lift heavy but no burn???

xgtdec

So im on a builing muscle phase and im doing it right..i think...im eating loads...of good stuff, eggs, turkey, greens,fish etc, and im lifting as heavy as i can for 5x5....

but for what ever reason i can not feel "the burn" as i used to know it,

to try explain it better its like this: i have a very definitive point where the set stops, its like i lift for one -two-three--then ---nope cant lift 4...but at no point is there a burn is my muscles, to get the burn i have to drop back the weight and go with sets of 8-12, so as an example im doing tricep pushdowns and im doing 5x5 starting on 90kg and up 5 at a time so last set is on 115 x 5, and i finish it, but at no time does it feel like im "pumping it out"....its hard work...but it doesnt burn, but if i drop to say 70-80 and try 8-12...then we get the gritted teeth and snorting and the ouch it burns


so.....should it be burning to be building? has anyone come across this sort of definitive stop point?

wersal gummage

I'm not really qualified to comment but I often train in a similar way, 5 to 6 reps on very heavy weight for maybe 5 sets.

I find this works best on compound type lifts, little things like triceps push downs I could never lift heavy enough to only be able to do 5 and feel fatigued so I'd stick with maybe 10 reps on that but would first do dips with body weight plus 20kg dumbell between my feet 5x5.

Same with calf raises, after squatting and full leg and lower back work out, if I'm doing calls it would be sets of 15.

Dathai

Can't really read your post too well but ehm..you'll nearly always get a better "burn" at higher reps 10+. 5 reps isn't much for lashing on muscle.

jive

You won't feel the burn unless you are doing high reps. Do 500 bicep curls with 2kg and you'll feel a burn but it won't do much for you. If you are aiming to build muscle then I'd suggest doing 8-12 reps, especially when doing things like tricep pull downs. Judging from your post you are relatively new to the weight lifting game and I would suggest not doing such heavy work on triceps as it's a great way to get tendinitis!

xgtdec

well i do come from a "fat burning" backround....i had loads to lose and its lost...apart from the middle:)

im just so used to 8-12 for 3 sets for fat burn its hard to know sometimes thats all.

kevpants

The burn means nothing.

Continue lifting to the maximum.

xgtdec

now im lost:o

Mellor

The burn in your muscles, or DOMS the next day isn't a sign that you are doing a good working out. A definitive failing after 3 or 4 without feeling much is normal.

Are you trying to get stronger? Then keep doing 5x5
Tring to getting stronger AND bigger? Then keep doing 5x5
Trying to get bigger but aren't concerned about strength increases, then do 8-10 reps.

Lanaier

Wow I seriously never knew this...I always thought if i didn't feel the burn my form was off.

Thanks.

ridonkulous

Mellor wrote: »

DOMS the next day isn't a sign that you are doing a good working out.

Is DOMS not a sign of muscle damage and therefore not the whole idea behind a workout?

Zamboni

ridonkulous wrote: »

Is DOMS not a sign of muscle damage and therefore not the whole idea behind a workout?

That's not what he said.

ridonkulous

Zamboni wrote: »

That's not what he said.

Well I read it that he was saying POMS doesn't necessarily mean you have done a good workout. IMO if you cause muscle damage you have done a good workout.

Zamboni

ridonkulous wrote: »

Well I read it that he was saying POMS doesn't necessarily mean you have done a good workout. IMO if you cause muscle damage you have done a good workout.

You can have a superb workout with little or no DOMS.

ridonkulous

Zamboni wrote: »

You can have a superb workout with little or no DOMS.

I never said you couldn't.

My point isn't that if you don't get POMS you did something wrong or won't see gains. My point is that a previous post stated that POMS doesn't mean you did a good workout. I think it does. Not getting POMS doesn't indicate a bad workout might have been a better way to phrase it.

xgtdec

so to recap;)

5x5 as heavy as you can....sorted!!!! thank you!

Brian?

xgtdec wrote: »

so to recap;)

5x5 as heavy as you can....sorted!!!! thank you!

Yes, no and maybe.

The sets and reps you do are less important than the overall structure of the programme. What is that?

As for the DOMS being a sign of a good workout, sort of but not really. It really depends on what you call DOMS:

If i'm sore after a workout but it doesnt effect my next workout, good. But if I'm so sore it effects my next workout, bad. No soreness, bad.

Or that's the just of it I got from one Will Heffernan a few years ago on here. Seems to work.

xgtdec

program is based over 5 days with 2 days off, typical week is

Monday:Back....bent over rows, pull ups etc
Tuesday: chest & shouders: bench press, flys, military/shoulder press etc
Wednesday off
Thursday: legs, squats, lunges, leg extensions, calf raises etc
Friday: Biceps, underhand pullups, dumbells with fat gripz etc
Saturday:Triceps, dips, pushdowns, pulldowns, cable work-one twon handed etc
Sunday off

The doms i get depends on the body part...but it never stops me with the next workout, but say for example i do legs on Thursday...i have doms so bad that im like a cripple for 2-3 days afterwards trying to walk, but with no effect on my arm workouts Friday and saturday...or should i be able for another legs session given a days rest?

ConorFYG

xgtdec wrote: »

The doms i get depends on the body part...but it never stops me with the next workout, but say for example i do legs on Thursday...i have doms so bad that im like a cripple for 2-3 days afterwards trying to walk, but with no effect on my arm workouts Friday and saturday...or should i be able for another legs session given a days rest?

That definitely shouldn't be happening anyway.

Nate--IRL--

ConorFYG wrote: »

That definitely shouldn't be happening anyway.

Happens to most people who squat heavy.

Nate

Mellor

ridonkulous wrote: »

Well I read it that he was saying POMS doesn't necessarily mean you have done a good workout. IMO if you cause muscle damage you have done a good workout.

Well first of all, that would depend on the extent of muscle damage. At a certain point it becomes counter-productive and would start to slow progress, or even reverse it.

I did a run a while ago, lots of hills and I really pushed myself. I couldn't workout with high intensity for a week. I managed some light rehab work after 5 days. Even though the DOMS were epic, this wasn't a good workout - it was a race.

ridonkulous wrote: »

My point is that a previous post stated that POMS doesn't mean you did a good workout. I think it does.

Also, you are assuming that DOMS = Muscle damage is wrong. It isn't as simple as that. You could have DOMS from doing a new exercise, even a an intensity that is low while you get used to it. Just because you have DOMS doesn't mean you have had significant muscle damage.

Simply,
You can have DOMS with or without a good workout,
You can have a good workout with or without DOMS,

Hanley

ridonkulous wrote: »

I never said you couldn't.

My point isn't that if you don't get POMS you did something wrong or won't see gains. My point is that a previous post stated that POMS doesn't mean you did a good workout. I think it does. Not getting POMS doesn't indicate a bad workout might have been a better way to phrase it.

WTF are Poms? The things these girls are holding?! Why would I want those if I was training!??!

gymsoldier

Hanley wrote: »

WTF are Poms? The things these girls are holding?! Why would I want those if I was training!??!

Their special covers for kettle bells. Now we can all look fu*king cool in the gym!

ridonkulous

Hanley wrote: »

WTF are Poms? The things these girls are holding?! Why would I want those if I was training!??!

Hilarious. You knew what I meant.

Hanley

ridonkulous wrote: »

Hilarious. You knew what I meant.

I did. And you're entitled to your opinion. But if you want any credibility when you try to argue it, ya wanna get the (big) little things right

jive

DOMS in no way constitute a good workout. I'll give you an example of when I get DOMS.

Squatting 2x week. When I initially started working out I got bad DOMS from squats. Then when I got used to excercising (i.e. squatting 2x week) they disappeared. Queue injury playing football ruining my ankle. Several months without squatting or leg work of any kind occurs. Upon return to squatting I get DOMS again. After a week or so the DOMS do not occur anymore.

Conclusion : typically you will only get DOMS if you start working things you haven't worked before or if you take a break. You can still get muscle soreness to some degree but you typically won't get DOMS to the point of where you walk around like an old man after doing squats (although you may still get dem der jelly legs so be careful walking down the stairs after gyming).

Nate--IRL--

I'd agree with any other lift apart from squats/legs it is entirely possible to be in heap for the next few days if you are pushing hard, trying to advance a lift, with legs.

That said, I must admit it hasn't been that bad for me lately.

Nate

gymsoldier

jive wrote: »

Conclusion : typically you will only get DOMS if you start working things you haven't worked before or if you take a break. You can still get muscle soreness to some degree but you typically won't get DOMS to the point of where you walk around like an old man after doing squats (although you may still get dem der jelly legs so be careful walking down the stairs after gyming).

And to put some science behind your correct conclusion.

DOMS is related to the amount of Arachidonic Acid released during exercise. Regular resistance training depletes Arachidonic Acid stores. With less Arachidonic Acid available, the responsiveness of the Prostaglandin system to regular exercise starts to diminish. Arachidonic Acid is a regulator of localized muscle inflammation.

William Llewellyn - Anabolics 2006

ridonkulous

Hanley wrote: »

I did. And you're entitled to your opinion. But if you want any credibility when you try to argue it, ya wanna get the (big) little things right

Yeh I agree and I don't know why I started using it after my first post... brain fart obviously.

discus

gymsoldier wrote: »

And to put some science behind your correct conclusion.

DOMS is related to the amount of Arachidonic Acid released during exercise. Regular resistance training depletes Arachidonic Acid stores. With less Arachidonic Acid available, the responsiveness of the Prostaglandin system to regular exercise starts to diminish. Arachidonic Acid is a regulator of localized muscle inflammation.

William Llewellyn - Anabolics 2006

Oooo.. So an aspirin after your workout should limit DOMS before it gets the chance to start!

deadlybuzzman

gymsoldier wrote: »

And to put some science behind your correct conclusion.

DOMS is related to the amount of Arachidonic Acid released during exercise. Regular resistance training depletes Arachidonic Acid stores. With less Arachidonic Acid available, the responsiveness of the Prostaglandin system to regular exercise starts to diminish. Arachidonic Acid is a regulator of localized muscle inflammation.

William Llewellyn - Anabolics 2006

would that inflamation or the acid itself be in anyway a growth factor?

gymsoldier

discus wrote: »

Oooo.. So an aspirin after your workout should limit DOMS before it gets the chance to start!

Well from what I understand with the little bit of research I have done, you would not want to slow or stop the release of Arachidonic Acid.

deadlybuzzman wrote: »

would that inflamation or the acid itself be in anyway a growth factor?

There is a few articles to suggest it is a very important growth factor. I have never studied Biochemistry in dept, so some of the articles are above my knowledge and are hard to read.