How far will Ireland go

Cork24

Just looking at the pools and knock out round

Ireland will need to win their,

Ok if Ireland comes first it should set up a game with the wales, France will come second in theirs with England topping theirs that will set up France vs England which I feel England should win which should set up a game Ireland vs England in the semi finals...


On the other hand I have a feeling that new Zealand will get beating by France and they will top their group and if Ireland comes second, they will meet south Africa and then meet France in a Semi final if they can beat south Africa.. Either way the only way we can get new Zealand is in the final... Do you think Ireland are good enough to get to the final ?

Don't get me wrong I fare we won't even make it out, with Ireland talks of fielding a weak team against OZ so we have the players rested for the match that will be do or die which is against italy, their not a push over like they once where, we were luckily to win against them in the six nations plus Russia have a good team they be well up for it to prove a point

Kiwi_knock

I think we will get as far as the Semi finals.

marco_polo

Seeing as Argentina aren't in our group then historically a valiant QF exit is the most likely outcome.

Getting out of the group even as Pool runners up you wouldn't exactly be quaking in our boots at the prospect of playing South africa in their current state (All based on the presumption we would have played reasonably well to get to that stage). But putting back on the reality goggles for a minute, finishing above Italy is far from a given at the moment.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Heart says all the way. Head says QF exit to South Africa.

ArmaniJeanss

Comfortable bonus point victories over USA&Russia, run Australia agonisingly close in Game3 and beaten by a couple of points by Italy in Game4.
Group stage exit.

tolosenc

Group stage exit on the cards, I reckon. Stumbling start in a few hours, thumped by Oz, comfortable enough agains Russia and then just bettered by Italy.

circos

just posted this elsewhere but its apt... WE ARE GOING ALL THE WAY!!!!! (got to have optimism!)

Columbia

Realistically to progress to the semi-finals we would need to beat either Australia in the group or SA in the quarters. The team is always capable of throwing in a special once-off performance, but most likely I see us losing to SA in the last 8.

MungBean

If we beat Australia we will make the final, if not then we get knocked out in semi's after scalping the Boks in the quarters.

This isnt the six nations or warm ups its the world cup. Players are are too good and too experienced to let this turn to crap. Drico, Pauli and ROG etc wont let their last WC turn into a farce. They know whats needed, have a great team of young and extremely skilful players around them and they wont be rolling over for anyone or letting what happened last time happen again.

tolosenc

Short of a player lead mutiny à la France in the 2006 FIFA World Cup, I can't see us getting to the semis.

stockyboie

Players are are too good and too experienced to let this turn to crap. Drico, Pauli and ROG etc wont let their last WC turn into a farce

So what you expect O'Driscoll and co to suddenly start a player revolt in the dressing room and then magicially adopt their own style of play on the pitch in effect giving the management team the finger? Not going to happen.

The players don't have the confidence or the will to do that. The team is a broken one as evidenced by the last 2 years performances and even our opening match against the usa. The time for revolt should have been after the last 6 nations and well before the world cup when they should have gotten rid of kidney. Only a saving performance against england kept him in the job and this was down to the players own efforts rather then kidneys management style. This world cup is going to be a shambles for ireland possibly even worse then the last one.

As for my predictions. Unfortunately Ireland won't get very far. They won't make it to the semis and on current form they certainly won't beat australia. Kidney to go at the end of the tournament.

Big Nelly

Moan Moan Moan on this forum

FINAL's all the way

And by the looks of the youth coming through at Leinster let it long may continue!!!!!!!!!

stockyboie

Big Nelly wrote: »

Moan Moan Moan on this forum

FINAL's all the way

And by the looks of the youth coming through at Leinster let it long may continue!!!!!!!!!

I think that if you don't point out when somethings wrong in order to remedy it then long may it continue indeed.

Paddysnapper

IMHO Not very far unless there is an enormous change in the tactics being employed. The game against the USA was dreadful! Italy will blast them of the pitch. Australia game will be a massacre!:mad:

Kirby

Semi-Final

cgpg5

Would honestly do well to get outta group.. But realistically I reckon lose to SA in quarters.

Reloc8

We can expect South Africa in the QF and if we win that P. De Villiers should be given an Irish passport because he will have picked John Smit at scrum-half.

Ste_D

On the current run of form we have a massive game against Italy just to get out of the group. If we do that SA will beat us in the quarters.

MungBean

stockyboie wrote: »

So what you expect O'Driscoll and co to suddenly start a player revolt in the dressing room and then magicially adopt their own style of play on the pitch in effect giving the management team the finger? Not going to happen.

The players don't have the confidence or the will to do that. The team is a broken one as evidenced by the last 2 years performances and even our opening match against the usa. The time for revolt should have been after the last 6 nations and well before the world cup when they should have gotten rid of kidney. Only a saving performance against england kept him in the job and this was down to the players own efforts rather then kidneys management style. This world cup is going to be a shambles for ireland possibly even worse then the last one.

As for my predictions. Unfortunately Ireland won't get very far. They won't make it to the semis and on current form they certainly won't beat australia. Kidney to go at the end of the tournament.

Coaches can only do so much the bulk of the performance comes down to the players. When a game is under way its the players responsibility to read the game and adapt to it. If the players have no control then there would be no need for leaders, for players to make decisions.

I never mentioned a mutiny. Drico, POL, ROG and other senior players are in control when on the pitch, they decide when to kick for points and when to go down the line. They decide what plays to do off set pieces. If the overall plan is obviously flawed they will change it. If the plan is to run they wont run for 80 minutes if its getting them nowhere. They will adapt and kick for territory or certain players will try something different to break the lines. I dont know anything about how the coaches operate but I'd imagine you dont ignore players when the express concerns about stuff.

Drico is the greatest rugby player to ever come out of this country and captain in his last world cup. He has plenty of influence and plenty of will to push for what he thinks the team should be doing. And when players like Drico, ROG and POL stand up and say something coaches listen.

danthefan

Skunkle wrote: »

Coaches can only do so much the bulk of the performance comes down to the players. When a game is under way its the players responsibility to read the game and adapt to it. If the players have no control then there would be no need for leaders, for players to make decisions.

Giovanni Trapatoni said in the past that a good coach can increase the performance of a group of players by maybe 5%, but a bad coach can make performances 25-30% worse. I know he's in a different sport but he's a highly experienced, well decorated coach of a team sport.

Rachiee

on current ofrm and having missed out on the bonus point against USA... still cant believe it :mad: theres a chance we wont even get out of the group. I reckon we'll lose to australia hopefully win all our other games and get a bonus against russia, come out second of the pool and get knocked out at the quarter finals against spring boks who look to be on form. wreckon it'll be australia/new zealand final which should be a cracker

MungBean

danthefan wrote: »

Giovanni Trapatoni said in the past that a good coach can increase the performance of a group of players by maybe 5%, but a bad coach can make performances 25-30% worse. I know he's in a different sport but he's a highly experienced, well decorated coach of a team sport.

They wernt exactly gathering a mountain of tropheys before Kidney took over though. They are pretty much the same as when Eddie was in charge. Even when the depth of players increased under Kidney the performance still didnt come bar in fits and starts.

Coaches do deserve a fair whack of the blame but the players themselves are also responsible. They are also capable of changing things.

Zikan

no farther than quarters unfortunaly

endabob1

Getting out of the group is the objective anything else is a bonus, personally I think Italy will beat us, we have no imagination nothing to break down decent defensive lines, as shown in the warm up games and again today

Ste_D

Rachiee wrote: »

on current ofrm and having missed out on the bonus point against USA... still cant believe it :mad: theres a chance we wont even get out of the group. I reckon we'll lose to australia hopefully win all our other games and get a bonus against russia, come out second of the pool and get knocked out at the quarter finals against spring boks who look to be on form. wreckon it'll be australia/new zealand final which should be a cracker

Did you see them this morning? Theyre anything but on form. Still think they'll be too good for us sadly.

desertcircus

Skunkle wrote: »

They wernt exactly gathering a mountain of tropheys before Kidney took over though. They are pretty much the same as when Eddie was in charge. Even when the depth of players increased under Kidney the performance still didnt come bar in fits and starts.

Coaches do deserve a fair whack of the blame but the players themselves are also responsible. They are also capable of changing things.

What's driving me crazy is that these players are gathering a mountain of trophies. Most of the team have two Heineken Cup medals around their necks; Geordan Murphy has a fistful of Premiership medals. Their provincial performances are far beyond what's being reproduced for the Irish team. On the basis of the US performance this morning, I'd expect at least three of the provinces to beat the absolute hell out of them. That team had four professionals, and we had that many Heineken Cups between our two out-halves. In other circumstances, that group of players would have utterly destroyed the American team - the fact that they didn't means we have to take a hard look at the management team.

We may still get to the quarter-finals, but it's a sign of the poverty of our ambition that a team made up mainly of the reigning Heineken Cup champions and the reigning Magners League champions, with another fistful of players who made the knockouts of both competitions, is seriously worried about being knocked out by a team supplied by Treviso and Aironi that hasn't beaten Ireland in fourteen years. How can that be an even slightly realistic worry with an even halfway decent management team? We're better than the Italians in almost every single position from one to fifteen, but we're genuinely not sure whether we'll get past them.

desaparecidos

I think we'll lose out to Australia by a few scores, but with an improved performance compared to this morning and the build up games.

We'll carry this improved performance into the remaining group games, take care of SA in the quarters with style and push on from there.

nacho libre

I'm tempted to not watch the game next week, but of course i will. I honestly fear this Australia team could do to us what they did to France six or seven months ago. Then again the optimistic side of me says, some of the senior players knowing this is their last shot at the big time, so maybe, just maybe, we can pull off a big performance despite all evidence to the contrary.

MungBean

desertcircus wrote: »

We may still get to the quarter-finals, but it's a sign of the poverty of our ambition that a team made up mainly of the reigning Heineken Cup champions and the reigning Magners League champions, with another fistful of players who made the knockouts of both competitions, is seriously worried about being knocked out by a team supplied by Treviso and Aironi that hasn't beaten Ireland in fourteen years. How can that be an even slightly realistic worry with an even halfway decent management team? We're better than the Italians in almost every single position from one to fifteen, but we're genuinely not sure whether we'll get past them.

Your worried, I'm not. I have every confidence in Ireland beating Italy. Just as I had every confidence in them beating USA today. I knew USA would put it up and I'm disappointed that Ireland didnt do a demolition job on them seeing as they are basically a team of amateurs.

But. It wasnt just a team of amateurs, that Clever was everywhere. No matter who went forward he seemed to be in front throwing in thundering tackles. A handful of good players can turn a crap team into an average team and a pumped up average team as shown by every other underdog in the competition so far can cause problems. I dont buy this "USA are the worst team that ever existed and the Irish team should be shot so as not to embarrass us any further" George Hook nonsense. They have some quality players.

They couldnt compete in set pieces and the only thing they could do was tackle. So thats what they did and did it for 80 minutes, they tackled. Unlike the other minnow teams they were incapable of scoring so never looked a threat, they were more of a nuisance than anything else. I'm not saying it was a good performance by Ireland but I dont think its the end of the world that a pumped up team who tackled hard for 80 minutes held us to three tries and sneaked an intercept in the last minute.

Dont see the point in whinging and moaning and predicting doom of epic proportions. I'd rather just take the positives, hope for the best and try and enjoy the rest of the tournament. If its a failure then I'll moan about it afterwards and call for Kidneys head or somethin but for the moment I wanna try enjoy it. Ireland didnt lose, theres a huge match next week and I dont wanna sit down to watch it thinking "whats the point, we are gonna lose cos we're shíte".

ShamoBuc

We will probably get to the qf's but that will be as a result of the poor quality of rugby elsewhere rather than our 'brilliance'.

Derfil

Hammered by Australia and well beaten by the Italians. Will struggle badly to beat Russia. As George says this team wouldn't unpick a safe with the key.

Jawgap

Depends on next week.

If we beat the Aussies - semi-final

If we don't - quarter finals.

I think we'll lose to Australia, but get the bonus point.

The final pool game against Italy will not be for the fainthearted.......

scriba

Hmm, a South African side without Victor Matfield mightn't be the most insurmountable obstacle come the quarter finals (assuming we drag ourselves there somehow).

Piliger

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Comfortable bonus point victories over USA&Russia, run Australia agonisingly close in Game3 and beaten by a couple of points by Italy in Game4.
Group stage exit.

That is how I see it too. All talk and handbags.

bazza1

Lose to Aussies and beat russians. Close thing with Italians. One off match with Boks and who knows?

Cork24

it was a poor game today..

But as BOD has said thing will have to get better..

Within a Week i feel we are asking to much of this Irish Team,, Just like 2007 After a close Six Nations..

that we lost by a few points. And the whole Irish Nation jump on the Rugby train and shouting out were going to win only to end up a laughing Stock of a Team

jacothelad

Skunkle wrote: »

They wernt exactly gathering a mountain of tropheys before Kidney took over though. They are pretty much the same as when Eddie was in charge. Even when the depth of players increased under Kidney the performance still didnt come bar in fits and starts.

Coaches do deserve a fair whack of the blame but the players themselves are also responsible. They are also capable of changing things.

Sorry, some of this is simply wrong. Under Eddie Ireland at one time had won more games than anyone else in the 6 Nations and regularly beat Australia and South Africa, never lost to Scotland except for a 'B' side warm-up and I think only lost once to Wales and perhaps twice to England. We also had a side that played fantastic running rugby. Under Kidney we've lost 12 of our last 17 games including at home to England, twice to Scotland including at home (horrific - if that didn't give anyone a clue as to what lay ahead.....) and away to Wales. If Munster under Kidney had lost 12 of 17 games he would have got the boot. There is no style to the type of rugby he has got the team playing. He is simply one of those men who is promoted wildly beyond his ability. He got lucky with Munster who had a fantastic collection of players led by some of Ireland's best ever forwards. He is out of his depth.

jacothelad

Cork24 wrote: »

it was a poor game today..

But as BOD has said thing will have to get better..

Within a Week i feel we are asking to much of this Irish Team,, Just like 2007 After a close Six Nations..

that we lost by a few points. And the whole Irish Nation jump on the Rugby train and shouting out were going to win only to end up a laughing Stock of a Team

Que?

MungBean

jacothelad wrote: »

Sorry, some of this is simply wrong. Under Eddie Ireland at one time had won more games than anyone else in the 6 Nations and regularly beat Australia and South Africa, never lost to Scotland except for a 'B' side warm-up and I think only lost once to Wales and perhaps twice to England. We also had a side that played fantastic running rugby. Under Kidney we've lost 12 of our last 17 games including at home to England, twice to Scotland including at home (horrific - if that didn't give anyone a clue as to what lay ahead.....) and away to Wales. If Munster under Kidney had lost 12 of 17 games he would have got the boot. There is no style to the type of rugby he has got the team playing. He is simply one of those men who is promoted wildly beyond his ability. He got lucky with Munster who had a fantastic collection of players led by some of Ireland's best ever forwards. He is out of his depth.

Sorry yeah I phrased that badly. They did quite well during those years but in relation to the point I quoted I dont think the standard has dropped the 25/30% due to bad coaching. Kidney did quite well initially and carried on what Eddie had built. I have only noticed the change in direction regards the running game in the last year and it seems to me that the reason for that is because of the unbelievable amount of handling and discipline errors which are more the fault of individuals than the coaches.

pat_mas

Ireland to come 2nd of their group (close win against Italy) then'd I give them good chances to beat SA if they can move the ball a bit quicker than now and if they don't kick the ball away. That's the least a player like BOD deserves !!!


--> Ireland will make it to the semi to meet a very (too) strong France

RoryMc23

jacothelad wrote: »

Sorry, some of this is simply wrong. Under Eddie Ireland at one time had won more games than anyone else in the 6 Nations and regularly beat Australia and South Africa, never lost to Scotland except for a 'B' side warm-up and I think only lost once to Wales and perhaps twice to England. We also had a side that played fantastic running rugby. Under Kidney we've lost 12 of our last 17 games including at home to England, twice to Scotland including at home (horrific - if that didn't give anyone a clue as to what lay ahead.....) and away to Wales. If Munster under Kidney had lost 12 of 17 games he would have got the boot. There is no style to the type of rugby he has got the team playing. He is simply one of those men who is promoted wildly beyond his ability. He got lucky with Munster who had a fantastic collection of players led by some of Ireland's best ever forwards. He is out of his depth.

Like him or loathe him, Ireland played their best rugby under EOS. The pre RWC 2007 Irish team would destroy the current team and the 2009 GS winning team as well.

Anyone remember that wet and windy night in 2006 in Landsdowne Road against South Africa? We actually played like New Zealand at the top of their game that night, it was beautiful.

Podge_irl

RoryMc23 wrote: »

Anyone remember that wet and windy night in 2006 in Landsdowne Road against South Africa? We actually played like New Zealand at the top of their game that night, it was beautiful.

That was against Australia

RoryMc23

Podge_irl wrote: »

That was against Australia

It was South Africa, SA wore copies of their 100 year old test jersey and Trimble was incredible that night. They also beat Australia during that same series though.

Podge_irl

The wet and windy night was Aus. It wasn't raining when we beat SA.

T-Maxx

Exit QF against SA

RoryMc23

Podge_irl wrote: »

The wet and windy night was Aus. It wasn't raining when we beat SA.

I apologise you're right, I got the conditions mixed up.

Anyone remember this Ireland?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjd7IHPpRyY

or how about this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShifZ47ROjk

Its depressing how much we've regressed...

Judgement Day

It was a wet and windy night when Munster Paul Warwick beat Australia 15-6 at Thomond Park in November 2010 - it seems a hundred years ago now.

Piliger

RoryMc23 wrote: »

It's depressing how much we've regressed...

Indeed it is. Months together, practicing, strategising, planning, practising ... and it all led to today's performance ? Headless chickens, dropping balls, making dumb choices, looking like total strangers.

Something is wrong in this team. Either it's a major mental issue with Irish players, or Kidney is doing something seriously wrong.

Jawgap

Have we regressed are we just being our usual inconsistent selves?

I think the handling and kicking errors seen in the US game have something to do with the ball - I've no real evidence to back that up other than it seems to be affecting more than just Ireland.

We're at our lowest ranking in a very long time, that suggests we've regressed, but our game stats are a bit more ambigusous:-

• We conceded the fewest number of tries in the 6N in 2011 and were second only to England in the number scored.
  
• We scored the lowest number of penalty goals and consequently had the lowest % of points from kicks
  
• Most of our tries originated in the 22m to goal line area of the opposition - none came from our own half - 40% of the French tries and 30% of English tries originated from their own half. In 2010 30% of our tries came from our own half and 80% originated outside the opposition 22.
  
• 10% of our tries came from returning opposition kicks and 10% from turnover ball - compared to 30% and 30% for France
  
• We had the highest rate of retention at the breakdown in 2011 (98%).

macman2010

RoryMc23 wrote: »

I apologise you're right, I got the conditions mixed up.

Anyone remember this Ireland?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjd7IHPpRyY

or how about this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShifZ47ROjk

Its depressing how much we've regressed...

That was a great performance however if im not mistaken that was very much a second string SA team.

Trevor Kent

Piliger wrote: »

Indeed it is. Months together, practicing, strategising, planning, practising ... and it all led to today's performance ? Headless chickens, dropping balls, making dumb choices, looking like total strangers.

Something is wrong in this team. Either it's a major mental issue with Irish players, or Kidney is doing something seriously wrong.

There's something not quite sitting right with me though. Throughout the 6N, up until the England game, we were poor, giving away penalties, small individual errors, Sexton didnt have a great 6N by his own standards. But the performance I saw against the English from the Irish is actually wrecking my head. If we had lost against our friends across the water in that match, what has happened before and since would make sense. But we were able to put together this wonderful performance against a good team and look 100% better than we had in the previous matches. Was this by luck or design? Can we do it again if required. Im I talking total sh1t? Wouldnt be the first time.