Traps future

mike65 · 06-09-2011 5:20pm #1

As I understand it Trapattonis contract will be extended if Ireland reach the play-offs albeit on a much reduced salary, his pay is currently thanks to Denis O'Briens generosity. If Ireland should get there would this be bad rather than good news? Might the FAI decide they have had enough lumpy football for the money?

If he walked who could replace him, I'm assuming Ireland comes a poor second after Iceland for Roy Keane;)

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2011 5:21pm

Trapp will be gone if we don't qualify (which we probably won't now), and there is no doubt that he has made mistakes. But this was our fourth competitive game in Moscow and our first point. We have yet to lose a competitive match away from home under his tenure.

Just like people were screaming for Ward to be played instead of Kilbane the last 2 years, they might be surprised at what comes after Trapp.

Wolfe Tone · 06-09-2011 5:24pm

I dont see how any other manager could do better with the team tbh.

WallyGUFC · 06-09-2011 5:26pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I dont see how any other manager could do better with the team tbh.

They could probably pick a better squad straight away and thus do better. Trap is the most stubborn person I've ever seen.

Insect Overlord · 06-09-2011 5:28pm

Seven clean sheets in a row is a magnificent record.

I don't know if it's worth sacrificing a more adventurous midfield though.

Bodhisopha · 06-09-2011 5:28pm

I can't wait to see the back of him, personally.

Blatter · 06-09-2011 5:30pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I dont see how any other manager could do better with the team tbh.

No, but they would pick a different team.

I refuse to believe that Keith Andrews and Glen Wheelan are the two best central midfielders that this country has to offer.

Playing the likes of Ward over Foley today was a joke. I know Foley's a right back by trade, but I'm convinced he would have been a better option than Ward.

And how Simon Cox is selected over Leon Best is beyond me. Best has 8 PL goals in his last 13 appearances for Newcastle. He is a far better option than Cox.

Joke.

whatawaster · 06-09-2011 5:31pm

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

I dont see how any other manager could do better with the team tbh.

Picking our best players would be a good start. Abandoning dated tactics and formations would help.

Actually going out and trying to win games is the big change we need to make. We saw when we went to Paris needing to win that Ireland, when motivated and given license to do so, can put it up to good teams.

We don't have great players and will not do much at any tournament we qualify for, but some positive football would be nice for a change.

eugeneious · 06-09-2011 5:33pm

IMO He's still the best man for the job. People will complain about today's performance being all defensive but thats why we need Trap because a lot of managers would have went out and got hammered by playing someone like McCarthy. 8 clean sheets is a fantastic record and IMO we will qualify. I don't see a better manager out there who could do a better job and would be within Ireland's reach.

Het-Field · 06-09-2011 5:34pm

Blatter wrote: »

No, but they would pick a different team.

I refuse to believe that Keith Andrews and Glen Wheelan are the two best central midfielders that this country has to offer.

Playing the likes of Ward over Foley today was a joke. I know Foley's a right back by trade, but I'm convinced he would have been a better option than Ward.

And how Simon Cox is selected over Leon Best is beyond me. Best has 8 PL goals in his last 13 appearances for Newcastle. He is a far better option than Cox.

Joke.

According to Eamonn Dunphy, Whelan is on his way to West Ham on loan (where I dont believe he will displace Noble/Nolan/Collison). Essentially, Stoke City have deemed him surplus to requirements. Blackburn Rovers have already passed such judgement on Andrews. Trappatoni really should be taking stock of such deliberations

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2011 5:35pm

Everyone thinks that a new manager will come in, pick a different squad, play a 4 - 5 - 1, and we'll start knocking the ball about and do better (where do better equals winning groups given our performances under Trapp).

I think they are completely deluded. Trapp has been stubborn, but he's taken a bunch of limited players and put them into a system that gives them a chance. A couple of better finishes in France and on Friday and the players would have taken it both times. We'd simply revisit Staunton's results if we do any different.

Hope I'm wrong mind.

whatawaster · 06-09-2011 5:37pm

eugeneious wrote: »

IMO He's still the best man for the job. People will complain about today's performance being all defensive but thats why we need Trap because a lot of managers would have went out and got hammered by playing someone like McCarthy. 8 clean sheets is a fantastic record and IMO we will qualify. I don't see a better manager out there who could do a better job and would be within Ireland's reach.

you think playing our best midfielder would have resulted in us being hammered?
Is that how football works?

Het-Field · 06-09-2011 5:38pm

It has always been mooted that Tardelli is the next in line for the job.

That would be interesting considering the alleged badgering of Trappatoni tonight!

SantryRed · 06-09-2011 5:39pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Everyone thinks that a new manager will come in, pick a different squad, play a 4 - 5 - 1, and we'll start knocking the ball about and do better (where do better equals winning groups given our performances under Trapp).

I think they are completely deluded. Trapp has been stubborn, but he's taken a bunch of limited players and put them into a system that gives them a chance. A couple of better finishes in France and on Friday and the players would have taken it both times. We'd simply revisit Staunton's results if we do any different.

Hope I'm wrong mind.

Seriously? I don't think it works. I think he has rode his luck ridiculously in nearly every draw we've had. Bulgaria home and away, Italy away, probably even at home. Slovakia away and at home. Russia home(should have lost 4 or 5-0) and away.

Then to the luckiness of home games too. A 1-0 win at home to Cyprus where they battered us for 70 mins. A 2-1 win at home to Georgia where if it wasn't for a ridiculous penalty decision for a peno which never was it would have finished 1-0 to the Georgians. Sure we even conceded at home to Andorra.

I personally think we've had more luck than being hard to beat. Once again tonight if a team could take their chances we'd have lost. We are in the exact same position as we were under Kerr but we look a sh1tload worse.

eugeneious · 06-09-2011 5:40pm

whatawaster wrote: »

you think playing our best midfielder would have resulted in us being hammered?
Is that how football works?

Yes. that Russia team would have had far too much space in midfield with James Mcarthy. If Mcarthy plays then you have to drop a striker imo and neither Doyle and certainly not Keane have shown they are half as good on their own up front.

tallaghtmick · 06-09-2011 5:41pm

We are a ****e football team get over it.

SantryRed · 06-09-2011 5:42pm

eugeneious wrote: »

Yes. that Russia team would have had far too much space in midfield with James Mcarthy. If Mcarthy plays then you have to drop a striker imo and neither Doyle and certainly not Keane have shown they are half as good on their own up front.

Holy fcuk.

The whole reason we got over ran and destroyed so much today was because we only had 2 in midfield. A striker needed to be poxy dropped from the get go.

whatawaster · 06-09-2011 5:44pm

eugeneious wrote: »

Yes. that Russia team would have had far too much space in midfield with James Mcarthy. If Mcarthy plays then you have to drop a striker imo and neither Doyle and certainly not Keane have shown they are half as good on their own up front.

How do you know, Trap never plays them up front on their own?
Doyle, certainly, has all the tools required to lead the line imo.

A midfield trio and Duff and McGeady supporting Doyle is definitely our best option. To compete with other teams playing 4231/451 we need more bodies in midfield.

Mr.Nice Guy · 06-09-2011 5:44pm

I'd like him to get a new contract even if we don't make the play-offs. I think we have had a very good 2011. I remember under the last regime when we weren't even competitive whereas at least Trap has us in the mix, and with the poorest central midfield first choice pairing I can recall in my time as a supporter.

I think he could make better selections but some supporters in this country hype up our potential way too much, i.e. the clamour for Andy Reid, McCarthy etc.

We have no world class outfield performers (though Dunne put in a world class performance today) and we NEED this system which hides our weaknesses and accentuates the positives. While I am concerned at his rigidity and inflexibility at times when the system doesn't work, ultimately I don't feel we have better alternatives out there to take the job.

Keep the faith.

Mr. Incognito · 06-09-2011 5:46pm

Threads like this come up all the time and have led me to one sad conclusion.

People are idiots.

They let their imaginations and emotions get the best of them.

Trap has taken broadly the same squad that got hammered by CYPRUS!! to one that has just kept Russia out- A team whose Bench is littered with stars.

Slovakia and Russia have players that are better have better ability, are better technically, have more experience, have more of a talent pool and yet we only lost one game in four to teams ranked far far above us.

Added to this we have been consistent in beating teams ranked below us- which no other manager in my living lifetime has been able to achieve.

Ireland are crap. Accept it. What Trap has done is nothing short of remarkable, and he has done it - in Italy, Germany, Switzerland and anywhere else he has been.

Instead of being informed and knowledge people listen to idiots like Dubphy who doesn't even know that if Russia and Slovakia draw we are out.

We almost beat France, we almost beat Slovakia the other night and we SHOULD have won both games. We were just unlucky.

And yet the rabble begrudgers brigade come out of the woodwork. Idiots. SHEEP!

tolosenc · 06-09-2011 5:47pm

People seem to think:
1. McCarthy is brilliant, and
2. McCarthy is the answer to our prayers

Regards the first one, he plays for a team that finished in the bottom 5 in the last 2 seasons, with no hint of even a mid-table team looking to buy him, i.e. He's not exactly brilliant. He may well be a technically better player than the 2 we have now, but his attitude off the pitch doesn't lead me to believe that he'd do the job on the pitch.

Regards the second one, people were crying out for Ward to play. He has been dire in the last 2 games, and, quite frankly, we'd actually have done better had Killer been fit to play.

whatawaster · 06-09-2011 5:47pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I'd like him to get a new contract even if we don't make the play-offs. I think we have had a very good 2011. I remember under the last regime when we weren't even competitive whereas at least Trap has us in the mix, and with the poorest central midfield first choice pairing I can recall in my time as a supporter.

I think he could make better selections but some supporters in this country hype up our potential way too much, i.e. the clamour for Andy Reid, McCarthy etc.

We have no world class outfield performers (though Dunne put in a world class performance today) and we NEED this system which hides our weaknesses and accentuates the positives. While I am concerned at his rigidity and inflexibility at times when the system doesn't work, ultimately I don't feel we have better alternatives out there to take the job.

Keep the faith.

And 100 Keith Andrews caps later . . .

No thanks

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2011 5:48pm

SantryRed wrote: »

Seriously? I don't think it works. I think he has rode his luck ridiculously in nearly every draw we've had. Bulgaria home and away, Italy away, probably even at home. Slovakia away and at home. Russia home(should have lost 4 or 5-0) and away.

Then to the luckiness of home games too. A 1-0 win at home to Cyprus where they battered us for 70 mins. A 2-1 win at home to Georgia where if it wasn't for a ridiculous penalty decision for a peno which never was it would have finished 1-0 to the Georgians. Sure we even conceded at home to Andorra.

I personally think we've had more luck than being hard to beat. Once again tonight if a team could take their chances we'd have lost. We are in the exact same position as we were under Kerr but we look a sh1tload worse.

That was fine by me. People assumed we were better than our results then, and apparently haven't learned a thing since.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 06-09-2011 5:48pm

Away performances are good.
Home performances are diabolical

SantryRed · 06-09-2011 5:50pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Threads like this come up all the time and have led me to one sad conclusion.

People are idiots.

They let their imaginations and emotions get the best of them.

Trap has taken broadly the same squad that got hammered by CYPRUS!! to one that has just kept Russia out- A team whose Bench is littered with stars.

Slovakia and Russia have players that are better have better ability, are better technically, have more experience, have more of a talent pool and yet we only lost one game in four to teams ranked far far above us.

Added to this we have been consistent in beating teams ranked below us- which no other manager in my living lifetime has been able to achieve.
]dge people listen to idiots like Dubphy who doesn't even know that if Russia and Slovakia draw we are out.

We almost beat France, we almost beat Slovakia the other night and we SHOULD have won both games. We were just unlucky.

:pac:

This is deluded. Just because Staunton was so fcuking bad doesn't mean the players were. Also, we did not nearly beat Slovakia last night. They dominated for large parts of the game and had their own chances too.

whatawaster · 06-09-2011 5:51pm

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Trap has taken broadly the same squad that got hammered by CYPRUS!!

And we were played off the park by Cyprus AT HOME under Trap, and should have been well beaten.

We have been blessed under his regime at times imo

SantryRed · 06-09-2011 5:51pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

That was fine by me. People assumed we were better than our results then, and apparently haven't learned a thing since.

I never assumed we were better than our results then. But by god, we were a hell of a lot better in our performances.

eugeneious · 06-09-2011 5:53pm

whatawaster wrote: »

How do you know, Trap never plays them up front on their own?
Doyle, certainly, has all the tools required to lead the line imo.

A midfield trio and Duff and McGeady supporting Doyle is definitely our best option. To compete with other teams playing 4231/451 we need more bodies in midfield.

Mcarthy is an average player right now so I don't see how dropping our all time top goalscorer and the striker who still regularly pops up with the vital goals and playing an extremely overrated midfielder who isn't even a guaranteed starter for Wigan.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2011 5:54pm

Seriously, we were through this six years ago. These conversations are the same as were had back then. So many were sure that Kerr had to go, his tactics were too conservative, the wrong players were being picked blah, blah, blah.

For sure, people will argue that this time is different, that the players not being picked now really are the second coming, that we really could be Spain this time round.

Once bitten, twice shy? Apparently not. You can only shrug your shoulders and hope for some justice between now and the final whistle against Armenia.

SantryRed · 06-09-2011 5:55pm

eugeneious wrote: »

Mcarthy is an average player right now so I don't see how dropping our all time top goalscorer and the striker who still regularly pops up with the vital goals and playing an extremely overrated midfielder who isn't even a guaranteed starter for Wigan.

Keith, FCUKING, Andrews.

Mr. Incognito · 06-09-2011 5:56pm

SantryRed wrote: »

I never assumed we were better than our results then. But by god, we were a hell of a lot better in our performances.

double-facepalm&docid=uD9Iqd6PUJV_jM&w=640&h=512&ei=lF5mTo2zDonm-galkZzoDg&zoom=1&biw=883&bih=438&iact=rc&dur=16&page=1&tbnh=127&tbnw=172&start=0&ndsp=8&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0&tx=90&ty=71

SantryRed · 06-09-2011 5:57pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Seriously, we were through this six years ago. These conversations are the same as were had back then. So many were sure that Kerr had to go, his tactics were too conservative, the wrong players were being picked blah, blah, blah.

For sure, people will argue that this time is different, that the players not being picked now really are the second coming, that we really could be Spain this time round.

Once bitten, twice shy? Apparently not. You can only shrug your shoulders and hope for some justice between now and the final whistle against Armenia.

But Lloyd. Our performances under Kerr were a hell of a lot better. When we had a must win against the Swiss, we actually attacked. And if it wasn't for a poxy late goal in Israel and the 2-0 lead we fcuked away at home, we'd have topped the group. When you look at Trap's performances, we've been lucky to get to where we are. Whereas under Kerr, we were unlucky not to progress further.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2011 5:57pm

SantryRed wrote: »

I never assumed we were better than our results then. But by god, we were a hell of a lot better in our performances.

*Shrugs* Kerr was unlucky and people didn't care, they strung up anyway. Trapp is lucky, and people gonna string him up.

Since we last qualified for a major tournament we've had five campaigns, and our level of results are as good as they've ever been, performances be damned. The grass won't be greener I'm afraid.

eugeneious · 06-09-2011 6:00pm

A question for those who would like to see him gone, who do you want to replace him?

steelcityblues · 06-09-2011 6:07pm

eugeneious wrote: »

A question for those who would like to see him gone, who do you want to replace him?

Someone who can find his way to a Premier League stadium, and learn English.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 06-09-2011 6:12pm

eugeneious wrote: »

Mcarthy is an average player right now so I don't see how dropping our all time top goalscorer and the striker who still regularly pops up with the vital goals and playing an extremely overrated midfielder who isn't even a guaranteed starter for Wigan.

Your bias for Trap is causing you to make up stuff, especially the bolded

McCarthy starts every week for Wigan. If you are referring to last week he still wasn't quite right after an ankle injury.

WallyGUFC · 06-09-2011 6:16pm

eugeneious wrote: »

A question for those who would like to see him gone, who do you want to replace him?

Big Mick or Brian Kerr I'd have back in a heartbeat but they wouldn't want it. Someone who is willing to actually make an effort, and someone who can communicate in a basic sense with his players. Trap is lazy and stubborn, and we will not qualify.

eugeneious · 06-09-2011 6:17pm

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Your bias for Trap is causing you to make up stuff, especially the bolded

McCarthy starts every week for Wigan. If you are referring to last week he still wasn't quite right after an ankle injury.

He only made 24apps for Wigan last season. I don't see how I'm "making stuff up". My main point is, there is no manager out there that we could get and would be a step up from Trap.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 06-09-2011 6:19pm

eugeneious wrote: »

Heonly made 24apps for Wigan last season. I don't see how I'm "making stuff up". My main point is, there is no manager out there that we could get and would be a step up from Trap.

Ever heard of these little things called injuries? Fabrice Muamba nearly broke his ankle and he was out for months. When fit, he always starts.

AgileMyth · 06-09-2011 6:22pm

tolosenc wrote: »

People seem to think:
1. McCarthy is brilliant, and
2. McCarthy is the answer to our prayers

Regards the first one, he plays for a team that finished in the bottom 5 in the last 2 seasons, with no hint of even a mid-table team looking to buy him, i.e. He's not exactly brilliant. He may well be a technically better player than the 2 we have now, but his attitude off the pitch doesn't lead me to believe that he'd do the job on the pitch.

Regards the second one, people were crying out for Ward to play. He has been dire in the last 2 games, and, quite frankly, we'd actually have done better had Killer been fit to play.

The piece in bold puts him a clear level ahead of our two current central midfielders.

What we're crying out for now is David Meyler, similiar style of player to Whelan/Andrews, except hes actually good. We need him fit.

eugeneious · 06-09-2011 6:22pm

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Ever heard of these little things called injuries? Fabrice Muamba nearly broke his ankle and he was out for months. When fit, he always starts.

No never heard of injuries at all :rolleyes: . The point is Mcarthy imo isn't good enough to justify dropping keane/doyle and imo we'd be miles to open to play him in a 2 man midfield.

Raskolnikov · 06-09-2011 6:24pm

tolosenc wrote: »

People seem to think:
1. McCarthy is brilliant, and
2. McCarthy is the answer to our prayers

McCarthy is one thing, but the clamour for Keith Fahey to be playing is even more ridiculous. Do people really think that a reserve Championship player is going to play that Russian team off the park?

JPA · 06-09-2011 6:26pm

Nobody is mentioning the positives of Trappatoni?

We would never be as good defensively under another manager.

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2011 6:27pm

AgileMyth wrote: »

The piece in bold puts him a clear level ahead of our two current central midfielders.

Eh, you are not paying attention. Whelan started the first three premiership games of the season for Stoke, and Andrews has been first choice at Ipswich.

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 06-09-2011 6:34pm

eugeneious wrote: »

No never heard of injuries at all :rolleyes: . The point is Mcarthy imo isn't good enough to justify dropping keane/doyle and imo we'd be miles to open to play him in a 2 man midfield.

An extra central midfielder is needed to stop us being overrun constantly and McCarthy is quality to boot. Yes, I would drop one of the strikers - Keane and Doyle are both good players but it's needed for the greater good. The dilemma of which one is another question: Keane gets more goals but Doyle has thrived in the lone man role at Wolves. Toughy.

Sadly, I don't think Trap will change the system though.

SantryRed · 06-09-2011 6:38pm

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

An extra central midfielder is needed to stop us being overrun constantly and McCarthy is quality to boot. Yes, I would drop one of the strikers - Keane and Doyle are both good players but it's needed for the greater good. The dilemma of which one is another question: Keane gets more goals but Doyle has thrived in the lone man role at Wolves. Toughy.

Sadly, I don't think Trap will change the system though.

The system doesn't need to be changed any more. Already fcuked up our last two games. Regardless of getting two draws. Two games were an attacking 4-4-2 is needed up next.

Yakult · 06-09-2011 6:48pm

I don't think we will get better than Trap given the team we have.

He doesn't play attractive football but then again look at the team, he cant really with the players we have.
Serious lack of quality and a few who should NOT be playing international level.

We are playing the best system we can given the players on the pitch and what Trap has done is a very good job in which most managers would not have achieved near the same.

Whats pisses me off more is the poor football culture in Ireland, highly portrayed by our team. Why aren't we producing good players capable of International level?
Where is it all going wrong? Poor coaching at youth levels, unable to grow player potentials? I hate to think what the team will be like when Given, Dunne, Duff and to an extent Keane are gone...

IRISHSPORTSGUY · 06-09-2011 6:50pm

SantryRed wrote: »

The system doesn't need to be changed any more. Already fcuked up our last two games. Regardless of getting two draws. Two games were an attacking 4-4-2 is needed up next.

4-5-1 isn't necessarily negative despite the title. I think we'd be more fluid in attack, in fact.

WallyGUFC · 06-09-2011 6:52pm

But we have technically better players that aren't being picked by Trap that's the thing. How can you defend him when there are better players not even making the squad? Unbelievable.

AstonMartin · 06-09-2011 6:59pm

What is the opinion on tardelli?

LuckyLloyd · 06-09-2011 7:01pm

WallyGUFC wrote: »

But we have technically better players that aren't being picked by Trap that's the thing. How can you defend him when there are better players not even making the squad? Unbelievable.

Those players won't prove to be as good as you think they are. Stephen Ward is a very topical example of the disconnect between perception and reality as far as this is concerned...

Traps future

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