Galway CC vote to remove other roundabouts!

skelliser

Galway City Councillors have voted for the proposed works at the Morris (N6/R863) and Font (N6/N17) Roundabouts to proceed.

Words fail!!:mad::mad::mad::mad:

all i can say is repeat what Councillor Nuala Nolan who voted no tweeted

More roundabouts to be taken out in Galway, a winter of discontent lies ahead.

GalwayGaillimh

Off with there heads! I love the Morris roundabout!
That roundabout seemed to actually work pretty well. Who voted in these people?

FlashD

What a waste of money!....and the traffic chaos that will ensue.

What are we replacing these roundabouts with that is so much better?

Fozzie Bear

FlashD wrote: »

What are we replacing these roundabouts with that is so much better?

Traffic light controlled junctions. I mean just look at the massive success they made of the junction at the Huntsman when they done the same thing:mad:. (After a couple of tries at it of course) :rolleyes:

A winter of discontent? More like a decade of it.....

lucianot

All I ask is that they do it properly, i.e. in time, under budget, well planned so all road users are satisfied, pedestrian, cyclist and motorist. Is it so difficult?

redsteveireland

lucianot wrote: »

All I ask is that they do it properly, i.e. in time, under budget, well planned so all road users are satisfied, pedestrian, cyclist and motorist. Is it so difficult?

Do you live in Ireland?:D

Hurler85

I cant believe Galway CC are actually going through with these plans. The works at Moni were a disaster and caused traffic chaos while it was under construction. My biggest worry is that these works will still be some way off completion once the ocean race comes next year, which will result in major traffic disruption during the highlight of next summer.

Surely people should protest this! What an absolute disgrace.

GekkePrutser

I know it's not a popular opinion but I'm glad the Morris roundabout is going. When I leave work it is impossible to get out because there is a constant stream of cars going past it, and the high speed and poor visibility on oncoming traffic it makes it very unsafe.

I know it's pretty safe if you're just continuing on from the N6 but from the nearby industrial estate it's a nightmare. I also had a few very close calls crossing on foot.

By the way, lights can be done properly. Where I'm from every junction (and every major roundabout) has traffic lights and the flow is just fine.

Edit: I do have to say though, In my view the outer bypass is absolutely needed and the roundabouts would be fine if all that through traffic would be gone. I was reading in the paper that funds have been secured so I'd wish they put their efforts to using them. I don't think the N6 will ever work well for the amount of traffic it needs to handle.

apoeiguq3094y

What is with the anti-change camp around here. Traffic is chronic in galway, and for once the council are doing something to change it. I remember spending an hour getting from eyre square to the bons hospital on friday evenings. It was painful, at least now it moves somewhat.

All the people who are outraged are the ones who were on the one route through the roundabouts that were flowing. Meanwhile the rest of us didn't have a prayer of getting through those roundabouts.

You have all these councillors and business people opposed to it because they have some magical skill of traffic prediction. Roundabouts don't work if unless all the entrances have an even amount of traffic.

FlashD

I have just been listening to the Ray D'Arcy show and the cuts that have been made to special needs children in the last few years and here in Galway they're firing money at changing roundabouts.

What an absolute outrage! What a disgrace!

Do these councillors have any principles or morales?

This money could be going to better uses. People should know this.

When's the next election? They deserve to go.

lucianot

I think the roundabouts have to go, but not in the way it happened to Moneenageisha.
Also that money probably comes from Galway own taxes, nothign to do with special needs children funds.

dloob

FlashD wrote: »

I have just been listening to the Ray D'Arcy show and the cuts that have been made to special needs children in the last few years and here in Galway they're firing money at changing roundabouts.

What an absolute outrage! What a disgrace!

Do these councillors have any principles or morales?

This money could be going to better uses. People should know this.

When's the next election? They deserve to go.

I don't think the councillors are responsible for funding special needs children.

McTigs

FlashD wrote: »

I have just been listening to the Ray D'Arcy show What a disgrace!

What a disgrace is right!

As far as i can see, galway motorists are consumate moaners.... moan about the traffic, moan when any effort to rectify it is put forward, moan that they will be put out while those efforts are being made, moan that nobody wants to listen to their moaning.

The moaning that went on in the ironman thread is typical of this.

The roundabouts in this city do not work for everyone, not all motorists, not all cyclists, not all pedestrians. Doing nothing isn't an option. Moneenagisha took a while to work but teething problems are normal and it seems to flow pretty well and fairly for all approachs now. No doubt the new junctions won't be perfect in their first week either. But we can't always be so terrified of change or terrified of the inconvenience while those changes are being implimented.

leonidas83

McTigs wrote: »

What a disgrace is right!

As far as i can see, galway motorists are consumate moaners.... moan about the traffic, moan when any effort to rectify it is put forward, moan that they will be put out while those efforts are being made, moan that nobody wants to listen to their moaning.

The moaning that went on in the ironman thread is typical of this.

The roundabouts in this city do not work for everyone, not all motorists, not all cyclists, not all pedestrians. Doing nothing isn't an option. Moneenagisha took a while to work but teething problems are normal and it seems to flow pretty well and fairly for all approachs now. No doubt the new junctions won't be perfect in their first week either. But we can't always be so terrified of change or terrified of the inconvenience while those changes are being implimented.

With all due respect but you dont know what your talking about, Moneengisha does not flow pretty well, it barely flows at all and is a disgrace most mornings between 8-10 am. The only good thing about those lights was that it made it safer for pedestrians but I would like to know the footfall because I hardly ever see anyone down there.

Galway people are no worse than anywhere else for moaning, its just we have to put up with so much incompetence from the councils here. The traffic you refer over the last few weeks was a disgrace because there was 3 different roadworks being carried out at the same time in the same area. Before this we had the jokes that were the eyre square redevelopment fiasco and then the water crisis. I know there has been many more that I cant even remember now.

All these redevelopments of roundabouts are not needed and have already proven not to work, this is at a time when money needs to be spent wisely and on people instead of bloody traffic lights.

snubbleste

I posted some Council statistics on the amount of pedestrians, cyclists and motorists using Moinín junction..you could do a search.

But anyway, well done to the Council members for voting to remove the roundabouts and go ahead with the N6 corridor upgrade in town.

ciotog

leonidas83 wrote: »

With all due respect but you dont know what your talking about, Moneengisha does not flow pretty well, it barely flows at all and is a disgrace most mornings between 8-10 am. The only good thing about those lights was that it made it safer for pedestrians but I would like to know the footfall because I hardly ever see anyone down there.

Which direction do you come from to that junction? I'm usually there around 8:30 to 9, coming from the Dublin Road and turning left onto College Road and never spend that long waiting. Am I luckier than others because of the left filter?

leonidas83

ciotog wrote: »

Which direction do you come from to that junction? I'm usually there around 8:30 to 9, coming from the Dublin Road and turning left onto College Road and never spend that long waiting. Am I luckier than others because of the left filter?

I come from the opposite direction, college road straight on up the Monivea road

leonidas83

snubbleste wrote: »

I posted some Council statistics on the amount of pedestrians, cyclists and motorists using Moinín junction..you could do a search.

But anyway, well done to the Council members for voting to remove the roundabouts and go ahead with the N6 corridor upgrade in town.

Council statistics, I wouldnt trust them or believe them to be accurate in the first place

Robbo

I'm cautiously behind the replacements of the roundabouts with "smart" junctions namely because for better or worse, the Moneen junction is meant to be part of a larger system. When that system is there, it will get better. If it doesn't, hey, we have a Keynesians dream in perpertually digging up the roundabouts, putting in lights, digging out the lights, putting in a roundabout.

And also massively benefit "The Most Vulnerable in Society" ™ who for the purposes of this post shall be the sick, the elderly, people in wheelchairs and those massive wheeled Paris-Dakar style prams beloved of the white middle classes.

As a complete aside, the junction at Moneen would be better if 3 very Irish driving habits were eliminated:
1. Being shocked to bejaysus that the lights actually change to green, then struggling to find first gear (because it isn't where you left it), battling with the handbrake you ratcheted within an inch of it's life and then take the whole thing out on your clutch.
2. "Backing up" traffic behind you when you do get moving by touching the brakes 3 times whilst cornering, creating a concertina effect.
3. Assuming you have a 40 foot trailer on the back of your Corolla by the line you take through the junction. Bonus style points are awarded for a Scandanavian Flick style feint on the way in.

dloob

What does this mean for Johnny and Jimmys reputation as the big influences in the city? :pac:

Pure Sound

I've lived in Galway all my life and I'm ashamed to say that I am really starting to despise the cynicism of Galway people, everything on the Galway City Forum these days seems to be "Poor Me" **** everyone else as long as I'm happy

It's pretty obvious that traffic lights work if synchronised properly, the system is used everywhere else in the world bar ourselves and the UK, it's a system that does not endanger the lives of pedestrians and cyclists as much, roundabouts are a nightmare when cycling, hopefully now the council will push on and provide better public transport too

snubbleste

leonidas83 wrote: »

Council statistics, I wouldnt trust them or believe them to be accurate in the first place

Whyever not? You started a thread this morning based on Council statistics.

leonidas83

snubbleste wrote: »

Whyever not? You started a thread this morning based on Council statistics.

A social housing list and statistics on traffic and footfall are two completely different things. A social housing list requires feck all accumulation and interpretation of data whereas the other requires a large degree on monitoring and analysis but you would know that already since you seem to be such an expert on all council related matters.

snubbleste

leonidas83 wrote: »

A social housing list and statistics on traffic and footfall are two completely different things. A social housing list requires feck all accumulation and interpretation of data whereas the other requires a large degree on monitoring and analysis but you would know that already since you seem to be such an expert on all council related matters.

This is my post from May and the Council's presentation showing various modes of transport the Council are obliged to provide for.

PennyLane88

McTigs wrote: »

What a disgrace is right!

As far as i can see, galway motorists are consumate moaners.... moan about the traffic, moan when any effort to rectify it is put forward, moan that they will be put out while those efforts are being made, moan that nobody wants to listen to their moaning.

The moaning that went on in the ironman thread is typical of this.

The roundabouts in this city do not work for everyone, not all motorists, not all cyclists, not all pedestrians. Doing nothing isn't an option. Moneenagisha took a while to work but teething problems are normal and it seems to flow pretty well and fairly for all approachs now. No doubt the new junctions won't be perfect in their first week either. But we can't always be so terrified of change or terrified of the inconvenience while those changes are being implimented.

We moan about the traffic because it is chronic in Galway city, sitting in a line of traffic for ages when there's no need if the council actually did their job and managed roadworks better, and stop thinking traffic lights are the answer. More roads need to be put in not more f**king traffic lights.

And the moneen traffic lights are a bit of a disaster too, depending on the direction you're coming from.

And look at the location for the entrance for the briarhill shopping centre, im surprised there hasnt been a serious accident there yet. Again, poor, poor planning.

Headford road roundabout is a disaster, mainly due to those poxy traffic lights. And the fact alot of people who use it cannot get the concept of a roundabout.

coconut5

I love how they are starting these roadworks in winter, when weather is at its worst, and there are loads of people on the road.

antoobrien

I was told a couple of things about the plans for the lights over the weekend, I'd like to know if anyone else has heard the same things and if it's true (sources if possible).

1) It's just the Tuam Rd, Ballybane & Briahill roundabouts that will be done before the ocean race next year. Cemetery Cross & Headford road will be left until after the VOR.

2) The synchronisation of the lights won't happen until all the roundabouts have been converted to traffic light controlled junctions.

yeehaw

coconut5 wrote: »

I love how they are starting these roadworks in winter, when weather is at its worst, and there are loads of people on the road.

Have a think about that one. I can imagine you posting this at any time of year. 'Why are they starting this in summer when all the tourists are here?'

Take your moaning elsewhere moaner.

emptybladder

antoobrien wrote: »

I was told a couple of things about the plans for the lights over the weekend, I'd like to know if anyone else has heard the same things and if it's true (sources if possible).

1) It's just the Tuam Rd, Ballybane & Briahill roundabouts that will be done before the ocean race next year. Cemetery Cross & Headford road will be left until after the VOR.

2) The synchronisation of the lights won't happen until all the roundabouts have been converted to traffic light controlled junctions.

1) There are 6 roundabouts in the scheme: Briarhill (starting next week); Tuam Road and Ballybane (starting by end of year) and then Headford Road, Terryland and Corrib Park (starting after January sales).

2) Correct. The Urban Traffic Management Centre will be up and running by Easter, when the six roundabouts will be completed.

It's also planned to remove further roundabouts, but not as part of the N6 scheme.

(No link, read it in the paper)

ciotog

antoobrien wrote: »

2) The synchronisation of the lights won't happen until all the roundabouts have been converted to traffic light controlled junctions.

I don't know about this one, the traffic management centre is due to go live in the December (acceptance testing) to February ('go live' proper) period which gives them the capability of discrete control on traffic lights. This was mentioned in one of the papers I believe. So, I would expect they wouldn't have to wait for all roundabouts to achieve what you're asking for (I'm making assumptions about what you mean on synchronisation and being a bit vague in case I'm wrong ).

snubbleste

The City Manager was on the wireless this morning and stated that the contract for the traffic management centre is going out in the next few days and would be up and running by year end, january at the latest.

Yeah, so basically what ciotóg said.

coconut5

yeehaw wrote: »

Have a think about that one. I can imagine you posting this at any time of year. 'Why are they starting this in summer when all the tourists are here?'

Take your moaning elsewhere moaner.

Why should I? Just an observation. After Christmas would make more sense to me. Just my opinion.

Predalien

leonidas83 wrote: »

Council statistics, I wouldnt trust them or believe them to be accurate in the first place

They use private companies to gather the information on traffic volumes so I'd figure they're accurate enough, don't see why they would have any reason to use false statistics.

Mrs OBumble

PennyLane88 wrote: »

... More roads need to be put in not more f**king traffic lights.
... Headford road roundabout is a disaster, mainly due to those poxy traffic lights. And the fact alot of people who use it cannot get the concept of a roundabout.

So you acknowledge that there are a lot of drivers who cannot "get" RABs - but you want them to stay anyway???

I don't have a link (anyone else???) but am sure I've read that Ireland has the greatest proportion of its land mass devoted to roading of any country in Europe. We don't need more roads: we need better-managed ones, and better demand management of traffic flows.

And re Moneen: I travel thru it every day between 8:10 and 8:45am - never a problem. Travel back most days between 5:30 and 6, far far less problems than there were back in 2007, when the RAB was still there.

PennyLane88

JustMary wrote: »

So you acknowledge that there are a lot of drivers who cannot "get" RABs - but you want them to stay anyway???

I don't have a link (anyone else???) but am sure I've read that Ireland has the greatest proportion of its land mass devoted to roading of any country in Europe. We don't need more roads: we need better-managed ones, and better demand management of traffic flows.

And re Moneen: I travel thru it every day between 8:10 and 8:45am - never a problem. Travel back most days between 5:30 and 6, far far less problems than there were back in 2007, when the RAB was still there.

To put traffic lights on such a ridiculous roundabout, just aggravates the situation. And i never said i was against getting rid of roundabouts, however, the city council doesnt seem to be able to 'plan' and 'develop' roads at all.

I wouldnt mind if putting in a pile of traffic lights would solve the problem, but i know it wont. Drivers will get frustrated and start running red lights, especially during traffic jams. Its already happening on the headford road roundabout, whereby people just get annoyed when not allowed to drive on when there is space for them, causing near misses. And it happens alot at moneen too.

We might have the greatest proportion of land mass devoted to roads than any country in Europe, but it doesnt apply to Galway IMO.

FlashD

Why did they build roundabouts in the first place if they are all wrong?

Will they be changing the traffic lights in 15 years because those are all wrong too.

As I recall there were traffic lights in many places before the roundabouts.

They haven't a clue what they are doing. Let's be honest, this lot couldn't plan their way out of a paper bag.

Take a drive out to many of the suburbun towns and you will see all the houses and industrial estates just standing there empty.

....the council are a waste of our taxes, they get paid too much and they get too many entitlements. They have made a mess of the city and the county.

How would anyone trust this lot to make any decent decision, they are driven by greed.

Regards.

antoobrien

emptybladder wrote: »

(No link, read it in the paper)

Cheers, as a matter of interest which one?

antoobrien

FlashD wrote: »

As I recall there were traffic lights in many places before the roundabouts.

IIRC Many of the roundabouts replaced non signaled crossroads. I don't remember lights at GMIT, the Moneen, Cemetary Cross or Corrib Park, Bishop O'Donnell Rd (to access the Western Distributor) and mini roundabout at the Threadneedle road - but I was rarely over that side of town.

The Headford Rd roundabout (at Meno Park) was built to accomodate BNT, as were the roundabouts at Tuam Rd (JJ Flemmings), Ballybane, Briahill & Doughiska Roundabouts. Coolough was added to link in with the motorway.

The magic roundabout I couldn't be sure about, it's a roundabout so long.

johnnyk66

PennyLane88 wrote: »

....... Drivers will get frustrated and start running red lights, especially during traffic jams. Its already happening on the headford road roundabout, whereby people just get annoyed when not allowed to drive on when there is space for them, causing near misses......

Cant be much space for them if they're causing near misses.:eek:

Robbo

JustMary wrote: »

So you acknowledge that there are a lot of drivers who cannot "get" RABs - but you want them to stay anyway???

I don't have a link (anyone else???) but am sure I've read that Ireland has the greatest proportion of its land mass devoted to roading of any country in Europe. We don't need more roads: we need better-managed ones, and better demand management of traffic flows.

And re Moneen: I travel thru it every day between 8:10 and 8:45am - never a problem. Travel back most days between 5:30 and 6, far far less problems than there were back in 2007, when the RAB was still there.

I had a long winded post about the proportion of roads but the TL:DR version of it is, we're a nation of peasant smallholders and the number of boreens traversing the country wildly skews the total amount of roads in this country. Ironically, Davitt is the one-armed bandit in all this.

antoobrien

yeehaw wrote: »

Have a think about that one. I can imagine you posting this at any time of year. 'Why are they starting this in summer when all the tourists are here?'

In fairness the best time for roadworks is in the summer for several reasons, not least of which is the fact that there are longer days to do the work (meaning in theory that it should take less time). There are also technical issues, such as how the prevailing environmental factors affect the setting of new road dressings - frosts, heavy rain etc cause damage to the road under repair that show up later in the form of potholes, cracks etc.

If the tourist traffic etc is the issue, then we're back to the issue over the past few weeks of traffic management during these projects.

IMO the only time that road works should not be even considered in a normal year in Galway is race week & December. After that take into special events & the environmental factors.

Next year we'll have the ocean race back, so it'll be a bad idea to have road works planned within 2 months of that as they normally end up running very late in this country. Take a look at the work on the Athlone Dual Carriageway, the contra flows were supposed to be gone 3 weeks ago, they were still there on Sunday and look like taking a few weeks yet to finish off the work on the DC itself before moving to the junctions.

EyeSight

johnnyk66 wrote: »

Cant be much space for them if they're causing near misses.:eek:

most of the drivers on that roundabout drive very dangerously. its rare that i see people following the lines, which is very dangerous for a roundabout such as this one. also when drivers see they're in the wrong lane, they decide the best thing to do is speed across lanes in front of others. i'm shocked there's not an accident there every day

antoobrien

EyeSight wrote: »

most of the drivers on that roundabout drive very dangerously. its rare that i see people following the lines, which is very dangerous for a roundabout such as this one. also when drivers see they're in the wrong lane, they decide the best thing to do is speed across lanes in front of others. i'm shocked there's not an accident there every day

Sounds like a job for the traffic corps and a reason to change the licensing system. Lifetime licensing is a bit of a joke - my father got his license over 30 years ago - motoring has changed a lot since then.

Mrs OBumble

FlashD wrote: »

Why did they build roundabouts in the first place if they are all wrong?

Will they be changing the traffic lights in 15 years because those are all wrong too.

As I recall there were traffic lights in many places before the roundabouts.

RABs are fine, for medium volumes of equally-balanced traffic. They're not so fine once traffic gets heavier, or flows are not equal.

Also, traffic light technology has come on a lot in the last 15 years, including (mounts hobby-horse ) the ability to prioritise public transport.

PennyLane88

johnnyk66 wrote: »

Cant be much space for them if they're causing near misses.:eek:

If they are running red lights, they are gonna cause near misses due to oncoming traffic from other lanes.

Happens alot on the headford road as the traffic lights dont seem to be synchronised properly, so the light goes red quickly, letting only one or two cars go during peak times. When there is space for more of these cars behind the red lights, the drivers are getting fed up and so decide to drive on, ignoring red lights. TBH its no wonder it happens, especially when traffic lights there are only letting two cars go at a time.

Iwannahurl

JustMary wrote: »

RABs are fine, for medium volumes of equally-balanced traffic. They're not so fine once traffic gets heavier, or flows are not equal.

Also, traffic light technology has come on a lot in the last 15 years, including (mounts hobby-horse ) the ability to prioritise public transport.

Is there room on your hobby-horse for two?

I've been told to get off my high horse so often, y'see.

Galway's roundabouts were first installed to prioritise free flow of motorised traffic, with all other road users supposed to make do with the leftovers.

Community groups warned that it was a mistake to have so many roundabouts, or at the very least to design them in such a way as to marginalise other modes of travel. Such voices were ignored, naturally, since moving as many cars as possible as quickly as possible was the primary goal. However, once traffic reached saturation point on certain routes the consequences were inevitable.

Now the wheel has come full circle and it's the motorists who are complaining. The NRA is now emphasising traffic management and that's where the funding is going on the N6. About time too. Let's hope the new setup really is used to improve the level of service for bus users, cyclists and pedestrians. They deserve it.

antoobrien

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/43937/city-remains-divided-over-plans-to-scrap-roundabouts

Much of the criticism rests on motorists’ experience of the Moneenageisha junction. However Mr O’Neill said problems there will be addressed as part of the overall N6 works.

What's this - the city council hinting that the moneen lights are not as successful at routing traffic as some people on here would have us believe? (pity there isn't a smiley for incredulous).

Well I never, it couldn't be true:rolleyes:

Or is it just a cynical attempt at deflection from an organisation that described the replacements of the roundabout as a

“leap of faith” not a “leap in the dark”

Are the city council officials trying to undermine any remaining confidence the people have with them, or do they just expect us not to notice/care?

Taking a leap of faith implies (to me) that you don't know how things are going to go and you're praying that you're right and everything will work out, a leap in the dark means you're just stumbling about in the dark hoping to find an answer. Pretty much on tune for GCC - hear no evil see no evil, fingers on the same hand down know what the other one is doing and can't tell its a*se from its elbow.

Iwannahurl

antoobrien wrote: »

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/43937/city-remains-divided-over-plans-to-scrap-roundabouts

What's this - the city council hinting that the moneen lights are not as successful at routing traffic as some people on here would have us believe? (pity there isn't a smiley for incredulous).

Well I never, it couldn't be true:rolleyes:

Or is it just a cynical attempt at deflection from an organisation that described the replacements of the roundabout as a

Are the city council officials trying to undermine any remaining confidence the people have with them, or do they just expect us not to notice/care?

Taking a leap of faith implies (to me) that you don't know how things are going to go and you're praying that you're right and everything will work out, a leap in the dark means you're just stumbling about in the dark hoping to find an answer. Pretty much on tune for GCC - hear no evil see no evil, fingers on the same hand down know what the other one is doing and can't tell its a*se from its elbow.

Not necessarily.

Firstly, the leap of faith reference may be a request for trust, optimism and a bit of vision, as opposed to the suspicion, cynicism and short-term vested interest that tends to dominate.

Just speculating there, TBH, but the fact is that this initiative stems from the NRA, it's a national route, the objective is better traffic management, and there are funds available.

One set of "intelligent" traffic lights was never going to be a panacea. IMO Moneenageisha junction is better for pedestrians, cyclists and traffic flow on average (ie across all arms, not just those with traffic streams that used to dominate when the junction was a roundabout).

The GTU behaves towards everyone in the same way. Pedestrians, cyclists and probably bus users know all about it. Now it seem we're entering a new era. Say goodbye to the roundabouts you love -- their days are numbered.





EDIT: the reference to the decision not being a "leap in the dark" is a comment on the fact that the proposals are evidence-based, IMO.

what_traffic

antoobrien wrote: »

http://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/43937/city-remains-divided-over-plans-to-scrap-roundabouts

What's this - the city council hinting that the moneen lights are not as successful at routing traffic as some people on here would have us believe? (pity there isn't a smiley for incredulous).

Well I never, it couldn't be true:rolleyes:

This is not new News. Officials admitted the same at public meeting last June for Briarhill (Lynch Roundabout). What City Manager is "hinting" at: College Rd/Lough Atalia lights and Moneen lights are not linked up.

schween

I clearly live in a different Galway to some others here. I pass through Moneen every morning at around 8.30AM with a wait of maybe a few minutes.

If one more person writes..."What an outrage!" or "What a disgrace!" I might have a fit of laughter! Stop being so outraged, it's not healthy, like traffic!

I am glad the RABs are being dumped, hate them! One thing people seem to forget is the Traffic Management Centre. I think a human actually changing lights as needed would help hugely! It's really inefficient when you have large volumes of traffic being held up by relatively small amounts coming from other RAB entrances.

But, I observe with caution, this is the same council that seems to make a circus of everything!