Communion Hippocrites?

brendanb586

I have the unfortunate situation of having a daughter in "communion" year in a Catholic run school. As an atheist family, I think she should not partake in any religious crap run in the schools as it would involve lots of lying; but my wife, who is more pacific, wants our daughter to do the mini-bride thing, so after asking our daughter (who when asked in school if they were making communions said she didn't know, but wanted to get a dress & party and hadn't a clue about anything else), we decided to say we wanted her to participate but we keep truthful and not pretend we were lapse (catholic).

While I would have prefered if society took the religion out of education, and let all the kids (there are muslim, prodestant and buddhists in her year with extra crayons for their segregation coloring times) take part in a dress up coming of age ceremony like in germany, I don't think this discrimination will end in my lifetime.

This meant that my wife had to meet the communion liaison priest (known creepily by the kids in the school as "Fr.Pervy", I thought controls were in place, but apparently not). When we ran through our dilemma (we are atheist, only ever go into a church for weddings and funerals, no intention of bringing the unbaptised child up catholic), rather than say "no" and no way your daughter would be allowed, he said he'd ring "someone". After that he got back to us saying she could if we do a fake baptism and she could make her communion.

I am hoping that they would just allow her to do the communion ceremony and ex-communicate her afterwards, or whatever they do to "undo the magic", but they seem to want these late-stage baptisms to be allowed, even if it is blatantly obvious that nothing will come of it...

Has anyone else experienced this, and what did they do to allow their kids to take part in the "religious" school activities, without compromising their lack of belief? And are the church really desperate for kids to be seen to make communions - they do know it doesn't count

Robert ninja

Sounds like Fr. Pervy is arranging a last minute baptism so your kid can do the next ritual... wtf, man.

Dades

That is utterly ridiculous.

The priest knows the whole thing is just a charade to let your girl have a day out and says if you baptise her she can do it?

For the love of Odin, brendanb586, do not baptise your child just for ONE DAY OUT.
The church does not remove people from their books any more and as far as they are concerned she will be catholic FOREVER.

MagicMarker

Forget about communion, bring her to McDonalds instead.

tallaghtmick

Throw a cup of water at her and say to the priest "bitch is baptised mother f*cker".

ignore all the religion stuff - they will keep her on the books as a catholic forever if you do this, by the way, thereby helping to ensure future generations have to go through this - and get her a big fancy dress and bring her somewhere nice. If she wants a dress and party, you don't need to go through all this hoohaa for it and she'll be just as happy

Daftendirekt

Don't go through with it.

It's one thing to give your kid a sham baptism to get her into school, it's a whole other thing to give her a sham baptism just so she can have a sham communion as well.

From your post, it even sounds like she isn't too bothered about it herself.

zico10

brendanb586 wrote: »

I have the unfortunate situation of having a daughter in "communion" year in a Catholic run school. As an atheist family, I think she should not partake in any religious crap run in the schools as it would involve lots of lying; but my wife, who is more pacific, wants our daughter to do the mini-bride thing, so after asking our daughter (who when asked in school if they were making communions said she didn't know, but wanted to get a dress & party and hadn't a clue about anything else), we decided to say we wanted her to participate but we keep truthful and not pretend we were lapse (catholic).

While I would have prefered if society took the religion out of education, and let all the kids (there are muslim, prodestant and buddhists in her year with extra crayons for their segregation coloring times) take part in a dress up coming of age ceremony like in germany, I don't think this discrimination will end in my lifetime.

This meant that my wife had to meet the communion liaison priest (known creepily by the kids in the school as "Fr.Pervy", I thought controls were in place, but apparently not). When we ran through our dilemma (we are atheist, only ever go into a church for weddings and funerals, no intention of bringing the unbaptised child up catholic), rather than say "no" and no way your daughter would be allowed, he said he'd ring "someone". After that he got back to us saying she could if we do a fake baptism and she could make her communion.

I am hoping that they would just allow her to do the communion ceremony and ex-communicate her afterwards, or whatever they do to "undo the magic", but they seem to want these late-stage baptisms to be allowed, even if it is blatantly obvious that nothing will come of it...

Has anyone else experienced this, and what did they do to allow their kids to take part in the "religious" school activities, without compromising their lack of belief? And are the church really desperate for kids to be seen to make communions - they do know it doesn't count

Who are the hypocrites here? You? Your wife? The local priest? The school? The Catholic Church? Your daughter? Everybody? Or only some of you?

keithm1

I hear you pal I'm not big on religion either but my young lad was christened and will be making his communion for no other reason than to dress up for a big day with his class mates , I don't know what you should do ,but I wouldn't force any belief on our kids atheist or religious they can make there own minds up in due course ,but for now they can go with the flow and do what the other kids are doing ,

brendanb586

The hypocrites in question were the church (for allowing known atheists to participate in sacrements that are supposed to be important to catholics - if anyone of any belief can join in it surely lessens the religious value), and the question mark was for me (for attempting to use the only group ceremony in primary schools to be treated as equivilant of a Jugendweihe).

It would be easier for to take the day off, and do something else - I proposed Disney in Paris as a day of "inspiration" - but that would be either spiteful to the other kids, and show the school/church that we will just abstain when pressed; Is it not better take part in the festival, proudly say that you are not catholic but this is her class, and her friends and we will not be excluded?

number10a

brendanb586 wrote: »

It would be easier for to take the day off, and do something else - I proposed Disney in Paris as a day of "inspiration" - but that would be either spiteful to the other kids, and show the school/church that we will just abstain when pressed; Is it not better take part in the festival, proudly say that you are not catholic but this is her class, and her friends and we will not be excluded?

Why should you feel awkward for abstaining from the annual hypocrites' day out?? I'm guessing that the Protestant, Muslim and Buddhist parents won't feel weird about it. Take her to Disneyland/the zoo/cinema/Smyths/wherever makes her happy. But you shouldn't feel like you need to sign her up to Catholicism for the rest of her days just for the sake of conforming.

As well as Baptism, the child will also have to have done her First Confession too which IMHO is one of the more disgusting things about the whole charade. Whatever about getting the kids to eat a little bit of bread, making them feel bad and scared of eternal damnation is just sick. If you do this, you're probably going to have to tag along for the Confirmation too. Harder to do one and then not the other one.

robindch

brendanb586 wrote: »

that would be either spiteful to the other kids

Wouldn't worry that much -- the church has organized things so that it controls events around the communion so that it can cause social problems for anybody who isn't there.

brendanb586 wrote: »

Is it not better take part in the festival, proudly say that you are not catholic but this is her class, and her friends and we will not be excluded?

Not a bad idea, though I'd go further and tell everybody what the priest told you.

At some point, people really should realize that this is a con-job -- it's not all that hard to spot.

kylith

Get her a pretty dress and throw her a party, she'll be just as happy, especially if you splash out for a bouncy castle too.

Is it really worth signing her up for something you don't believe, and that she doesn't believe, just for a day out? What will you tell her when she's older and asks why you signed her up for somthing you thought was rubbish?

zico10

brendanb586 wrote: »

I have the unfortunate situation of having a daughter in "communion" year in a Catholic run school. As an atheist family, I think she should not partake in any religious crap run in the schools as it would involve lots of lying; but my wife, who is more pacific, wants our daughter to do the mini-bride thing, so after asking our daughter (who when asked in school if they were making communions said she didn't know, but wanted to get a dress & party and hadn't a clue about anything else), we decided to say we wanted her to participate but we keep truthful and not pretend we were lapse (catholic).

Kettles, pots and black come to mind.

brendanb586 wrote: »

While I would have prefered if society took the religion out of education,

So would many others, but people posting anonymously on an Internet forum will only take things so far.

brendanb586 wrote: »

(there are muslim, prodestant and buddhists in her year with extra crayons for their segregation coloring times)

Apartheid would probably be a more neutral word.

brendanb586 wrote: »

I don't think this discrimination will end in my lifetime.

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I really don't think it's discrimination.

brendanb586 wrote: »

the communion liaison priest (known creepily by the kids in the school as "Fr.Pervy", I thought controls were in place, but apparently not).

That's incidental and I think the only reason you mention it, is so you can paint the Church in a negative light.

brendanb586 wrote: »

When we ran through our dilemma (we are atheist, only ever go into a church for weddings and funerals, no intention of bringing the unbaptised child up catholic), rather than say "no" and no way your daughter would be allowed, he said he'd ring "someone". After that he got back to us saying she could if we do a fake baptism and she could make her communion.

You might well be atheist, but I'm also guessing you're baptised Catholics as well. In the eyes of the Church, you're like the prodigal son, and if you profess your loyal and unwavering faith at your offspring's Baptism, along with a promise to raise the child as a Catholic, then.....
I'm not 100% sure what the Vatican's position on it is, but the only way the Baptism would be fake, would be if parents of a different religion were presenting the child for Baptism

brendanb586 wrote: »

I am hoping that they would just allow her to do the communion ceremony and ex-communicate her afterwards, or whatever they do to "undo the magic", but they seem to want these late-stage baptisms to be allowed, even if it is blatantly obvious that nothing will come of it...

And I'd be hoping atheistic parents wouldn't baptise their children in any faith.
There's no such thing as a late stage baptism. Jesus Christ himself wasn't baptised until he was 30 and I'm fairly in the days of the early church, the church would only baptise adults. Didn't Tony Blair convert to Catholicism? There's no rule that only babies should be baptised.

brendanb586 wrote: »

The hypocrites in question were the church (for allowing known atheists to participate in sacrements that are supposed to be important to catholics - if anyone of any belief can join in it surely lessens the religious value),

Not anyone of any faith can join in, only Roman Catholics, hence the requirement to baptise your child. You might think your family are known atheists, but by going through with the Baptism and Communion, you might understand why some people would think otherwise.

In lieu of your daughter, you will be asked the following questions at the Baptism;

Do you reject Satan?

And all his works?

And all his empty promises?

Do you believe in God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth?

Do you believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord, who was born of the Virgin Mary was crucified, died, and was buried, rose from the dead, and is now seated at the right hand of the Father?

Do you believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy Catholic church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting?

After you have answered 'I do' to all of the above, the priest will say
"God, the all-powerful Father of our Lord Jesus Christ has given us a new birth by water and the Holy Spirit, and forgiven all our sins. May he also keep us faithful to our Lord Jesus Christ for ever and ever." You will then proclaim "Amen.", an affirmation of all that has passed since you presented your daughter for Baptism.
You'll have to forgive me, but I see more than one hypocrite in this situation.
No doubt many other of the communicants' parents have similar misgivings, and you could say they're hypocritical too, but at least their not on an Internet forum telling people about it.

brendanb586 wrote: »

It would be easier for to take the day off, and do something else - I proposed Disney in Paris as a day of "inspiration" - but that would be either spiteful to the other kids,

I really don't see how this would be spiteful, kids go on holidays all the time. I don't think the other kids would worry too much about what someone else got up to on their Communion day.

brendanb586 wrote: »

and show the school/church that we will just abstain when pressed; Is it not better take part in the festival, proudly say that you are not catholic but this is her class, and her friends and we will not be excluded?

Abstaining from religious ceremonies is what atheists should be doing. I don't think the fact that everybody else is going along with it, should influence your decision.
Exclusion is a word with negative connotations and is not the word I would used. Are Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jehovah Witnesses, etc., etc. excluded? Their parents choose for them not to participate, this is very different from being excluded. Hypocrites or not, the Catholic Church is doing its best to include your child. You'll be the ones opting out.

Lanaier

Hang on a sec....are you somehow being forced to go through with the ceremony to further your child's education?

Sorry OP but unless I'm misreading you're the one coming off as a hypocrite.

cavedave

zico10

Quote:
Originally Posted by brendanb586
the communion liaison priest (known creepily by the kids in the school as "Fr.Pervy", I thought controls were in place, but apparently not).


That's incidental and I think the only reason you mention it, is so you can paint the Church in a negative light.

After all we have learned you think child protection issues are 'incidental'? :mad:

Lanaier

cavedave wrote: »

After all we have learned you think child protection issues are 'incidental'? :mad:

I'm sure "pervy" is a label that all good priests must endure these days, especially in schools.

EDIT:
And if the OP has any such suspicions about that priest, surely the communion would be the least of their concerns.

zico10

cavedave wrote: »

After all we have learned you think child protection issues are 'incidental'? :mad:

I know what incidental means. I don't need a link to it, thanks very much.

Even at the risk of angering you further I'll answer your question. Yes, in the context of this thread, which is a discussion on First Holy Communion, child protection (Even though my remark was referring to a parish priest who, I would hope without foundation, is nicknamed Fr. Pervy) is incidental. You should probably click on your own link and you'll understand why.

Lollipops23

oh for goodness sake, why go through all that total nonsense and confuse your child even further?? I know when I was 8 if I had been given the choice between Communion and Disneyland which one I'd take in heartbeat (tbh I'd pick Disneyland over most things in life....)

catch me if you can

It sounds like Father Pervy is being nice and trying to accomadate you and your little girl.
If you didnt want your child to go to a religious schoool why did you send her to one?
also its you being a hippocrite if you get her communed. not the church.
And its disgraceful that a good priest be subjected to such name calling. I hope your instilling in your daughter to have respect for people, priest and teacher alike.
The poor man obviously went out of his way to try and help you so your child could make her communion.

brendanb586

First off - I am aware I was being hypocritical for contemplating letting my child take part in a catholic ceremony during school time - as I would be if the local national school had Muslim, protestant or any other groups individual ceremonies.

This is similar to the compromises of other non-catholic families in the school, the Muslim children do not opt out of the morning prayer and religious instruction, (which can be organised by sending a note to the principal) by the same principle - it would be interesting to see how many non-catholics do not opt-out. This is a compromise to ensure that their children are not ostracised from the class for 2nd and 6th classes. We know the right situation would be to have education is schools (which is mandatory for everyone), and leave religion to churches (which is optional);

The Irish Muslim population manage this by having Sunday Schools in mosques, this should be the case for other religions as well; but until then a level of compromise should be made - and unless you have yourself have either been excluded from part of a school day, or understand the psyche of children, then you may not understand that a blanket "no to any school activity that involves the church" is not always the only option.

I wouldn't pander to the ridiculous argument of why non-catholic children in "catholic" national schools - see any census result.

cavedave

zico10

Even at the risk of angering you further I'll answer your question. Yes, in the context of this thread, which is a discussion on First Holy Communion, child protection (Even though my remark was referring to a parish priest who, I would hope without foundation, is nicknamed Fr. Pervy) is incidental.

In the context of First Holy Communion child protection does not have a major part?

John 11:35

mikemac

Biggest hippocrite on this thread is the OP

The priest is trying to accommodate your wishes.
They are not going to refuse to baptize your daughter, it's one more member
And as said above, you're like the prodigal son, you won't be turned away

If the priest refused would you be here complaining also?

brendanb586

mikemac wrote: »

Biggest hippocrite on this thread is the OP

The priest is trying to accommodate your wishes.
They are not going to refuse to baptize your daughter, it's one more member
And as said above, you're like the prodigal son, you won't be turned away

If the priest refused would you be here complaining also?

Not at all - I was expecting it to be a closed case that kids of atheists would be on baptism blacklist and that the parents not being catholic (and not baptised - so no prodigals here; where is this assumption that everyone with kids in Ireland was raised catholic?) would be a big flag in the decision.

Already said I was being a hypocrite in not shooting this down, but I never in my life said that taken part in any ceremony would be abhorrent to me - the church on the other hand spells this out, if there is no hope of being brought up as a catholic, then there must be no baptism:

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P2X.HTM

Is this priest or his boss not alone being hypocrites, but also going against their internal rules??

robindch

brendanb586 wrote: »

Is this priest or his boss not alone being hypocrites, but also going against their internal rules??

Can't remember who said it, but some guy produced the immortal line "If faced with heresy or schism(*), chose heresy!"

It could be that they're just desperate to keep up the appearances of numbers, or just desperate for cash...

(*) aka reduced numbers of believers in this context.

Animord

OP, I have been through this (well from the sidelines) - my friend's daughter who would be nominally CoI and is in the local RC school.

It was a complete can of worms - the child pestered and pestered to be allowed to make her first holy communion and no matter how much it was explained to her she really didn't understand and just wanted the mini wedding dress, the cake and the bouncy castle/money.

They compromised (they thought) and she was given a borrowed dress and allowed to go - the priest said he would bless her instead which was fine (and actually I thought very accommodating of him) but she was miserable - everyone else got a tacky new dress and loads of money. She still doesn't understand and indeed she tells anyone who will listen that when she is gown up she is going to marry a RC so that her children wont have to put up with such random acts of cruelty.

It was a nightmare...:rolleyes:

Dades

catch me if you can wrote: »

The poor man [priest] obviously went out of his way to try and help you so your child could make her communion.

He did not go out of his way at all.

He simply confirmed that church doesn't give a damn who or why people getting the sacraments are as they sign on the dotted line.

Galvasean

Sounds like the priest just wants another like on his Facebook page regardless of whether the people doing the liking have actually looked at the page.
It would appear that numbers are more important to the RCC than the sincerity of their members at this point in time.

OP, give your kid a nice day out. The other kids wont remember worth a damn in a week or two. They'll be too busy buying N64s with their communion money (or whatever the kids buy these days, crack-cocaine or something).

catch me if you can

He simply confirmed that church doesn't give a damn who or why people getting the sacraments are as they sign on the dotted line.

Obviously we can only summise why the priest accomadated this child.
It may be for numbers or it may be because he is a nice man . Not all priests are evil doers.

Lollipops23

Animord wrote: »

She still doesn't understand and indeed she tells anyone who will listen that when she is gown up she is going to marry a RC so that her children wont have to put up with such random acts of cruelty.

LOL!!!

Back on topic- I actually see the CC as something so toxic I wouldn't want my kids to have anything to do with them or any sort of exposure to them if I can help it. Now I know I'm being unrealistic and living in Ireland they'll wind up seeing aspects of it. But why, as an atheist, would you want your kid involved in any part of it? It's not enough to say it's because "all he little mates are doing it", that just doesn't make it ok in the slightest.

zico10

cavedave wrote: »

In the context of First Holy Communion child protection does not have a major part?

John 11:35

It does yes, but that's not what this thread is about either.

I'm not familiar with John 11:35. I could Google it, but I don't care. Unless used to highlight contradictions or hypocrisy in Christian teaching, Gospel passages shouldn't be referenced in an atheistic forum.

robindch

zico10 wrote: »

Unless used to highlight contradictions or hypocrisy in Christian teaching, Gospel passages shouldn't be referenced in an atheistic forum.

You'll usually find that most quotes from the NT are used hereabouts precisely to highlight contradictions and hypocrisy

zico10

I originally asked you;

zico10 wrote: »

Who are the hypocrites here? You? Your wife? The local priest? The school? The Catholic Church? Your daughter? Everybody? Or only some of you?

You replied

brendanb586 wrote: »

The hypocrites in question were the church

Several people then posted about another hypocrisy, before you posted

brendanb586 wrote: »

First off - I am aware I was being hypocritical

I'm sure you were aware of your own hypocrisy. It's glaringly obvious, but to start this post off with 'First Off' is slightly disingenuous.

brendanb586 wrote: »

I wouldn't pander to the ridiculous argument of why non-catholic children in "catholic" national schools - see any census result.

One thing I would agree with you on.

brendanb586 wrote: »

I was expecting it to be a closed case that kids of atheists would be on baptism blacklist and that the parents not being catholic (and not baptised - so no prodigals here; where is this assumption that everyone with kids in Ireland was raised catholic?) would be a big flag in the decision.

I can only speak for myself, but I assumed you were Catholic, because you're contemplating baptising your child Catholic. Makes it even more surprising, that you're not and never were.

brendanb586 wrote: »

Is this priest or his boss not alone being hypocrites, but also going against their internal rules??

I don't know the Catechism well enough to answer this. Yes they are being hypocritical, a lot of religions are, but what should you care if they are breaking their own internal rules? You're not a member and you've no interest in becoming a member.

Dades

catch me if you can wrote: »

Obviously we can only summise why the priest accomadated this child.
It may be for numbers or it may be because he is a nice man . Not all priests are evil doers.

All he was did was make a call to see if a sham baptism would enable a sham confirmation.
He's not stupid - he must know this is total nonsense.

Nobody suggested he was evil.

zico10

robindch wrote: »

You'll usually find that most quotes from the NT are used hereabouts precisely to highlight contradictions and hypocrisy

Now I'm interested.

zico10

zico10 wrote: »

Now I'm interested.

I checked it out, "Jesus wept", sorry don't get it. Perhaps cavedave would be so kind as to explain.

zico10

Animord wrote: »

She still doesn't understand and indeed she tells anyone who will listen that when she is gown up she is going to marry a RC so that her children wont have to put up with such random acts of cruelty.

If she has the foresight to see all this, I think she understands more than she is letting on.

Animord

zico10 wrote: »

If she has the foresight to see all this, I think she understands more than she is letting on.

After six months of the same bloody conversations about who is and who isn't RC and why, she would want to have worked it out.

kylith

Think this is the best thread for this.

My brother, whom I would describe as a Keeping-Up-With-The-Jones'-Can't-Be-Seen-To-Be-Different Catholic, is annoyed at the moment. Why is he annoyed? His local church is taking attendance of parents in mass. If he wants his little darling to make her communion this school year then he has to show his face in mass every Sunday. I'd laugh, if he hadn't roped me into working today so he can go pretend to be pious.

Standman

kylith wrote: »

Think this is the best thread for this.

My brother, whom I would describe as a Keeping-Up-With-The-Jones'-Can't-Be-Seen-To-Be-Different Catholic, is annoyed at the moment. Why is he annoyed? His local church is taking attendance of parents in mass. If he wants his little darling to make her communion this school year then he has to show his face in mass every Sunday. I'd laugh, if he hadn't roped me into working today so he can go pretend to be pious.

I think that's a great idea from that church. Would force a lot of a la carte Catholics to make a decision on whether religion is worth such commitment.

kylith

Standman wrote: »

I think that's a great idea from that church. Would force a lot of a la carte Catholics to make a decision on whether religion is worth such commitment.

I applaud it too. As you say; a la carte Catholics will have to make a commitment which, hopefully, will make them aware of what a Catholic actually is, and whether they're willing to make it. I hope they continue to do it, and for confirmations too.

robindch

kylith wrote: »

His local church is taking attendance of parents in mass.

Which church is that?

recedite

This reminds me of the way supermarkets place the sweets for sale at kids eye level near the checkouts, so they have to stare at them while waiting in the queue.
You're annoyed that they are using the child to put pressure on you.
On the other hand, nobody forced you to go in there.
On the other (third !) hand, where else can you go?

kylith

robindch wrote: »

Which church is that?

it's in Cabinteely, afaik.

strobe

Communion Hippopotamus? I approve.

goose2005

kylith wrote: »

Think this is the best thread for this.

My brother, whom I would describe as a Keeping-Up-With-The-Jones'-Can't-Be-Seen-To-Be-Different Catholic, is annoyed at the moment. Why is he annoyed? His local church is taking attendance of parents in mass. If he wants his little darling to make her communion this school year then he has to show his face in mass every Sunday. I'd laugh, if he hadn't roped me into working today so he can go pretend to be pious.

They should go further. Regular confession, and ask them to recite the Creed and explain every part of it, and ask them if they are disobeying church doctrine re. contraception (which is a mortal sin that disqualifies one from taking communion).

robindch

kylith wrote: »

robindch wrote: »

Which church is that?

it's in Cabinteely, afaik.

I'm kind of gobsmacked.

Do people actually go along with the priest headcounting or roll-calling parents? If I were out in Cabinteely on a sunday morning, rather than sailing in the Frostbites, I'd be well tempted to go along and see exactly what the priest is doing.

Seems way out of order to me.

Mistress 69

Just a few points , I was Baptized a Catholic, made my Communion and Confirmation and like most kids of the time was very happy to do so. Time has moved on, in previous posts I have described myself as a la Carte, but my views are not what is of importance on this thread. First Communion is next May for kids now in second class. We all know lots of parents (including me) do not practise their religion, and really only attend for Christmas, Easter, weddings, and funerals etc. These are now faced with a dilemma as to whether or not to let their child make first communion. This can be even more difficult if a parents view regarding the whole religion issue is changing or has changed . Simply put are they forcing their child to make communion or if opting out are they forcing their child not to make their communion. Surely the kids can go ahead and receive the sacraments and they can always make up / change their own mind in later years .... then again the opposing argument exits that they should not receive the sacraments now and if they wish do so at 18. I am hearing both arguments offline... a lot, though none of it from the kids!

MagicMarker

Mistress 69 wrote: »

Just a few points , I was Baptized a Catholic, made my Communion and Confirmation and like most kids of the time was very happy to do so. Time has moved on, in previous posts I have described myself as a la Carte, but my views are not what is of importance on this thread. First Communion is next May for kids now in second class. We all know lots of parents (including me) do not practise their religion, and really only attend for Christmas, Easter, weddings, and funerals etc. These are now faced with a dilemma as to whether or not to let their child make first communion. This can be even more difficult if a parents view regarding the whole religion issue is changing or has changed . Simply put are they forcing their child to make communion or if opting out are they forcing their child not to make their communion. Surely the kids can go ahead and receive the sacraments and they can always make up / change their own mind in later years .... then again the opposing argument exits that they should not receive the sacraments now and if they wish do so at 18. I am hearing both arguments offline... a lot, though none of it from the kids!

What do you expect the 7 year olds to say?

''Sorry mummy I don't think I should proceed with this religious ceremony as due to my age I feel I am unable to fully comprehend what I would be undertaking, and because of that... I'm out!''

robinph

Go to Disneyland.

Bet the other kids in the class don't want anything to do with the mini wedding dresses and bouncy castle then.

Mistress 69

MagicMarker wrote: »

What do you expect the 7 year olds to say?

''Sorry mummy I don't think I should proceed with this religious ceremony as due to my age I feel I am unable to fully comprehend what I would be undertaking, and because of that... I'm out!''

Obviously not, I was only illustrating a dilemma that faces a lot of parents, and some deal with that easier than others.