Irelands Industrial History - Did we have one and where is it hiding ???

CDfm

I first thought of a thread like this some time ago.

Wrapped up in potato history as we often are on this forum we often forget that there was a life not dependant on the land.

For example , people drank beer, and before Guinness the country was dotted with breweries and breweries bought the ingredients for it.

Mapping the Lost Breweries of Ireland



Written by Barry Masterson Sunday, 27 July 2008 10:14


Following a post on the forums from a member of ICB asking about old breweries, it occurred to me that given my career path -- firstly as a land surveyor working in an archaeological research institution, to developing Geographic Information Systems for organisations such as Ordnance Survey Ireland and the Department of the Environment -- I have had maps and documents pass through my hands that provided a rich foundation for finding out more about where our native breweries were at a time when there were certainly far more than there are now, and when the surveyors recorded the finest detail about their surroundings: the early 19th Century. Armed with an online copy of A Topographical Dictionary of Ireland by Samuel Lewis from 1837, I set out to find all references he made to breweries in the places he describes, and to put them on a map for all to see.
Initial Sources

Lewis' Topographical Dictionary is a huge piece of work, boasting an extensive list of parishes, towns and villages, and providing varying levels of detail and facts about those places. Perhaps a dry read, but very entertaining at times, and always interesting, especially if you are familiar with the place about which he is writing. Although Lewis certainly wasn't going to mention every brewery operating at the time, I knew he would probably mention breweries where they were a significant part of a town's commerce, and that would be as good a start point as any.
The first pass of Lewis' Topographical Dictionary produced over seventy placenames where one or more breweries were mentioned. Lewis covered such a wide area, his descriptions varied considerably in depth. I think it was easy to tell places that he only visitied briefly, if at all, where he might say "there is a brewery", to slightly more detailed entries such as that for Ennis, County Clare:
At Clonroad is the extensive brewery of Messrs. Harley and Co., who are also about to re-establish a distillery formerly carried on at that place; and there is a smaller brewery in the town; the Ennis ale is in great repute.
or this entry for Ratass (Rathass?), County Kerry
Messrs. Newell and Grant's distillery and Mr. Bender's brewery are situated at Ballymullen, and together with a considerable portion of the parish, are within the limits of the borough of Tralee, under which head they are noticed. Several neat houses have been built in this suburb, and it is probable that in the course of a few years the buildings will be extended to the town, about a quarter of a mile distant.
Yes, a Mr. Bender owning a brewery in Ratass. You couldn't make this up!
Organising all of this information into a small database with the County, placename, an extract of Lewis' description and my own comments meant each place could be visited in turn to see if a brewery could be found marked on a map. But what maps?

The best maps for that period are without doubt the First Edition Six Inch maps from Ordnance Survey. Between 1829 and 1841 the Ordnance Survey worked from North to South mapping the whole island at a scale of 6 inches to 1 mile (1:10,560 in metric terms). Ireland was the first country in the world to be completely and comprehensively mapped at such a detailed scale. While this was largely for land valuation and taxation reasons, they provide a wonderful snapshot in time of Ireland before the famine, when the population was at its highest, and are a credit to the skills of the surveyors and cartographers of the time.
Once at the right town or parish, it's simply a matter of looking very closely, squinting frequently, to see if the surveyors marked the fact that a brewery was in the town or village mentioned. I'm happy to say that, such was the diligence of the land surveyors of the time, quite frequently a brewery was easily found, along with other building types like distilleries, mills, lunatic asylums, nunneries and tanneries, the latter two of which caused me much confusion at times, as they both look like the word brewery when the text is unclear, and you want it to be a brewery! For a small proportion of those marked breweries, Ordnance Survey had actually labelled the name of the brewery, not just with the generic “Brewery”. Hence “Ovoca Brewery” just north of Arklow, Co. Wicklow and “Cornwalls Brewery” in Bandon, Co. Cork amongst others.



http://www.beoir.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106:mapping-the-lost-breweries-of-ireland&catid=26:general-articles&Itemid=94

Beer didn't get transported in buckets -you had coopers, bottle companies and so forth.

People lived in towns. Not everything was imported.

Canals and railways were built to transport things for sale.

Not everyone lived in tenements either , you had an urban society, shops,schools, banks, lawyers, boarding houses, post offices etc

You also had shipbuilding etc and had to have in an island nation.

Occasionally you get snippets.One of Jeremy Irons forebearers ran a linen mill in West Cork.

You also had sub-supply into the British forces stationed un Ireland and all kinds of stuff.

Politics too.

So whats the story ??

jonniebgood1

Great topic CD.
We are surrounded by the remnants of a previous time in relation to industry. By its nature it changes over time and new technologies render previously useful things redundant. The maps mentioned in your quoted piece are a great starting point to seeing what was going on. maps from the 1840s, 1900's and present can be overlayed and show up mills, kilns, quarries etc all over the place http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,591271,743300,2,9

It is well known that the north east has a rich industrial heritage but that does not mean that other places did not have industry. There are almost to many tangents to go off in on this subject- where do we start?

ejmaztec

I've always had the impression that the Industrial Revolution was deliberately kept away from Ireland, with the exception of token efforts in the big cities. It seems to me that Ireland was regarded as a bread-basket for mainland Britain. Of course I could be wrong, and it could also have been that Ireland didn't have the vast quantities of raw materials (eg coal) that they had across the water, so didn't benefit much.

The upside to me of this situation, is that Ireland is greener as a result of not been turned into a heavily industrialised powerhouse.

Delancey

CDfm wrote: »

I first thought of a thread like this some time ago.

Wrapped up in potato history as we often are on this forum we often forget that there was a life not dependant on the land.

For example , people drank beer, and before Guinness the country was dotted with breweries and breweries bought the ingredients for it.



Beer didn't get transported in buckets -you had coopers, bottle companies and so forth.

People lived in towns. Not everything was imported.

Canals and railways were built to transport things for sale.

Not everyone lived in tenements either , you had an urban society, shops,schools, banks, lawyers, boarding houses, post offices etc

You also had shipbuilding etc and had to have in an island nation.

Occasionally you get snippets.One of Jeremy Irons forebearers ran a linen mill in West Cork.

You also had sub-supply into the British forces stationed un Ireland and all kinds of stuff.

Politics too.

So whats the story ??

I think the story in 1 word was '' Scale '' , sure there was ship building and Iron Making but on nothing like the scale in Britain.
Chances are that Jeremy Irons ancestors linen mill in Cork was a fraction of the size of the monster mills in Belfast.
Similarly none of the ship building would have been even close to Harland and Wollf in size.

To my knowledge the biggest industrial employers were Brewing and Biscuit Making , what industry there was here was not of sufficient scale to have made the lasting impact that it would have been in, for example , the North of England.

owenc

nvm.

GCU Flexible Demeanour

I'd guess a lot of the industries were Protestant owner and run, and probably not regarded as part of the Dev comely maidens image of what it is to be Irish. Certainly, Dev made no secret of the fact of his hostility to urbanisation and industrialisation.

So where's the heritage? I suppose, as folk have said, the bulk of Irish industrialisation was around Belfast, and was therefore lost on independence. Why did it not catch on elsewhere? Hard to know. There have been seemingly innovative companies with potential, like Rigby rifles, one of which is on display in the Collins Barracks museum or Grubbs. A Scotsman called Dunlop allegedly invented the first pneumatic tyre in Dublin.

I'd expect there is a heritage of some kind in the Republic. But not one that would have been cherished in the formative years of the State.

CDfm

Dunlops had a factory in Cork AFAIK as did Ford Carmakers..

Post the 18th Century Famine in 1740/41 you had a boom which resulted in the building of Georgian Dublin btw.

Canal building and railroad building was also manual labour intensive and created infrastructure.

mikemac

Majority of heavy industry was in the North East

But we did have an industry which was hugely successful and the remains are still around today.
And that was slate quarrying

Quarrying is centuries old so nothing new.
But it greatly expanded during the Industrial age in Ireland.

In the decade before the famine up to eight hundred people were employed in Killoran slate quarries in North Tipp.
Even today, an employer that size would be considered very significant. Was the largest quarry employer in Ireland and only Wales had larger quarries in the whole of the UK

In an era before trade unions and workers rights, it was considered a good employer.
Working with slates is dangerous at the best of times, fall down this hill and you'd be cut to ribbons :eek:


So work was not done on wet days and employees were put on half-pay. Unusual I would think when most casual labour like dockers did not have this

There is an old railine in the area too, not for trains. Containers would be hauled up on pulleys and cables and sent back down in an controlled manner back down. Pretty cool to see a railline and rail bridges in the area

At it's peak it supplied slate to Nenagh Courthouse built in 1843 among other projects


In the early ninenties, there was a rooftop protest by a ex prisoner who was on the roof for two days flinging slates down onto the car park. Made national news

Ireland and Wales produce what's know as blue slate or Banger blue after Bangor Co. Down. This slate was used throughout Ireland or was sent down the Shannon to Limerick for export to Scotland where it was in demand. The Netherlands and Belgium also which had built up cities but no ready supply of slate.

If you travel Limerick to Dublin you'd know Birdhill, well before the motorway you did.
Birdhill is on the railline to Limerick so a spur was to be put in northwards. The Tipp side of the Shannon is quite hilly but a line was put north to Killaloe so on the Clare side in 1862

Pics:


But famine ruined the business after few had money to spend on slate and it never recovered from it's peak
It was revived in the 20s and saw great business in the next two decades as first the Economic war affected imports from Wales and the Emergency affected imports also.

A major storm caused a landslide in the fifties and production eventually petered out

It's open today for craft and restoration and commissioned projects

And we've found a new use in diving and a diving school

Dev comely maidens image of what it is to be Irish

Poor Dev must be one of the misquoted men around, he never said comely maidens. I don't know how that started

GCU Flexible Demeanour

mikemac wrote: »

Poor Dev must be one of the misquoted men around, he never said comely maidens. I don't know how that started

I'm not sure his meaning was misquoted. Judge for yourself

.... a land whose countryside would be bright with cosy homesteads, whose fields and villages would be joyous with the sounds of industry, with the romping of sturdy children, the contest of athletic youths and the laughter of happy maidens, whose firesides would be forums for the wisdom of serene old age.

As for his hostility to urbanisation, we've his thoughts on the value of the Ardnacrusha scheme from the Dail record in 1927

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie/D/0021/D.0021.192710260041.html

We believe that the whole object of economics ought to be to try to give to the greatest number possible in this island a decent, comfortable living. In order to work towards that ideal, we will have to ask ourselves if we are going to get towards it by building up great industries or by the ruralisation of industries. As far as we are concerned, one of the things that we are glad of is that the development of electricity power will give an opportunity of bringing power to the people in the country, instead of bringing human beings up from the country and putting them in the slums of the large cities to starve.

We are glad that the electrical power of the country is being developed. We have differences as to how it should have been begun, and the manner in which it should have been carried out, but we are glad that an effort has been made to utilise the water power of the country and build up electrical power, so that we may be able to ruralise life and our industries generally.

In order to have the life that we wish our people to have we want primarily to provide for their requirements in food, clothing and shelter. How do we stand in this country for food? Everybody knows that, even if we had two or three times our population, our resources are such that no human being should starve. We believe that the primary object of agriculture in this country should be to supply to the individuals in the country the food that they need, and that before any exports or anything else should be considered that primary object ought to be looked after. Because we believe that we can be self-supporting. There is no doubt about that, as far as food is concerned. As far as clothing is concerned we could, if we set out to do it, make ourselves largely self-supporting.

We are importing at present articles that we should not import, and in the manufacture of which employment could be given to many people who are now out of work. If we set out to meet our own needs in food, in clothing and in housing, we could do so, with perhaps the exception of timber, in the case of housing. If we decided to build from the materials that we have, we could build the houses that are necessary to shelter our people. If we had food, clothing and shelter, and if, in addition to that, we developed the industry which is most suitable for us, so as to be able to get the necessary imports which it would buy for us in return—the raw materials that we require—I believe that you would not have a man, woman or child in this island willing to work without work to do.

I remember RTE broadcasting an archived interview with Todd Andrews a while back where he described Dev as a Maoist, and his comely maidens speech (tell me you don't know which one I mean) as 'pure Maoism'.

Yahew

Yes, he was a bit like Mao, or Pol Pot with regards to urban centres.

And, less sinisterly, Jefferson,who wanted the US to be a bucolic paradise of independent farmers and artisans. To be fair, closer to Jefferson who believed that farmers had property rights.

Tayto, I found out today, was the first company in the world to make flavoured crisps ( the first being Cheese n Onion). Until then crisps came with salt packets.

ejmaztec

CDfm wrote: »

Dunlops had a factory in Cork AFAIK as did Ford Carmakers..

Post the 18th Century Famine in 1740/41 you had a boom which resulted in the building of Georgian Dublin btw.

Canal building and railroad building was also manual labour intensive and created infrastructure.

Wasn't it the first Ford factory to open in Europe, and the first one in Europe to close down?:(

Delancey

GCU Flexible Demeanour wrote: »

I'd guess a lot of the industries were Protestant owner and run,

Excellent point and I would agree that would not have not have endeared them to the likes of FF.
A good example of the large protestant employer would have been the Goodbody factory in Clara Co. Offaly which employed hundreds at its peak in the manufacture of old fashioned Jute sacks - a major employer until someone invented the plastic sack .
The family are now better known for the stockbroking and legal firms they started but their initial wealth came from the Jute operation.

As an aside - some here may remember the violent death of a priest at the wedding of the daughter of a wealthy Clara family about 20 years ago - the death occured in what was formerly the Goodbody family home.

CDfm

ejmaztec wrote: »

Wasn't it the first Ford factory to open in Europe, and the first one in Europe to close down?:(

Henry had Cork connections and there also was something about an unclaimed estate of a coachbuilder named Egan who worked closely with him.

Jack Lynch had a Ford Granada as his official car as Taoiseach.

Delancey

Sometime in the 1970's Henry Ford III visited Cork as part of celebrations to mark the 50th or 60th or 70th anniversary of the plant there ( can't remember which ).
For all his nice words though it later emerged that he had already given the order to shut down the Cork factory which was beset by a lousy industrial relations atmosphere and abysmal levels of productivity when compared to bigger Ford plants in the UK and on the continent.

CDfm

Delancey wrote: »

Sometime in the 1970's Henry Ford III visited Cork as part of celebrations to mark the 50th or 60th or 70th anniversary of the plant there ( can't remember which ).
For all his nice words though it later emerged that he had already given the order to shut down the Cork factory which was beset by a lousy industrial relations atmosphere and abysmal levels of productivity when compared to bigger Ford plants in the UK and on the continent.

So I suppose industrial relations and the labour movement must feature in any history.

I seem to remember reading that William Martin Murphy investors had 20% less profit on investments in Southern Ireland than elsewhere in the UK and NI and at school we read about him as the businessman from hell. His talent was turning around loss making businesses.

EDIT

link

http://www.ucc.ie/chronicon/bielfra.htm

jonniebgood1

As seen on the historic maps lime kilns were widespread. They were a very small sign of industry. One of the largest sites was the Ballincollig royal gunpowder mills which presumably was part of the armed forces of Britain. It covered a massive area although the figure in this link is different than I have seen previously:

The ruins of over sixty buildings associated with gunpowder manufacture are still scattered throughout the 130 acres of the present complex making it the most extensive in the whole of Europe.

One of its most important features is the main canal which runs the length of the complex and which originally acted as a means of transport within the factory as well as providing the power to drive the waterwheels of the mills and a turbine which drove the sawmill.

The key process of gunpowder manufacture was the grinding together (incorporation) of saltpetre, sulphur and charcoal under millstones set on edge. This process was called milling which is why the whole factory came to be called Powder Mills. These mills were once the second biggest gunpowder works in the whole of Britain and Ireland. (Waltham Abbey in Essex being the largest, which went on to develop chemical synthesis based explosives). The Ballincollig gunpowder mills retains the integrity of its nineteenth century design.

There were eventually 24 grinding mills in all, each pair divided by a free standing blast wall to prevent a chain reaction should an explosion occur in one mill. A reconstructed mill with working machinery now stands in the former visitors' centre with eleven blast walls and four charge houses where the dampened mixed ingredients known as the green charge, were stored before incorporation.

Further processes of powder compression, powder size separation, drying, glazing, and packaging were carried out in separate buildings in the complex. http://www.ballincolligheritage.org/site_gunpowder_mills.html

It was a large employer in the cork area and an important part of the countries industrial heritage for over 100 years.

The Ballincollig Gunpowder Mills were established in 1794 by Charles Henry Leslie a leading Cork bank family. Eleven years later, when Napoleon's control of France posed a grave threat to Britain the British Board of Ordnance bought the mills from Leslie. As well as this the Army Barracks was built in town to protect the supply of gunpowder.



In 1837 the mills employed about 200 workers and produced about 16,000 barrels of gunpowder. By the mid 1880's the Royal Gunpowder Mills, Ballincollig was one of the largest Industrial establishments in the Cork area. About 500 men and boys were employed and a wide range of skills were in use in the mills - coopering, millwrighting, carpentry as well as other skills associated with gunpowder production. http://www.cork-guide.ie/attractions/gunpmill.htm

The buildings on the site were photographed by a user of this site and can be seen at http://www.abandonedireland.com/Ballincollig_Gunpowder_Mills.html

The 2 main reasons for the location of the mills was the location of the river Lee which was the main power source. Secondly one of the ingredients charcoal was sourced locally. The other components were imported from abroad.

goose2005

ejmaztec wrote: »

I've always had the impression that the Industrial Revolution was deliberately kept away from Ireland, with the exception of token efforts in the big cities. It seems to me that Ireland was regarded as a bread-basket for mainland Britain. Of course I could be wrong, and it could also have been that Ireland didn't have the vast quantities of raw materials (eg coal) that they had across the water, so didn't benefit much.

The upside to me of this situation, is that Ireland is greener as a result of not been turned into a heavily industrialised powerhouse.

"deliberately kept away from Ireland" doesn't make much sense, as this wasn't in the days when governments had industrial development policies. Ireland had no coal, little wood, no iron.

Also ignores the huge linen and other industries in Ulster.

CDfm

@goose2005 Protectionist policies by Britain meant Ireland could not grow trade with it for money create employment etc and buy its traded goods.

Just a few thoughts.

Flax growing was just one area.

What were the nature of the controls in term's of customs duties on Irish products and wasnt this what the United Irishmen protested against. They wanted businesses like their British middle class neighbours.

Were there also structural rules like did looms need licencing etc ?

How did the penal laws restict enterprise and access to trades and professions and who was affected..

jonniebgood1

CDfm wrote: »

@goose2005 Protectionist policies by Britain meant Ireland could not grow trade with it for money create employment etc and buy its traded goods.
.....
What were the nature of the controls in term's of customs duties on Irish products and wasnt this what the United Irishmen protested against. They wanted businesses like their British middle class neighbours.
.....

The act of union meant that Ireland should have been part of a free trade zone which should have had economic benefits as it gave a wide affluent market for Irish goods. Why this didnt happen may have been due to Ireland being in a bad position to start out. In 'A Death-Dealing Famine: The Great Hunger in Ireland by Christine Kinealy she states in relation to the act of Union that 'As a consequence, Ireland became absorbed into a free trade zone in which, having a less well-developed economy, she was inevitably at a disadvantage'. This came in over a period of time to allow adjustment.

It was long believed that the backwardness of the Irish economy in the first half of the nineteenth century was a result of the abolition of protective tariffs in the decades after the Union. By the terms of the Union, Ireland and Britain were to be a single free-trade area. However, it was agreed that some Irish industries needed time to adjust. Accordingly, it was arranged that there should be a 10% duty on some eighteen products entering Ireland until 1821. These included leather, glass, and furniture. Woollen and cotton goods got even more favourable terms. In 1820, these duties were reviewed and the Government first suggested that the 10% rate should remain until 1825, then be phased out, and finally abolished in 1840. However, the free traders in the Government had all duties abolished in 1824. Unprotected Irish industries then faced large-scale English competition. http://multitext.ucc.ie/d/Economic_Depression

So rather than free trade helping Irish industry it would seem that the already widely developed industrial strength of Britain was to strong. This together with the fast developing transport network meant that a starter industry in Ireland was not able to compete in most cases with an established English counterpart. Raw materials were also significant in this era.

Ireland had little coal and no iron. Consequently, in the age of steam, it was handicapped from the start in any competition with the rest of the United Kingdom. Raw materials could be imported but this raised costs. Ports close to Britain enjoyed more favourable conditions.

cue

One of the areas we studied in archaeology was the lead mines in Glendalough. They supplied all the lead for the roofs that were built in the industrial age in Dublin, so it was booming at one stage. A lot of the miners were specially brought over from Cornwall as they were more more experienced in working with the material than the native wicklow miners. They had cottages built for them which would have been fashioned in the same style as English victorian cottages. You can still see the footprints of some of them along the road which takes you to the mines. The mines themselves are abandoned now and they look amazing as all the old buildings are still there at the far end of Glendalough valley. Well worth a trip to.

slowburner

cue wrote: »

One of the areas we studied in archaeology was the lead mines in Glendalough. They supplied all the lead for the roofs that were built in the industrial age in Dublin, so it was booming at one stage. A lot of the miners were specially brought over from Cornwall as they were more more experienced in working with the material than the native wicklow miners. They had cottages built for them which would have been fashioned in the same style as English victorian cottages. You can still see the footprints of some of them along the road which takes you to the mines. The mines themselves are abandoned now and they look amazing as all the old buildings are still there at the far end of Glendalough valley. Well worth a trip to.

Those Cornish boys weren't confined to Glendalough. They were heavily involved in stone masonry in Aughrim too. And the Avoca mines were very much dependent on the skills of Cornish miners throughout the 19th C , indeed you can see their influence today all over the area in a herringbone style of dry stone wall. I have only heard the term for these walls spoke - don't have a clue how to spell it but I suspect it is Welsh - sounds like 'clouth'.
Roe stoneworks near Carrickmines are direct descendents of Cornish workers who (from recollection) were brought over to increase output from the Wicklow gold rush.
Interestingly, Parys Mountain in Anglesey exploited a similar geology to Avoca. I think the two are exploiting the same lode, if that's the right term. I spent a day with two dry stone wallers from there touring around Avoca, looking at walls - as you do. They said that they could easily be in Anglesey based on the type of mine workings here and the dry stone wall styles.
Here's one of the Avoca mines in Google maps
http://maps.google.com/?ll=52.884411,-6.208305&spn=0.010151,0.024526&t=h&z=16&vpsrc=6

and Parys mountain in Wales
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Parys+Mountain,+United+Kingdom&hl=en&ll=53.386477,-4.347968&spn=0.020067,0.049052&sll=53.389676,-4.343376&sspn=0.160522,0.392418&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=15

slowburner

There's an interesting link here on the movements of Irish and Cornish miners

CDfm

Very much like subsistance mining.

I was in Aughrim and met an old miner who told me that he had moved to Yorkshire where the coal seams were 8 and 10 feet high and he didnt understand what the English miners were complaining about cos in Ireland the seams were poor quality coal and they mined 1 or 2 feet and moved it by hand.

It was uneconomical to ship low grade coal in for the power stations and presumably steam train engines aswell.

I wonder what fuels were used before, wood & turf.

How much of Ireland was covered in timber and over what period was it cut down?

Presumably, pre the industrial revoloution there was little by way of traded goods. Are there any trade figures or statistics on what was traded , import and export wise.

It is stuck in my mind that a reason behind the United Irishmen protestant /middle class support was economic and that they also wanted to be factory owners etc like their UK counterparts. Take Lord Edward Fitzgerald , a younger son of the Duke of Leinster might have wanted to make money from trade and may have been a capitalist like was happening in Britain.

So a question is were there economic motives behind the rebellions ?

ejmaztec

I think that the situation would have only been slightly better, had Ireland been an independent state at the time. It would have wanted a piece of the action, but would have ended up being charged over the odds for any raw materials being imported from the UK.

They just seemed to be scratching around with nothing at all happening on a large scale outside the North-East, which was hugely advantaged by its close proximity to Scotland and it's vast coal resources.

On Valentia Island off Kerry, some of the output from the slate quarries tiled the roof of the Houses of Parliament. I can't think of any other contributions that took place here in Kerry.

Corsendonk

Well the major industry in North Co Dublin was hosiary so much so that Balbriggan in the Oxford Dictionary is "a knitted cotton fabric, used for stockings and underwear".

http://www.balbriggan.net/smyco.htm

The hosiery and linen businesses were the central industries in the Balbriggan area for about two hundred and fifty years. Both saw the best and worst of times and this story outlines the industry and its link to the prosperity of the region.
Any industry, which not only outlived the commercial restrictions of the 18th and 19th.centuries, but also waxed strong while others declined, must surely be of special interest.
Where relentless laws and heavy taxation, where high tariffs and the imposition of every embargo which the most cunning mind could evolve failed for over 250 years, still defeat had to be conceded when the marketing policy which had sustained these industries was not geared to match the wholesome onslaught from the Orient.
At the turn of this present century the town of Balbriggan was renowned throughout the world for its quality textile products. A writer in 1909 declared that if ever Shackleton covered the last few miles still remaining to reach the South Pole it was more than likely he will find the inhabitants of that far distant land wearing “Real Balbriggan” hosiery.
What was to become the prosperity maker for Balbriggan had its roots on the northern fringes of Balrothery. In the 18th century, Balrothery, then the main population centre, overshadowed the then small hamlet of Balbriggan.
Balrothery, referred to as the ‘town of the knights’, had been an area of some religious significance for many centuries and had several small manufacturing industries. Their main outputs were basic furniture, tanned products, beer and biscuits. From the wheels of the local grain mills came the basic ingredient to produce the biscuits which were well known to seafarers in that they were the most suitable and long keeping of ship’s biscuits.
Significantly these mills were situated on the northern side of Balrothery, in order to make use of the several streams which drained the hills and marsh ground to the south of Balrothery.

The Early Years.
The hosiery business is recorded as having been carried out in the Balrothery area prior to 1740. It is stated as having been very successful although it is clear that the ‘industry’ was really only a cottage industry which served the needs of the local, prosperous, inhabitants and also the traded with Dublin, 20 miles distant.
In 1740, Mr. John Mathews established the trade on a solid basis, and for over 25 years he employed a large number of workers knitting fine silk stockings. These stockings were expensive to produce and not very hard wearing. This business lapsed in the early 1760’s and was resumed shortly afterwards by Mr. Fullam.
Mr. Fullam, who displayed much originality in the improvements he introduced in developing his products, was responsible for the introduction to the market of a new concept in stockings known as “Economies”. “Economies” were made from two materials, silk and cotton; the ankle portion of the foot and the top portion of the stocking were made from cotton and the remaining area, which might be on display, from silk. This development had two main advantages, a considerable cost reduction and the wider market availability to a less costly product. Increased demand was the direct result.
Mr. Hatton acquired the business in 1775 and although only a short time in command he had a considerable and beneficial influence on the affairs of the business. The family of Hatton left a further impact on the area; two place-names, Hatton’s Hill and Hatton’s Farm were in general use until recent times. The late Paddy Murphy, who did extensive research into the history of industry in Fingal, rated the contribution of the Hatton family very highly.


1780 was to see Mr. Hatton joined by his cousin, Joseph Smyth, when the firm of Smyth and Co. was established and traded for almost exactly 200 years. That year also saw the business move to Balbriggan proper.
For many years after the formation of the company the hosiery manufacture went on apace; adding regularly to its improvements and most importantly, keeping in touch with developments in technology and machine design. The progress made by Messrs Smyth and Co. actually blotted out the smaller manufacturers while their workers were taken over by the new firm. Smyth and Co. gradually and steadily gained in reputation and popular favour through the excellence, quality and style of their goods until the name of Balbriggan was known all over the globe and the products from Balbriggan looms their way to every market from China to Peru.
During this period of expansion for Messrs Smyth and Co., entrepreneurs, especially in England, were looking to Irish low cost labour and high skill to improve their profit margins. Thomas Ogle from Preston in England was one such man. He had the foresight and pioneering attitude, which drives the thirst for greater return on investment, and he saw Balbriggan as a potential area with a suitable skill base. It is recorded that on 5th.August, 1806 that Thomas Ogle made an agreement with William Suttell, a flax dresser from Leeds, to proceed to Balbriggan, Ireland to take charge and manage the flax mill shortly to be built there. That flax mill did eventually come into being, although far later than intended, and the Gallen family purchased the establishment in 1883. The Gallen family still runs the business although not producing to the extent of former years

1867 was to see the building of a fine, handsome factory premises for Smyth & Co.; convenient to the Great Northern Railway Station at Balbriggan into which was put the most up-to-date machinery. This splendid factory was burned to the ground in a horrendous fire in the year 1882. It was instantly rebuilt, but on a larger scale and refitted with all the latest machinery available in Europe. This machinery was to herald a new era in stocking manufacture as it enabled Smyth & Co. to manufacture Cashmere and Lisle thread goods which had not hitherto been made in Balbriggan, the trade having been chiefly confined to Silk and Cotton.
That fire presented other opportunities also, skilled labour not fully utilised during the rebuilding programme attracted the attention of the English firm of Deeds, Templar and Co. The added bonus of having premium prices for products made at Balbriggan, by now a generic name, must have been almost a licence to print money. Using the area just to the east of the Railway, at Sea banks, Deeds, Templar and Co. traded as the Balbriggan Sea Banks Hosiery Company from 1884 to its destruction in 1920 at the hands of the Black and Tans.

The 1901 and 1911 census does show quite a few embroiders in Skerries and Rush.

To accommodate further the increasing trade Smyth and Co. engaged full-time instructresses to go round the villages of the north county – Rush, Skerries, Lusk, Swords, Naul etc, teaching young girls to embroider stockings, and by this means a very lucrative cottage industry was formed which gave off-site work to almost three hundred people.

Drawing of Smyth Factory

CDfm

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think that the situation would have only been slightly better, had Ireland been an independent state at the time. It would have wanted a piece of the action, but would have ended up being charged over the odds for any raw materials being imported from the UK.

They just seemed to be scratching around with nothing at all happening on a large scale outside the North-East, which was hugely advantaged by its close proximity to Scotland and it's vast coal resources.
.

So it was farming and the potato or emigration then.

Anyone have any comparisons of Irish and British wages ?

HellsAngel

There is a lot of bull about the UK and Ireland and make no bones about it. When the act of union was forced through in 1801 we were poor but one of the most populous countries in Europe and was industrialising at the same rate as other like economies on the continent. By the time 26 of our counties left the UK we were among the least populous of European countries and our economy was essentially a peasant one. Owing to our involvement with the United Kingdom, we are the only country in Europe not to have experienced an industrial revolution. Indeed, we went backwards from a proto-industrial economy to an essential subsistence agrarian economy over the period of our involvement with the UK.

We are possibly the only country in Europe to have experienced a population drop over the 19th century. The average European country grew by a multiple of 2.5, we fell in population by a third 1801-1914 (halving in population since 1845). Our population haemorrhage over the course of our involvement with the United Kingdom is incomparable to anywhere else at any time outside of times of great war and or extreme famine.

Our current trifle (an properly bubble and consequential fiscal crisis) is nothing comparable to previous diastsers under British rule. We will recover from this comparable inconvenience within a few years and hopefully corrupt, cronyist Fianna Fail Gombeen economics will be thrown to the dust bin.

slowburner

CDfm wrote: »

Very much like subsistance mining.

I was in Aughrim and met an old miner who told me that he had moved to Yorkshire where the coal seams were 8 and 10 feet high and he didnt understand what the English miners were complaining about cos in Ireland the seams were poor quality coal and they mined 1 or 2 feet and moved it by hand.

It was uneconomical to ship low grade coal in for the power stations and presumably steam train engines aswell.

I wonder what fuels were used before, wood & turf.

How much of Ireland was covered in timber and over what period was it cut down?

Presumably, pre the industrial revoloution there was little by way of traded goods. Are there any trade figures or statistics on what was traded , import and export wise.

It is stuck in my mind that a reason behind the United Irishmen protestant /middle class support was economic and that they also wanted to be factory owners etc like their UK counterparts. Take Lord Edward Fitzgerald , a younger son of the Duke of Leinster might have wanted to make money from trade and may have been a capitalist like was happening in Britain.

So a question is were there economic motives behind the rebellions ?

Worth a thread in itself CD

patsman07

Im currentlly compiling information on a Spade Mill which my ancestors owned. It was in North Louth on the Flurry river. A man called Don Johnson has written in the Louth Archeological and Historical Journal about the various mills on that river. Its not a particularly large river but its amazing how many mills were using its water in the 19th century. There were paper, saw, spade, corn and 4 bleach bills on a stretch about 4 miles long. Mill races still criss cross the landscape from that era. Its incredible how enterprising people were back then. Reading about the mills really upset my misconception that every Catholic in 19th century Ireland was a small time potato farmer and every protestant a landlord.

CDfm

i have found the same btw

jonniebgood1

CDfm wrote: »

........ , people drank beer, and before Guinness the country was dotted with breweries and breweries bought the ingredients for it.
........
Beer didn't get transported in buckets -you had coopers, bottle companies and so forth.
........

Dotted with 247 breweries in 1837 apparantly!

It was a huge industry and it grew over the years. Spirits were also widely produced with high quality product becoming synonymous with Ireland, which has continued to the present day. The following links are from Irish tourism: image, culture, and identity By Michael Cronin, Barbara O'Connor, pg. 86,87.




So did the big breweries buy out the smaller ones or price them out of business? This industry was able to export to keep growing. The breweries survived by doing this so it was necessary but it mirrors in many ways what the strong British industries did. That they were able to do this shows that it was possible and goes in the face of accusations against Britain that she restrained Ireland for her own benefit. So why did breweries succeed where other industry failed?