Alien invasion

The Skulls

Anyone read the book by Travis S. Taylor & Bob Boan? Having read it I must admit the scientific possibilities of alien contact are worrying! The general premise of the book is that it's just a matter of time before ET turns up & that statistically they'll be hostile. It also gives what I think are plausible reasons why governments remain largely silent on the subject. Any else here read it? If so what do you think? Or are governments actively planning for this in the meantime?

What do you think?

Gumbi

The Skulls wrote: »

Anyone read the book by Travis S. Taylor & Bob Boan? Having read it I must admit the scientific possibilities of alien contact are worrying! The general premise of the book is that it's just a matter of time before ET turns up & that statistically they'll be hostile. It also gives what I think are plausible reasons why governments remain largely silent on the subject. Any else here read it? If so what do you think? Or are governments actively planning for this in the meantime?

What do you think?

What statistics?

tallaghtmick

We are not a hostile race why would they be?

I dont buy into this Aliens will invade because if so these "greys" have been watching us since the 50's at least why would they wait 50 years while we get more advanced and civilised with each other to invade?

Gumbi

tallaghtmick wrote: »

We are not a hostile race why would they be?

I dont buy into this Aliens will invade because if so these "greys" have been watching us since the 50's at least why would they wait 50 years while we get more advanced and civilised with each other to invade?

Can't say I agree with humans not being hostile.

scholar007

The Skulls wrote: »

Anyone read the book by Travis S. Taylor & Bob Boan? Having read it I must admit the scientific possibilities of alien contact are worrying! The general premise of the book is that it's just a matter of time before ET turns up & that statistically they'll be hostile. It also gives what I think are plausible reasons why governments remain largely silent on the subject. Any else here read it? If so what do you think? Or are governments actively planning for this in the meantime?

What do you think?

Oh my God - Lizards dressed as humans are coming to kill us all.

hooradiation

Gumbi wrote: »

What statistics?

I think it's based on the idea that every time in our history a more technologically advanced civilisation meets a less developed one the result was always subjugation and exploitation.

Which makes the, frankly arrogant, assumption that our inability to not be warmongering shitheels for more than five seconds is a universal constant as opposed to just our own little violent quirk.

Which makes it more a case of projection rather than something actually statistical.

Gumbi

hooradiation wrote: »

I think it's based on the idea that every time in our history a more technologically advanced civilisation meets a less developed one the result was always subjugation and exploitation.

Which makes the, frankly arrogant, assumption that our inability to not be warmongering shitheels for more than five seconds is a universal constant as opposed to just our own little violent quirk.

Which makes it more a case of projection rather than something actually statistical.

Ah, I see. It's a fair assumption; but as you said, nothing more.

Jonny7

If they can travel across space they could wipe us out in the blink of an eye in fairness.

The fact that we are still here should lead to the conclusion that if very advanced civilisations exist and have managed interstellar travel then they are most likely peaceful ones.

helimachoptor

Honestly it's hard to know what way aliens will come.

Lets be honest if an alien civilisation has the technology to cross space they will have no issues wiping us from the face of the planet.

However there may be aliens like the Asgard from SG that are benevolent.

We may encounter the Gao'ould or someone like that that either just want to destroy us or enslave us.

We may enter someone like the guys from Earth Final Conflict that come with open arms but have a secret agenda.

Finally they'll come for our resources (something i dont think is likely as frankly there are easier places to get water or whatever)
Even if they are advanced they'll suffer losses either in a conventional war or if things are going really bad humans will resort to nukes.

tallaghtmick

Gumbi wrote: »

Can't say I agree with humans not being hostile.

Agreed maybe I should have said we wouldnt invade another world if we had the technology.

seamus

helimachoptor wrote: »

Even if they are advanced they'll suffer losses either in a conventional war or if things are going really bad humans will resort to nukes.

I'm not really sure on that one tbh. Generously, any alien species capable of travelling such insane distances and to do so for such frivilous exploits like conquering an alien planet, will be a minimum of 2,000 years ahead of us, more likely 5,000 years.

Our ability to resist in that case is practically nil. Think of spears and swords against carpet bombers.

Of course, if you travel across the great expanse, you probably have a good deal of patience. A series of EMP bursts along with a series of fusion/antimatter bombs will completely destroy society and the resultant weather changes and loss of technology will mean that probably 99% of the world's population will starve in a year or two. Such weaponry would be child's play to an advanced race.

Of course, the only reason they would be hostile is if they're looking for resources. Otherwise any effort to eradicate us would just be waste.

I think it all really hinges on whether life is plentiful or rare in the universe. In the former case, any passing ETs would likely consider us worthy of study, like we would study any animal. But there would be no particular reason to merit us special attention - we'd appear no more sentient to them, than apes do to us. We'd just be one of 5000 other worlds teeming with life that they're studying.

If it's the latter, and life is very rare in the universe, then they would likely attempt to make some kind of direct contact rather than subvert and destroy us.

tallaghtmick

seamus wrote: »

I'm not really sure on that one tbh. Generously, any alien species capable of travelling such insane distances and to do so for such frivilous exploits like conquering an alien planet, will be a minimum of 2,000 years ahead of us, more likely 5,000 years.

Our ability to resist in that case is practically nil. Think of spears and swords against carpet bombers.

+1

I seen a documentary on something like that,for them to travel in space they would need shields that would deflect things far stronger than a nuclear bomb.

Imagine a small rock in space as you travel at lightspeed.......

Although in the very same doc they theorised that these aliens would not understand guerilla warfare as we do and sneak attacks would aid us using inferior tech to what we actually use now.

saywhatyousee

Jonny7 wrote: »

If they can travel across space they could wipe us out in the blink of an eye in fairness.

The fact that we are still here should lead to the conclusion that if very advanced civilisations exist and have managed interstellar travel then they are most likely peaceful ones.

I have to disagree with that.Basing the next part on human behaviour patterns.Most intelligent humans are physcopaths.It would be pretty naive to think aliens are any different.If you know you are smarter than another race then your obviously going to treat them with a certain amount of disdain,and not see them as equals.It does not really make much sense either blowing up the planet,it would be much more benefical to treat the inhabitants as a slave race.

seamus

saywhatyousee wrote: »

Most intelligent humans are physcopaths

What are you basing that on? Even if it were true, there is nothing to indicate that as the base intelligence of a species/population increases, the number of psychopaths does too.

saywhatyousee

seamus wrote: »

What are you basing that on? Even if it were true, there is nothing to indicate that as the base intelligence of a species/population increases, the number of psychopaths does too.

Personal experience.To be intelligent you have to show certain psychopathic tendencies.The term psychopath get branded around a lot these days,most people think a psychopath is a schizophrenic.A psychopath is much more dangerous emotionless,cold,calculating,remorseless,intelligent.Sounds like the boss at work :pac:.And with population increase the amount of psychopaths does not necessary have to increase,if anything i would say it would contract.People at the top wanting to keep power and all that....

Torakx

Theres also the possibility there are aliens who are inter-dimensional.
Maybe the druids can tell us more

Stingerbar

saywhatyousee wrote: »

Most intelligent humans are physcopaths.

I think its safe to assume you aren't a psychopath so

hooradiation

saywhatyousee wrote: »

I have to disagree with that.Basing the next part on human behaviour patterns.Most intelligent humans are physcopaths.It would be pretty naive to think aliens are any different.If you know you are smarter than another race then your obviously going to treat them with a certain amount of disdain,and not see them as equals.It does not really make much sense either blowing up the planet,it would be much more benefical to treat the inhabitants as a slave race.

It's the height of arrogance to assume that because this is how you think people operate that therefore it must hold true for alien species from other worlds.

I mean we'd be talking about a species that are, in the truest sense of the word, alien. I have no idea how people can in all seriousness make claims on how they might act let alone the reasons behind why they'd act that way.

saywhatyousee

Stingerbar wrote: »

I think its safe to assume you aren't a psychopath so

I noticed that when i was writing the second comment :o

saywhatyousee

hooradiation wrote: »

It's the height of arrogance to assume that because this is how you think people operate that therefore it must hold true for alien species from other worlds.

My psychopathic mind wont let me think any differently

clever_name

saywhatyousee wrote: »

IMost intelligent humans are physcopaths.I

Thanks for that quote, it means we can ignore everything you say because according to your logic you are probably either;

A. a psychopath

B. unintelligent

Torakx

lol in that case which are you?
Goes both ways

And a psychopath could give just as good advice as anyone else.

saywhatyousee

clever_name wrote: »

Thanks for that quote, it means we can ignore everything you say because according to your logic you are probably either;

A. a psychopath

B. unintelligent

I see humor is a alien concept to you.

clever_name

Torakx wrote: »

lol in that case which are you?
Goes both ways

Neither, I don't agree that to be intelligent you need to be a psychopath. Call me crazy but thats what I think

Torakx wrote: »

l
And a psychopath could give just as good advice as anyone else.

OK, not my first choice of people to get advise from, unless it about getting rid of evidence maybe

clever_name

saywhatyousee wrote: »

I see humor is a alien concept to you.

Ok, so was all of this a joke or just that one comment?

saywhatyousee wrote: »

I have to disagree with that.Basing the next part on human behaviour patterns.Most intelligent humans are physcopaths.It would be pretty naive to think aliens are any different.If you know you are smarter than another race then your obviously going to treat them with a certain amount of disdain,and not see them as equals.It does not really make much sense either blowing up the planet,it would be much more benefical to treat the inhabitants as a slave race.

Yitzhak Rabin

If you look at how any advanced human civilizations treated 'inferior' foreign civilizations when they came into contact with them, it doesn't bode well for us.

I'm sure they would view us the same way we view insects.

nyarlothothep

SETI is a terrible idea, we're advertising our vulnerability and technological inferiority simultaneously.

Sparticle

nyarlothothep wrote: »

SETI is a terrible idea, we're advertising our vulnerability and technological inferiority simultaneously.

We could turn SETI into an elaborate trap by putting the array on mercury and turning the planet into a gigantic bomb. That will show those alien fiends trying to contact us!

Torakx

yekahS wrote: »

If you look at how any advanced human civilizations treated 'inferior' foreign civilizations when they came into contact with them, it doesn't bode well for us.

I'm sure they would view us the same way we view insects.

I wonder how we would view another species from another planet that was of the same intelligence as us.
I think it would be all out war lol

Now i wonder how we would treat an inferior species..say like animals..oh right we know how that would go...not very pretty.

To be honest if i was part of an alien race and came and saw how much of a disease we(humans) are being to this planet i would consider saving the animals lol

Noahs ark might have been aliens collecting animals for introduction to another planet,before they wipe out mankind for being such douches.
Noah could have been an alien and the ark a ship(spaceship obviously).
And every 2600 years they come back with Nibiru and cull back the numbers. O.o

Hmm how long ago did the mayans dissapear again?

sickdullplain

Sparticle wrote: »

We could turn SETI into an elaborate trap by putting the array on mercury and turning the planet into a gigantic bomb. That will show those alien fiends trying to contact us!

Ender?!

Lefticus Loonaticus

The Skulls wrote: »

Anyone read the book by Travis S. Taylor & Bob Boan? Having read it I must admit the scientific possibilities of alien contact are worrying! The general premise of the book is that it's just a matter of time before ET turns up & that statistically they'll be hostile. It also gives what I think are plausible reasons why governments remain largely silent on the subject. Any else here read it? If so what do you think? Or are governments actively planning for this in the meantime?

What do you think?

If you go by much of the evidence presented by the many ufo researchers(the more credible ones and not the loopers :P) then they(aliens) are acting very deceptively - have not shown their faces and seem to want it that way. Acting in stealth without any meaningful engagment with the public ever.

If we were to encounter a more advanced race that wanted to dominate us, they would infiltrate into every level of society . They would set us up for thousands of years of human civil war by setting competing idealogies against eachother while remaining invisible themselves. Insuring that we stunt our own growth and insuring we dont get in their way anytime soon. That would be the chosen tactic, and thats how humanity kinda is .

Chances are, if they are there somwhere, then some of them may be responsible for us being here in the first place. I dont think they would just do us in. They would not need our resources, if they have advanced space travel then they would prob harness the power of the sun(s). The only thing we have that they would want would be our unique culture and/or to study our emotional spectrum, which is what sets us apart from every other animal on this rock and may set us apart from other civilizations if we ever meet them.

smellslikeshoes

I personally think it's a little arrogant to think space faring civilisations would be bothered coming here to be hostile.

The argument that hostile aliens would come here to conquer us for our resources is silly. If an alien civilisation was advanced enough to have mastered interstellar space travel what resources could they get here that wouldn't be easily available to them elsewhere?

I also think the same can be said for conquering us to colonise earth, even with our limited technology and the short time we have been able to detect planets, a lot have been discovered with a small but increasing number of planets being found in the goldilocks zone. I just don't see why a civilisation with the technology to travel 1000s of light years would bother to conquer us when they would easily be advanced enough to terraform a planet, and that's assuming an earth like planet is actually in any way out of the ordinary.

I just think any space fairing alien civilisation that notices us would just think "meh" and carry on doing what they are doing.

Fozzydog3

A few points I'd like to make , not hugely devoted to the subject so dont treat t as gospel ,

1. The enslaving idea : Its far cheaper and easier to maintain a combine harvester than it is 100 humans . to quote the Dead Kennedys " Machines can do a better job than you " skip forward a few million years in technological advancement

2. The taking resources : Our civilization is already trying (albeit badly) to phase out fossil fuels completely and I doubt they would have any machines compatible with it so I cant think of anything we've to offer them

3. War : again we've nothing really to offer them, They're intelligent which I assume includes emotions they've a whole universe of gold,water,food, land you name it and the blowing up the world idea wouldn't really do them any favours


POSSIBILITIES:

1: A la Telly Savalas in The Dirty Dozen or that machine gunner in Full Metal Jacket: some sort of mutiny happens or an alien with a mental illness comes along and kills us all for the craic .

2: A civilization only slightly , lets say a thousand years more technologically advanced but with all the problems (overpopulation , pollution , food shortages , energy shortages etc.) comes along for our resources A La Independence Day

3: Like District 9 a sort of alien "lifeboat" crash lands on earth causing problems

Boo Radley

Just to play devil's advocate here, the only reason I could see a super advanced extraterrestrial race being interested in Earth would be to use it as a planet scale lab.

Maybe life sustaining planets are rare (I'm aware of the raging debate on this) and Earth might be useful to them for research purposes. Unless they've advanced enough to terraform 'dead' planets.

All working on the assumption that there is sufficiently advanced life beyond Earth or course...

Kadongy

Lots of people are aliens since WW2.
-Psychologically I mean, not in a lizard-man shapeshifter sense. Though really the only practical differences are that they're not coordinated, and are harder to detect

Fozzydog3

Kadongy wrote: »

Lots of people are aliens since WW2.
-Psychologically I mean, not in a lizard-man shapeshifter sense. Though really the only practical differences are that they're not coordinated, and are harder to detect

explain ?

hooradiation

nyarlothothep wrote: »

SETI is a terrible idea, we're advertising our vulnerability and technological inferiority simultaneously.

To whom?

Kadongy

Fozzydog3 wrote: »

explain ?

Same line of thought as in this thread:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056377815

My personal opinion is that a lot of people don't have a solid sense of self. I think that this results in a lack of morals and empathy. I think that they project an image to suit their environment, like the lizardman conspiracy idea. I think that they really think is genuinely alien to most people, and difficult to conceive - again mirroring the alien invasion idea.

Jonny7

Boo Radley wrote: »

Just to play devil's advocate here, the only reason I could see a super advanced extraterrestrial race being interested in Earth would be to use it as a planet scale lab.

Maybe life sustaining planets are rare (I'm aware of the raging debate on this) and Earth might be useful to them for research purposes. Unless they've advanced enough to terraform 'dead' planets.

All working on the assumption that there is sufficiently advanced life beyond Earth or course...

Just to hypothesise..

I mean we study the tiniest most insignificant bacteria here on our planet

Perhaps we feature in alien nature documentaries - maybe that's what all the visits are about

I mean if we found basic life on Mars we wouldn't feel compelled to destroy it, we'd study it.

jargon buster

and if the aliens have anything in common with humans they will kill everyone they come across who stand in there way, enslave the rest and plant a flag on the beach and claim it as theres.

Oh and if they are not like us we will most likely kill them.

Yitzhak Rabin

Jonny7 wrote: »

Just to hypothesise..

I mean we study the tiniest most insignificant bacteria here on our planet

Perhaps we feature in alien nature documentaries - maybe that's what all the visits are about

I mean if we found basic life on Mars we wouldn't feel compelled to destroy it, we'd study it.

Exactly. They would study us like we would study bacteria - i.e see what we can learn and exploit from it, without regard for them, because they are just bacteria/humans. They would be so far advanced from us, that I'm sure they would see us as unworthy of empathy.

Jeboa Safari

yekahS wrote: »

Exactly. They would study us like we would study bacteria - i.e see what we can learn and exploit from it, without regard for them, because they are just bacteria/humans. They would be so far advanced from us, that I'm sure they would see us as unworthy of empathy.

I think they'd see us as more than bacteria, seeing as we'd have the potential to become highly advanced within thousands(?) of years, which wouldn't be that long on a universal timescale.

The Skulls

The basic premise of the the book is that IF an advanced extra terrestrial civilisation were to turn up that it is possible to defend earth though exactly how will depend on how advanced such an invasion force is,their weapons, tactics, overall strategy, numbers etc. The likelihood of an invasion is discussed in some detail (scientifically), Drakes equation is discussed, Fermi's paradox, Kardashev scale amongst others. Physics are discussed in great detail & while i remember some from school i'm not a scientist but the arguments are clear & the conclusions logical. The authors contend that at some point humankind will be visited in the future & that humanity should start preparing for this now.
It is also contended that warfare is warfare no matter what & that mankind has shown himself to be very innovative & adaptive when it comes to warfare throughout history. Existing doctrine can be modified though it is ineviteable that we will be defeated in the short term; our best chance will be asymmetric warfare over a longer period of time i.e. years. Just think the Soviet Union & the Afghan invasion; huge military force, superior weapons, training etc & yet they had to withdraw. Think of the present day insurgencies the United States military has had to contend with. Nuclear weapons will be ineffective simply because if an invader can cross interstellar distances then our most powerful bombs wouldn't even dent them.
An alien civilisations motivations for contact (peaceful) & invasion (hostile) are hypothesised also e.g. desire to help mankind or invasion for 'resources' or new territory etc. Also someone mentioned SETI which interestingly enough is mentioned in the book from the point of view that they should stop broadcasting immediately & devote ALL of their resources to listening/surveillance of space. As a previous poster said "why advertise our weakness?" or words to that effect. The public 'need to know' is also discussed & it is concluded that secrecy is absolutely imperative, if ET has begun infiltration of earth as another poster said they may then all information on the search for & possible defence against an invasion must be kept from the general public at all costs. I have to admit personally that makes sense;after all the more people know a secret the less chance of it staying that way.
In short i found the book quite interesting in its subject matter, i've never read a book like this before. The authors are not quacks, both are quite well known in the academic & scientific communities respectively (think their bio's are available online). I doubt this will appeal to the tin foil hat community but overall i found it a stimulating & thought provoking read. I just hope that if ET turns up in my lifetime hes either friendly or he decides we're not worth the effort & passes us by.

Wibbs

Chances are they will have passed their "singularity" and gone beyond the purely biological stage. What such a society would want from us is anyones guess. I suspect curiousity, observation, maybe instruction in how to meet them as equals would be on the cards. If they were hostile(maybe even as a side effect), our resistance would likely be futile as the sci fi scripts put it. Faced with individual IQs in the 1000's and all linked into a massive gestalt mind that could probably work out almost infinite future variables in ways we can only begin to grasp. We'd be boned.

Sparticle

Wibbs wrote: »

Chances are they will have passed their "singularity" and gone beyond the purely biological stage. What such a society would want from us is anyones guess. I suspect curiousity, observation, maybe instruction in how to meet them as equals would be on the cards. If they were hostile(maybe even as a side effect), our resistance would likely be futile as the sci fi scripts put it. Faced with individual IQs in the 1000's and all linked into a massive gestalt mind that could probably work out almost infinite future variables in ways we can only begin to grasp. We'd be boned.

But... but the aliens will always have a glaring weakness easily accessed and exploited by 21st century technology!

Obelisk

It's like this!

Torakx wrote: »

Theres also the possibility there are aliens who are inter-dimensional.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVWvI803uNk

It's like that!

hooradiation

Obelisk wrote: »

It's like this!

"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government."

It's like that! - Former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, address to the Bilderberger organization meeting in Evian, France (May 21st 1992

Come on now, we've been through this already. That is a widely misattributed quote - purportedly recorded by a Swiss diplomat, but no such recording of Mr Kissinger saying this has ever been produced.

Obelisk

Hahaha, I knew someone (like you) would say that. Removed :pac:

catch me if you can

Maybe aliens are already here. Maybe we are all aliens that settled here milleniums ago after our planet died out . din din din

hooradiation

Obelisk wrote: »

Hahaha, I knew someone (like you) would say that. Removed :pac:

I am more shocked that i recognised it straight away.

I'm hanging out here far too much....

okeanes

if there was aliens or alien sightings on the earth the aliens are more advanced . we have been constantly looking out the hubble space scope and found no proof of a civilised race and that was looking far out of our reach the fact that there so advanced to travel millions of miles to get here says theyre more advanced as us .seem as there was reports of alien sightings dating back to more than a hundred years ago must prove that there more advanced and wont wipe out are race as if they wanted to we would be gone by now .more alien sightings are iminite . they will eventually come to try and communicate with us or if not they will take are natural resources peacefully . as we would do if there was a couple of apes living in a mine full of coal get them out get the coal and leave no violence nessasary if there as advanced as are race thell know that to whats the story with area 51 and if it is there how was it kept secret so long .