Should 22 be the minimim age for starting college?

IvaBigWun

Some advantages:

1. People will gain life experience before starting.
2. As they will be a bit more mature they will have a better idea about what they want to do.
3. Less of the heavy drinking student culture.
4. Students will have a chance to work in the real world which will shape their minds before starting. It will also give them the chance to build up some savings to contribute to their own education, resulting in slightly less cost for the rest of us.
5. Lecturers will have an easier job teaching more mature students. People in their 40's or above won't feel intimidated joining a class full of hormonal 19 year olds.

Thoughts?

Creamy Goodness

most people wouldn't bother going then, they'll be off doing manual labour jobs* and then claiming the dole when their 'back is put out'.

*not that there's anything wrong with manual labour jobs and the people who do them

alwaysadub

So what are people meant to do for the 4 or so years after finishing school with no qualifications?

minidazzler

Yes, because I am a drop-out who quit because I had no idea we were expected to work ourselves. Teachers walked us through everything in school time and time again, but never told us what college would be like, and since I was the first in my family to go I had noone to ask.

So yeah, you should have an enforced year or two out.

fulhamfanincork

You'll just have loads more people on the dole for the next 4/5 years until they are 22.

Big Nasty

I'm not too sure - with some courses people could be 30 coming out of college. Then again filling out CAO / CAS forms that could decide the direction of your life at 16 / 17 is wrong too. Not too many kids know where they want to go with their lives at that age.

pockets3d

Whats the point in being 18+ (an adult) if you can't even go on to higher education.
This is worse than clubs for over 23s pure ageism joe.
What are people 18 to 22 supposed to do that want to go to college for 4 years?
Work ? in this economic climate with no experience?

RoyalMarine

and what do us creepy older mature students do with no hormonal 18/19 year old students around

IvaBigWun

alwaysadub wrote: »

So what are people meant to do for the 4 or so years after finishing school with no qualifications?

Travel. Experience. More travel.

AhSureTisGrand

If this minimum age was worth it then people would be voluntarily delaying college anyway.

woodoo

alwaysadub wrote: »

So what are people meant to do for the 4 or so years after finishing school with no qualifications?

It would make anti social behavior even worse.

omahaid

I was a moron in secondary school and failed pretty much everything, went out working in a menial job and went to college as a mature student at 23, got a 1:1.

So there is some merit to a couple of years of soul destroying work to motivate someone to study in college...

jive

No. If you want to go on a study further by the time you get a PhD you'll be dead.

In fact, this is one of the dumbest threads I've ever seen. Also collecting the dole wouldn't be much of a life experience for many people.

Mike 1972

This must make the shortlist for the daftest idea ever posted on boards

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Travel. Experience. More travel.

What about 18 year olds whose families dont have a pot to piss in and can barely afford to send their kids to college as things stand.

You expect them to fund a five yar holiday/pi$$ up as well FFS

Aoifey!

Some people know exactly what they want to do leaving school, others do not. It's not fair to make the people who know what they want to wait until the others get some sort of idea.

MrStuffins

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Travel. Experience. More travel.

Have you been living in a hole for the past few years?

In what universe can 18 year old school leavers afford to travel the world for 4 years? Do you think their parents have the money?

Jaysus! :rolleyes:

alwaysadub

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Travel. Experience. More travel.

Not everyone can afford to travel for a few years

Aoifey!

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Travel. Experience. More travel.

With what money?

Overheal

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Some advantages:

1. People will gain life experience before starting.
2. As they will be a bit more mature they will have a better idea about what they want to do.
3. Less of the heavy drinking student culture.
4. Students will have a chance to work in the real world which will shape their minds before starting. It will also give them the chance to build up some savings to contribute to their own education, resulting in slightly less cost for the rest of us.
5. Lecturers will have an easier job teaching more mature students. People in their 40's or above won't feel intimidated joining a class full of hormonal 19 year olds.

Thoughts?

The two bolded terms are not unrelated in my disagreement. I agree with everything else but wouldn't I be much better off going to college at 22,23,24 next to all these 18 and 19 year olds??

MrStuffins

If 19 year old students arent out in Coppers locked every night, there will be a sharp increase in mistreatment to the public from Garda due to the heightened sexual frustration!

Dravokivich

huh... kinda like an extended gap year?

fedor.2.

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

most people wouldn't bother going then, they'll be off doing manual labour jobs* and then claiming the dole when their 'back is put out'.

*not that there's anything wrong with manual labour jobs and the people who do them

Good one:rolleyes:

partyatmygaff

What exactly is the point of taking a 4/5 year break between secondary school and college?

Spending 4/5 years "traveling" (Transnational pub crawl more like) and working menial jobs instead of using the time to further your education is a daft idea.

--LOS--

no way, I started young, 17, had a lot of setbacks in between, I feel bad enough still there at my age now, but it's better than being even older

tatabubbly

I went to college at 17 and tbh, it was the best thing I did, I was too young to drink and when I turned 18 I loved my course and wanted to finish it with high marks,

Now I've just turned 23 and completed a masters.

People have this view that everyone goes to college to drink/drugs etc.. but in my experience for us poor science students that wasn't the case! Compulsory labs and tutorials puts that out the window!

fedor.2.

tatabubbly wrote: »

I went to college at 17 and tbh, it was the best thing I did, I was too young to drink and when I turned 18 I loved my course and wanted to finish it with high marks,

Now I've just turned 23 and completed a masters.

People have this view that everyone goes to college to drink/drugs etc.. but in my experience for us poor science students that wasn't the case! Compulsory labs and tutorials puts that out the window!

Ya nerd

number10a

I don't think that there should be a minimum age on going to college, but there definitely should not be as much pressure on Leaving Certs to go straight to college after school.

A lot of people have no idea what they want to do at that age, sign up for something they're half-interested in and then drop out and end up paying full fees for first year when they do decide to go back and do what they actually wanted to study. Many others become wasters for all of first year smoking everything that has ever grown and drinking a small lake every week, and fail and cannot afford to go back. Others again actually do attend classes but see it as a chore like school and talk the whole way through the lecture disrupting those who actually want to be there. Less pressure on the 18 year olds and a lot of this wouldn't happen.

Those who want to study will. Those who don't might still do it, but are a bit less likely making life a little better for us all.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Perhaps 20 or 21, yes, but no older than that. As for the objections:

alwaysadub wrote: »

So what are people meant to do for the 4 or so years after finishing school with no qualifications?

Get jobs. Do a bit of travel. Mature. get experience.

pockets3d wrote: »

Whats the point in being 18+ (an adult) if you can't even go on to higher education.
This is worse than clubs for over 23s pure ageism joe.
What are people 18 to 22 supposed to do that want to go to college for 4 years?
Work ? in this economic climate with no experience?

Again travel. Doesn't have to be on a four-star luxary liner around the world.
Backpack. Couchsurf. Rideshare. Go on a working holiday. Ireland#s is not the only economic climate out there.

fulhamfanincork wrote: »

You'll just have loads more people on the dole for the next 4/5 years until they are 22.

I like the optimsm here. Unless you're sayign that every 18-22 year old who hasn't gone to collge is on the dole?

Mike 1972 wrote: »

This must make the shortlist for the daftest idea ever posted on boards



What about 18 year olds whose families dont have a pot to piss in and can barely afford to send their kids to college as things stand.

You expect them to fund a five yar holiday/pi$$ up as well FFS

Two words, Mike: Working Holiday. As I said, we're not talking expensive junkets here.

Again, there are a lot of 18-22 year olds who decided not to bother with college who have gone off and travelled with very little cash. Working here and there along the way. And it's probably a better teacher than hanging around here waiting for four years to pass.

MrStuffins

I actually did what the OP is talking about. Did my Leaving Cert, worked a crap job for 3 years, started college at 21, only thing it did was made me realise if I didnt pass my degree i'd end up in another **** job!

I have no idea what the hell travel would teach me at that age except that mammy and daddy will give me what I want whenever I want!

IvaBigWun

How many people have gone straight to college at 18, rushed into doing a course and then realised 4 years later they wanted to do/study something else?

Thousands I would imagine.

cooperguy

Some advantages:

1. People will gain life experience before starting.
   Some people need more life experience some dont. Dont force everybody to move at the speed of the slowest.
2. As they will be a bit more mature they will have a better idea about what they want to do.
   Again because some people dont know what they want to do why should everybody else suffer
3. Less of the heavy drinking student culture.
   Instead 19 year olds will have jobs and even more money to spend on drink
4. Students will have a chance to work in the real world which will shape their minds before starting. It will also give them the chance to build up some savings to contribute to their own education, resulting in slightly less cost for the rest of us.
   Again with the shaping minds/immature thing. Why should everybody move at the pace of the slowest! Education costs are also going up anyway to reduce the cost to the taxpayer
5. Lecturers will have an easier job teaching more mature students. People in their 40's or above won't feel intimidated joining a class full of hormonal 19 year olds.
   Have you ever been to college? I dont see how the lecturers job would be any easier. Its not like there is food fights in the classroom. People who want to work show up for class those who dont, dont.
   And as for the 40 year olds they are big girls and boys and take care of themselves. If thats whats stopping them go to college then they have bigger problems.

Aoifey!

IvaBigWun wrote: »

How many people have gone straight to college at 18, rushed into doing a course and then realised 4 years later they wanted to do/study something else?

Thousands I would imagine.

And I'd say even more have went in and been perfectly happy with what they picked.

MrStuffins

IvaBigWun wrote: »

How many people have gone straight to college at 18, rushed into doing a course and then realised 4 years later they wanted to do/study something else?

Thousands I would imagine.

Yeah, and how many havent? How many have thought long and hard abotu what they wanted to study during their teens and gone on to make a go of it?

Just because there's a few who procrastinate, doesn't mean everyone should be forced onto the dole at 18 (which would realistically happen)

Jam

Could always go down the Israeli route, mandatory military service. Before or after college. Gives those who do not know what to do a few years grind, discipline and experience. Those that do can postpone it until afterwards and apply their qualifaction to it.

Just tossing the thought out there.

I like a few others went late, spent four years slogging in a warehouse. Got out while the going was good in 2007, finished top of my class, 1:1. I was an average LC student. The few years definitely did me good.

Kinetic^

Another well thought out plan, Cowen is that you?

Ally Dick

IvaBigWun wrote: »

Some advantages:

1. People will gain life experience before starting.
   

Thoughts?

People will sit on walls drinking flagons of cider, making nuisances of themselves, between the ages of 16 and 22

Pherekydes

alwaysadub wrote: »

So what are people meant to do for the 4 or so years after finishing school with no qualifications?

College does not qualify you for anything. You'll always need experience and/or company approval.

GLaDOS

Aoifey! wrote: »

And I'd say even more have went in and been perfectly happy with what they picked.

Absolutely, I'm going into the 4th year of a course I really enjoy with a decent idea of what I want to do after. If I had to wait til I was 22, I'd be starting 1st year next year.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

MrStuffins wrote: »

I actually did what the OP is talking about. Did my Leaving Cert, worked a crap job for 3 years, started college at 21, only thing it did was made me realise if I didnt pass my degree i'd end up in another **** job!

I have no idea what the hell travel would teach me at that age except that mammy and daddy will give me what I want whenever I want!

So you come from a rich family where they tried to teach you the value of work, but you still learnt nothing?

EarlERizer

I like the national service/mandatory military service idea, I think all school leavers should be made to do it!

Sarah?

It might be a nice idea, but really it'd never work. The 4 or 5 year gap would be far too long, and many would just go on the dole for it. Plus for people who are mature enough to go to college at 17/18 it would be a massive waste. And for anyone doing 6 to 8 years in college it would be pretty terrible too.

I think one gap year after school to gain work experience and decide on what career you want would be an excellent idea though (if people on a gap year were excluded from the dole).

Surely a gap year would reduce the number of dropouts in first year of college too. It'd allow for loads of time to look into various college courses, so students would be sure about the course they want!

Outkast_IRE

I will be honest its just my own experience here.

I did my leaving at 17 and didnt know what to pick for the cao, i ended up in a course i didnt like at all .

I left the course shortly afterwards and immediately begun an apprenticeship in plumbing , during which i matured a hell of a lot, did very tough hard manual labor in industrial plumbing for 2 years then 3 years of domestic plumbing , i did well in every exam i took to get my trade papers which i recieved early this year.

I am now back in college this year to hopefully achieve a degree in building services engineering (a area very much related to plumbing in some aspects)

Im going to attack this course like a mofo and do my very best in every subject, there is no way i would of seen this as an area i would end up in but im glad i took the long route to it and discovered that i like it.

Each to their own , but it would be nice to have more than two weeks work experience in transition year to help decide .
Hell i would be all for giving alot of transition year over to a longer work experience scheme .

A Primal Nut

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

Perhaps 20 or 21, yes, but no older than that. As for the objections:



Get jobs. Do a bit of travel. Mature. get experience.



Again travel. Doesn't have to be on a four-star luxary liner around the world.
Backpack. Couchsurf. Rideshare. Go on a working holiday. Ireland#s is not the only economic climate out there.


[qoute]
I like the optimsm here. Unless you're sayign that every 18-22 year old who hasn't gone to collge is on the dole?

I'm glad I went go to college for four years and then got a professional job; than work in a supermarket for four years, then go to college; then start working. I'm 25 now and if I followed your route I would still be broke. I like having money too much.

A greater percentage of people who didn't go to college are on the dole than among those who did.

Two words, Mike: Working Holiday. As I said, we're not talking expensive junkets here.

Again, there are a lot of 18-22 year olds who decided not to bother with college who have gone off and travelled with very little cash. Working here and there along the way. And it's probably a better teacher than hanging around here waiting for four years to pass.

Going to college doesn't stop you from travelling. I did it - lots of people did it. There are five months off during summer and you can also take a year out. Why stop people from taking this option?

In fact going to college earlier makes travelling a lot easier; you can finally earn some money, save up and go travelling.

It's nice to go travelling but it doesn't teach you anything about working that you can't learn in Ireland. The earlier you start working the easier it is to adapt.

Look, if a few individuals want to stay around and doss for a few years thats their choice but for the rest of us, allow us to do what we want.

A Primal Nut

IvaBigWun wrote: »

How many people have gone straight to college at 18, rushed into doing a course and then realised 4 years later they wanted to do/study something else?

Thousands I would imagine.

And how many people went straight to college at 18, thought a lot about doing a course, done it, and then got a decent job and are happy enough? Much more than in your example!

I don't see how mature students are any more likely to do a course relevant to what they want to do in life, than 18-year-olds.

df1985

i was 17 starting, i didnt have a clue what i wanted to do, to ask a 17 yr old to decide a major factor in the course of their life is too young in my opinion.

GLaDOS

df1985 wrote: »

i was 17 starting, i didnt have a clue what i wanted to do, to ask a 17 yr old to decide a major factor in the course of their life is too young in my opinion.

Nobody forced you to make that decision at 17.

Also I was 17 filling in my CAO as I'm sure many others were, some people know what they want to do before others.

goose2005

EarlERizer wrote: »

I like the national service/mandatory military service idea, I think all school leavers should be made to do it!

Total waste of time and money.

Honestly, I don't really see why older people hate the young with such intensity.

eirn

I went to college at 18. I picked a college course based on the subjects I liked at school, probably because that was the only life experience I'd had!

The career guidance I received at the time was worse than useless.

If I was older, and had lived a bit, things would have been different. I would almost certainly have done a more practical course for a start.
I would have been more mature, and had a better set of priorities. Academically, I was ready for college, but emotionally I was probably still a bit young and unsure of myself. A third level education is a huge privilege, not a god given right, I didn't get that when I was a teenager!

For me, one of the best things about college was studying abroad.
For the first time in my life I was totally on my own, not surrounded by old friends, and without the option of popping home whenever I wanted.
I matured a huge amount, and it really helped me to develop some confidence in myself.

A lot of other international students were really surprised at how young kids start school in Ireland.
I think it's great that the age for starting school will be raised, even though I know it's a hassle for parents. In general, the older a child is starting primary, the better they do.
I think it would be more useful to look at implementing proper child care, and delaying the age at which children enter the formal education system.

I don't think it would do any harm for school leavers to have a year out after school. To either do a one year plc course, internship, voluntary service, etc. But I don't think too many 18 year olds would be up for that! And in fairness, the CAO choices this year reflected more practical choices than those made by us boom babies!

MrStuffins

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

So you come from a rich family where they tried to teach you the value of work, but you still learnt nothing?

And how exactly did you come to that conclusion Columbo? :rolleyes:

I didn't mean MY mammy and daddy would give me anything!

I come from a very poor family. Working after my Leaving Cert was from necessity. Luckily I was in a position at 21 where I could go to college and fulfill my potential. Otherwise I would've continued to work where I was, would've ended up out of the job because the place folded and i would've been scratching the dole for the foreseeable future like all of my former workmates who can't get a sniff of a job these days!

Overflow

I think a change in our education system is what is needed. If it was changed so you studied for a vocation instead of the leaving certificate for university we would have a employable work force straight out of school with real world skills, these graduates could then gain some real work experience for a few years and then choose if they wish to study to enter university.

At the moment nearly everyone is going to university which will leave us with a highly qualified bunch of graduates with no work experience, who may not have even wanted to go to university but felt they had to because our education system conditions students into it.

Valentina

I was 17 when I started in university. I really didn't know what was ahead of me in terms of studying and assignments and didn't do as well as I think I could have. I'd love to go back to college now that I'm that bit older and wiser and really make a go of it. I'd also choose a different course and college.

Some people might know at 17/18/19 what they want to do for the test of their lives but I sure didn't.