who is the worlds best outside centre ?

handsomecake

who in the boards opinion is the worlds best outside centre?

pajunior

Conrad Smith, maybe the only player in the world capable of putting SBW on the bench.

Amazotheamazing

Conrad Smith by some distance

ANXIOUS

Sonny Bill Williams

He will be player of the world cup if new zealand get to the final. His off loading ability is un real.

wixfjord

1: Shontayne Hape
2: Matt Banahan



I think the answer you're looking for Handcomecake is
"[Insert SANZAR 13 here] and not Brian O Driscoll"

Shane10

BOD all the way, hes got everything. attack and one of the best defenders around. Magic.

handsomecake

wixfjord wrote: »

1: Shontayne Hape
2: Matt Banahan



I think the answer you're looking for Handcomecake is
"[Insert SANZAR 13 here] and not Brian O Driscoll"

no genuinely interested to see the opinions.

endabob1

Conrad Smith but I would still have BOD in my squad, maybe it's the green tinted glasses but there's no one apart from Smith who I would say is clearly better, SBW included

handsomecake

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Sonny Bill Williams

He will be player of the world cup if new zealand get to the final. His off loading ability is un real.

dont think he counts really. he is an inside centre. he played 2 games for canterbury in the itm cup at 13 but thats it.

steve9859

Shane10 wrote: »

BOD all the way, hes got everything. attack and one of the best defenders around. Magic.

He HAD everything, and was number 1 in the past. No longer. I presume the OP's questions relates to now, not the past

Stev_o

Smith has been woeful this season for the Canes. Hell he barely played at all. He isn't the same player he was a year ago.

endabob1

handsomecake wrote: »

dont think he counts really. he is an inside centre. he played 2 games for canterbury in the itm cup at 13 but thats it.

He's played a couple of tests there too, might not start there but he's certainly played there

Brian2850

Rougerie deserves a mention

GerM

handsomecake wrote: »

no genuinely interested to see the opinions.

Fourie is the best 13 currently. I don't think many people who have watched him in the past year would argue otherwise.

Your need to validate your posts though is odd. In response to your query elsewhere, I never said anything about a game in 2006. So, no, Smith wasn't on the pitch at that point even though I never brought up that game so I don't know why you addressed the query to me. Smith and BOD were on the pitch together on two other occasions when BOD scored.

But what does it all mean, HC?? Well, it means that BOD scored twice when Smith was on the pitch. Nothing else. Smith scoring with BOD on the pitch means nothing else either. There's a lot more to a player than a single play. To try and quantify a player's ability on the basis of single incidents is pointless.

handsomecake

Stev_o wrote: »

Smith has been woeful this season for the Canes. Hell he barely played at all. He isn't the same player he was a year ago.

he broke his cheekbone/ eysocket (im not sure ) and missed a few games.

not one hurricane played well all year.serious trouble in the camp.

weepu,nonu,hore ,hosea gear , and possibly cruden have all left for other sides.

none of them got on with hammett

corey jane was selected purely on reputation

wixfjord

Probably Smith, though I don't think he's as good as he was.
Possibly SBW, just for the complete freak that he is.
AAC is good, but more of a utility back imo.
Fourie is good, but not the best.
BOD is the best defensive 13 in the world, but has slowed and is certainly not near Smith or SBW in terms of attack.

Not a huge amount of great ones out there to chose from imo.

I do like Jon Davies, and think he could be very good, though he's more of a 12.
Special mention to Regan King, will be very interesting to see how he gets on at Clermont.

Don't rate Rougerie at 13, Poitrenaud is pretty good there, but not his best position imo.

handsomecake

GerM wrote: »

Fourie is the best 13 currently. I don't think many people who have watched him in the past year would argue otherwise.

Your need to validate your posts though is odd. In response to your query elsewhere, I never said anything about a game in 2006. So, no, Smith wasn't on the pitch at that point even though I never brought up that game so I don't know why you addressed the query to me. Smith and BOD were on the pitch together on two other occasions when BOD scored.

But what does it all mean, HC?? Well, it means that BOD scored twice when Smith was on the pitch. Nothing else. Smith scoring with BOD on the pitch means nothing else either. There's a lot more to a player than a single play. To try and quantify a player's ability on the basis of single incidents is pointless.

good shout. fourie has been a handful for the stormers and a rock in defence.im not validating. i was told by a mod to cease and desist in the other thread.and another poster rory 123 sp? suggested i start this thread.

but im genuinely interested to see the opinions especially on a .ie website where "god" plays for the national team.

on other fora such as planet rugby they love to engage in paddy bashing so maybe a more honest reflection will be represented here

handsomecake

wixfjord wrote: »

Probably Smith, though I don't think he's as good as he was.
Possibly SBW, just for the complete freak that he is.
AAC is good, but more of a utility back imo.
Fourie is good, but not the best.
BOD is the best defensive 13 in the world, but has slowed and is certainly not near Smith or SBW in terms of attack.

Not a huge amount of great ones out there to chose from imo.

I do like Jon Davies, and think he could be very good, though he's more of a 12.
Special mention to Regan King, will be very interesting to see how he gets on at Clermont.

Don't rate Rougerie at 13, Poitrenaud is pretty good there, but not his best position imo.

jon davies didnt take a backward step all year. he is a beast.


i actually rate smith as the best defender in the world. i would video his tackling technique to show kids. he is a textbook bootlaces tackler. i dont know how he does it as he doesnt appear to be fast or strong.

handsomecake

pajunior wrote: »

Conrad Smith, maybe the only player in the world capable of putting SBW on the bench.

isnt it nonu keeping SBW on the bench?

endabob1

Fourie's a good shout but honestly I think BOD creates more than Jacques does, defensively he's a rock, but that was a feature of the stormers season, interestingly the 3 centres picked for the Bok squad are all Stormers
That said I seen Faingaa give them a torrid time in Newlands this season

GerM

Stev_o wrote: »

Smith has been woeful this season for the Canes. Hell he barely played at all. He isn't the same player he was a year ago.

I wouldn't say he was woeful but his form was way off where it has been in the past. As HC says, he was part of a misfiring Hurricanes side. Definitely not the best 13 in the world this year though.

danthefan

Smith is now imo. He's a very intelligent player.

BOD was for about 7 or 8 years though. I think this is accepted all over the rugby world. He's just got the few extra years and miles on the clock now.

Surprised people are saying SBW, he's been playing 12 more than 13 and he's done nothing really to earn the title of best in the world.

ANXIOUS

handsomecake wrote: »

dont think he counts really. he is an inside centre. he played 2 games for canterbury in the itm cup at 13 but thats it.

He has started for new zealand at out side centre.

Leslie91

If you're talking about present day it ain't BOD no more.

I didn't see the Tri-Nations but I would imagine it is between Conrad Smith and Jacques Fourie for best 13 out there. Sonny Bill looks more like a 12 to me with the ball skills and moves of a 13.

GerM

endabob1 wrote: »

Fourie's a good shout but honestly I think BOD creates more than Jacques does, defensively he's a rock, but that was a feature of the stormers season

He's a very physical defender but he's excellent going forward too. He was one of the top try scorers in the S15 this season. His power gives him the ability to make yards in traffic and he has excellent pace also. His try scoring record for the Boks is superb.

pajunior

handsomecake wrote: »

isnt it nonu keeping SBW on the bench?

I suppose technically it is, but I believe Graham Henrys thoughts are that Smith and SBW can't play together (or at least wouldn't be magical) so it is either SBW with Nonu outside him or Nonu with Smith outside.

Of course an injury to Nonu and that all changes, would probably still be the best midfield partnership in the world.

pickarooney

Might as well give Nonu one vote.

endabob1

GerM wrote: »

He's a very physical defender but he's excellent going forward too. He was one of the top try scorers in the S15 this season. His power gives him the ability to make yards in traffic and he has excellent pace also. His try scoring record for the Boks is superb.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Super_Rugby_season#Leading_try_scorers

Admitedly he top scored for the Stormers but joint 7th with 13 others doesn't mean he was one of the top try scorers in the competition

He's a smashing defender though & as a part-time Stormers fan, I'm genuinely surprised he got that many, I'm amazed anyone managed that many in a Stormers shirt this season because they were super defensive

danthefan

pajunior wrote: »

I suppose technically it is, but I believe Graham Henrys thoughts are that Smith and SBW can't play together (or at least wouldn't be magical) so it is either SBW with Nonu outside him or Nonu with Smith outside.

Of course an injury to Nonu and that all changes, would probably still be the best midfield partnership in the world.

There's nothing technical about it. Nonu is preferred to SBW. If you ever read PR the vast majority of NZ fans supporting all NZ teams support this.

Ardillaun

GerM wrote: »

He's a very physical defender but he's excellent going forward too. He was one of the top try scorers in the S15 this season. His power gives him the ability to make yards in traffic and he has excellent pace also. His try scoring record for the Boks is superb.

I would have put Fourie very close to the top. In general, South African players are underrated in such discussions but, given their team's WC performance, they deserve more attention. He has tremendous pace and uses his size so well. Didn't get much of a chance on the weekend apart from in the buildup to the first try.

geotrig

Ma'Nonu by far is the best inside/outside around ! sbw is 2nd ish still to prove the hype but the last day was a step in the right direction.

I have to say i've been impressed with rougerie in centre as well !

pajunior

danthefan wrote: »

There's nothing technical about it. Nonu is preferred to SBW. If you ever read PR the vast majority of NZ fans supporting all NZ teams support this.

Well no it is a technicality because if anyone is going to be dropped for SBW it will be smith not Nonu.

In fact that isn't telling the whole truth because Henry isn't choosing between players he is choosing between combinations. SBW/Nonu or Nonu/Smith.

Nonu is playing either way, it is up to SBW or Smith to get themselves picked, therefore whoever does get picked is keeping the other on the bench.

Cpt_Blackbeard

I think that Smith is recognised as the best 13 but, I do think that Fourie deserves a mention. Nonu was very good there against Tonga too imo. He was much better at 13 than I thought he would be - His ability to straighten the defensive line and then release the winger/fullback outside him was much more potent at 13 than 12.

muscleshirt

thinking mans 13...smith

twinytwo

Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »

I think that Smith is recognised as the best 13 but, I do think that Fourie deserves a mention. Nonu was very good there against Tonga too imo. He was much better at 13 than I thought he would be - His ability to straighten the defensive line and then release the winger/fullback outside him was much more potent at 13 than 12.

But it is so easy to look awesome in the AB team. I mean how often do they have to play with average players.

Fight_Night

Conrad Smith no question, arguably better than BOD when they are both in their prime.

GerM

twinytwo wrote: »

But it is so easy to look awesome in the AB team. I mean how often do they have to play with average players.

Which is a very good point. Smith has been a fantastic player for me. His decision making and ability to do the simple, correct thing with unerring repetition is unmatched. But, this season, when the Canes weren't firing, he struggled too. He missed a chunk of the season but so did some of their other players who came back and scored some tries. Smith went scoreless for the season. He failed to spark when playing for his club and not just in terms of try scoring. With NZ, he had a very pedestrian Tri-Nations by his standards. I'm not sure he broke the line once. He got a try against Australia in the final game but that was made by Carter leaving him with an easy task. I wouldn't rule out the SBW and Nonu combination being tried again in a bigger game.

Utopia Parkway

Fight_Night wrote: »

Conrad Smith no question, arguably better than BOD when they are both in their prime.

He's nowhere near as good as BOD was in his prime IMO. Not that that makes him bad because he's still a top class player but BOD will go down as one of the greatest centres ever. A fact even recognised outside Ireland for the most part. Smith will go down as an excellent centre for New Zealand and undoubtably world class on his day but I don't see his name cropping up in the future when people are discussing the greatest centres in the history of the game. Then again if he has a superb World Cup and New Zealand go on to lift the trophy then who knows he might elevate himself into that realm.

vinny chase

I think when O'Driscoll was at his best, there was no one to touch him. He has all the obvious talents, though some of them have obviously diminished with age. His defensive abilities are just incredible, and his vision and thinking on the pitch always set him apart. But for me, there was always something intangible about him as well, that is almost impossible to quantify. The heart & determination sets him apart from guys who perhaps are faster and stronger. He's scored so many crucial tries down the years to typify this. He should have been World Player of the Year in '09, and fully deserved the Rugby World Player of the Decade Award.

He is, for me, not having gotten the opportunity to see Jack Kyle play, the greatest ever Irish player.

But today, I think Conrad Smith and Jacque Fourie are easily the best two 13's in world rugby. Fourie is so strong and direct, and has a fantastic try scoring record.

Conrad Smith though is one of my favourite players in world rugby; so smart, rarely makes a mistake. Outstanding hands, fantastic defense, exactly the sort of player you'd love to play with.

handsomecake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IdlG1jtkH0

snake for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFfmBrSAu5o

ball in two hands. super stuff

in fairness to both o driscoll and smith they punch above their weight big time.they are not big blokes and the defending they do is incredible.

i have read and been told that the best centre ever was danny gerber but he was well before my time and i dont like comparing pre and post professionalism anyway.

CatFromHue

:mad::mad::mad: murphy at 34 seconds in the first clip :mad::mad::mad:
:mad: kearney at 2.44 :mad:

trackguy

handsomecake wrote: »

in fairness to both o driscoll and smith they punch above their weight big time.they are not big blokes and the defending they do is incredible.

Absolutely right. Both have excelled for their whole careers, playing in very different teams. It's actually hard to compare them because Ireland and New Zealand are...well, chalk and cheese, in some respects.

Would Conrad Smith be the same player if he played fro Ireland? Would BOD be as good in the NZ team? Difficult questions to answer.

The two of them, along with Stirling Mortlock and Yannick Jauzion, are the best outside centres of their generation.

Smith is the best at the moment, albeit in a very good NZ side.

thomond2006

Jaque Fourie for me, he's an incredible player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwQR1jORn9M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1kpOlyt_58

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxWfbCCXm2U

I also think Juan de Jongh will be a top class player in a few years, at 12 or 13.

handsomecake

thomond2006 wrote: »

Jaque Fourie for me, he's an incredible player.



I also think Juan de Jongh will be a top class player in a few years, at 12 or 13.

de jong has some step ( and people were comparing him to gerber). fourie is definitely the form 13.he looks awkward when running. almost too upright but he is bloody hard to bring down

astonaidan

handsomecake wrote: »

isnt it nonu keeping SBW on the bench?

Incase You havent noticed people buy into the hype of a few flashy offloads or a good game then declare that player best in the world, Anyone remeber Danny Cipriani best outhalf in the world

Grid.

Conrad Smith.

Stev_o

astonaidan wrote: »

Incase You havent noticed people buy into the hype of a few flashy offloads or a good game then declare that player best in the world, Anyone remeber Danny Cipriani best outhalf in the world

Yes because being the key instrument in getting the Crusaders to S15 is very much a over rated quality. No one named Cipriani the best OH in the world. He was a extra ordinary talent who suffered a horrible injury and it all went down hill from there with pretty horrendous player management.

handsomecake

Stev_o wrote: »

Yes because being the key instrument in getting the Crusaders to S15 is very much a over rated quality. No one named Cipriani the best OH in the world. He was a extra ordinary talent who suffered a horrible injury and it all went down hill from there with pretty horrendous player management.

jeez yeah he went down hill. he dismantled ireland in twickers circa 2008 and i thought he would hold the ten shirt down for years. seems to have a bit of the hensons about him

handsomecake

trackguy wrote: »

Absolutely right. Both have excelled for their whole careers, playing in very different teams. It's actually hard to compare them because Ireland and New Zealand are...well, chalk and cheese, in some respects.

Would Conrad Smith be the same player if he played fro Ireland? Would BOD be as good in the NZ team? Difficult questions to answer.

The two of them, along with Stirling Mortlock and Yannick Jauzion, are the best outside centres of their generation.

Smith is the best at the moment, albeit in a very good NZ side.

without courting contraversy and just playing devils advocate- do o driscolls skills / performances get accentuated by the fact he has often had to do it himself ala parisse for italy? ireland were a one man band for a few years there.

handsomecake

pajunior wrote: »

Well no it is a technicality because if anyone is going to be dropped for SBW it will be smith not Nonu.

In fact that isn't telling the whole truth because Henry isn't choosing between players he is choosing between combinations. SBW/Nonu or Nonu/Smith.

Nonu is playing either way, it is up to SBW or Smith to get themselves picked, therefore whoever does get picked is keeping the other on the bench.

for the knockout games it will be smith and an other. nonu OR sonny bill. smith is the first choice 13 no question. injuries aside i bet any money smith is on the field for the big games

Almaviva

handsomecake wrote: »

i have read and been told that the best centre ever was danny gerber but i dont like comparing pre and post professionalism anyway.

Even more complicated case with Gerber due to the lack of enough serious international games against top opposition, and so for me there simply isnt enough evidence for him to be considered. South Africa over-hyped a lot of their players in those days, and the superiority mentality of apartheid had them believe that if someone was the best of in SA then he must be the best in the world. Having said all that, Gerber was undoubtedly very good - but case unproven as far as best in the world.