Trinity invite BNP leader Nick Griffin over for debate on immigration

Wolfe Tone

The trinners have invited him over for a debate titled "This house believes immigration has gone too far"

What do you guys think about this? In my opinion the man is a complete fascist lowlife, a racist, an anti Semite and a general all round scumbag.

He maintains that as a result of immigration many British and English people have been "ethnically cleansed from their own country".

What does he think of the Irish?

‘We are certainly not going to shut the doors to the Irish, because the Irish, as far as we are concerned, are part of Britain and fully entitled to come here.’

Cheers Nick!


Are Trinity right to give him a platform for his bile? Should he be told to feck off back home? Or is it beneficial to hear from the likes of him, better than censoring and stifling his reprehensible views?

Personally I feel that if he is to be given a platform for his views it should be similar to his appearance on "Question Time" a while back. (for those who never saw it he was challenged and held to account at every turn by the other guests and was not given an easy ride by any stretch of the imagination)

Links:
http://comeheretome.wordpress.com/2011/09/14/youd-never-guess-who-is-coming-to-trinity-college/

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/54666/bnp-leader-nick-griffin-given-debate-platform-trinity-college-dublin

Morlar

Free speech isn't just for people you approve of. So my vote is yes.

dlofnep

I believe in freedom of speech - so they have a right to invite him. I don't agree with his views, and recognise that he's a neo-nazi in sheep's clothing. However, everyone has a right to voice their views.

We have nothing to fear - his bigotry will be exposed. The issue of immigration itself requires a rational discussion at some point.

Bloody Nipples

There's no better tool for showing the world what a scumbag he is than giving him free reign to air his views.

Saila

ho-lee-fook

megaten

Sounds like it's going to be hilarious. Hopefully they'll have some one who can make as big a fool out of him as possible. Not that he needs help.

texidub

He should be free to speak his mind. Those opposed should be free to speak theirs. What's the problem?

shofukan

HE might be a complete dick but he has every right to speak his mind.

also inb4 ucd v trinity

The Scientician

Morlar wrote: »

Free speech isn't just for people you approve of. So my vote is yes.

I believe in free speech but giving fascists/racists a legitimising platform for their venomous bullshít could possibly backfire for Trinity. Anyway I'm planning on firebombing the venue.... WITH LOVE AND PEACE FOR ALL MANKIND.


By the way freedom of speech isn't equal to he must be allowed speak at a Trinity event. It's not a public place so it's entirely at the discretion of organisers whether he's allowed speechify. Freedom of speech doesn't come into it.

foxyboxer

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

The trinners have invited him over for a debate titled "This house believes immigration has gone too far"

Free speech and all that yeah, but I have a feeling I already know his views on this subject. Point is what's the point.

Hercule Poirot

I would let him have at it, some will say that we shouldn't give him a platform form which to spew his opinions, but I reckon, like Question Time, it will do him more harm than good.

Teddy_Picker

Hercule Poirot wrote: »

I would let him have at it, some will say that we shouldn't give him a platform form which to spew his opinions, but I reckon, like Question Time, it will do him more harm than good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwrdDs0nmyg

biko

Let the man speak, I'm sure there'll be equally crazy arguments coming from the far left.

crucamim

Nick is a great man - a man who, despite his priviliged upbringing and first class education, has not turned his back on the working class members of England's native race.

Be nice to Nick as he might one day be Prime Minister of the UK.

The Scientician

biko wrote: »

Let the man speak, I'm sure there'll be equally crazy arguments coming from the far left.

What does the house debate title even mean? Immigration has gone too far in Britain? in Ireland? Everywhere? Griffin isn't well placed to talk about the immigration situation in the Republic of Ireland and I can only think he was invited over as an edgy publicity stunt for the college debating society. It's a cheap move, will generate a bit of a stir, and he'll still be a racist, fascist cúnt at the end of it.

wes

He has the right to have his say. Personally, I think providing platfrom for his ilk, pretty much allows them to hang themselves, so to speak.

Also, clearly this isn't meant to be a serious debate on immigration as Griffin is an extremist. It smacks a bit of theatre imho.

Kev_ps3

Trinity are about as Unionist as Mr Griffin

UglyBolloxFace

crucamim wrote: »

Nick is a great man - a man who, despite his priviliged upbringing and first class education, has not turned his back on the working class members of England's native race.

Be nice to Nick as he might one day be Prime Minister of the UK.

Post count = 666 :eek:

KeithAFC

Why not? Is he not allowed an opinion? Surely he is entitled to speak?

Wolfe Tone

Morlar wrote: »

Free speech isn't just for people you approve of. So my vote is yes.

I agree, but this has nothing to do with freedom of speech, its a debate being held by Trinity and they choose who to invite, are they right to invite an extremist like him?

Why have they invited him? For the circus surrounding his appearance I bet.

Hopefully he will end up looking like a fool at the end of it and people will see through his "I'm not a bad guy" act.

stovelid

I'm old enough to have turned out against Irving in the same place all those years back but nowadays I don't necessarily believe in suppressing free speech of people like him.

Ban a rally in, say, a racially mixed area sure but not a debate in a university debating chamber.

It's almost a rite of passage for people involved in university debating societies anyway: invite the current fascist de jour for chat and watch the place erupt.

problemchimp

crucamim wrote: »

Nick is a great man - a man who, despite his priviliged upbringing and first class education, has not turned his back on the working class members of England's native race.

Be nice to Nick as he might one day be Prime Minister of the UK.

You're a funny bloke, love the sarcasm. I bet a lot of people thought you were serious, but they just don't get good humour.

KeithAFC

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I agree, but this has nothing to do with freedom of speech, its a debate being held by Trinity and they choose who to invite, are they right to invite an extremist like him?

Why have they invited him? For the circus surrounding his appearance I bet.

Hopefully he will end up looking like a fool at the end of it and people will see through his "I'm not a bad guy" act.

Haven't Sinn Fein been given a platform to speak at Trinity?

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

Haven't Sinn Fein been given a platform to speak at Trinity?

For fcuk sake Keith, wtf do SF have to do with this? Is this going to be another "look at me I'm a loyalist!!" performance from you? Its fcuking old.

If you want to hear Sinn Féin speak head up to Stormont.

spider guardian

Let him speak and let him be rebuked

Kev_ps3

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

For fcuk sake Keith, wtf do SF have to do with this? Is this going to be another "look at me I'm a loyalist!!" performance from you? Its fcuking old.

If you want to hear Sinn Féin speak head up to Stormont.

Boards is run by loyalist mods, they are hardly going to punish him.

stovelid

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

For fcuk sake Keith, wtf do SF have to do with this? Is this going to be another "look at me I'm a loyalist!!" performance from you? Its fcuking old.

If you want to hear Sinn Féin speak head up to Stormont.

It's not a bad point even if he's got a loyalist axe to grind.

You're opposing a platform for Griffin on idealogical lines that have as much subjective basis as, say, innocent victims of IRA violence would have had about denying SF a platform during the Troubles.

Not that I would have opposed SF having a platform then or now, mind, but his analogy is solid enough if unfortunately based on an equally subjective idealogical basis.

KeithAFC

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

For fcuk sake Keith, wtf do SF have to do with this? Is this going to be another "look at me I'm a loyalist!!" performance from you? Its fcuking old.

If you want to hear Sinn Féin speak head up to Stormont.

Well I bring it up because it is a good example of something called free speech and democracy. Sinn Fein have people in its ranks far worse than Nick Griffin. So why is this story such a big deal?

It isn't and I don't see the big deal with this? He is just another person giving his opinion. They invited him, so obviously they agree with the view of free speech.

Wattle

I remember seeing him on Question Time. He was sweating like a newly released paedophile.

But he thinks we're alright so it's a big cead mihle failte to you Nick.

Wolfe Tone

stovelid wrote: »

It's not a bad point even if he's got a loyalist axe to grind.

You're opposing a platform for Griffin on idealogical lines that have as much subjective basis as, say, innocent victims of IRA violence would have had about denying SF a platform during the Troubles.

Not that I would have opposed SF having a platform then or now, mind, but his analogy is solid enough if unfortunately based on an equally subjective idealogical basis.

Its simply an attempt, as you can see in his reply, to derail this thread into a SF bashing exercise.

"much worse people in SF" Tell me thats not an attempt to derail the thread.

I'm not opposing, I was asking if people think its right, sure I said in my first post that I feel its OK as long as he isn't given an easy ride.

ItsAWindUp

Bit ridiculous having a debate without inviting two sides of the argument.

stovelid

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Trinity are about as Unionist as Mr Griffin

I sincerely hope that you are not indicative of the current intellectual fibre of Republicanism in this country.

Or actually, maybe I am.

Da Shins Kelly

Sounds like a move to generate controversy around the debate, and basically to get people to go to it.

stovelid

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Its simply an attempt, as you can see in his reply, to derail this thread into a SF bashing exercise.

You occupy the two opposite poles of an idealogical position and as such he could possibly view a lot of your posts as bashing his views.

Maybe both your views need equal bashing.:pac:

Personally I would oppose a Loyalist/SF/NF rally in Catholic/Protestant/Ethnic areas but I would always allow them to debate - espcially in the rarified atmosphere of a uni where you are hardly dealing with people directly involved with the areas that these guys operate within in real life.

Not something I would have agreed with when younger (I turned out against Irving in TCD) but I'm older now.

FlutterinBantam

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Sounds like a move to generate controversy around the debate, and basically to get people to go to it.

Well done Sherlock, well done.

Nothing personal now.

Chris P. Bacon

Has he even accepted the invitation?

The Scientician

stovelid wrote: »

It's not a bad point even if he's got a loyalist axe to grind.

You're opposing a platform for Griffin on idealogical lines that have as much subjective basis as, say, innocent victims of IRA violence would have had about denying SF a platform during the Troubles.

Except that republicanism isn't inherently reprehensible in the way the ideology of Griffin's party should be to any rightminded individual here or in Britain.

Of course the actions of some in Sinn Féin in the name of their ideology have been reprehensible in extremis.

FlutterinBantam

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Hopefully he will end up and people will see through his "I'm not a bad guy" act.

Remind you of anyone we know?

:rolleyes:

KeithAFC

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Its simply an attempt, as you can see in his reply, to derail this thread into a SF bashing exercise.

"much worse people in SF" Tell me thats not an attempt to derail the thread.

I'm not opposing, I was asking if people think its right, sure I said in my first post that I feel its OK as long as he isn't given an easy ride.

Not at all. Ok, put SF to the side. Surely other parties you might disagree with have held a discussion at trinity before. So what is the big deal with Nick Griffin doing it?

You might not agree with him but surely he is entitled to speak if invited?

Biggins

crucamim wrote: »

...Be nice to Nick as he might one day be Prime Minister of the UK.

Himmm Honestly - can't see it happening.

Super-Rush

Subscribes to thread.

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

Not at all. Ok, put SF to the side. Surely other parties you might disagree with have held a discussion at trinity before. So what is the big deal with Nick Griffin doing it?

You might not agree with him but surely he is entitled to speak if invited?

Keith, I said my first post that its grand as long as he doesn't get an easy ride at the debate, for instance I wasn't against his appearance on Question Time.

I was just curious if the people of AH felt trinity were right to invite him to their debate and give him a platform.

FlutterinBantam

stovelid wrote: »

You occupy the two opposite poles of an idealogical position and as such he could possibly view a lot of your posts as bashing his views.

Maybe both your views need equal bashing.:pac:

Personally I would oppose a Loyalist/SF/NF rally in Catholic/Protestant/Ethnic areas but I would always allow them to debate - espcially in the rarified atmosphere of a uni where you are hardly dealing with people directly involved with the areas that these guys operate within in real life.

Not something I would have agreed with when younger (I turned out against Irving in TCD) but I'm older now.

Irving?


Who was this guy?

Wolfe Tone

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Irving?


Who was this guy?

I presume the holocaust denier.

KeithAFC

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Keith, I said my first post that its grand as long as he doesn't get an easy ride at the debate, for instance I wasn't against his appearance on Question Time.

I was just curious if the people of AH felt trinity were right to invite him to their debate and give him a platform.

I doubt he will. But Question Time wasn't a good sign of a debate either. It just had audience members heckling him and even one insulting him.

Wolfe Tone

KeithAFC wrote: »

I doubt he will. But Question Time wasn't a good sign of a debate either. It just had audience members heckling him and even one insulting him.

It was more than that tbf

HavingCrack

Out of interest who is invited to be his opponent?

Presumably someone from the far left, I would guess.

LondonIrish90

KeithAFC wrote: »

I doubt he will. But Question Time wasn't a good sign of a debate either. It just had audience members heckling him and even one insulting him.

Question Time is not the programme to watch should you want questions and debating between a panel and an audience who represent society proportionally. People who have extreme, almost delusional views and ideals are those who make up a fairly hefty amount of the audience. Many I know don't bother watching it because it is such a ridiculous and anger inducing programme. Nick Griffin held his own on his appearance anyway, on a programme aimed at humiliating the BNP (which it didn't) instead of hearing the views and opinions of panel members on topical issues.

Anyway, opinion polls now show that over 80% of British people believe immigration has gone too far. It is only now that people are realising that if anything is to be done about it, more extreme parties will be those who create the pressure and the prolonged exposure needed to see things through. This is why parties such as UKIP and the BNP are on the rise.

LondonIrish90

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Keith, I said my first post that its grand as long as he doesn't get an easy ride at the debate, for instance I wasn't against his appearance on Question Time.

Oh, very good of you. Are you a BBC licence payer then?

crucamim

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Boards is run by loyalist mods, they are hardly going to punish him.

Thank you for that information. I had suspected that most of the Mods are anti-Catholics but I never suspected that they were Ulster Protestants.

Wolfe Tone

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Question Time is not the programme to watch should you want questions and debating between a panel and an audience who represent society proportionally. People who have extreme, almost delusional views and ideals are those who make up a fairly hefty amount of the audience. Many I know don't bother watching it because it is such a ridiculous and anger inducing programme. Nick Griffin held his own on his appearance anyway, on a programme aimed at humiliating the BNP (which it didn't) instead of hearing the views and opinions of panel members on topical issues.

Anyway, opinion polls now show that over 80% of British people believe immigration has gone too far. It is only now that people are realising that if anything is to be done about it, more extreme parties will be those who create the pressure and the prolonged exposure needed to see things through. This is why parties such as UKIP and the BNP are on the rise.

I thought he was thoroughly humiliated. Are you a fan of Griffin?