stake in ESB to be sold

Tora Bora

So comrade Rabbite, had announced that a minority stake in ESB will be sold.
I wonder what potential buyers will have to say about the gravy doshed out to the spoilt workers in ESB.

yobgod

if it is sold it should be sold to the irish people not sold to a group where the money leaves the country
this is the start of a new europe = usa
people need to wake up, march in the streets, take back our country

hmmm

This is a ridiculous idea. I've no doubt we will end bribing the ESB workers, a la Eircom, at great cost. No company is going to pay a large price for a minority stake in a semi state. A financially stupid idea, typical of politicians who have no idea how the real world works.

A split of the grid and generation parts of the ESB would have allowed the taxpayer to achieve a much higher price.

Good loser

hmmm wrote: »

This is a ridiculous idea. I've no doubt we will end bribing the ESB workers, a la Eircom, at great cost. No company is going to pay a large price for a minority stake in a semi state. A financially stupid idea, typical of politicians who have no idea how the real world works.

A split of the grid and generation parts of the ESB would have allowed the taxpayer to achieve a much higher price.

We're already bribing them - at great cost.

We should probably sell the whole lot.

jimmycrackcorm

Tora Bora wrote: »

I wonder what potential buyers will have to say about the gravy doshed out to the spoilt workers in ESB.

I seriously doubt the spoilt workers pay actually makes much difference to our bills when you compare the ratio of generation costs to employee pay.

Their working hours are a piss take though. I do think that they should be banned from striking.

Gumbo

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Their working hours are a piss take though. I do think that they should be banned from striking.

What do you mean working hours?
Werent they out all night the other day restoring power to homes cut off by the storm tail end?

kceire

kceire wrote: »

What do you mean working hours?
Werent they out all night the other day restoring power to homes cut off by the storm tail end?

Lots of ESB staff are not sparks or engineers.

HellFireClub

Sell the whole thing, we just need to make sure that we get the buyer to take Brendan Ogle as part of the deal.

bryaner

Don't forget Pat is being told what to do by our real bosses..

touts

The gravy eaters are balloting for strike to protect their position at the top of Irish society.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0915/esb.html

If the ESB go on strike it will destroy Ireland's business reputation internationally as it will shut production at many multinational companies. It also puts anyone in hospital in danger as most life saving equipment relies on a secure electricity supply. It's time for the government to introduce emergency leglislation to outlaw strike action in key public service sectors (ESB, Water, Hospitals etc) and give them the power to jail the more militant union leaders as economic terrorists.

sarumite

touts wrote: »

The gravy eaters are balloting for strike to protect their position at the top of Irish society.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0915/esb.html

If the ESB go on strike it will destroy Ireland's business reputation internationally as it will shut production at many multinational companies. It also puts anyone in hospital in danger as most life saving equipment relies on a secure electricity supply. It's time for the government to introduce emergency leglislation to outlaw strike action in key public service sectors (ESB, Water, Hospitals etc) and give them the power to jail the more militant union leaders as economic terrorists.

The Garda aren't allowed to go on strike though that didn't stop them from having the 'Blue Flu' a few years ago.

fliball123

Why dont they sell the whole thing keep the energy grid as part of the state and set up a new semi state one which offers cheaper elecy as their workers will not be paid as much as the ESB...see how long it is before ESB have to slash thier over inflated wages..The same should be done with CIE and other semi states

touts

fliball123 wrote: »

Why dont they sell the whole thing keep the energy grid as part of the state and set up a new semi state one which offers cheaper elecy as their workers will not be paid as much as the ESB...see how long it is before ESB have to slash thier over inflated wages..The same should be done with CIE and other semi states

Who in their right mind would buy even a minority stake in the company when you have to deal with the toxic combination of militant union leaders and overpaid staff.

HellFireClub

touts wrote: »

Who in their right mind would buy even a minority stake in the company when you have to deal with the toxic combination of militant union leaders and overpaid staff.

Only a sucker would get involved in this business, it isn't even on the market yet and already they are balloting for an all-out strike. Imagine if you worked for a private sector company and the boss decided to sell the business and you decided to organise a strike, you'd be fired so fast your feet wouldn't touch the ground!

fliball123

touts wrote: »

Who in their right mind would buy even a minority stake in the company when you have to deal with the toxic combination of militant union leaders and overpaid staff.

Not sure if they were selling the whole thing a private owner could turn to the unions and say F U I am going to do what I like .... strike away and I will wait till the employees come back....Remember the ESB are world wide not just Ireland

Scrappylad

touts wrote: »

fliball123 wrote: »

Why dont they sell the whole thing keep the energy grid as part of the state and set up a new semi state one which offers cheaper elecy as their workers will not be paid as much as the ESB...see how long it is before ESB have to slash thier over inflated wages..The same should be done with CIE and other semi states

Who in their right mind would buy even a minority stake in the company when you have to deal with the toxic combination of militant union leaders and overpaid staff.

I really wouldn't call the unions at esb militant. Bar Brendan ogle who is in danger of losing his post as secretary of the group of unions no other union leader in the esb could be defined as militant . They would be seen as one of the most right leaning group of unions. Sure there hasn't been an all out strike in the esb in well over 20 years.
I think your dramatising the whole thing.
It's not the overpaid workers in the esb that would support a strike anyway, because the people on the 75k+ a year are people in middle and upper management who will be trying to avoid a strike.
The strike will live or die by the conviction of the people on wages between 25 and 45,000 thousand a year. Which is the vast majority of the so called overpaid workers.

super_furry

All this talk of gravy has me starving here.

Godge

Scrappylad wrote: »

I really wouldn't call the unions at esb militant. Bar Brendan ogle who is in danger of losing his post as secretary of the group of unions no other union leader in the esb could be defined as militant . They would be seen as one of the most right leaning group of unions. Sure there hasn't been an all out strike in the esb in well over 20 years.
I think your dramatising the whole thing.
It's not the overpaid workers in the esb that would support a strike anyway, because the people on the 75k+ a year are people in middle and upper management who will be trying to avoid a strike.
The strike will live or die by the conviction of the people on wages between 25 and 45,000 thousand a year. Which is the vast majority of the so called overpaid workers.

If the average pay as reported is really 75k per year, then there would have to be a hell of a lot of senior management people supervising one or two ordinary workers. I find it hard to believe that anyone other than the cleaners, caretakers and secretaries are earning anything below 45k.

They haven't had a strike in 20 years because they have been bought off time and again.

Godge

hmmm wrote: »

This is a ridiculous idea. I've no doubt we will end bribing the ESB workers, a la Eircom, at great cost. No company is going to pay a large price for a minority stake in a semi state. A financially stupid idea, typical of politicians who have no idea how the real world works.

A split of the grid and generation parts of the ESB would have allowed the taxpayer to achieve a much higher price.

The workers in the ESB already have a stake in the company. Separate out the grid from the generation. Keep the grid completely in state ownership - this will mean giving the workers a greater share in the generation side of things. Then, sell off the rest of the generation capacity. Make sure we build more interconnectors so we can buy in from the UK.

Scrappylad

Godge wrote: »

Scrappylad wrote: »

I really wouldn't call the unions at esb militant. Bar Brendan ogle who is in danger of losing his post as secretary of the group of unions no other union leader in the esb could be defined as militant . They would be seen as one of the most right leaning group of unions. Sure there hasn't been an all out strike in the esb in well over 20 years.
I think your dramatising the whole thing.
It's not the overpaid workers in the esb that would support a strike anyway, because the people on the 75k+ a year are people in middle and upper management who will be trying to avoid a strike.
The strike will live or die by the conviction of the people on wages between 25 and 45,000 thousand a year. Which is the vast majority of the so called overpaid workers.

If the average pay as reported is really 75k per year, then there would have to be a hell of a lot of senior management people supervising one or two ordinary workers. I find it hard to believe that anyone other than the cleaners, caretakers and secretaries are earning anything below 45k.

They haven't had a strike in 20 years because they have been bought off time and again.

I can gaurantee beyond doubt that there are a multitude of linesmen and electricians on less than 45k per year.

IRISHREDSTAR

ESB workers are on average pay of 100,000 per year." Dublin is the most expensive followed by Rome, London and Amsterdam. Berlin moves
from being the second most expensive (in the total price rankings) to being one of the five
cheapest.
· Household electricity customers in Dublin pay around 140% more for their energy (excluding
distribution and taxes) than those in Paris" the E.U. price index- and that was before the public sector levy on household esb bills of 37 per year nor does it take into account standing charges of 120 year and before the 15% increase
no wonder companies that use electricity are leaving Ireland.

thebman

Might be a good time to buy those generators going in Aldi so :P

fliball123

Scrappylad wrote: »

I really wouldn't call the unions at esb militant. Bar Brendan ogle who is in danger of losing his post as secretary of the group of unions no other union leader in the esb could be defined as militant . They would be seen as one of the most right leaning group of unions. Sure there hasn't been an all out strike in the esb in well over 20 years.
I think your dramatising the whole thing.
It's not the overpaid workers in the esb that would support a strike anyway, because the people on the 75k+ a year are people in middle and upper management who will be trying to avoid a strike.
The strike will live or die by the conviction of the people on wages between 25 and 45,000 thousand a year. Which is the vast majority of the so called overpaid workers.

Thats because the average wage is 75k FFS why would they be feckin striking

Scrappylad

fliball123 wrote: »

Scrappylad wrote: »

I really wouldn't call the unions at esb militant. Bar Brendan ogle who is in danger of losing his post as secretary of the group of unions no other union leader in the esb could be defined as militant . They would be seen as one of the most right leaning group of unions. Sure there hasn't been an all out strike in the esb in well over 20 years.
I think your dramatising the whole thing.
It's not the overpaid workers in the esb that would support a strike anyway, because the people on the 75k+ a year are people in middle and upper management who will be trying to avoid a strike.
The strike will live or die by the conviction of the people on wages between 25 and 45,000 thousand a year. Which is the vast majority of the so called overpaid workers.

Thats because the average wage is 75k FFS why would they be feckin striking

Obviously it is the position they hold that precludes them from striking not solely the fact there wages are high . But the majority of the staff are are far less than the 74k a year

ei.sdraob

IRISHREDSTAR wrote: »

ESB workers are on average pay of 100,000 per year." Dublin is the most expensive followed by Rome, London and Amsterdam. Berlin moves
from being the second most expensive (in the total price rankings) to being one of the five
cheapest.
· Household electricity customers in Dublin pay around 140% more for their energy (excluding
distribution and taxes) than those in Paris" the E.U. price index- and that was before the public sector levy on household esb bills of 37 per year nor does it take into account standing charges of 120 year and before the 15% increase
no wonder companies that use electricity are leaving Ireland.

Well in all honesty the French are not afraid of the nuclear boogeyman (neither does paris resemble chernobyl)and are not wasting billions on subsidising chinese wind generator manufacturers

hence cheaper electricity

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

WalterMitty

Average pay in Viridian up north of this ISland is half of ESB average, so assuming a similar enough organisation structure then those in the south are vastly overpaid. Any job paying 80k in the ESB could easily be filled today for 50k or less given the highly skilled people on dole and being forced to emigrate. ESB has always been run to benefit the employees first and foremost and feck the owners(state) and consumers . You can even here it in the trad union reps who feel the comany is "theirs" and not beonging to everyone in country.

meditraitor

thebman wrote: »

Might be a good time to buy those generators going in Aldi so :P

ESB workers set to strike over sell-off plans



Speaking on RTE's Morning Ireland this morning, Jimmy Kelly of the trade union UNITE said his union did not accept that the ESB had to be sold off.

"We have been balloting our workers for industrial action. I think they're up for the fight that is needed over this."

The Government announced yesterday that it would sell a minority stake in the ESB but would not be breaking up the semi-state energy company.

No decision has been taken yet on the percentage of the company to be sold and there is no indication yet of how much will be raised.

Minister for Energy, Communications and Natural Resources Pat Rabbitte would not be drawn on how much a part-sale of the company would raise.

“We are not going to put it up on eBay next week,” he said.

“There is a process that has to be completed,” he said last night.

The Government needs to raise billions of euro from the sale of state assets under the terms of the EU/IMF €67.5bn bailout loans.

Other semi-state firms that could be sold off include the Government’s stake in Aer Lingus and a part-sale of Bord Gais.

The Government wants to put money it raises from selling state assets into Fine Gael’s New Era – a new semi-state designed to invest in infrastructure like broadband to create jobs.

However, the coalition is also under pressure from the EU/IMF to indicate how it plans to raise the funds from privatisations agreed the EU.

Do ye reckon they still have them generators?

jimmycrackcorm

kceire wrote: »

What do you mean working hours?
Werent they out all night the other day restoring power to homes cut off by the storm tail end?

Why, do they have storms to deal with every day?

I see them all the time arriving back to base at 4pm because they cannot countenance any travelling outside of the 9-5 normal working hours.

For times where they have to deal with storm damage, they get a fairl hefty extra allowance on top of overtime.

Scrappylad

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

kceire wrote: »

What do you mean working hours?
Werent they out all night the other day restoring power to homes cut off by the storm tail end?

Why, do they have storms to deal with every day?

I see them all the time arriving back to base at 4pm because they cannot countenance any travelling outside of the 9-5 normal working hours.

For times where they have to deal with storm damage, they get a fairl hefty extra allowance on top of overtime.

Where's the proof of this allowance on top of overtime?
I certainly know you will not find it because it's a complete and utter urban myth. Does not exist

rodento

As pointed out by others, the government has already sold shares to the staff of the ESB, so they can't really complain

hmmm

Thinking more about this, this will be a blocking stake that will prevent a sell-off of the entire company. If a majority stake is sold, the owner will end up owning the transmission network which is obviously crazy. The previous governments intention was to split the transmission network, which would allow the generation part to be sold in part or in its entirety.

In the current environment, no government will be able to allow a private company take majority ownership of the transmission network. Neither will it be able to split the company in any easy fashion, not without compensating the minority shareholder.

I wonder if this is a plan by Labour to sneakily keep the entire ESB in public ownership.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Why, do they have storms to deal with every day?

I see them all the time arriving back to base at 4pm because they cannot countenance any travelling outside of the 9-5 normal working hours.

For times where they have to deal with storm damage, they get a fairl hefty extra allowance on top of overtime.

This is something I'm familiar with having had reason to observe the activity first hand. They work half hour lunches to finish at 4:30 (3:30 on Friday for 39 hour week) Trucks arrive back at base to unload scrap, load materials for the next day, there are work schedules to prepare for the next day, completed work forms to be filled in etc.

AND there is absolutely no extra allowance on top of overtime. Care to stand over that comment and give the basis you have for saying it?

i certainly don't envy them working on power lines in storms!

20Cent

If the ECB/IMF want us to sell assets then it should be insisted that they drop the unsecured guaranteed debt they are making us pay.

As for the fans of privatisation if you think it will result in cheaper electricity think again. Will be asset stripped sold again and again with a small few people getting all the money.

Pete_Cavan

touts wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0915/esb.html

Interesting interviews there in the audio tab. Richard Tol, energy economist from the ESRI, says the current proposal of selling a minority stake is going down the Eircom route by not reforming the market first. He claims the sum of the parts are more valuable then the whole company and we would get more money by breaking up the company and selling certain parts. allowing a private company to by into the whole company, distribute infrastructure and all, will make it harder to break up the company in the future.

I reckon that, if they proceed with the current plan, in the next 20-30 years the state will have to buy back this minority share at a much greater price (similar to buying out the toll on M50) so that they then split the company and sell power generation assets (which when current assets become obsolete will be too expensive for the government to replace). I am actually rooting for the unions on this and hope the Minister backs down because he is going about this all wrong.

sarumite

20Cent wrote: »

As for the fans of privatisation if you think it will result in cheaper electricity think again. Will be asset stripped sold again and again with a small few people getting all the money.

Most people who seem to be proponents of privatisation seem to support the idea of the goverment maintaining ownership of the grid itself and privatising the generation side. By breaking it up in such a manner there is very little room for asset stripping.

20Cent

sarumite wrote: »

Most people who seem to be proponents of privatisation seem to support the idea of the goverment maintaining ownership of the grid itself and privatising the generation side. By breaking it up in such a manner there is very little room for asset stripping.

8 billion is being suggested as a price thats 1/4 of what we are being forced to pay for the criminal enterprise which was Anglo Irish Bank. Once sold it would be very hard to get back. With energy being of systematic importance to the country selling it seems very foolish. Plus its a terrible time to sell the price will be very low compared to what it should be.
Hope you are right about breaking it up to prevent asset stripping but won't be holding my breath considering the record of Irish govs with these things.

sarumite

20Cent wrote: »

8 billion is being suggested as a price thats 1/4 of what we are being forced to pay for the criminal enterprise which was Anglo Irish Bank.

C'mon, we both know that the 8billion doesn't even cover the deficit for 2011....while it's certainly gratifying to blame the banks, they are not the sole reason we are looking to sell some of ESB.

Once sold it would be very hard to get back. With energy being of systematic importance to the country selling it seems very foolish.

There has been no suggestion of selling the grid from what I have read. Even the most ardent advocate of privitisation on boards.ie seems to agree that the government should retain ownership of the grid.

Plus its a terrible time to sell the price will be very low compared to what it should be.

You mean compared to the possible boom prices.....which were probably artificially high.

Hope you are right about breaking it up to prevent asset stripping but won't be holding my breath considering the record of Irish govs with these things.

Considering the current situation with ESB (amongst others), I don't trust the government as it is. The more we learn about government run institutions the less trust I have in the government in doing anything right.

20Cent

sarumite wrote: »

C'mon, we both know that the 8billion doesn't even cover the deficit for 2011....while it's certainly gratifying to blame the banks, they are not the sole reason we are looking to sell some of ESB.

They but they are most of the reason. If the money is used to pay some of the deficit that would be something but paying Anglo debt is as good as burning it.

sarumite wrote: »

There has been no suggestion of selling the grid from what I have read. Even the most ardent advocate of privitisation on boards.ie seems to agree that the government should retain ownership of the grid.

Why not? I thought privatisation meant better value and a more efficient service.

sarumite wrote: »

You mean compared to the possible boom prices.....which were probably artificially high.

No compared to the profits that can be generated by it. I've seen 6billion mentioned which would be a paltry sum for it.

sarumite wrote: »

Considering the current situation with ESB (amongst others), I don't trust the government as it is. The more we learn about government run institutions the less trust I have in the government in doing anything right.

Check out Enrons behavior in California to see what can happen when essential services are privatised. There is an energy crisis on the way so I'd still prefer us to have control over it.

meditraitor

why has ESB not paid a proper dividend to the Exchequer in the past 30 years?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

meditraitor wrote: »

why has ESB not paid a proper dividend to the Exchequer in the past 30 years?

ESB has paid massive dividends every year. €77Million this year even with a €100M+ pre-tax loss.

Why do you think they haven't paid dividends? Also consider that the exchequer has NEVER put money into ESB - it has always been self financing.

sarumite

20Cent wrote: »

They but they are most of the reason. If the money is used to pay some of the deficit that would be something but paying Anglo debt is as good as burning it.

Different argument and totally irrelevent to this thread. The sale is being used to help resolve our debt/deficit crisis. If you want to argue over what part of the debt we should or shouldn't be paying, then I suggest you find a more suitable thread.

Why not? I thought privatisation meant better value and a more efficient service.

Thats actually not my argument for privatisation. I believe that having one company control the vast majority of electricity supply is a bad idea. Breaking up the monolith that is ESB would mean that no one company can control the nations entire power supply (airtricity is a small bit player in the grander scheme of things). Its more difficult to break up the interconnected grid and giving it up wholesale would be counter productive to aformentioned goal.

No compared to the profits that can be generated by it. I've seen 6billion mentioned which would be a paltry sum for it.

Until we have an actual price, what some commentators mentions as a possible price doesn't really grab my interest in discussing it.

Check out Enrons behavior in California to see what can happen when essential services are privatised. There is an energy crisis on the way so I'd still prefer us to have control over it.

Non-sequiter. Enron is what happens when a company is badly run by people committing criminal acts with poor coporate governance and mismanaged accounts. Using an Enron as an example of why we shouldn't allow privatisation would be like me using Stalin as an example of why we shouldn't allow government control. As for the energy crisis, I don't see how the government controlling the power generation side of the equation will be able to resolve the problems of peak oil distribution any more than if it is being done by private enterprises.

sarumite

Jacoby Many Treatment wrote: »

ESB has paid massive dividends every year. €77Million this year even with a €100M+ pre-tax loss.

Why do you think they haven't paid dividends? Also consider that the exchequer has NEVER put money into ESB - it has always been self financing.

77million really isn't that big if we compared to a possible windfall of 8000 million if we were to sell it.

sarumite

nokia lady wrote: »

who would pay 8b for it?its worth it but a lot of houses are worth more than they are sold for.its the bottom of the market at the moment and worst possible time to sell im sure you will agree.if they got 6b it would be remarkable..the issue doesnt arise because they are only selling a portion of it?

I did say possible. Until we get an actual figure everything else is just conjecture. As for comparing ESB to the post bubble property market, there is no correlation. The two operate in different markets.

20Cent

sarumite wrote: »

Different argument and totally irrelevent to this thread. The sale is being used to help resolve our debt/deficit crisis. If you want to argue over what part of the debt we should or shouldn't be paying, then I suggest you find a more suitable thread.

The Bonds are the ONLY issue. You know we are paying 1'5 billion today for unsecured bonds in AIB!! Pretending its not is moving deckchairs on the titanic. The clamour to sell assets is more to do with pressure from the ECB/IMF to grab them before the inevitable default. A lot of this anti semi state noise is a wing agenda of privatisation rather than what is best for the country. Feck the country so long as those "socialist" workers get fecked.

sarumite wrote: »

Thats actually not my argument for privatisation. I believe that having one company control the vast majority of electricity supply is a bad idea. Breaking up the monolith that is ESB would mean that no one company can control the nations entire power supply (airtricity is a small bit player in the grander scheme of things). Its more difficult to break up the interconnected grid and giving it up wholesale would be counter productive to aformentioned goal.

Even controling one part that is systematic is dangerous. Private company will run it as cheaply as possible and spend as little as possible on maintenance. When it breaks down then they will be crying to the taxpayer for a bailout.

sarumite wrote: »

Until we have an actual price, what some commentators mentions as a possible price doesn't really grab my interest in discussing it.

Fair enough. I was commenting on a reported price which is far too little. Even the left wing looney Colm McCarthy said its a bad time to sell on Primetime last night.

sarumite wrote: »

Non-sequiter. Enron is what happens when a company is badly run by people committing criminal acts with poor coporate governance and mismanaged accounts. Using an Enron as an example of why we shouldn't allow privatisation would be like me using Stalin as an example of why we shouldn't allow government control. As for the energy crisis, I don't see how the government controlling the power generation side of the equation will be able to resolve the problems of peak oil distribution any more than if it is being done by private enterprises.

Sounds exactly like a lot of companies running in Ireland. You think we have good corporate governance and good account keeping!!

Greece are due to default, this will cause more defaults all over the EU. Pretty much every economists predicts Ireland to default at some stage. Worst case scenario we default after selling the family jewels. You don't show all your cards at the start of the game hang on to them and use them when they cause maximum advantage.

Welease

Jacoby Many Treatment wrote: »

Why do you think they haven't paid dividends? Also consider that the exchequer has NEVER put money into ESB - it has always been self financing.

Are you sure? Don't they receive subsidies every year for the peat fired stations (I believe it was about €70m in 2010)? Other subsidies cover connections, wind etc as far as I know.

http://www.sbpost.ie/commentandanalysis/the-muddled-thinking-thats-pushing-up-electricity-prices-51064.html

sarumite

20Cent wrote: »

The Bonds are the ONLY issue. You know we are paying 1'5 billion today for unsecured bonds in AIB!! Pretending its not is moving deckchairs on the titanic. The clamour to sell assets is more to do with pressure from the ECB/IMF to grab them before the inevitable default. A lot of this anti semi state noise is a wing agenda of privatisation rather than what is best for the country. Feck the country so long as those "socialist" workers get fecked.

Honestly, if you are just going to repeat the same irrelevant noise and throw in a consipiracy theory to boot, then excuse me if I choose to ignore it.

Even controling one part that is systematic is dangerous. Private company will run it as cheaply as possible and spend as little as possible on maintenance. When it breaks down then they will be crying to the taxpayer for a bailout.

From my experience, the contrary is true. Government run institutions (I worked for the NHS in England as well as a university in Ireland) are always lacking in money for proper maintenance. The university I worked for didn't have a maintenance contract for an essential instrument. I also worked for a private company who were less concerned with the cost of maintenance as they knew that downtime cost them money. This is my ancedotal experience. However if you can cite actual facts rather than throw out unsubstantiated accusstion, I am all ears.

Sounds exactly like a lot of companies running in Ireland. You think we have good corporate governance and good account keeping!!

Serioulsy, outside of banking (which was a systemic problem internationally) can you cite actual facts or is it just back to unsubstanitaed accusations. Enron is the worst possible scenario of privatisation and Stalin is the worst possible scenario of public ownership. Niether represent the norm.

Greece are due to default, this will cause more defaults all over the EU. Pretty much every economists predicts Ireland to default at some stage. Worst case scenario we default after selling the family jewels. You don't show all your cards at the start of the game hang on to them and use them when they cause maximum advantage.

You also shoudln't lose the home over your head while clinging to your pear necklace. The point of selling ESB is to try and avoid default. If we default it would probably mean selling ESB anyway to help balance the books overnight.

20Cent

sarumite wrote: »

Honestly, if you are just going to repeat the same irrelevant noise and throw in a consipiracy theory to boot, then excuse me if I choose to ignore it.

Grand, no point debating with someone who doesn't acknowledge the main issue.

sarumite

20Cent wrote: »

Grand, no point debating with someone who doesn't acknowledge the main issue.

Agreed.

sarumite

the Irish times is running an editorial on the title "selling a stake in the ESB"

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0916/1224304193753.html

I think the salient points I took from the editorial, and which I totally agree with were

Privatisation of the telephone network 12 years ago, the subsequent plunder of the company by financial interests, and their failure to invest in new technology provides the Government with hard evidence of the risks involved in disposing of State assets

Governments have bought industrial peace at the State’s electricity monopoly for the past quarter century and what were once good jobs are now well- remunerated great jobs. On top of that, employees were granted 5 per cent of the company. Money, you could say, for old rope.

When public service pay was cut by the government, commercial State bodies remained untouched. ESB employees actually received increases. Their behaviour at a time of national economic crisis was on a par with that of a minority of selfish judges who refused to share the public’s burden.

, discussions will take place with members of the EU-IMF troika on whether some of the money can be devoted to job creation. A positive response to that request may lead to a formal announcement in the December budget. One way or another, confrontation over control of the electricity network appears inevitable.

HellFireClub

Yet again in this country, we are seeing an issue being completely fudged and the approch is one of generally having a fiddle around with the edges of a problem as opposed to dealing with it as it as, and not how we wished it to be, and yet again, the entity that's the subject of change here is a highly unionised "public sector/semi state" entity.

This government seem incapable of actually making any fully committed decision on anything.

If we have committed to selling state assets in order to pay down our debt, just pick what you need to sell and sell it, or else don't, but make a decision and for christs sake get on with it...