Big Brother is watching - Red Lights Camera's.

MugMugs

In the Indo today.

As nearly falling victim to twits daily at a certain junction at home, I welcome this!

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-traffic-trial-to-picture-redlight-jumpers-in-the-act-2866542.html

And for those on Mobile.

DRIVERS who jump a red light will be caught on camera under a new trial.
Dublin is to get the country's first red-light enforcement camera, which is due to be tried out at two junctions crossing the city's red line Luas.
Gardai have confirmed that the images from the camera will be used to issue fixed-charge notices to motorists who break red lights at the junctions.
The 12-month trial is in response to a number of collisions between motorists and trams.
Sergeant Jim Molloy at the garda press office said: "This would be the first red-light camera enforcement project in Ireland."
Failure to obey traffic lights can attract two penalty points, or five on conviction. Motorists will be fined €80, or €120 if that remains unpaid after 28 days.
"In accordance with the standard practice in respect of fixed charge notices, prosecutions would be initiated if payment of the fixed charge wasn't received," said Sgt Molloy.
A spokeswoman at Dublin City Council said: "The purpose of this trial is to monitor vehicles breaking red lights at a junction and to ascertain the extent and seriousness of problems and its implications.
"This camera is in a testing and commissioning phase at present."
The trial will involve one camera, which will be moved between the junctions where the Luas red line meets Blackhall Place and Queen Street near Dublin's quays.
Tom Manning, spokesman for the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA), said: "The primary issue is the failure of motorists, and cyclists in particular, to stop at the red traffic signal at these junctions, thereby jeopardising their own safety and the safety of Luas passengers."
Mr Manning said motorists who drove on to tram tracks without being able to clear the junction also posed a safety problem.
The RPA will collect data from the trial, along with records of collisions along the red line, and monitor the use of the emergency braking system on trams.
This data will be used to give a better picture of safety issues along the Luas red line.
Collisions are less frequent on the Luas green line, as it intersects with fewer busy streets because it was built on the former Harcourt Street railway line.

Davidth88

Thats odd , I thought there was already one on the Lucan Rd inbound near Kilmainham.

http://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.34348,-6.309328&spn=0.000026,0.027595&z=15&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.343801,-6.308476&panoid=MyTZxTxh1YFPyNTkf2ZzTg&cbp=12,133.24,,0,-0.63

Tea drinker

The primary issue is the failure of motorists, and cyclists in particular, to stop at the red traffic signal at these junctions, thereby jeopardising their own safety and the safety of Luas passengers."

Hopefully it gets the mental patient cyclist who sailed through a red light in front of me last week and gave me the finger when I politely warning bipped him. Ignorant ****K!
(TD runs away and joins anti cycling strong crew.)

MugMugs

Davidth88 wrote: »

Thats odd , I thought there was already one on the Lucan Rd inbound near Kilmainham.

http://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.34348,-6.309328&spn=0.000026,0.027595&z=15&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.343801,-6.308476&panoid=MyTZxTxh1YFPyNTkf2ZzTg&cbp=12,133.24,,0,-0.63

Drive past that weekly and never noticed it before.

Does it work or is it just a deterrent ?

Davidth88

MugMugs wrote: »

Drive past that weekly and never noticed it before.

Does it work or is it just a deterrent ?

No idea , I always assumed it worked .


Love to see how a camera will stop push bikes jumping lights .

joolsveer

Davidth88 wrote: »

No idea , I always assumed it worked .


Love to see how a camera will stop push bikes jumping lights .

Will it read their registration plates?

MugMugs

joolsveer wrote: »

Will it read their registration plates?

I assume it would be the same as those static speed camera's.

Davidth88

joolsveer wrote: »

Will it read their registration plates?

Errrrrr what registration plates ..... or have I got my irony filter set too strongly ?

Gumbo

Davidth88 wrote: »

Thats odd , I thought there was already one on the Lucan Rd inbound near Kilmainham.

http://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.34348,-6.309328&spn=0.000026,0.027595&z=15&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.343801,-6.308476&panoid=MyTZxTxh1YFPyNTkf2ZzTg&cbp=12,133.24,,0,-0.63

MugMugs wrote: »

Drive past that weekly and never noticed it before.

Does it work or is it just a deterrent ?

thats an old speed camera IIRC
Before they resurfaced the road, you could see the remains of the white line markings.

-Chris-

I think this is a fine idea. There's some really stupid "late amber" driving going on.
Certainly more dangerous than doing 140 on the motorway...

galwaytt

Davidth88 wrote: »

Love to see how a camera will stop push bikes jumping lights .

...obviously, it won't. But, you can still 'get' those that are involved in accidents with Tram's etc, as you'll have evidence of not complying with rules, so they can be done for that. And, when the claim to an insurance company comes in, you can just play it back to them and tell them to be on their way.........

MugMugs

galwaytt wrote: »

...obviously, it won't. But, you can still 'get' those that are involved in accidents with Tram's etc, as you'll have evidence of not complying with rules, so they can be done for that. And, when the claim to an insurance company comes in, you can just play it back to them and tell them to be on their way.........

I would have assumed these are one shot jobs ?

ie: Camera arms when red engages and triggers when the treshhold is passed by instead of a constant video stream.

JimsAlterEgo

-Chris- wrote: »

I think this is a fine idea. There's some really stupid "late amber" driving going on.
Certainly more dangerous than doing 140 on the motorway...

+1, lights near us where upto 5 seconds on red is stil considered green never mind amber

tmcw

kceire wrote: »

thats an old speed camera IIRC
Before they resurfaced the road, you could see the remains of the white line markings.

I'm *almost* certain it is/was a red light camera. I lived nearby 10 years ago, and am *almost* certain there was a sign indicating it was as such.

I wouldn't bet more than a few euro on it though. But would it not be odd having a speed camera right on the lights like that?

MugMugs

-Chris- wrote: »

I think this is a fine idea. There's some really stupid "late amber" driving going on.
Certainly more dangerous than doing 140 on the motorway...

I crap myself at this junction every morning.

I come from the left turn there going right. When the light goes green for me there is a good chance about 4 or 5 seconds into my green somebody will plough through their now 10 second red at 100kmh. May petition the local CoCo for one here !

keithclancy

I got flashed by a Red Light Camera in Germany, Belgian guy stopped his car in the middle of the Junction since he got confused on which way to go (6 lane junction going in three different directions)

280 euro fine for under 1.5 seconds after it goes red, 900 euro fine + 3 month ban for over 1.5 seconds.

I was bricking it for the 6 weeks it took for the ticket to arrive.

Ones they use here in NL and DE are just the static Gatso red light cameras that give your face a nice warm sensation when they go off.

On the downside to Red Light Cameras you have to really watch out for tailgaters, have seen a ton of accidents where someone runs into the back of someone else due to them stomping on the brakes

Northern Monkey

This could bring Ireland out of recession and also reduce our conjestion problem single handedly .

I have yet to see a set of lights where someone doesn't go through on a red in Dublin.

Berty

Ah well the milk men,bread men, taxi men, late night drivers of this country are fvcked. They treat red lights as suggestions.

Blazer

Tea drinker wrote: »

Hopefully it gets the mental patient cyclist who sailed through a red light in front of me last week and gave me the finger when I politely warning bipped him. Ignorant ****K!
(TD runs away and joins anti cycling strong crew.)

I fúckin hate cyclists...and I'm one myself but I do it on the backroads where you'd be lucky to meet a car in the whole day..
between the guys sailing through red lights to the stupid prícks cycling 4 abreast on a road ....arghggghhgghgh

monument

Davidth88 wrote: »

Thats odd , I thought there was already one on the Lucan Rd inbound near Kilmainham.

http://maps.google.ie/?ll=53.34348,-6.309328&spn=0.000026,0.027595&z=15&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.343801,-6.308476&panoid=MyTZxTxh1YFPyNTkf2ZzTg&cbp=12,133.24,,0,-0.63

That's not in use for fining people (ie it's not really a red light enforcement camera).

Gardai confirmed the one in the article is the first enforcement camera.

LordVader

Is it possible to report someone for breaking a red light and is it worth doing?

Voodoomelon

MugMugs wrote: »

I crap myself at this junction every morning.

I come from the left turn there going right. When the light goes green for me there is a good chance about 4 or 5 seconds into my green somebody will plough through their now 10 second red at 100kmh. May petition the local CoCo for one here !

Thats a shockin one alright. It is kind annoying though it being 80kph and suddenly the lights turn amber when you're 30 metres infront of them. I never break the lights mind.

cyclopath2001

LordVader wrote: »

Is it possible to report someone for breaking a red light and is it worth doing?

With video evidence maybe. It's certainly worthwhile as the law is that you must stop on amber, so anyone going through a red light is well out of order and needs dealing with.

AugustusMinimus

If we bring it in, it MUST record cyclists also braking red lights.

I'm sh*t sick of cyclists going through junction on full red lights without a worry in the world.


Delighted overall to see them come in as red and amber light running is incredible dangerous.

kippy

Totally agree with this, especially on Luas/train junctions and would like to see it spread to other junctions as well.
Not much can be done about the bikes by the looks of it........

challengemaster

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

If we bring it in, it MUST record cyclists also braking red lights.

I'm sh*t sick of cyclists going through junction on full red lights without a worry in the world.


Delighted overall to see them come in as red and amber light running is incredible dangerous.

The best one is cyclists that continue through reds, then use the footpath to cross the road and continue cycling on the footpath... donkeys.

I really wish the gardaí would get the finger out with regards to actually prosecuting cyclists.

AugustusMinimus

challengemaster wrote: »

The best one is cyclists that continue through reds, then use the footpath to cross the road and continue cycling on the footpath... donkeys.

I really wish the gardaí would get the finger out with regards to actually prosecuting cyclists.

I have no problem with cyclists getting off their bikes and walking their bikes across a pedestrian crossing instead of waiting at lights. However, there's a sizeable amount of cyclists who simply cycle through red lights without a problem.

AugustusMinimus

kippy wrote: »

Not much can be done about the bikes by the looks of it........

Let's never give up in this drive for road safety. Facial recognition software is a booming area in the computer industry.

I'd have no problem have an image of my face scanned into a computer to ensure proper safety at signalised junctions.

kippy

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Let's never give up in this drive for road safety. Facial recognition software is a booming area in the computer industry.

I'd have no problem have an image of my face scanned into a computer to ensure proper safety at signalised junctions.

I am not saying anyone give up, just stating a fact that is valid at this point in time.

That type of software as many pitfalls associated with it.

The ideal solution is random checking of junctions by Gardai and the prosecuting of those that are breaking the law but I suppose
1. The numbers
2. The will
isnt there for whatever reason.........

cyclopath2001

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I'd have no problem have an image of my face scanned into a computer to ensure proper safety at signalised junctions.

Let's add secure GPS recording of speed and location too.

AugustusMinimus

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Let's add secure GPS recording of speed and location too.

Lets try to keep this on topic. We're talking about red light cameras and people going through red lights.

Start a thread about GPS if you want.

cyclopath2001

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Lets try to keep this on topic. We're talking about red light cameras and people going through red lights.

What's needed is an holistic approach to road safety, not just picking on a single behaviour. Speed at the time would be critical in judging an amber light offence as it relates to whether or not a driver could have stopped safely on amber and complied with the law.

heate

I'm fed up with cyclists blasting through lights and me nearly hitting them a any beep or hand up from me is met with a swift finger and calling my a wa**er or what have you..

As for people breaking red lights it drives me nuts every time I see people blatantly flying through junctions as the lights go green for me and I hammer it only to discover the junction hasn't cleared because some idiot has decided that he doesn't stop for red.


Facial recognition is a good way of sorting this out. I don't understand people's objection. If you are not doing anything wrong why should you worry?

As for the camera's well there has to be allowances for someone doing a speed where it is not feasible to stop safely - these allowances are calculated by the seconds since the light went red/orange as is done in other countries.
An addition to this would be cameras that detect people making illegal turns etc.. I'm truly fed up people holding up lines of traffic trying to cross solid white lines and people turning where they shouldn't be. I know the roads I know where I can and can't turn an as such when I drive I choose the right road for the direction I'm headed.

AugustusMinimus

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

What's needed is an holistic approach to road safety, not just picking on a single behaviour. Speed at the time would be critical in judging an amber light offence as it relates to whether or not a driver could have stopped safely on amber and complied with the law.

In order to correctly assessed whether a person could or could not have stopped on amber, the following will have to be noted.

1. Speed of the vehicle
2. Mass of the vehicle
3. Grip of the road surface
4. Whether the car has ABS or not
5. Direction of wind flow
6. Drag of the car
7. Air pressure
8. Weather conditions
9. Slope of the road
10. Centre of gravity of the car
11. Brake bias
12. Reaction times of the driver
13. Time delay on pressing brake pedal to pads pushing against disks

As you can see, your holistic approach will require quite a bit of scientific observation. All in the name of road safety I guess.

challengemaster

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

In order to correctly assessed whether a person could or could not have stopped on amber, the following will have to be noted.

1. Speed of the vehicle
2. Mass of the vehicle
3. Grip of the road surface
4. Whether the car has ABS or not
5. Direction of wind flow
6. Drag of the car
7. Air pressure
8. Weather conditions
9. Slope of the road
10. Centre of gravity of the car
11. Brake bias
12. Reaction times of the driver
13. Time delay on pressing brake pedal to pads pushing against disks

As you can see, your holistic approach will require quite a bit of scientific observation. All in the name of road safety I guess.

you missed the make of the cars tyres and the tread wear... :pac:

AugustusMinimus

challengemaster wrote: »

you missed the make of the cars tyres and the tread wear... :pac:

I also didn't mention

Softness of the suspension. Softer suspension will mean the car will present a larger cross section as the front will dip more and the back will rise more under braking, creating better aero braking effect.

challengemaster

Condition of the brakes aswell, pads/discs or drums even.. i reckon the alignment might alter it too..

LordVader

heate wrote: »

If you are not doing anything wrong why should you worry?

That's a slippery slope to a real Big Brother state.

Victor

MugMugs wrote: »

I would have assumed these are one shot jobs ?

ie: Camera arms when red engages and triggers when the treshhold is passed by instead of a constant video stream.

I imagine they can do both video and stills.

LordVader wrote: »

That's a slippery slope to a real Big Brother state.

You're one to talk Lord Vader. :pac:

cyclopath2001

heate wrote: »

As for the camera's well there has to be allowances for someone doing a speed where it is not feasible to stop safely.

That's another offense itself.

Ironically, most of the cars I see failing to stop on amber and in front of the stop line are the ones with ABS etc.

The exception for failing to stop on amber is primarily defined by the distance from the stop line when the lights change to amber. Arguing that you could not stop safely because you were speeding, the wind was wrong or had worn brakes or tyres is likely to annoy a judge.

Tommy Max

Are there any red light camera's in place yet? Is there any confirmation that they are in place anywhere in Dublin?

yupyup7up

whats next? a box in the car to limit our speeds? im all for road safety but theres a point where this gets ridiculous

MugMugs

yupyup7up wrote: »

whats next? a box in the car to limit our speeds? im all for road safety but theres a point where this gets ridiculous

Well since you asked, This is apparently

Anan1

MugMugs wrote: »

Well since you asked, This is apparently

I'm all for that one. Whatever about speeding, there's no excuse for driving on bald tyres. And yes, 1.6mm is bald.

monument

Tommy Max wrote: »

Are there any red light camera's in place yet? Is there any confirmation that they are in place anywhere in Dublin?

There's at least two new cameras in place now but that last time I past both within the last two weeks they did not seem to be operational yet...

The first is as reported in the Independent, on Blackhall Place southbound, the location is here in Street View at the bus stop before the camera was erected.

And the second is a replacement of on old, never-functional one on Con Colbert Road eastbound. The new one is taller and has a bright coloured backing.

Fey!

According to the RSA, in the wet, 50kmph stopping distance is calculated to be 35.2 metres. Travelling at 50kmph, 35.2 metres is covered in 2.5 seconds (presumably this is hammering down on the brakes to avoid an accident). Therefore if an amber light is lit for 4 seconds, then drivers should have ample time to stop safely.
If a junction is 50m wide, then a car travelling at 50kmph will cross it in 3.6 seconds. Therefore if the is a 4 second gap between the red light showing on one road to the green light showing on the crossing road, any cars which passed through on amber should be well clear of the junction.
For junctions on a 100kmph road, these figures would change to stopping in 122.6 metres, which is 4.4 seconds, so a 7 second amber should work. The car would pass through the junction in 1.8 seconds, so a 2 second delay between red and green should be allowed.
Points should go to anyone going through the red, as well as anyone entering the junction without being able to exit the junction (traffic backing up into the junction). As an example of where to see the worst of this behaviour, I would like to introduce you all to the junction at the fire station in Galway, where drivers coming from Salthill toward the city centre routinely ignore the lights and junction.

The red line is where traffic crashes the lights. The yellow boxes represent the junctions, much of which has a very faded yellow box. The blue lines are the traffic light positions.



I'd love to see them put cameras there, or even have a garda there once in a while to take notes of misbehaving drivers.

seamus

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

In order to correctly assessed whether a person could or could not have stopped on amber, the following will have to be noted.

1. Speed of the vehicle
...
13. Time delay on pressing brake pedal to pads pushing against disks

As you can see, your holistic approach will require quite a bit of scientific observation. All in the name of road safety I guess.

Not necessarily. The calculation could be simple enough in a generous manner.

You take the speed limit for that particular road and from that you can work out the worst-case time and distance required to stop safely (i.e. without jamming on) before the white line.
This is then your "trigger" time for the amber. So if your amber lasts four seconds and your figures say that someone will take 3 seconds, worst-case (i.e. slowing normally, not jamming on ) to stop before the white line after seeing the amber, then you set the camera up to "flash" anyone passing through the amber during the last second.

Of course, these would need to be a case-by-case basis. You could automatically prosecute for breaking reds, but not for ambers, they'd need to be reviewed and someone to decide if they were in breach.

So it would seem like a lot of effort for perhaps little gain.

My suspicion is that if people thought they would be snagged on camera for the reds, they'd be less likely to gamble on the amber.

Our man in Havana

The camera is a Gatsometer type that takes 2 pictures when the camera is activated. Easy to see by comparing the 2 images if the light has been run.

cyclopath2001

seamus wrote: »

Of course, these would need to be a case-by-case basis. You could automatically prosecute for breaking reds, but not for ambers, they'd need to be reviewed and someone to decide if they were in breach.

Simplest solution is to prosecute anyone who does not stop on amber, as required by law. It would be their problem to show that they could not have stopped safely.

ardmacha

One hopes they can also get the cyclist louts also.

D_murph

ardmacha wrote: »

One hopes they can also get the cyclist louts also.

They have no reg plates so they will most likely get away unfortunately :rolleyes:.