So called Saorview been sold at a Market sale

St Senan

So called Saorview systems been sold at a Market sale.

This is what RTE/ Saorview should be clamping down on. Guys like this are really going to destroy the TV business.

coylemj

Gullible penny-pinchers stupid enough to buy equipment from market stallholders are not going to 'destroy' the TV business.

Pataman

Where was that car boot sale, good value on the brackets.

norbert64

Are we concerned that they're selling dodgy equipment, or is it the Saorview moniker that's at issue here?

Are we complaining about that old chestnut of
saorview approved Vs saorview/dtt compatible?

St Senan

If the Big sign said Mpeg4 {xoro}receiver, Aerial and cable €75. I wouldn't have put up this picture. The picture was taken in Wexford town market last week by a local installer down there.

Kristopherus

Tell that local installer to go back to the trader and ask him to insert "Mpeg 4" instead of "Saorview". Its not like he's not entitled to sell the thing.

Tony

Kristopherus wrote: »

. Its not like he's not entitled to sell the thing.

Hes not entitled to sell it with that description, clearly in breach of the sale of goods act.

lucernarian

I'm still confused here. I'll ask this first; if he was bundling e.g. the walker saorview box with the aerial and bracket, would there be strong objections to his advertisement? I.e. because this installer was using the Saorview name for promotional purposes etc.

Antenna

Just curious, how much were they looking for that combi box?

also what price on the 'contract' aerials?

Johnboy1951

scaller wrote: »

So called Saorview systems been sold at a Market sale.

This is what RTE/ Saorview should be clamping down on. Guys like this are really going to destroy the TV business.

What did I miss?

I saw no indication that the STB of the kits being sold were not Saorview approved.

I also notice that a combi box is for sale to receive all free channels + RTE ..... no mention of Saorview there.

Which might indicate that the STB with the kit is Saorview approved .......

Tony

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

What did I miss?

I saw no indication that the STB of the kits being sold were not Saorview approved.

Hmm thought the price was a fairly big clue. If they were saorview approved he'd be pretty stupid not to highlight that.

Deep diver

12 months parts + labour guarantee inc I guess : :rolleyes:

tommyh1977

scaller wrote: »

So called Saorview systems been sold at a Market sale.

This is what RTE/ Saorview should be clamping down on. Guys like this are really going to destroy the TV business.

There is plenty other guys beside this guy out there destroying the TV business. Around my area in particular so called expert installers are two a penny but in reality when you look into their background they have previous experience in professions such as, Fencing, Cattle Branding, Apprentice Mechanic etc. None of these guys are operating with Liability Insurance, Test Equipment or most importantly technical knowledge. They work on the basis " point the aerial that general direction and the DTT signal is so strong you cant go wrong" Indeed the DTT signal is very strong off Mullaghanish, Maghera & Woodcock Hill but ask these guys to tell you the BER of the signal or the Carrier to Noise Ratio;);) To quote an old saying "tis like a goat looking at lightning" I am for years tidying up shoddy installs done by these guys with no quality materials or no method to the installation. Its a general misconception that TV installation is a general handy man job.

By the way this is coming from an ex bench technician with over 15 years repairing CRT, VCR, DVD & Hi-Fi to component level, now an installer!!

St Senan

The only STB's at the stall and in the picture are Argus picollo and Xoro Hrt 800 both are not Saorview approved and will not provide Digital interactive services. I dont see a Saorview Logo any where in the picture.

charlemont

If it works, I don't see any problem.

tommyh1977

charlemont wrote: »

If it works, I don't see any problem.

It will work but not to its full potential because to the best of my knowledge, and i am willing to stand corrected, those boxes do not have MHEG5 therefore not allowing access to Saorview Interactive and Auto Updating.

St Senan

tommyh1977 wrote: »

It will work but not to its full potential because to the best of my knowledge, and i am willing to stand corrected, those boxes do not have MHEG5 therefore not allowing access to Saorview Interactive and Auto Updating.

Correct.

Tony

charlemont wrote: »

If it works, I don't see any problem.

The problem is the buyer may not be aware of what exactly they are buying and cannot therefore make an informed choice. Another problem could arise if they have a problem with the box, will the trader be there to make things right?

coylemj

Tony wrote: »

if they have a problem with the box, will the trader be there to make things right?

Buying from a market stall what do you think people are expecting - a 24 hour help desk?

I really don't see why we should be worried about consumer protection for people who buy electrical equipment of any kind from a market stall.

Tony

coylemj wrote: »

Buying from a market stall what do you think people are expecting - a 24 hour help desk?

Great contribution, good deabting skills there.

No matter where people buy from they should be afforded the protection of consumer legislation and should be told exactly what they are buying

coylemj wrote: »

I really don't see why we should be worried about consumer protection for people who buy electrical equipment of any kind from a market stall.

So by your logic equipment not approved for sale in ireland can be sold as long as its a market stall ? what if its dangerous and/or of dubious origin ?

I guess a CE mark does not hold much sway with you

tfitzgerald

Ithink I know this bloke he is at the onyoke market every sunday I have bought a few bits and pieces off him like sky controllers and the sky magic eye. He is a sky installer and only does this as way of getting extra money and if it's the same bloke he knows his stuff and no I don't know him

St Senan

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Ithink I know this bloke he is at the onyoke market every sunday I have bought a few bits and pieces off him like sky controllers and the sky magic eye. He is a sky installer and only does this as way of getting extra money and if it's the same bloke he knows his stuff and no I don't know him

Have you seen anything at the stall in the Unyoke carpark market with a Saorview logo. http://www.saorview.ie/

coylemj

Tony wrote: »

Great contribution, good deabting skills there.

No matter where people buy from they should be afforded the protection of consumer legislation and should be told exactly what they are buying

So by your logic equipment not approved for sale in ireland can be sold as long as its a market stall ? what if its dangerous and/or of dubious origin ?

I guess a CE mark does not hold much sway with you

First you have an issue with the use of 'Saorview' to describe the equipment on sale, now you're concerned for the safety of the people who buy this stuff, then you're worried about whether it has the CE logo. Get down off your high horse.

I repeat what I said in my first post....

Gullible penny-pinchers stupid enough to buy equipment from market stallholders are not going to 'destroy' the TV business.

tfitzgerald

scaller wrote: »

Have you seen anything at the stall in the Unyoke carpark market with a Saorview logo. http://www.saorview.ie/

No. but to be honest I'm not from Wexford it's the wifes family that live there . I do go to the Market when I'm in wexford.But I haven't being there in a few weeks

Tony

Theres little point in responding to you if you are not mature enough to debate in a reasonable manner.

coylemj wrote: »

Get down off your high horse.

desaparecidos

What's the problem?

Technically what he is selling will pick up the broadcasts on Saorview. He doesn't use the official logo, he doesn't claim Saorview approved?

Tony

Thats a fair point since although RTE told us they would not allow the use of the word "Saorview", on their website they seem to refer only to misuse of the logo . As mentioned earlier though the boxes he is selling do not have MHEG 5 they cannot make use of all the services available now and in the future . As long as potential buyers are made aware of this theres no problem as they can make their own choice.

desaparecidos wrote: »

Technically what he is selling will pick up the broadcasts on Saorview. He doesn't use the official logo, he doesn't claim Saorview approved?

St Senan

Tony wrote: »

Thats a fair point since although RTE told us they would not allow the use of the word "Saorview", on their website they seem to refer only to misuse of the logo . As mentioned earlier though the boxes he is selling do not have MHEG 5 they cannot make use of all the services available now and in the future . As long as potential buyers are made aware of this theres no problem as they can make their own choice.

I agree with this Tony. The ordinary public wouldnt have a clue what they are buying from this market. PJ and Tommy is all that they see and hear about from saorview. So when they see this guy selling a kit for €75 with the name Saorview then of course they are going to buy it.

coylemj
Gullible penny-pinchers stupid enough to buy equipment from market stallholders are not going to 'destroy' the TV business

The Saorview Registered retailers, The wholesalers and the Local installers down in Wexford will disagree with you.

NewHillel

desaparecidos wrote: »

What's the problem?

Technically what he is selling will pick up the broadcasts on Saorview. He doesn't use the official logo, he doesn't claim Saorview approved?

There isn't any problem, assuming that the equipment being sold has the CE Mark. (If it doesn't, he should be reported to the National Consumer Agency (http://www.consumerconnect.ie/eng/Contact_Us))

NewHillel

scaller wrote: »

... Local installers down in Wexford will disagree with you.

Time to let it go, Scaller. Everybody knows by now that you don't like the competition. Well, unfortunately that is the way of the world. Ongoing rants do not help your position. If anything, they have the opposite effect. If someone wants to buy a satellite system from LIDL, ALDI, B&Q or a market, they are perfectly entitled to do so, and to install it themselves.

St Senan

NewHillel wrote: »

Time to let it go, Scaller. Everybody knows by now that you don't like the competition. Well, unfortunately that is the way of the world. Ongoing rants do not help your position. If anything, they have the opposite effect. If someone wants to buy a satellite system from LIDL, ALDI, B&Q or a market, they are perfectly entitled to do so, and to install it themselves.

I dont work in Wexford but i do know genunine installers down there that are losing work because of this.


NewHillel. why is it that nearly every thread here Like this one that you come onto and comment in is eventually Locked.

NewHillel

scaller wrote: »

NewHillel. why is it that nearly every thread here Like this one that you come onto and comment in is eventually Locked.

Because they contain misinformation, or otherwise breach the terms of the Boards.ie site??

St Senan

NewHillel wrote: »

Because they contain misinformation, or otherwise breach the terms of the Boards.ie site??

Or would it be that they eventually turn into a Tit for Tat.

Tony

NewHillel wrote: »

Everybody knows by now that you don't like the competition.

Theres no problem with competition per se ( I think its necessary for a healthy market) wheres theres a level playing field and everybody plays by the rules.

As long as this market guy informs people as to exactly what he is selling and pays his taxes then best of luck to him.

Johnboy1951

Tony wrote: »

Theres no problem with competition per se ( I think its necessary for a healthy market) wheres theres a level playing field and everybody plays by the rules.

As long as this market guy informs people as to exactly what he is selling and pays his taxes then best of luck to him.

Yes ...... and is there any indication that the seller was/is not doing this?

Tony

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Yes ...... and is there any indication that the seller was/is not doing this?

Please tell me your joking or read the thread again

Johnboy1951

Tony wrote: »

Please tell me your joking or read the thread again

Did I miss a post where someone dealt with the seller and reported how he informed them (or not)? .... maybe I did ....

Kristopherus

scaller wrote: »

I dont work in Wexford but i do know genunine installers down there that are losing work because of this.


NewHillel. why is it that nearly every thread here Like this one that you come onto and comment in is eventually Locked.

The same question could be asked another way of you Scaller. Why are you so paranoid about these so-called goings on ?

St Senan

Kristopherus wrote: »

Why are you so paranoid about these so-called goings on ?

I wouldn't say Paranoid, I am just passionate about the business.

icdg

Calm down guys, or bans will be handed out.

lawhec

At least with Freeview up here in the north, set-top boxes that were/are not Freeview compatible have been pretty few and far between. The only one that I remember being advertised was one by Lidl under its Silvercrest brand that looked to be a pan-European model which definitely didn't have MHEG nor had access to over-the-air software upgrading. It has meant at least that although the specs are not as tight as receivers for Sky or Virgin, there are at least some common standards that have to be met to be deemed worth of having the Freeview logo and the "Digital Tick". Unfortunately for Saorview, this isn't working out the same way for them due to (a) timing of launch, (b) speed & cost of certification, and (c) shysters trying to pass something off that it is not and some customers not educated enough to know the different, possibly ending up disappointed. A case for trading standards to get involved?

cast_iron

scaller wrote: »

I wouldn't say Paranoid, I am just passionate about the business.

And that's not a bad thing.

So are you saying that guy should not be selling the boxes, or aerials, or brackets? Or everything?

St Senan

He can sell as many Dishes, FTA receivers, Mpeg4 receivers, and Aerials as he wants.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74353915&postcount=5
He shouldn't be claiming the receivers are Saorview when they are not.
He is not a registered retailer in Wexford.

http://www.saorview.ie/products-retailers/find-a-retailer/?county=31&town=Wexford&btsumbit=Search#.

cast_iron

scaller wrote: »

He shouldn't be claiming the receivers are Saorview when they are not.

I see no evidence that he is doing that. In fairness, the label on the box is quite clear in having not a single "Saorview" word or description on it.
He could be quite truthful when the average market asks do it reveive Saorview" by saying yes. Who knows how he describes them to people when they ask.

He is not a registered retailer in Wexford.

That position is untenable. Philips don't authorise Tesco to sell their TV/DVD players etc - it's buyer beware in there and one should be all the more careful at a market if you ask me.

NewHillel

scaller wrote: »

He can sell as many Dishes, FTA receivers, Mpeg4 receivers, and Aerials as he wants.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=74353915&postcount=5
He shouldn't be claiming the receivers are Saorview when they are not.
He is not a registered retailer ...

He has not claimed, to our knowledge, that the receivers are 'Saorview Approved'. That would be misrepresentation, just as bad as Saorview or Freesat Logos on Installers vans.

A reasonable interpretation of his position is that the receivers will pick up Saorview. The concern here is that consumers might not be aware that it has some limitations. A valid concern? Yes. But still far less of an issue than retailers selling TV's that do not even have MPEG4.

To me it doesn't appear to be Trademark misuse, so no issue for Saorview.

Tony

On the contrary there is nothing untenable about that view . Phillips do not have a registered retailer scheme so that comparison holds no weight. RTE has a registered retailer scheme and they claim the right the authorise the use of the word saorview and the saorview logo.

cast_iron wrote: »

That position is untenable. Philips don't authorise Tesco to sell their TV/DVD players etc

Tony

NewHillel wrote: »

To me it doesn't appear to be Trademark misuse, so no issue for Saorview.

Sorry but thats nonsense plain and simple . Any use of the word Saorview for commercial purposes without permission is trademark misuse . This has been RTE's position since they invented the word at the outset.

rlogue

Saorview is a brand and a trademark. As RTE are the owners of the brand and it is a registered trademark they are perfectly entitled to control how it is used. Sony won't tolerate any old Joe putting up the words "Sony dealer" on their shop or van and nor should RTE.

STB

I think it comes down to the use of the word Saorview and/or logo.

If these boxes had been described as Boxes for Irish Digital TV reception then they would be okay. Its a Xoro TNT HD box for the French market so obviously it will have MHP middleware instead of MHEG5. They will at least pick up the stations..... but the buyer might have been mugged on the price, but that is unavoidable I suppose.

10000maniacs

scaller wrote: »

So called Saorview systems been sold at a Market sale.

This is what RTE/ Saorview should be clamping down on. Guys like this are really going to destroy the TV business.

The whole Saorview network should be sold down the market for a similar price.

Antenna

STB wrote: »

I think it comes down to the use of the word Saorview and/or logo.

If these boxes had been described as Boxes for Irish Digital TV reception then they would be okay. .

What if they had been described as a 'box that will receive Saorview TV channels' ? This to me would seem OK.