Bike to Work scheme - the Megathread - Read post #1 before posting

CramCycle

fcon wrote: »

Sugar, thought it would be chancing yer arm alright.

Has anyone tried it?

MOD VOICE: To do so would be to commit tax fraud, we will have no further discussion about tax fraud, attempting it or otherwise. Unless the power meter is part of the complete bike, it is not covered under the scheme. Any questions, via PM only

RainyDay

Is there any general rule for what kind of discount a shop will give on list price of a bike? No vouchers or middle-men - just a straight direct payment from a Govt department.

If I'm getting a bike that is listed at €999, should be hoping to get a decent lock or decent panniers thrown in for that price?

TheBlaaMan

10 - 12% could be negotiated in the past

Idleater

TheBlaaMan wrote: »

10 - 12% could be negotiated in the past

Optimistic on a btw bike. I've seen several shops that offer a btw lock or lights but I wouldn't trust my bike to a free lock. Decent panniers like ortlieb will be close to €100, again, the false economy of a free set that leak for €30 might just not be worth it.

If you pushed the budget to €1500 I'd be quite confident in being able to "haggle" the 10%.

RainyDay

Tks folks, I'm already pushing the budget to get to €999, so I won't be spending more on the bike. I definitely need a jacket and panniers, and a cable lock would be nice to go with my two u-locks. I don't expect to get all that for €1k, but I'd love to know what I could expect before I go in to haggle. I agree with you about cheap panniers - been there and got the t-shirt. My current ones don't leak, but are an awful pain to get on and off the bike. Having size 10 feet made it difficult to find panniers that wouldn't be rubbing off my heel.

Any other experiences would be very helpful.

dreamerb

RainyDay wrote: »

Any other experiences would be very helpful.

Does your employer pay directly or operate through a voucher scheme? If the latter, you'll be lucky to get more than a few euros of a discount. But if they pay directly, it'll depend on the shop. I got about 10% discount from ThinkBike on the same budget, and can wholeheartedly recommend them. You also get free servicing for 2 years when you buy your bike there.

RainyDay

dreamerb wrote: »

Does your employer pay directly or operate through a voucher scheme? If the latter, you'll be lucky to get more than a few euros of a discount. But if they pay directly, it'll depend on the shop. I got about 10% discount from ThinkBike on the same budget, and can wholeheartedly recommend them. You also get free servicing for 2 years when you buy your bike there.

Thanks for sharing. No vouchers and no middlemen in my case - direct payment from a Govt dept.

dreamerb

RainyDay wrote: »

Thanks for sharing. No vouchers and no middlemen in my case - direct payment from a Govt dept.

Perfect, same here. Do factor in that sending the application through PeoplePoint adds a good two or three weeks to the process.

RainyDay

Tks, yes, our accounts folks will take a few weeks to deal with it I'm sure. I'd have thought the shop would give you the bike once they have a approved purchase order - no?

Any other experiences re levels of discount achieved?

dreamerb

RainyDay wrote: »

Tks, yes, our accounts folks will take a few weeks to deal with it I'm sure. I'd have thought the shop would give you the bike once they have a approved purchase order - no?

Any other experiences re levels of discount achieved?

I went looking in my old emails to see just how long it took, and it was 2 days short of four weeks. They won't hand over the bicycle until the payment clears, and in my experience the big delay was with PeoplePoint sending it back to our own accounts people. (On a total aside, I have no idea at all what "added value" they were giving - it just all took longer than my first BtW purchase).

I also rechecked the amounts and I'm afraid I overstated the discount - it was actually 5%, with a couple of small extras thrown in. Sorry. Though the recommendation still stands...

custom_build

RainyDay wrote: »

Tks, yes, our accounts folks will take a few weeks to deal with it I'm sure. I'd have thought the shop would give you the bike once they have a approved purchase order - no?

Any other experiences re levels of discount achieved?

I got a bike for €1000 in fitzcycles and got €100 worth of free merchandise with it, i would have imagined that'd be standard enough.

Arequipa

Hi! i hope you are all well!
Quick question...I have my mind set on a Canyon.
My employer says that I have to fill in a couple of forms, get an invoice from the seller and then they will give me a cheque for the 'shop'...

Will Canyon accept a cheque?
On their website it says 1) cash 2)credit/debit card

Have tried to contact Canyon, but no response yet!

A

CramCycle

RainyDay wrote: »

Tks, yes, our accounts folks will take a few weeks to deal with it I'm sure. I'd have thought the shop would give you the bike once they have a approved purchase order - no?

A PO means nothing to a guy in a shop, most will only follow through when the cheque clears, which is fair enough. A PO number from someone you don't reallly know means nothing, works in business as you have a company to tag it too straight away.

My first one I used a cheque, so had to wait a few days for it to clear, the second time I used a card because I am very impatient.

Jabel

How do you know if your employer has availed of the scheme or not? Mine did give me a cheque for €,1000 for a BTW when I enquired about it but they never deducted any money over the year and now the business has been taken over and the company is no more.
Anyone else had this happen?

CramCycle

Jabel wrote: »

How do you know if your employer has availed of the scheme or not? Mine did give me a cheque for €,1000 for a BTW when I enquired about it but they never deducted any money over the year and now the business has been taken over and the company is no more.
Anyone else had this happen?

I have heard of one or two places where they forgot to start deducting it for a few months, in another they forgot to stop deducting it after 12 months, nothing like yours though.

Never heard of anything like your situation though, sounds like someone just gave you a 1000quid present :eek:

Jabel

That's what I was thinking and therefore still eligible for the BTW with new employer!

RainyDay

Jabel wrote: »

How do you know if your employer has availed of the scheme or not? Mine did give me a cheque for €,1000 for a BTW when I enquired about it but they never deducted any money over the year and now the business has been taken over and the company is no more.
Anyone else had this happen?

I'm suspecting that perhaps the company is 'no more' because they were very slopping at financial management!

Jabel wrote: »

That's what I was thinking and therefore still eligible for the BTW with new employer!

Not really, you are not eligible if you got a bike within the last five years. It could be difficult for Revenue to prove your tax fraud, as it would depend on what records are available from the now defunct company. There is no registration process, so your participation in the scheme on not registered centrally. Perhaps the shop records might become an issue at some stage.

custom_build wrote: »

I got a bike for €1000 in fitzcycles and got €100 worth of free merchandise with it, i would have imagined that'd be standard enough.

dreamerb wrote: »

I also rechecked the amounts and I'm afraid I overstated the discount - it was actually 5%, with a couple of small extras thrown in. Sorry. Though the recommendation still stands...

Tks for clarifications, folks.

CramCycle wrote: »

A PO means nothing to a guy in a shop, most will only follow through when the cheque clears, which is fair enough. A PO number from someone you don't reallly know means nothing, works in business as you have a company to tag it too straight away.

Yes and no. If you are selling stuff to businesses, purchase orders are very important. Businesses operate on credit for almost all purchases. A signed purchase order is a commitment that your invoice will get paid when the goods have been delivered. Businesses have strict controls over who can sign purchase orders, and how much signatories can commit the business to.

It suits the shop, and puts more control in the hands of the shop, to get the cash before they hand over the product. I had a problem with my last BTW purchase where one of the accessories couldn't be got when I came to take delivery, so I had to make do with a different brand, which didn't really suit me.

Shops should, like lots of other businesses, be happy to hand over the goods when they have a signed purchase order from a reputable business.

CramCycle

RainyDay wrote: »

I'm suspecting that perhaps the company is 'no more' because they were very slopping at financial management!

+1

Not really, you are not eligible if you got a bike within the last five years. It could be difficult for Revenue to prove your tax fraud, as it would depend on what records are available from the now defunct company. There is no registration process, so your participation in the scheme on not registered centrally. Perhaps the shop records might become an issue at some stage.

It depends if the current employment is counted as a new employment or as a TUPE from the old. If its the latter, then its not a new employment, its a transfer. If its the former, then it could be counted as a new employment and you would be free to avail of the scheme again but I think its unlikely that you were not TUPE'd over if you still work for them.

Yes and no. If you are selling stuff to businesses, purchase orders are very important. Businesses operate on credit for almost all purchases. A signed purchase order is a commitment that your invoice will get paid when the goods have been delivered. Businesses have strict controls over who can sign purchase orders, and how much signatories can commit the business to.

I know that, I meant that a small LBS is not going to accept POs from a person or company they don't know. All my work is through POs but we are a MNC, I just would not expect a small shop to accept it from one customer if you get me.

It suits the shop, and puts more control in the hands of the shop, to get the cash before they hand over the product. I had a problem with my last BTW purchase where one of the accessories couldn't be got when I came to take delivery, so I had to make do with a different brand, which didn't really suit me.

You could always say no, awkward as it may be, the shop has not provided you with what you paid for. Not sure how happy your company would have been but you could have just said no, I'll take a refund, thanks.

Chardee MacDennis

anyone have any recommendations on insuring your bike? don't want to still be paying if off and it be long gone :eek:

TychoCaine

custom_build wrote: »

I got a bike for €1000 in fitzcycles and got €100 worth of free merchandise with it, i would have imagined that'd be standard enough.

Same here. They gave a 10% credit for accessories. This is a legal way of getting stuff that isn't officially allowed, such as bike computers, shoes etc, as the scheme only allows for specific classes of accessories to be included as part of the purchase.

TychoCaine

Jabel wrote: »

How do you know if your employer has availed of the scheme or not? Mine did give me a cheque for €,1000 for a BTW when I enquired about it but they never deducted any money over the year and now the business has been taken over and the company is no more.
Anyone else had this happen?

woohoo! free bike!!!!

Seriously though, that €1k is classed as BIK, so you have a tax liability.

TychoCaine

RainyDay wrote: »

Shops should, like lots of other businesses, be happy to hand over the goods when they have a signed purchase order from a reputable business.

Meanwhile, in the real world...... No company will hand over goods on receipt of a PO from a random company. Purchase orders are an instruction to supply, on foot of a quote, goods to be paid for on previously agreed terms. Companies using a PO system will have an existing reoccurring business relationship and have credit terms already agreed. The only bike shops I know that'll hand over bikes with a PO are those that are running structured BtW schemes with large employers (i.e. those roadshow type events). In all other situations a cheque or credit card is involved, even if the employee does't see what goes on in the background between the employer and the shop.

RainyDay

TychoCaine wrote: »

Meanwhile, in the real world...... No company will hand over goods on receipt of a PO from a random company. Purchase orders are an instruction to supply, on foot of a quote, goods to be paid for on previously agreed terms. Companies using a PO system will have an existing reoccurring business relationship and have credit terms already agreed. The only bike shops I know that'll hand over bikes with a PO are those that are running structured BtW schemes with large employers (i.e. those roadshow type events). In all other situations a cheque or credit card is involved, even if the employee does't see what goes on in the background between the employer and the shop.

I'm not talking about 'random companies'. I'm talking about very large employers, public and private sector, household names - the ones who always pay by EFT, and haven't written a cheque in years.

TychoCaine

RainyDay wrote: »

I'm not talking about 'random companies'. I'm talking about very large employers, public and private sector, household names - the ones who always pay by EFT, and haven't written a cheque in years.

You're missing the point. I'm not saying that there'll be an actual cheque. I'm just saying that you'll get a funny look if you hand a PO from Google over the counter and look walk out the door with a bike. Unless a seller has a prior agreement with the buying company, a PO is just a fancy piece of paper, no matter who's letterhead it's on.

cython

TychoCaine wrote: »

You're missing the point. I'm not saying that there'll be an actual cheque. I'm just saying that you'll get a funny look if you hand a PO from Google over the counter and look walk out the door with a bike. Unless a seller has a prior agreement with the buying company, a PO is just a fancy piece of paper, no matter who's letterhead it's on.

Not to mention that while all of the below may be the case, pretty much none of it is meaningful if the shop has no prior business relationship with the vendor!

RainyDay wrote: »

Yes and no. If you are selling stuff to businesses, purchase orders are very important. Businesses operate on credit for almost all purchases. A signed purchase order is a commitment that your invoice will get paid when the goods have been delivered. Businesses have strict controls over who can sign purchase orders, and how much signatories can commit the business to.

It suits the shop, and puts more control in the hands of the shop, to get the cash before they hand over the product. I had a problem with my last BTW purchase where one of the accessories couldn't be got when I came to take delivery, so I had to make do with a different brand, which didn't really suit me.

Shops should, like lots of other businesses, be happy to hand over the goods when they have a signed purchase order from a reputable business.

Specifically in relation to the bold, if the shop have never dealt with the purchasing business before, they have no idea regarding who is authorised to sign, nor whether it is within the business's limit. Until such a time as that is validated/confirmed, the PO is no more valuable to them than any other piece of paper. If I knew what a Google PO looked like, I could go into a bike shop in the far corner of Donegal with one I made myself and they're very unlikely to know any different. If the shop don't expect any repeat/regular business from the employer again (and if there is no existing arrangement this may be the case), then the effort of validating POs is just a waste by comparison to dealing in cash/cheque/card.

DDD909

Question.

I am currently in the process of availing the B2W scheme. Bike costs €1000 and my employer wants me to pay €250 a month for 4 months.

Can someone advice me where the tax reduction is in this??

Under the impression i pay for the bike after the tax is reduced from the original price tag!!

CramCycle

DDD909 wrote: »

Question.

I am currently in the process of availing the B2W scheme. Bike costs €1000 and my employer wants me to pay €250 a month for 4 months.

Can someone advice me where the tax reduction is in this??

Under the impression i pay for the bike after the tax is reduced from the original price tag!!

Nope, the money saved is where you are not paying taxes on the wages used to pay for the bike.

If you imagine your gross income is reduced by 250euro per month, your net (cash in hand) is not reduced by 250euro but by a lower figure. If you are in the higher band of tax it will be reduced by 125 (approximately), in the lower band of tax about 75 etc.

TL:DR the cash in your hand at the end of the month will go down by less than 250 euro even though your employer took 250euro out of your wages.

nightrave

Can someone just clarify it as there are so many schemes - bike to work, cycle to work etc. Are those just different names for one scheme? I mean if I have received a bike from one can I apply at a different scheme?

iwillhtfu

If you get a voucher for a scheme then they'll have a list of shops for you to choose from. The ones you've listed are 2 of a number of schemes.

The easiest and most convenient way for the buyer is a bank transfer this also allows for purchasing from European stores but most large companies won't do a bank transfer.

dogsears

nightrave wrote: »

Can someone just clarify it as there are so many schemes - bike to work, cycle to work etc. Are those just different names for one scheme? I mean if I have received a bike from one can I apply at a different scheme?

Just one scheme with a tax break - you're right there are slightly different names out there, but its all the same scheme.

McGilla

Hi all,

So I'm looking at getting a bike on the B2W scheme!
I've been tempted by direct sales companies such as YT and Canyon as tehy offer serious spec for amazing value.

I've heard mixed opinions on weather yo can or cannot use the B2W for these companies.

I'm looking for experience in this: has any done this, or tried and failed to do this?
(If so how did you do it)

*Not looking for more speculation - thanks!*

Thanks in advance!

Beasty

Threads merged

Beasty

McGilla wrote: »

I've been tempted by direct sales companies such as YT and Canyon as tehy offer serious spec for amazing value.

I've heard mixed opinions on weather yo can or cannot use the B2W for these companies.

Your employer can use any supplier they choose, be it an online retailer or bricks and mortar shop

This thread sets out the rules and covers this issue many times

iwillhtfu

Ask your employer. They'll tell you how they operate the scheme. If it's a large multinational they'll be using a middle man scheme so you'll be tied to a certain list of stores.

In order to buy of Canyon your company needs to allow a bank transfer or use of a company credit card.

At the end of the day it will come down to how your company operates the scheme. Loads of info on buying off canyon back a few pages.

McGilla

iwillhtfu wrote: »

Ask your employer. They'll tell you how they operate the scheme. If it's a large multinational they'll be using a middle man scheme so you'll be tied to a certain list of stores.

In order to buy of Canyon your company needs to allow a bank transfer or use of a company credit card.

At the end of the day it will come down to how your company operates the scheme. Loads of info on buying off canyon back a few pages.

We're a small business, and we haven't run a B2W scheme before.
I'll be the first to avail of it.

Kaisr Sose

McGilla wrote: »

We're a small business, and we haven't run a B2W scheme before.
I'll be the first to avail of it.

Buying from an overseas supplier is permitted but there are certain VAT issues that arrise if the seller is not Irish VAT registered. (Getting a VAT free invoice and then self accounting for Irish VAT.). It all rests with your employer as to whether they will facilitate. AFAIK Canyon will not supply a bike without charging VAT.

Viper_JB

Hey folks, not sure if this is the thread for it but looking at doing the BTW scheme to pick up a road bike (big into the mountain biking at the moment but looking for something to help keep fit when I can't make the trails) so I want to use the full 1k or there abouts but mainly looking for the best bang for my buck. Something that I could do some sportive events in and stuff, best components within my budget, been looking at some giant bikes but heard that they're not the best within this budget?

nilhg

Viper_JB wrote: »

Hey folks, not sure if this is the thread for it but looking at doing the BTW scheme to pick up a road bike (big into the mountain biking at the moment but looking for something to help keep fit when I can't make the trails) so I want to use the full 1k or there abouts but mainly looking for the best bang for my buck. Something that I could do some sportive events in and stuff, best components within my budget, been looking at some giant bikes but heard that they're not the best within this budget?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=94922740

tippgod

Hi All
i am finding it very difficult to get this question answer by the bike to work scheme.
My weekly pay is bassed on €29k a year. i do a good bit of overtime at different times during the year and my last p60 was €36k.
on the cycle to work scheme, do i get a 31% or 51% reduction on the cost of a bike. Work has told us we have to pay it back over 6 weeks but neither them or the bike to work agency can tell me what rate i will be paying
thanks

Mr. Incognito

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/income_tax_credits_and_reliefs/cycle_to_work_scheme.html

Daithi101

tippgod wrote: »

Hi All
i am finding it very difficult to get this question answer by the bike to work scheme.
My weekly pay is bassed on €29k a year. i do a good bit of overtime at different times during the year and my last p60 was €36k.
on the cycle to work scheme, do i get a 31% or 51% reduction on the cost of a bike. Work has told us we have to pay it back over 6 weeks but neither them or the bike to work agency can tell me what rate i will be paying
thanks

try: bikes4work.ie, that will give you a break down what you will pay and save.

tippgod

Daithi101 wrote: »

try: bikes4work.ie, that will give you a break down what you will pay and save.

Thanks. I have alreaedy done that and i told them my wages and all i got back from them was "The cost of the bike or ticket comes from your gross pre-tax salary, so you save whatever PAYE, PRSI and USC you are paying. The rates vary depending on the individual's circumstances - you can save up to 31% or 51%. "

it was my "individual circumstance i was asking them about

Chips Lovell

I'd read it as it being taken out of whatever your gross pay was in the six week repayment period. How much you save is really dependent on how much you earn during that period.

brianomc

If you end up earning enough during the year that you are on the higher rate of tax at the end of year then you will save at the 51% rate.
If you don't, you will save at the 31% rate.

It might look initially like you only save at the lower if all your overtime comes towards the end of the year, but because your wages each week/month are calculated by looking at your earnings/tax paid for the whole year to date and not just each week you will get the benefit later in the year too.

This doesn't apply to people on emergency tax or week 1 basis where you tax is calculated based only on what you earn that week.

Beasty

Currently on mobile and cannot merge this onto the relevant mega thread. You will save whatever your top rate of tax in during this tax year. If you only pay 31% that's how much you save. If you end up paying the top rate you will save that.

jon1981

Beasty wrote: »

You will save whatever your top rate of tax in during this tax year. If you only pay 31% that's how much you save. If you end up paying the top rate you will save that.

This!

more info here:

https://www.cyclescheme.ie/employers/employer-faqs#/employers/employer-faqs/How are the savings made?

The benefit is exempt from income tax and the benefit-in-kind arising from the provision of a bicycle/bicycle safety equipment by an employer to an employee or director, where the bicycle/associated safety equipment is used by the employee or director mainly for qualifying journeys. Under the scheme you don’t pay income tax, PRSI or Universal Social Charge on the price of the bicycle and/or safety equipment so you can save between 31% and 51% on the retail price (depending on your marginal tax rate).

jimmycrackcorm

The way it works is that the cost of the scheme is spread by your employer over say the year and the monthly equivalent is deducted from your gross income before tax is calculated. Then it is added back in again to your net pay.

Hence how much you save is determined by how much your pretax income is offset by the amount being deducted.

CramCycle

Beasty wrote: »

Currently on mobile and cannot merge this onto the relevant mega thread.

MOD VOICE: Merged

bbolger

I'm leaving my current employer in April and starting a new job in May.

Purchased a bike on the scheme in Dec 2014 with payments being deducted monthly.

My understanding is that I can pay the final balance in April to avail of the full tax benefit.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Thanks.

CramCycle

bbolger wrote: »

I'm leaving my current employer in April and starting a new job in May.

Purchased a bike on the scheme in Dec 2014 with payments being deducted monthly.

My understanding is that I can pay the final balance in April to avail of the full tax benefit.

Has anyone had a similar experience?

Thanks.

There should be lower tax as you will have a far lower pay packet than normal in April.

You will notice the full reward at the end of the year if your monthly wages are not high enough to give you the full benefit, when you request a P21.

If your really well paid though you will notice it all in April.