Autumn migration 2011 (Birds)

Mothman

Saw plenty of Wheatears today both in my field at home and at the coast.

trebor28

is this the immigrants thread or the emigrants thread?:D

Mothman

trebor28 wrote: »

is this the immigrants thread or the emigrants thread?:D

Both

trebor28

Mothman wrote: »

Both

Tut Tut, passport control will have their union onto you!

Birdnuts

Autumn for me starts when the first Golden Plover arrive back on the Curragh - usually the second week in July:)

Bsal

I have a Chiffchaff hanging around the garden for the last few weeks, I noticed some odd behaviour today with the Chiffchaff, he/she was chasing my House Sparrows around whenever they took to the air. They almost hit my window a cuple of times too. All I can think of is the Chiffchaff is trying to maybe catch some parasite on the feathers of the Sparrows. Any thoughts? I also saw a few Wheatears on the rocks around Skerries recently too.

V Bull

Mothman wrote: »

Saw plenty of Wheatears today both in my field at home and at the coast.

The same in Wexford area over the weekend, lots of Wheatears.

Lots of Lapwings gathering in the midlands, great sight..

Birdnuts

Dunlin, ringed plover etc. all taking advantage of the alarmingly low water levels on the Blessington lakes, which have exposed large areas of mud flats= wader heaven;)

doctor evil

Anyone seen any Blackcaps yet?

Durnish

Gosh, will the southwesterly gales forecast for this weekend affect the birds trying to fly south?

V_Moth

Durnish wrote: »

Gosh, will the southwesterly gales forecast for this weekend affect the birds trying to fly south?

Yes. Most of them will sit tight and wait for better weather conditions along the south coast. On the plus side, a few rare migrants could turn up from Europe and North America.

slowburner

Masses of swallows (?) heading south today, all day. A month early perhaps ?

Birdnuts

Wheaters and White Wagtails moving through Blessington lake and quarries in recent days:)

blue5000

slowburner wrote: »

Masses of swallows (?) heading south today, all day. A month early perhaps ?

Ya noticed a flock of them flying over the cattle yesterday, none today though.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Still plenty of Swallows in the North East. No signs of them leaving any time soon.

slowburner

Estella Teeny Surliness wrote: »

Still plenty of Swallows in the North East. No signs of them leaving any time soon.

The migration can be very deceptive. If you watch them for a good while, you will notice that they are generally heading south. It can appear as if it is your normal resident population but in actual fact, what is happening is that birds from further north are passing by and hovering around, having a bit of a feed, meeting up with old friends and generally having the crack before the long journey.
If you keep an eye northward, you will see them appear out of the current grey gloom in ones and twos.
I think I'm a bit lucky where I am, in the sense that I have a great vantage point over what must be a significant route for the birds.
Curiously, I only see them when they go.
That's what I have observed down this neck of the woods, anyway, on this the third day of the migration. The numbers are smaller now though.
Do they fly at night, I wonder.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I have been professionally monitoring migration in this region for decades. There is no migration of Swallows south from here as yet - as I stated. It is usually late September before it begins here.

trebor28

i have a late brood which are only fledged in the last week or so

LostCovey

slowburner wrote: »

The migration can be very deceptive. If you watch them for a good while, you will notice that they are generally heading south. It can appear as if it is your normal resident population but in actual fact, what is happening is that birds from further north are passing by and hovering around, having a bit of a feed, meeting up with old friends and generally having the crack before the long journey.

Estella Teeny Surliness wrote: »

I have been professionally monitoring migration in this region for decades. There is no migration of Swallows south from here as yet - as I stated. It is usually late September before it begins here.

As someone who assumed that slowburner's description is exactly how Swallow migration happened, can you tell us how your monitoring methods exclude this Estella Teeny Surliness?
LC

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

LostCovey wrote: »

can you tell us how your monitoring methods exclude this Srameen?
LC

Ever hear of ringing and tagging?

slowburner

Estella Teeny Surliness wrote: »

Ever hear of ringing and tagging?

Just out of genuine curiosity, how does ringing and tagging tell us that a migration is under way? Are the birds captured tagged here and then captured in N.Africa where their tags are read - or vice versa?

trebor28

slowburner wrote: »

Just out of genuine curiosity, how does ringing and tagging tell us that a migration is under way? Are the birds captured tagged here and then captured in N.Africa where their tags are read - or vice versa?

from what i have seen on springwatch, they put up nests along coasts etc, catch birds and ring them, or record them if they are already ringed.

slowburner

trebor28 wrote: »

from what i have seen on springwatch, they put up nests along coasts etc, catch birds and ring them, or record them if they are already ringed.

Do they not have to know when the migration is about to happen before they put up nets? Surely ringing only tells you where the birds have come from or where they have gone to - I just cannot understand how ringing could tell us when the migration is occurring.

trebor28

slowburner wrote: »

Do they not have to know when the migration is about to happen before they put up nets? Surely ringing only tells you where the birds have come from or where they have gone to - I just cannot understand how ringing could tell us when the migration is occurring.

well im no expert on this but i think the birds are fairly consistent year in year out, with only a couple of days difference in some years.

it wouldnt be that hard to put up the nets a week or two in advance and check them to see if anything is caught.

LostCovey

Estella Teeny Surliness wrote: »

Ever hear of ringing and tagging?

Yes I have heard of both procedures.

Go on, tell us more, I am genuinely interested in how you establish that the swallows flying around at this time of the year are definitely all local, not Scottish birds or Antrim birds.


Please tell us what your ringing and tagging studies have shown in this respect.

Thanks

LostCovey

slowburner

trebor28 wrote: »

well im no expert on this but i think the birds are fairly consistent year in year out, with only a couple of days difference in some years.

it wouldnt be that hard to put up the nets a week or two in advance and check them to see if anything is caught.

I'm no expert either, but I would have thought that the massive migration I saw on the 9th, was at least two weeks early: based purely on my own observations over the past ten years.
I can't find any information which states the usual migration period of swallows.
Good link here describing migration studies

Mothman

slowburner wrote: »

I'm no expert either, but I would have thought that the massive migration I saw on the 9th, was at least two weeks early: based purely on my own observations over the past ten years.
I can't find any information which states the usual migration period of swallows.
Good link here describing migration studies

My mass congregation of Swallows last year was on the 8th Sept.
See here

There were many 1,000s if not more, so many folks swallows had left by this stage.

Itsdacraic

The swallows from my sheds gathered and left last week.

slowburner

Mothman wrote: »

My mass congregation of Swallows last year was on the 8th Sept.
See here

There were many 1,000s if not more, so many folks swallows had left by this stage.

So the start date for this year's migration is almost identical to last year's. Would you have stats for previous years, by any chance? I'm wondering really if;

a) the migration is showing a tendency to become earlier and
b) if it could portend a cold winter.

If migration dates for the past three autumns (when we have had severe winters) were significantly earlier than the previous three or four (when the winters weren't as bad), then it could be an indicator of a severe winter to come. Not very scientific, I know, but a bit interesting?

BTW, I'll bet you see them in Ashford as they skirt around Carrick Mountain - after that, I believe they follow the Avonmore and the Avoca Vale. I saw them gather at the harbour mouth in Arklow on the 8th.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Migration is a complex subject and often confused with the flocking behaviour of many species in Autumn. Swallows for example gather in large flocks in early September. These flocks may move about a region for several weeks before migration actually occurs (We often get calls from people who are confused because they saw large numbers of Swallows flying North in September – yes they are travelling North for food but only for a few miles; they are not migrating anywhere) Migration is much faster in spring than in autumn, with males and, to some extent, females competing to arrive early and get first access to preferred partners (Møller 1994). Autumn migration can often be a lazy drift south, feeding as they go.
We can only truly say migration has started by watching known migration coastal routes and recording ringed/tagged birds still in the country, or found abroad. Weather conditions also play a major part in when migrations begin (some begin and stall and begin again!)

If we want to be really pedantic, migration for Swallows begins in August most years, as some birds do head South early. The mass migration from Ireland is late September into October. There are no specific dates, for obvious reasons, for it starting or finishing.
And, at the risk of repeating myself, - here in the North East there is no mass migration yet. Large flocks forming and moving about but not migrating yet.

slowburner

Estella Teeny Surliness wrote: »

Migration is a complex subject and often confused with the flocking behaviour of many species in Autumn. Swallows for example gather in large flocks in early September. These flocks may move about a region for several weeks before migration actually occurs (We often get calls from people who are confused because they saw large numbers of Swallows flying North in September – yes they are travelling North for food but only for a few miles; they are not migrating anywhere) Migration is much faster in spring than in autumn, with males and, to some extent, females competing to arrive early and get first access to preferred partners (Møller 1994). Autumn migration can often be a lazy drift south, feeding as they go.
We can only truly say migration has started by watching known migration coastal routes and recording ringed/tagged birds still in the country, or found abroad. Weather conditions also play a major part in when migrations begin (some begin and stall and begin again!)

If we want to be really pedantic, migration for Swallows begins in August most years, as some birds do head South early. The mass migration from Ireland is late September into October. There are no specific dates, for obvious reasons, for it starting or finishing.
And, at the risk of repeating myself, - here in the North East there is no mass migration yet. Large flocks forming and moving about but not migrating yet.

Thanks for that Estella Teeny Surliness. There were definitely no birds here heading north. It is interesting that there should be such a difference between the north east and the south east. As you say, I would have thought the migrations would more usually occur around late September early October. So from the information in this thread, the migrations of 2011 and 2010 have been early.
Are there records available which show the start of swallow migrations from Ireland?

ThunderCat

It's staggering the distances these little birds cover and the relatively short space of time it takes them to do so. To think that most of them have to cross the Sahara, Kalahari and Nabib deserts is mind boggling. I've read that the most trecherous part of the journey is crossing the Sahara and a lot don't make it. Some groups skirt the west coastline of Africa instead and others travel east as far as the Nile rather than go straight across it.
It's sad to think that on the return journey, the swallows make the tough journey across these three deserts and then as they reach portugal and spain, they get shot at. I have to say, it's my favourite time of the year when I see the first swallow arrive back here in Spring. Seeing them make it all the way back fills you with a feeling that you cant put a price on. Safe Journey to Africa lads!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

slowburner wrote: »

Are there records available which show the start of swallow migrations from Ireland?

Not long after the last Ice Age, I believe.

slowburner

ThunderCat wrote: »

It's staggering the distances these little birds cover and the relatively short space of time it takes them to do so. To think that most of them have to cross the Sahara, Kalahari and Nabib deserts is mind boggling. I've read that the most trecherous part of the journey is crossing the Sahara and a lot don't make it. Some groups skirt the west coastline of Africa instead and others travel east as far as the Nile rather than go straight across it.
It's sad to think that on the return journey, the swallows make the tough journey across these three deserts and then as they reach portugal and spain, they get shot at. I have to say, it's my favourite time of the year when I see the first swallow arrive back here in Spring. Seeing them make it all the way back fills you with a feeling that you cant put a price on. Safe Journey to Africa lads!

My favourite time too. Every year, when they arrive, they come into my workshop, fly around once and back out the door. You'd swear they were saying hello.

slowburner

Estella Teeny Surliness wrote: »

Not long after the last Ice Age, I believe.

A list which has recorded the annual start of migrations from Ireland since the year 2000, then. A list going back to the end of the last Ice Age might be a bit too long.:pac::pac:

trebor28

still have a few swallows knocking around here.

also heard a Chiffchaff over the weekend, thought they'd be long gone.

Bsal

also heard a Chiffchaff over the weekend, thought they'd be long gone

I still have a Chiffchaff about the garden too, he/she has been around for 6/7 weeks now. The Chiffchaff is still chasing my Sparrows around the garden whenever they fly from the bushes to the feeders.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Chiffchaff still here too. They'll be around for another 10 days or so, going by previous years.

slowburner

I don't remember seeing a migration of swallows like this year's. On the 8th and 9th of September, there was a massive migration - the most dense I have ever seen. That was just before the remnants of an Atlantic storm hit our shores on the 10/11th. There was no noticeable migration for a few days and then there were subsequent, sporadic migrations but nothing like the scale of the first migration.
There are still plenty around here, but these are birds stopping off for a feed on their way south.
The other day, half a dozen stopped for a rest on our roof tiles which were being toasted by the sun, and had a good preen. I have never seen them sit on our roof tiles before, usually they perch on the old TV aerial.

stevensi

trebor28 wrote: »

still have a few swallows knocking around here.

also heard a Chiffchaff over the weekend, thought they'd be long gone.

I had good numbers of Chiffchaff on my evening stroll at least 10. Some Chiffchaff even over-winter here as I have seen them in December and Jan although after the last 2 winters they may begin to change their mind about that strategy

slowburner

0 swallows today - all gone.

littlebug

Any whoopers around yet?
I passed by Belclare turlough earlier which is filling up nicely, earlier than last year. I could see some swans in the distance but of course had no camera or binoculars with me :rolleyes: Seems a little early for them but they were first to arrive at Belclare last year.
I'll get back over there at the weekend for a better look.

Still seeing plenty of swallows here.

slowburner

slowburner wrote: »

0 swallows today - all gone.

As soon as I posted this, dozens more arrived.

Mothman

Was at nearby coast on Wednesday 12th and saw a Wheatear and saw quite a few Wheatears the previous week.

A Brent Goose in the sea on Wed as well

Bsal

On Thursday I seen alot of Brent Geese flying low level just over the top of the water at Broadmeadows estuary near Malahide.

siledee

Just saw my first whoopers (approx 20) of the year about 10 mins ago.
Probably heading to Lough Neagh or similar areas.

trebor28

the first Fieldfares around me, very good at playing hide and seek as usual.
best pic i could get.

littlebug

Heard my first redwing today

trebor28

i watched autumnwatch a few weeks back and in one instance Chris said that sparrowhawks come across for scandinavia along with the finches and similar type birds.

what does this mean for our sparrowhawks? do they migrate following some of our birds overseas?

and if they dont, how do they manage in the winter with all the cover gone from deciduous trees?
granted there will be evergreens left around to provide cover but surely these will be few and far between, and might not be in decent locations for hunting the right prey.

whyulittle

Interesting entry on IrishBirding.com tonight - a belatedly IDed Yellow-billed Cuckoo.

snowstreams

Hen harriers must be migrating to lower land again now because I saw a male one fly beside me on the M6 motorway near ballinasloe today. It was the first male one Ive ever seen for certain.