Turkish navy to escort future aid missions to Gaza

jonsnow

According to a report by Turkish media agency Hurriyet, Turkish officials have pledged to accompany any future civilian aid missions to Gaza, saying, " The eastern Mediterranean will no longer be a place where Israeli naval forces can freely exercise their bullying practices against civilian vessels".

The announcement came just after the release of the Palmer Report of the United Nations, which both condemns the excessive use of force by Israeli forces in an attack on a Turkish aid ship in 2010, in which Israeli troops killed nine aid workers, and justifies the Israeli siege on the Gaza Strip. The Palmer Report says that the Israeli siege of Gaza is lawful, a claim that has been challenged by international law experts, including the Center for Constitutional Rights.

Turkish President Recep Erdogan was reportedly angered by the report, which he felt downplayed the Israeli aggressive action in international waters, which would normally be considered an act of piracy.

Erdogan also announced that he plans to visit the Gaza Strip in the near future, adding, "Our primary purpose is to draw the world’s attention to what is going on in Gaza and to push the international community to end the unfair embargo imposed by Israel."

According to Sunday's report, the Turkish navy will increase its presence in the eastern Mediterranean Sea to counter Israeli naval forces stationed in international waters to enforce the naval blockade preventing any goods or passengers from entering the Israeli-occupied Gaza Strip.

Lets see the Israelis attack a bigger more powerful navy which is a NATO member.On the other hand this is the country which attacked the USS Liberty and then basically told the President to go **** himself when asked for an explanation.So this could be very very dangerous.

Probably just posturing by turkey though.I don,t see them going through with it.The Israelis are too aggressive and crazy to make it worth the risk.

Jelle1880

Hard talk, won't happen I think.

Turkey is all talk these days, but won't risk a war with Israel (Whose government could very well be tempted into it, they're not exactly the most stable bunch out there).

OS119

Jelle1880 wrote: »

Hard talk, won't happen I think.

one would hope so.

both Turkey snd Israel have significant military capability, and neither government has a track record of going far out of their way to achieve an acceptable compromise.

i would previously have thought that Turkey is playing the domestic drums, but that it wouldn't do anying quite so stupid: but Turkey is changing its foriegn policy, casting off its previously close, - and very useful and longstanding - relationship with Israel, and being a complete pain in the arse within NATO and not exactly working hard to make friends and influence people with regards to its application for membership of the EU.

i'm thinking they are going for 'regional power' status in the ME and Caucuses, and wouldn't be surprised if they 'back-burnered' their EU aspirations, and (effectvely) left NATO - having contrived and limited fisticuffs with Israel would enable them to make like the big beast of regional politics.

they are doing something similar with Syria - all Turkey, not through the UN or local bodies, just Turkey flexing its considerable muscles.
-

jonsnow

OS119 wrote: »

one would hope so.

both Turkey snd Israel have significant military capability, and neither government has a track record of going far out of their way to achieve an acceptable compromise.

i would previously have thought that Turkey is playing the domestic drums, but that it wouldn't do anying quite so stupid: but Turkey is changing its foriegn policy, casting off its previously close, - and very useful and longstanding - relationship with Israel, and being a complete pain in the arse within NATO and not exactly working hard to make friends and influence people with regards to its application for membership of the EU.

i'm thinking they are going for 'regional power' status in the ME and Caucuses, and wouldn't be surprised if they 'back-burnered' their EU aspirations, and (effectvely) left NATO - having contrived and limited fisticuffs with Israel would enable them to make like the big beast of regional politics.

they are doing something similar with Syria - all Turkey, not through the UN or local bodies, just Turkey flexing its considerable muscles.
-

Turkey will never leave NATO.It gives it to much access to training with modern armies and getting hi-tech military equipment.Also the NATO charter will be interesting as the US is legally obliged to help turkey if turkey is attacked.No doubt it will renege on that commitment blaming turkish "aggression" for any conflict but will it do its usual act of rushing munitions and replacement fighters to the Israelis against a longstanding NATO ally.

This is interesting though-the Israelis can,t just push the turks around.They are a serious military player.

MajorMax

Egypt & Syria were both heavy hitters militarily speaking & Israel made mincemeat of them both. I can't see Turkey pulling off a sucessful military operation against Israel. The supply lines are too long and Israel has a lot of Juice in Washington. This is just sabre rattling on Turkeys part. Turkeys Generals aren't stupid

anymore

jonsnow wrote: »

According to a report by Turkish media agency Hurriyet, Turkish officials have pledged to accompany any future civilian aid missions to Gaza, saying, " The eastern Mediterranean will no longer be a place where Israeli naval forces can freely exercise their bullying practices against civilian vessels".

The announcement came just after the release of the Palmer Report of the United Nations, which both condemns the excessive use of force by Israeli forces in an attack on a Turkish aid ship in 2010, in which Israeli troops killed nine aid workers, and justifies the Israeli siege on the Gaza Strip. The Palmer Report says that the Israeli siege of Gaza is lawful, a claim that has been challenged by international law experts, including the Center for Constitutional Rights.

Turkish President Recep Erdogan was reportedly angered by the report, which he felt downplayed the Israeli aggressive action in international waters, which would normally be considered an act of piracy.

Erdogan also announced that he plans to visit the Gaza Strip in the near future, adding, "Our primary purpose is to draw the world’s attention to what is going on in Gaza and to push the international community to end the unfair embargo imposed by Israel."

According to Sunday's report, the Turkish navy will increase its presence in the eastern Mediterranean Sea to counter Israeli naval forces stationed in international waters to enforce the naval blockade preventing any goods or passengers from entering the Israeli-occupied Gaza Strip.

Lets see the Israelis attack a bigger more powerful navy which is a NATO member.On the other hand this is the country which attacked the USS Liberty and then basically told the President to go **** himself when asked for an explanation.So this could be very very dangerous.

Probably just posturing by turkey though.I don,t see them going through with it.The Israelis are too aggressive and crazy to make it worth the risk.

Is there an election coming up in Turkey ?

Jelle1880

Not to mention that the Yanks just have to throw an evil glance towards Turkey and they'll back off.

jonsnow

MajorMax wrote: »

Egypt & Syria were both heavy hitters militarily speaking & Israel made mincemeat of them both. I can't see Turkey pulling off a sucessful military operation against Israel. The supply lines are too long and Israel has a lot of Juice in Washington. This is just sabre rattling on Turkeys part. Turkeys Generals aren't stupid

Israel overhyped military lost the last war they fought in Lebanon against what amounted to a militia.The turks are NATO trained, have more of everything and spend 10 billion more on defence.If Israels "daddy" stays out of it the turks could easily give the israelis a bloody nose.

Tabnabs

The Turks and the Israeli's also have submarines. Which could make for interesting escorts and intercepting vessels...

Jelle1880

jonsnow wrote: »

Israel overhyped military lost the last war they fought in Lebanon against what amounted to a militia.The turks are NATO trained, have more of everything and spend 10 billion more on defence.If Israels "daddy" stays out of it the turks could easily give the israelis a bloody nose.

I suggest you look into Hezbollah a bit more.
They're far more trained, equipped and funded than 'a militia'.
Not to mention that Israel didn't go full out because they had to wage urban warfare. They could have easily just bombarded the place back to the stone age if they wanted to.

Same goes for your comment re. the IDF, they may be less people than the Turks but that doesn't matter, as previous wars have shown.

Pride Fighter

MajorMax wrote: »

Egypt & Syria were both heavy hitters militarily speaking & Israel made mincemeat of them both. I can't see Turkey pulling off a sucessful military operation against Israel. The supply lines are too long and Israel has a lot of Juice in Washington. This is just sabre rattling on Turkeys part. Turkeys Generals aren't stupid

I'm pretty sure Egypt and Syria had inferior Soviet technology whereas if Israel fights Turkey it's F-16 versus F-16 and M-1 tank versus M-1 tank. Also Turkey is a nation of 70 million people and to use Erdogan's words would come down on Israel like an earthquake.

Anyway, I cannot see Israel declare war on Turkey and in turn declare war on the US, Britain and most of Europe who are in NATO.

paul71

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Egypt and Syria had inferior Soviet technology whereas if Israel fights Turkey it's F-16 versus F-16 and M-1 tank versus M-1 tank. Also Turkey is a nation of 70 million people and to use Erdogan's words would come down on Israel like an earthquake.

Anyway, I cannot see Israel declare war on Turkey and in turn declare war on the US, Britain and most of Europe who are in NATO.

I very much doubt it would go that far, but NATO would certanly have a problem if it did.

I could not see France, Britain or USA supporting Turkey but what effect would that have on the mindset of former eastern block countries who as new members of NATO see its basic tenent of mutual support failing.

dlofnep

The Turks won't be as easy to bully in the open seas, and certainly will be more armed than a few sticks and butter knives. Good on the Turks. The amount of accommodation for Israel's actions is woeful. It's time someone stood up to them.

Manach

Turkey would be a compatent, NATO trained Western power. Historically, the Turks have engaged in military action to divert attention from domestic issues (as per WWI) and also were not daunted by massive casualty figures (as per various Balkan wars). Hopefully though both sides will see sense and tone down the rhetoric.

halkar

What is more interesting is that Erdogan due to visit Egypt next week and if Egypt allows he will be visiting Gaza also. He will be the first high level politician entering Gaza in many years if this happens. Israel is not very happy with this either.

the_syco

An armed convoy bringing ships that are not allowed into Israeli waters, into Israeli waters.

It'd be in Israels best interests to have guns, missiles, etc, on the ships that are been escorted.

Wolfe Tone

Well done the Turks I say if this is true, they wont be easily bullied around by the Israelis.

OS119

Pride Fighter wrote: »

...Anyway, I cannot see Israel declare war on Turkey and in turn declare war on the US, Britain and most of Europe who are in NATO.

thats not how NATO works - mutual defence only comes into play when the NATO country involved is attacked (however each NATO country chooses to define 'attacked'). mutual aid does not apply when a NATO country picks a fight with a non-NATO country and has some air and naval skirmishes with that country over an issue that is not connected to its territorial integrity or vital national interests.

Israel isn't going do anything pre-emtive in this situation, it will see if the Turks actually back up their claims, and are far more likely to use air power to attack whatever they don't like as it gets offloaded in Gaza port than have a fight with the Turkish Navy in international waters.

whatever the political rhetoric, the militaries of both Turkey and Israel are going to be extremely wary of getting to into any kind of situation where they force the other side to shoot first - so the Israelis will shadow, but not too closely, the Turkish Navy, and not take any violent action while the Turkish Navy is escorting the vessels in international waters, and the Turkish Navy will take great care to remain in international waters and won't get involved in whater happens away from international waters.

anyone who thinks that Turkey - and NATO - is going to go to war with Israel is putting to much crack on their cornflakes.

dlofnep

the_syco wrote: »

An armed convoy bringing ships that are not allowed into Israeli waters, into Israeli waters.

It's not as if Israel would ever dare breach the territorial boundaries of another nation.

jonsnow

dlofnep wrote: »

It's not as if Israel would ever dare breach the territorial boundaries of another nation.

Or dare attack a ship in international waters

Alopex

Israelis should try and mend the damage over the flotilla massacre. Their relationship with turkey was a small shred of hope for the middle east.

I fear this tension may lead to a massively escalated crisis in the next few years.

Perhaps Israeli hardliners want to cut ties with Turkey knowing America will back them up. Turkey being friendly goes against the theory that all Muslims are out to get them.

anymore

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Well done the Turks I say if this is true, they wont be easily bullied around by the Israelis.

Given that the Israelis once blew up an US navy vessel, I dont think they will be overawed by the Turks - maybe the Israelis should consider offering assistance to the Kurds ?
Of course the funny thing about this is that the Turks very entusistically cooperated with Israel for several decades.

anymore

dlofnep wrote: »

The Turks won't be as easy to bully in the open seas, and certainly will be more armed than a few sticks and butter knives. Good on the Turks. The amount of accommodation for Israel's actions is woeful. It's time someone stood up to them.

Smacks of the jingoism that preceded the First World War !
History teaches us ......that history teaches us nothing !
Howver the Turks will be able to finance this expedition using sone of the millions of US aid which she accepts from the ' US Devil' !

MajorMax

jonsnow wrote: »

Israel overhyped military lost the last war they fought in Lebanon against what amounted to a militia.The turks are NATO trained, have more of everything and spend 10 billion more on defence.If Israels "daddy" stays out of it the turks could easily give the israelis a bloody nose.

The war in Lebanon was hampered by political agendas. Do you really believe that the IDF was stopped by militia?

anymore

jonsnow wrote: »

Israel overhyped military lost the last war they fought in Lebanon against what amounted to a militia.The turks are NATO trained, have more of everything and spend 10 billion more on defence.If Israels "daddy" stays out of it the turks could easily give the israelis a bloody nose.

You seem to forget that Israels ' Daddy' is the one that Turkey is only too willing to rent out Incerlik air base to !

dlofnep

anymore wrote: »

Howver the Turks will be able to finance this expedition using sone of the millions of US aid which she accepts from the ' US Devil' !

I hope it does. I hope they use US funds for the entire operation. It might balance out the 3 billion that Israel receives every year from the US to upload it's settlements.

the_syco

dlofnep wrote: »

the_syco wrote: »

An armed convoy bringing ships that are not allowed into Israeli waters, into Israeli waters..

It's not as if Israel would ever dare breach the territorial boundaries of another nation.

It will be seen in either of two ways:
A) We do not agree with you, we will write a formal letter of complaint to the UN, and we will not let you through
An armed armada has breached our sovereign territory, fire, fire, fire!!!

anymore wrote: »

You seem to forget that Israels ' Daddy' is the one that Turkey is only too willing to rent out Incerlik air base to !

The USA needs both countries for their airfields, except Turkey needs the USA far less than Israel needs the USA.

=-=

IMO, Turkey will do something to gain face, but not something that will lose lives.

LondonIrish90

The Turks do not want war. If they attempt to break through the legal and justified Israeli blockade of Gaza's ports then they will almost certainly have war. It will be a war started by Turkey's actions.

Besides, NATO is an absolute farce at times and there is no way that the likes of the United States, Britain, France and Germany would assist the Turks (who would actually be the aggressors).

So, to those of you saying "good on the turks", you are doing nothing more than war mongering.

LondonIrish90

dlofnep wrote: »

I hope it does. I hope they use US funds for the entire operation. It might balance out the 3 billion that Israel receives every year from the US to upload it's settlements.

This is one of the main reasons that Turkey will not follow up its words with actions. They will not want to destroy their cozy little relationship with the United States.

What it comes down to is that they will quell their natural hatred of the jewish state as it will mean prolonged financial benefit.

dlofnep

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

What it comes down to is that they will quell their natural hatred of the jewish state as it will mean prolonged financial benefit.

Care to expand on that?

Jaafa

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

The Turks do not want war. If they attempt to break through the legal and justified Israeli blockade of Gaza's ports then they will almost certainly have war. It will be a war started by Turkey's actions.

Besides, NATO is an absolute farce at times and there is no way that the likes of the United States, Britain, France and Germany would assist the Turks (who would actually be the aggressors).

So, to those of you saying "good on the turks", you are doing nothing more than war mongering.

If this goes through (which it probably won't) theres not a hope in hell Israel would dare attack the only army/navy in the middle that can challenge it. It simply does not help it in any way to do so. So the people in Gaza get a few tonnes of aid (let's be honest The Turks will check the cargo there won't be weapons) sure seems like a better option than risking full scale war with arguably one of the top 10/15 armies in the world.

And again the Turks aren't stupid either IF they go through with this they'll only do it if their fully confident Israel won't respond.

KeithAFC

Israel will not be afraid and rightly so. Turkey won't carry this out.

vellocet

KeithAFC wrote: »

Israel will not be afraid and rightly so. Turkey won't carry this out.

Yes they bloody will. Let us remind ourselves that last year Israel illegally attacked a Turkish flagged vessel in international waters and killed its citizens. Turkey is a militarised society and have the clout both militarily and NATO behind it to out bully the bully's. Make no mistake, they want the Israeli's do do something daft to put them back in their box.

vellocet

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

What it comes down to is that they will quell their natural hatred of the jewish state as it will mean prolonged financial benefit.

This is the same Turkey that was the first muslim state to recognise Israel and was doing joint military manoeuvres with them up to 18 months ago?

Put the anti-semitism card away petal.

KeithAFC

vellocet wrote: »

Yes they bloody will. Let us remind ourselves that last year Israel illegally attacked a Turkish flagged vessel in international waters and killed its citizens. Turkey is a militarised society and have the clout both militarily and NATO behind it to out bully the bully's. Make no mistake, they want the Israeli's do do something daft to put them back in their box.

Israel has the support of America and the UK.

vellocet

KeithAFC wrote: »

Israel has the support of America and the UK.

And NATO has a legally binding mutual defence treaty with the Turks.

One thing bombing schools in the Gaza. Another thing taking on a bigger and equally as well equipped navy who have treaty support with the big boys.

Israel will not be let potentially break NATO up to stop humanitarian aid.

hatrickpatrick

the_syco wrote: »

An armed convoy bringing ships that are not allowed into Israeli waters, into Israeli waters.

It'd be in Israels best interests to have guns, missiles, etc, on the ships that are been escorted.

Gaza =/= in Israel. Gazan waters should not be considered "Israeli Waters". The Israeli government has not a single OUNCE of sovereignty over an inch of land outside its original pre 1967 border.

Foghladh

This has to be put in the context of a UN finding that the Gaza blockade is actually legal. If Turkey decides to break that embargo they may well find that the assured Nato backing may not come because Turkey would be an aggressor. I don't see that Israel can back down from any outside threat to them. They'd be toast

Matt Holck

so much trust we have in the cruelty of man

SlyBacon93

It would be interesting to see what the americans will do since American Israeli relations ar just as strong as NATO

LondonIrish90

vellocet wrote: »

And NATO has a legally binding mutual defence treaty with the Turks.

One thing bombing schools in the Gaza. Another thing taking on a bigger and equally as well equipped navy who have treaty support with the big boys.

Israel will not be let potentially break NATO up to stop humanitarian aid.

NATO membes agreed to a mutual defence policy. Should Turkey instigate a war with Israel, then they would in fact be the aggressor in the conflict and NATO would have to do nothing. After all, it wouldn't exactly be the collective defence that NATO was intended to ensure its members, would it?

NATO is a bit of a farce anyway. To think that Turkey would have the "support of the big boys" should this hypothetical situation pan out is simply wrong.

If you truly believe that Britain, the United States, France, Germany, Canada and so on will take up arms against one of their closest and most important allies on the intelligence war on terror is nuts.

Anyway, Turkey will do nothing. It would not be worth their while. The "big boys" as you call them would react rather unfavourably towards them, to say the least.

Added to that, this legally binding idea you have is well off the mark

Alopex

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

NATO membes agreed to a mutual defence policy. Should Turkey instigate a war with Israel, then they would in fact be the aggressor in the conflict and NATO would have to do nothing. After all, it wouldn't exactly be the collective defence that NATO was intended to ensure its members, would it?

NATO is a bit of a farce anyway. To think that Turkey would have the "support of the big boys" should this hypothetical situation pan out is simply wrong.

If you truly believe that Britain, the United States, France, Germany, Canada and so on will take up arms against one of their closest and most important allies on the intelligence war on terror is nuts.

Anyway, Turkey will do nothing. It would not be worth their while. The "big boys" as you call them would react rather unfavourably towards them, to say the least.

Added to that, this legally binding idea you have is well off the mark

To be fair this is the long and short of it.

The notion that those countries would back Turkey ahead of Israel is beyond madness.

Maybe if France of the UK sent in the navy there'd be a dilemma. Turkey? not a fvcking hope

Chuck Stone

This probably a move by the Turks to put pressure on the US to urge the Israelis to relax their seige. I reckon Turkey has considerable clout with the US when it comes to international affairs.

I don't think that the Turkish ability to influence 'the west' should be misunderestimated (to borrow a G.W.Bushism.)

The people who will want a conflict the least are the Pentagon imo. Turkey is a strategic asset to to the US/NATO and is a balance point between 'east' and 'west'. There are geo-strategic implicatons for 'the west' if Turkey starts to look eastwards.

Turkey has an important NATO base which gives NATO a strong presence in the middle east.

Incirlik Air Base

Also, Turkey has the only oil pipeline to the Caspian (the BTC pipeline) which has a massive $12 trillion worth of oil that both Russia/China/Iran would like to control for themselves. 'The west' has serious interests in this energy corridor remaining within it's sphere of influence.

The success of the BTC pipeline was the culmination of consistent U.S. policies relating to Caspian Basin energy resources dating back from the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Policymakers understood the close connection between the great geopolitical and economic importance, not to mention the U.S. commercial interests, of the region. Both the Clinton and Bush Administrations realized that the eight new independent states (Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and Tajikistan) in this region of rich natural resources, would ultimately become market economies in an unstable region where demand for oil from India and China was, and still is, soaring. The US has since wanted to make sure that these resources are not under Russian hegemony and are available for business purposes to American companies.

Source

Manic Moran

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I'm pretty sure Egypt and Syria had inferior Soviet technology whereas if Israel fights Turkey it's F-16 versus F-16 and M-1 tank versus M-1 tank. Also Turkey is a nation of 70 million people and to use Erdogan's words would come down on Israel like an earthquake..

In terms of equipment, the Turks are not nearly as well off. The story of the quest to have a competition for a replacement tank is filled with cancellation after cancellation due to money. The best tanks they have are cast offs from the German Army, the majority of their equipment is previous generation. Ironically, much of it has been upgraded by Israel, so you could be rest assured, for example, that the Isralis (whose oldest tanks are of similar vintage too the best Turkish ones) are in a great position to know of and take advantage of, say, the fire control systems of the Turkish Air Force's Phantom 2000s, because they designed and built them in the first place.

NTM

vellocet

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

NATO membes agreed to a mutual defence policy. Should Turkey instigate a war with Israel, then they would in fact be the aggressor in the conflict and NATO would have to do nothing. After all, it wouldn't exactly be the collective defence that NATO was intended to ensure its members, would it?

NATO is a bit of a farce anyway. To think that Turkey would have the "support of the big boys" should this hypothetical situation pan out is simply wrong.

If you truly believe that Britain, the United States, France, Germany, Canada and so on will take up arms against one of their closest and most important allies on the intelligence war on terror is nuts.

Anyway, Turkey will do nothing. It would not be worth their while. The "big boys" as you call them would react rather unfavourably towards them, to say the least.

Added to that, this legally binding idea you have is well off the mark

How exactly is Turkey 'instigating war' in this scenario?

vellocet

Alopex wrote: »

To be fair this is the long and short of it.

The notion that those countries would back Turkey ahead of Israel is beyond madness.

Maybe if France of the UK sent in the navy there'd be a dilemma. Turkey? not a fvcking hope

Lets hypothesie for a second.

Turkish navy boats come under fire in international waters protecting their merchant ships. The aggressor is Israel. Turkey invokes the NATO mutual defence clause and calls for all NATO members to diplomatically isolate Isreal. Are you saying the US and co will tell them to whistle?

It would be the end of NATO and you know it

tfitzgerald

This is bad news because israel will attack and then there sh1t would hit the fan the yanks would side with Israel while the rest if the middle east will go with turkey . NATO won't know what to do the uk has stretched it's forces so much it won't be able to do a thing so it will want to talk while at the sane time the israelies will be killing all round them and not giving a fcuk about anyone

anymore

tfitzgerald wrote: »

This is bad news because israel will attack and then there sh1t would hit the fan the yanks would side with Israel while the rest if the middle east will go with turkey . NATO won't know what to do the uk has stretched it's forces so much it won't be able to do a thing so it will want to talk while at the sane time the israelies will be killing all round them and not giving a fcuk about anyone

Well that is not quite true as now know that the Middle east is riven with divisions - as I have made the point numerous times before, the vast majority of muslim people who die violently in the area are actaully killed by fellow muslims. So the deaths caused by the israeli military are but a fraction of violent deaths but have of course been exaggerated by all the wode assortment of people and groups who find reason to atttach themsleves to a politically correct cause.
Indeed we also know that behind closed doors, some Arab government shave been very keen to encourage to take action against thier own arab enemies.

tfitzgerald

anymore wrote: »

Well that is not quite true as now know that the Middle east is riven with divisions - as I have made the point numerous times before, the vast majority of muslim people who die violently in the area are actaully killed by fellow muslims. So the deaths caused by the israeli military are but a fraction of violent deaths but have of course been exaggerated by all the wode assortment of people and groups who find reason to atttach themsleves to a politically correct cause.
Indeed we also know that behind closed doors, some Arab government shave been very keen to encourage to take action against thier own arab enemies.

Yes I agree some of the Arabic nations and Islamic sects hate each other and are happily killing each other. But they would all unite against israel at the moment just like the freedom fightersvare going to turn on NATO whom a lot of them see as a lackey of the U SA

Ping Chow Chi

tfitzgerald wrote: »

Yes I agree some of the Arabic nations and Islamic sects hate each other and are happily killing each other. But they would all unite against israel at the moment just like the freedom fightersvare going to turn on NATO whom a lot of them see as a lackey of the U SA

I dissagree, maybe there would be outcry on the streets of many Arabic nation, but I doubt there would be many heads of state foolish enough to engage in a costly war against a nation with nukes.

Surely the most Turkey could do is escourt the ships in international waters, I'm sure that the IDF would be happy enough to wait until the ships enterd Israel water.

OS119

vellocet wrote: »

How exactly is Turkey 'instigating war' in this scenario?

when you put a warship in your neighbours pond, you instigate war.

the recent UN report about the previous incident makes clear that Israels Naval blockade of Gaza is legal (whether people like it or not) under international law, therefore it follows that anyone using force to break that blockade is acting illegally.

put the whole sorry mess together - a broken friendship, with all the bitterness that that entails, two governments that don't do compromise, a legal blockade which the Israelis believe is vital to their national security, a threat to use force to break that blockade, and two sides that both believe that they have a significant back up from other nations - and you have very little that is a cause for celebration.