both ways, but I dont think its what it comes down to. Its not about fairness but paying for services we get.

Adriana Magnificent Scrabble wrote: »

Boggers have also been paying for their water and refuse for years

I dont think its a good idea to bring up/create a rural/urban divide, its not about what we/they have been/should have been doing or how/if its fair.

whatsamsn

the idea of this is a complete joke!
"I wanna get someone else to pay" should be the thread title.

epgc3fyqirnbsx

namloc1980 wrote: »

If you choose to live in the middle of nowhere then don't expect general taxation to pay for a sewer pipe and a water pipe to your one off house.

Lets all move to dublin so and increase congestion, property prices, social problems etc etc
And you don't have to live in the middle f nowhere to need a sceptic tank. There are alrady a lot of freebies living in Dublin and thats fine, no problems with that. But by your argument there shouldn't be...

Anyway, like I said a property tax will be introduced, we're one of the few in the world without one, and this should incorporate such charges

krudler

everyone just get Viber, free texts for everyone!

MrStuffins

Of course. And normally something like this would show the Government's ignorance and failure to keep up with technology, but not in this case. Because nobody has proposed this 1c Text Tax in about 2 years.

If they had, they'd know that it is easy right now to send text messages through apps and use these apps as part of your data plan. if a 1c tax comes in, everyone will stop texting. Why should they pay when they can do it for free?

The OP should've maybe thought this through instead of resurrecting an old, and well debated, topic!

mikemac

Fianna Fáil abolish local rates [Jack Lynch as I remember]
Fine Gael introduce property taxes

I can see the posters already for the next election

My name is URL

gpf101 wrote: »

People will just use things like Viber and Whatsapp to avoid the 1C tax.

Why would people do that because of a 1c increase? Those suggesting that people would use Viber instead, most likely already use Viber =p

starbelgrade

My name is URL wrote: »

It's a scheme which Ireland doesn't really need right now, but we're bound to do it by the EU who are at the same time demanding that we meet the targets set out by them to repay our current debt. This stuff gets us into even more debt, or at least makes it more difficult for us to meet their conditions.

It's a scheme that's long overdue. There's nearly half a million domestic waste water treatment systems in the country & many of them are substandard. The ones that are, are a danger to human health & the environment by polluting ground & surface water.

If Ireland doesn't introduce the scheme, we'll be facing hefty fines from the EU - much more than the cost of an annual inspection.

While it is an extra cost to those living in rural areas, I really do think it should be up to land owners that they protect not only their own environment, but their own health. They have a responsibilty to upkeep their lands & homes to the benefit of themselves & others.

The days of having the local farmer empty out your tank with a slurry tank & spread it God knows where are over. And so they should be.

MrStuffins

My name is URL wrote: »

Why would people do that because of a 1c increase? The people suggesting that people would use Viber instead, most likely already use Viber =p

Have you been living in a cave for the past 5 years?

People don't pay for text messages. Those on Bill Pay get an allowance every month. Others, like me, on Pay as you Go top-up their phones by €20 each month and receive free text messages.

Merch

Text-message tariff

My name is URL wrote: »

It'll more than likely cost more, but the charge is €50. Money from other sources will need to be dipped into in order to pay for the initiative, which is why I think the text-charge is a better idea.

It's a scheme which Ireland doesn't really need right now, but we're bound to do it by the EU who are at the same time demanding that we meet the targets set out by them to repay our current debt. This stuff gets us into even more debt, or at least makes it more difficult for us to meet their conditions.

Well, when I first heard of it I thought they were saying in the order of thousands, I'm not sure which one, but I got that figure from a radio programme, perhaps I either misheard it and they were saying if you get the inspection and your septic tank is not functioning then thats how much it will cost to replace??
I think 50 is very reasonable for those that have a tank, I just dont see why you think everyone that uses an unrelated service should be taxed to pay for it??
I'd say the timing isnt great due to the countrys' and individual financial circumstances, but I'd say its quite necessary. Surely its better this is implemented than be fined thousands daily? as you say yourself, we are bound to do it. I dont think our national debt for which the EU are helping bail us out is related and 50 a household doesnt drop us in it more deeply when we are up to our necks in billions of debt.
If nothing was done about it and people were falling ill because of a contaminated water supply, people would be up in arms nothing was being done!
We need to protect the environment of this country even if we are financially screwed, we are obliged to do this by laws/agreements?? with europe but also morally, cant just let our crap (literally) flow unrtreated into the land

epgc3fyqirnbsx

Merch wrote: »

While I dont agree with a property tax on a main residence, I cant see if it were implemented how it should cover the septic tank?its a different thing.

Some form of rates for waste disposal may come eventually too, in reality the UK poll tax or whatever it is now called pays for services in the area they are collected in, refuse to some extent, police. The reality is if rates were being payed for such, they would be lower in higher density areas. I understand what you say about working both ways, but I dont think its what it comes down to. Its not about fairness but paying for services we get.

Good points here but I think that it's a social question as much as anything. The fact is that rural dwellers don't earn as much as urban dwellers and never will. If it is also more expensive to actually live in a rural area this will cause a large change in demographics that is pretty far reaching. In the scheme of things 50 quid isn't much but it's a precedent that is being set. Part of living in a country is that relationships are mutually benificial, irban and rural both rely on each other and a balance needs to be achieved. It shouldn't be made any harder to live in one or the other imo

I dont think its a good idea to bring up/create a rural/urban divide, its not about what we/they have been/should have been doing or how/if its fair.

I agree but it was in response to an earlier pretty ignorant comment

My name is URL

MrStuffins wrote: »

Have you been living in a cave for the past 5 years?

People don't pay for text messages. Those on Bill Pay get an allowance every month. Others, like me, on Pay as you Go top-up their phones by €20 each month and receive free text messages.

Nothing's free.. you're extremely naive for somebody that likes to play the smartarse. Do you honestly think that networks offer free texts to customers? It's all included in what you already pay. I never mentioned increasing prices, I suggested a tariff on sent messages, and their numbers are recorded by networks and ComReg. It wouldn't even be you who were liable to pay, it would be the network's responsibility.

squod

Pity the fool who believes most people are going to pay that €50. Not a chance.

Merch

Text-message tariff

Adriana Magnificent Scrabble wrote: »

Merch wrote: »

Good points here but I think that it's a social question as much as anything. The fact is that rural dwellers don't earn as much as urban dwellers and never will. If it is also more expensive to actually live in a rural area this will cause a large change in demographics that is pretty far reaching. In the scheme of things 50 quid isn't much but it's a precedent that is being set. Part of living in a country is that relationships are mutually benificial, irban and rural both rely on each other and a balance needs to be achieved. It shouldn't be made any harder to live in one or the other imo

really it would be so difficult to determine who was earning what and where, in some ways Dublin costs are more, where rural dwelling has costs (such as commuting to and from places) that might be less/less necessary in urban areas. The costs of collecting refuse or providing services might be higher in rural due to the lower population density? it seems to me that the only fair way to achieve this without allowing politicians create a divide between rural/urban (the kinda pull the wool over peoples eyes that politicians use by saying "its those up in Dublin etc that are trying to take this money off you" when in reality they probably agree to it themselves) is that everyone will have to contribute for waste services equally in some way or another. I think this may come, when it seems people are worried that only a property tax or water rates are on the way.

Whatever comes of it, I just dont agree that charges/taxes should be applied to unrelated services.
I even believe our taxes should be itemised by location/region so we can see what we are paying for and what we are getting.

Applying charges to other services to cover this sounds like the PMPA and now the Quinn Insurance scams.

edit: If anyone didnt read that earlier, I didnt just quote myself, just realised it looks that way when i replied to the above poster

MrStuffins

My name is URL wrote: »

Nothing's free.. you're extremely naive for somebody that likes to play the smartarse. Do you honestly think that networks offer free texts to customers? It's all included in what you already pay. I never mentioned increasing prices, I suggested a tariff on sent messages, and their numbers are recorded by networks and ComReg. It wouldn't even be you who were liable to pay, it would be the network's responsibility.

No, I am no naive at all. For example, my Free Calls & Texts ran out today. I have been making phone calls and sending texts messages for the past month with no cost to myself. I topped up by €20 for the privilage, giving me €20 credit with the company.

Today I still have that €20 credit. It might not be cash in my pocket, but it's credit with the company.

Text Messages piggy back on existing signals so it costs the company no more money to provide you the service. However, if you think that just because it's the network that's responible to pay means that the cost won't be passed onto the customer, you are the naive one!

If you knew anything about Mobile Phones today, you would realise that all adding a 1c tax to text messages would do would be kill text messaging!

2 stroke

Many rural dwellers have their own well within 100 yards of their own septic tank, so they already have a vested interest in maintaining groundwater quality. The cost of sinking a well, maintaining it, plus electricty charges from running a pump are substantial, yet these same people currently fund council services,that they don't use, through taxation. Those that are connected to council services should fund those services. I understand that there already are heavy penalties, for those that polute watercourses and groundwater, that can be implemented.

Pete M.

If I had 1c for all the people who have said to me that they will go to jail before paying water charges/household charge/septic tank charge I'd have enough to pay a septic tank charge I reckon.

I look forward to the campaigns against all of these things and hope that there will be popular support for them.

The ways things have gone and continue to go, as if what has occurred in the past few years and that payment of debts that are not ours is somehow the right thing to do, continues to pi$$ me off no end.

They'll not have Thornton Hall built in time to hold all the defaulters :cool:

No pay cuts! No tax hikes! No charges! No! No! No!

Let's bring this diseased system to a point where it breaks and we get some real proper change.

TL/DR Tax Texts don't charge for crap :pac:

Pete M.

2 stroke wrote: »

Many rural dwellers have their own well within 100 yards of their own septic tank

Source?

And I don't mean in a drinking water sort of way:cool:

Don't hear of too many people who have their wells that close to their septic tanks or percolation areas actually.
Despite what city dwellers may think, us country folk ain't all stupid ya know.

Merch

Text-message tariff

Pete M. wrote: »

If I had 1c for all the people who have said to me that they will go to jail before paying water charges/household charge/septic tank charge I'd have enough to pay a septic tank charge I reckon.

I look forward to the campaigns against all of these things and hope that there will be popular support for them.

The ways things have gone and continue to go, as if what has occurred in the past few years and that payment of debts that are not ours is somehow the right thing to do, continues to pi$$ me off no end.

They'll not have Thornton Hall built in time to hold all the defaulters :cool:

No pay cuts! No tax hikes! No charges! No! No! No!

Let's bring this diseased system to a point where it breaks and we get some real proper change.

TL/DR Tax Texts don't charge for crap :pac:

money isn't going to come out of thin air? people wont work for free.
you want no tax hikes and no pay cuts and you want services to stay the same it seems? and at the same time you want to break the system to get real change, yet refuse to accept pay cut/tax increases?? seems illogical and a slightly shortsighted view to me, shortsightedness and an unwillingness to accept reality helped bring us where we are today.

7sr2z3fely84g5

taxing the shíte out of us.

Merch

Text-message tariff

Pete M. wrote: »

Source?

And I don't mean in a drinking water sort of way:cool:

Don't hear of too many people who have their wells that close to their septic tanks or percolation areas actually.
Despite what city dwellers may think, us country folk ain't all stupid ya know.

For the love of god, dont bring up that shyte please, "the city folk think us country bumpkins are all stoopid" stuff. Nonsense, if you think that yourself it only describes your own opinion of yourself, city dwellers as you put it cant all be that idiotic and neither are people from outside dublin from towns or in rural areas.
We will be fined to the tlts if this is not implemented and it makes good sense to ensure that septic tanks are functional.

2 stroke

Pete M. wrote: »

Source?

And I don't mean in a drinking water sort of way:cool:

Don't hear of too many people who have their wells that close to their septic tanks or percolation areas actually.
Despite what city dwellers may think, us country folk ain't all stupid ya know.

Consider having a house, well and septic tank on 1/4 acre. I don't know the rules now, but I'm fairly sure that in the past, 60 yards was the minimum distance between house/tank/well. I regularly visit two houses set up like this.

hatrickpatrick

The reason I wouldn't support a 1c text tax is because texting is pretty much free these days with O2 and vodafone's special offers, and I'd hate to see technology take a step backwards by going back to charging money for something which had become free.

Merch

Text-message tariff

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

The reason I wouldn't support a 1c text tax is because texting is pretty much free these days with O2 and vodafone's special offers, and I'd hate to see technology take a step backwards by going back to charging money for something which had become free.

Thats the only reason you oppose it??
I cant understand for the life of me why anyone would think placing a surcharge on a completely unrelated service is justified for paying for anything??? least of all something that makes sense to do.
Why not add a surcharge onto my motor tax to pay for it, because its ridiculous that another person should have to pay for something to benefit another individuals private usage of their own property.

MrStuffins

Merch wrote: »

Thats the only reason you oppose it??
I cant understand for the life of me why anyone would think placing a surcharge on a completely unrelated service is justified for paying for anything??? least of all something that makes sense to do.
Why not add a surcharge onto my motor tax to pay for it, because its ridiculous that another person should have to pay for something to benefit another individuals private usage of their own property.

Unless i'm mistaken, the only person suggesting this is the OP. He seemed to see a initiative including Septic Tanks and somehow bring an oudated debate from years ago crashing into the thread! The 2 things he's talking about have absolutely no connection except for the fact that he's put them both in the same post!

It beggers belief to be honest! It reminds me of the time Sideshow Bob ran for Mayor and was in a debate with Mayor Quimby.

Birch Barlow: Mayor Quimby, you are well known for your lenient stance on crime, but suppose for a second that your house was ransacked by thugs, your family was tied up in the basement with socks in their mouths, you try to open the door but there's too much blood on the knob....


Mayor Quimby: What is your question?


Birch Barlow: My question is about the budget, sir.

My name is URL

MrStuffins wrote: »

The 2 things he's talking about have absolutely no connection except for the fact that he's put them both in the same post!

And it's all too common these days. We are all paying increased levels of taxes even though services are being wound down. Instead the revenue goes towards the bailing out of people who're telling us that we need to tighten our belts and and at the same time to do more to pay for our sins.

Banks and taxes were two completely separate things too, until some genius decided to ''put them both in the same post''.

Merch

Text-message tariff

MrStuffins wrote: »

Unless i'm mistaken, the only person suggesting this is the OP. He seemed to see a initiative including Septic Tanks and somehow bring an oudated debate from years ago crashing into the thread! The 2 things he's talking about have absolutely no connection except for the fact that he's put them both in the same post!

It beggers belief to be honest! It reminds me of the time Sideshow Bob ran for Mayor and was in a debate with Mayor Quimby.

Birch Barlow: Mayor Quimby, you are well known for your lenient stance on crime, but suppose for a second that your house was ransacked by thugs, your family was tied up in the basement with socks in their mouths, you try to open the door but there's too much blood on the knob....


Mayor Quimby: What is your question?


Birch Barlow: My question is about the budget, sir.

I guess what Im trying to say is, I'm astounded there isn't more revulsion at the idea to add a surcharge to some unrelated service(texts) used by some people for some other facility availed of privately by others? Especially in the light of people having surcharges on insurances to pay for businesses failures.
It'd be like me saying add a surchgarge to everyones texts to pay for me servicing my car and disposing of the oil safely, because its an EU requirement to keep emissions down and dispose of hazardous waste (engine oil) correctly, but I am uninclined to pay for it myself, so to stop me pouring it down the drain, I insist others pay for it, someway somehow through a service they avail of, dont care if they dont drive and their damned if they will get a lift off me. I haven't taken a dump in these peoples toilets hence Im not paying to have their waste disposed of correctly.Its a small thing to have to pay/to do to ensure that thousands of dwellings are not polluting the ground they are on. Its a feature of living in a dwelling remote from a main line that takes the waste to be treated. As itys a feature of cars to change the oil and fill them with fuel. Mechanical/structural things fail/fail to operate correctly if they were even constructed correctly in the first place, an onus of responsibility exists for people that have made this choice to live where they do, even if they were not aware of it.