APHCI

spireland32

In Feb 2011 the APHCI-Association Of Plumbing And Heating Contractors Of Ireland was set-up, to give us a voice. We have linked up with a long established group in cork and have members all over the country now- North South East West.

We set up the APHCI because of many issues but mainly due to the SEAI grants- Penalty points, 10sq earth, etc and Bord Gais dominance in the market- Using the customers base we gave them down thru the years as theyre own for boiler upgrades etc, Offering 0% finance which is putting the small contractor out of business.

We got on to government and seai about our concerns but they didnt want to know. We recently got advise and found out EU law was being infringed...Now government is all ears. We met with the top man in seai also and he now wants to listen to us.

This is a brief overview of whats happening..... We have a very very important meeting in the RED COW HOTEL ON 8TH SEP 2011 we need you, the RGI contractors there for a vote on all this, but you need to be registered with the aphci. If you are registered with aphci please arrive at 6.50-7pm. If you are not arrive at 6pm.

Please attend if at all possible. Tell fellow RGI about this and the APHCI. We have made huge gains in a few short months. We need you there to secure a desent future for our industry. Thanks for reading. PM me or email spireland32@gmail.com with any queries.

spireland32

Just to confirm the extraordinary general meeting of the APHCI is taking place this Thursday 8th sepember 2011 in the Red Cow hotel naas road. New members will be warmly welcomed please arrive at 6-6.45pm to complete membership. The more members the better as we are stronger as a unit with a large base.

spireland32

Big reminder Of the APHCI meeting in the red cow tonight. New members arrive at 6. Members at 6.45

spireland32

APHCI would be delighted with any new members looking to join... We have a consultant company working hard on our case and they are making steady progress. Get involed with us... its your industry and livelyhood at stake here.

spireland32

APHCI meeting in the red cow tonight....7 pm for members... new members 6-6.30pm to join €100. A voice for plumbers. We took on bord gais and won. Join us

JohnnieK

spireland32 wrote: »

APHCI meeting in the red cow tonight....7 pm for members... new members 6-6.30pm to join €100. A voice for plumbers. We took on bord gais and won. Join us

What about electric Ireland and airtricity.

spireland32

spireland32 wrote: »

APHCI meeting in the red cow tonight....7 pm for members... new members 6-6.30pm to join €100. A voice for plumbers. We took on bord gais and won. Join us

Good for you plumbers;)

APHCI would have more credibility with me if they made noises about the shocking way the "Gas" industry is run, the voice you have is wasted in someways, imagine if APHCI hooked up with a union and offered a element of protection to its members or God forbid pushed for competent trades people only i.e. qualified plumbers to be allowed to work as RGI's and got rid of the fruitloops that are working in the gas industry taking much more money than BG away from ye plumbers.

I hope your meeting goes well:)

spireland32

Plumbers and heating engineers... we are making noise ... CER and RGI don't want to know. It's frightening actually. We''ve been on rte, the journal, newstalk, tv 3, daily mail front page spread, the examier, the independent. Have meet with 8 TD's and explained the issues in the industry. Why dont come onboard and help Gary instead of being a keyboard warrior.

spireland32

spireland32 wrote: »

Plumbers and heating engineers... we are making noise ... CER and RGI don't want to know. It's frightening actually. We''ve been on rte, the journal, newstalk, tv 3, daily mail front page spread, the examier, the independent. Have meet with 8 TD's and explained the issues in the industry. Why dont come onboard and help Gary instead of being a keyboard warrior.

We all have a calling;)

Nothing APHCI has proposed resonates with me as you seem to be dealing with a part of the industry I have no connection to as I'm to lazy to fit boilers, in saying that I was more than happy to join APHCI and give money to the cause as your the only game in town, but sadly I was rejected:eek: so I spent my hundred euro on women and drink:D

I was a member of the GMB for many years and worked out of the most militant BG depot in London, I have spent many years fighting for workers rights and safe working practises so forgive me for not buying in to what your selling, I do wish APHCI the best it's just not my cup of tea, but if you want to protest about introducing a element of safety and professionalism then I'll get my coat and join you;) otherwise Im happy to sit on me IPad bitching at the world, thank you:D

spireland32

spireland32 wrote: »

Plumbers and heating engineers....

I'm a pedantic gasman:P

spireland32

From your posts I can see you enthusiasm and attention to safety etc which I have to say I admire these with all the horror stories we all have heard and seen.

Some of the stories going around tonight...
8-9mbar working pressure, an lpg calor bottle connected to a Nat gas boiler because they were cut off and plenty more and CER RGII don't want to know. Its not there remit apperantly.

I want it like the UK properly run and managed. So much red tape here when trying to get things done and changed, it's frustrating.

spireland32

JohnnieK wrote: »

spireland32 wrote: »

APHCI meeting in the red cow tonight....7 pm for members... new members 6-6.30pm to join €100. A voice for plumbers. We took on bord gais and won. Join us

What about electric Ireland and airtricity.

Not too bother with them as they operate on the same level as a contractor. They don't have a facility on the gas bill for work done. They don't have the gas customers details that bord gais had to contact people. Sierra are entering the heating industry as a independent company.

spireland32

APHCI training and information evening on ideal logic gas boilers in partnership with Davies. Free €50 voucher off a your next purchase of a logic boiler. Starts at 7pm red cow 25/9/12.

New members very welcome... please arrive 6.30-6.45 to sign up. Its a €100 membership. And you'll get APHCI stickers and a listing on the website. You also get the €50 boiler voucher back so it's only costing you €50.

DGOBS

Gary, why were you rejected by APHCI?

I can't remember, I got a email back from them knocking me back after I sent my details and I wasn't really interested in the contents.

spireland32

If you want to send me your details by PM I'll look into it for you no problem. May have just been an error

DGOBS

I would be very interested to find out too, given our background/experience!

spireland32

Exactly my thought

spireland32

spireland32 wrote: »

If you want to send me your details by PM I'll look into it for you no problem. May have just been an error

Thank you for the offer, your a gentleman, but I'll come back to you on that offer when APHCI start making a impact in my working environment, Gary.

spireland32

Is there an angle you'd like the APHCI to take? Or what would help you and your business? Would like to hear and I can raise it with relevant people. PM if you wish.

I went to a job yesterday that numerious RGII's have called to and charged well with no repair, it was a 3 year old system boiler which has not worked since May, customer was in bits due to the experience.

All that was wrong was the pump had burnt out as there was no cylinder stat or motorised valve so the boiler stayed on when the other zones had shut down during the programmed on time, the flow around the hot water circuit was very restricted due to the balancing valve being nearly closed to push the heat out to the new rads that had been fitted.

I put my head in a 4 year old boiler today for a fellow RGI who was struggling, I identified fault was most likely a defective APS but a slight chance it was the PCB so the RGI has decided to replace the boiler

I went to a job last week where the RGI didn't know that boilers need to be converted to work on LPG.

I have been to another job where the flow and return between the boiler downstairs and the cylinder/manifold upstairs is 1/2 inch and the heating doesn't work very well:eek:


So taking into account the above if I had a magic wand to go with my Saturday night tutu then I would have a independent body run by seasoned and proven tradesmen with the power to police the gas industry. Forcing all Rgi's to implement good/safe working practices to a acceptable standard, any not meeting that standard should be directed to training centres to receive real world qualification and training ie.. City and Guilds, any RGI's not improving over time and a possible danger should be prevented from trading to prevent needless death or injury to their customers.

I would like the industry policed so that any works done can be inspected and action taken on behalf of the householder when work doesn't meet a excepted standard, I'd like RGI to signify a competent and safe gas engineer that will work to a given standard, I'd like RGI's to be qualified with more than a 10 day course, I would like test papers to be honest and no answers given, what's the point in taking a paper when your given the answers

My income has been effected greatly by the influx of some unqualified RGI's who have no business working in the gas industry but yet get to have a impact by charging silly prices or working for low rates with larger companys, which isn't the same as price naturally reducing due to the change in the Country

slavetothegrind

great post Gary.

Only today visited an industrial gas drier 50kw "converted " to lpg by an RGI who filled in the nat gas nozzle with solder and drilled a smaller oriface, fitted it back and then gave up when it didn't light.

FFS stay away if you are that clueless.

Also i find it rediculous that you have to pay 3 grand for a 10 day handholding exercise in order to work on small domestic appliances.

Wheres the regulation in industrial installations?

And when it does come are they going to rob us of three grand or will they give us a proper written and practical evaluation of our skills?
At least then we have some hope of avoiding the fiasco in the domestic scene.

spireland32

Hi lads I brought your concerns with the board... most have been brought up before and they are working hard to change the industry for the better. It will take time but feel we can achieve it. The APHCI is stronger in numbers so please tell others about it please

Nedser101

Hi spire land 32 ,just wondering do you have to be a qualified plumber to register with APHCI

spireland32

APHCI Meeting Tomorrow Night.

New Members welcome can join at door 6.30pm €100

Information & Training Evening

Tuesday 12th February 2013 

Food at 6:45pm - Meeting 7:30pm sharp 

Phil Hogan TD, will address the APHCI on the water metering project and forthcoming plumbing regulations.

Also Potterton/Myson/Baxi will be there.

New Venue:
Louis Fitzgerald Hotel, Newlands Cross, Naas Road, Dublin. Loads of free parking

Food Served: (after work)
All future APHCI meetings will begin at 7.30pm Sharp. Food will be served free of charge from 6.45pm.

Free Bar:
A free bar will be open each evening

Glow-worm
Vokera
Worcester Bosch
Ideal
Plumb Centre-Chadwicks

All coming up in the next few months

spireland32

Big turnout tonight... thanks to everyone who came. Excellent presentation by bdr thermea. Next meeting on 12/3/13 Worcester Bosch.

Glow worm will be doing an information evening in Cork on 26/2/13, Limerick on 27/2/13 and Waterford on 28/2/13

spireland32

APHCI meeting Bridge Hotel Waterford, tomorrow evening. Glow Worm information and training evening. New members are very welcome to join at the door on the night. Lots of interest/enquiries over the last few days.

spireland32

Green Hills Hotel Ennis Rd Limerick tonight. New members very welcome

spireland32

Next tuesday 12/3/13 Worcester Bosch training evening. Boiler give away on the night. Come along for what will be a fantastic night with a leading boiler manufacturer.

6:30 New members sign-up
6:45 Free bar and food
7:30 Meeting starts

spireland32

Tuesday 7th of April, Glow worm information and training evening. At Louis Fitzgerald Hotel Naas Rd Dublin. Super evening ahead with prizes on the night. Speak to glow worm technical staff with any questions you might have. Also sales staff to choose the best product for you.

Free food and bar on the night from 6:45pm

New members welcome at 7pm.

Start at 7:30pm

kscobie

Is this for gas installers only, or can any of us oil & solid fuel lads attend ??

EDIT
Sorry, just noticed the date.......

spireland32

kscobie wrote: »

Is this for gas installers only, or can any of us oil & solid fuel lads attend ??

EDIT
Sorry, just noticed the date.......

This is for Plumbing and Heating Contractors. Are you rgi or oftec registered? We know this doesn't really mean any real standard of work as such but have to have some type of entry level into the association.

kscobie

Oftec registered , never really got into the gas, subbed it out if it was required, anything that helps increase the standard/awareness of a standard can only be a good thing

spireland32

Absolutely..... We're hoping to get some info and training evenings sorted for the lads more into the oil side of things. Hope to see you at a meeting sometime. (Bring your oftec ID for registration if you do come along at some point in the future)

spireland32

Munster area meeting at the Rochestown Park Hotel Cork. Mon 30 Sep 7 : 30. Members please attend. Non members join at the door.

Some topics on the night;

our major achievement by the withdrawal of the "10 Day Course". 

progress with our sessions in the Dáil, chaired by the Joint Oireachtas Committee between APHCI and the CER

SEAI are meeting APHCI in early October

The decision by Plumb Centre to sell spare parts to RGIs only

Suppliers Evenings

John Reynolds & Gary Tobin are the munster area board members.

DGOBS

The GID has not been withdrawn, the entry requirements have changed have they not? (Agreed for the better)

gifted

spireland32 wrote: »

Munster area meeting at the Rochestown Park Hotel Cork. Mon 30 Sep 7 : 30. Members please attend. Non members join at the door.

Some topics on the night;

our major achievement by the withdrawal of the "10 Day Course". 

progress with our sessions in the Dáil, chaired by the Joint Oireachtas Committee between APHCI and the CER

SEAI are meeting APHCI in early October

The decision by Plumb Centre to sell spare parts to RGIs only

Suppliers Evenings

John Reynolds & Gary Tobin are the munster area board members.

Every gas spare part shop should only sell to RGI's, makes perfect sense.

spireland32

Absolutely but most suppliers just want a sale unfortunately. But we are working with other suppliers on this topic.

shane0007

spireland32 wrote: »

our major achievement by the withdrawal of the "10 Day Course". 

What's all that? Can you expand please?

JohnnieK

Is there still plumbers out there that have to do the GID?

scudo2

shane0007 wrote: »

What's all that? Can you expand please?

Replaced with the 60% better 16 day cource I think that's what they said at the last RGII meeting in Cork's Silver Springs Hotel.
Mabey it was 18 days !!

Yahoo !!!!

The public is 60% safer

Anybody call a Taxi driver lately ?

shane0007

It was never a 10 day course in the first instance. It was a 12 day course. It is still a 12 day course. The only change to the system is the entry requirements which have now been removed is the entry level of OFTEC. It is now a National Craft Cert for Plumbers, Fitters & Electricians. If you add in the GIS, which is a 6 day course, this is the 18 day course, but it has always been this way!
This has been pushed for the past 3 years anyhow & CER has now agreed. Last acceptance must have completed their GID by 31 Dec 2013.

So my question is still to Spireland, can he expand on the "removal of the 10 day course"?

Don't get me wrong, it's a huge step in the right direction, I just want to know if there is other information regarding my profession that I am missing.
To me, I think the system should mimic that of the UK, where it is a 6 month full time course & then followed by a 6 month "under wing" on-site apprenticeship before you can be allowed to work on gas on your own.

scudo2

shane0007 wrote: »

It was never a 10 day course in the first instance. It was a 12 day course. It is still a 12 day course. The only change to the system is the entry requirements which have now been removed is the entry level of OFTEC. It is now a National Craft Cert for Plumbers, Fitters & Electricians. If you add in the GIS, which is a 6 day course, this is the 18 day course, but it has always been this way!
This has been pushed for the past 3 years anyhow & CER has now agreed. Last acceptance must have completed their GID by 31 Dec 2013.

So my question is still to Spireland, can he expand on the "removal of the 10 day course"?

Don't get me wrong, it's a huge step in the right direction, I just want to know if there is other information regarding my profession that I am missing.
To me, I think the system should mimic that of the UK, where it is a 6 month full time course & then followed by a 6 month "under wing" on-site apprenticeship before you can be allowed to work on gas on your own.

+1 on that. About been like the UK min requirements.

JohnnieK

I was at the end of my first 6 months of my 1st year of my apprenticship when I was alowed to do minor pipe fitting supervised.
When I came out of FAS into my second year and then into collage again I was then alowed to pipe heating and plumbing systems unsupervised. I was in my fourth year before I was alowed to do gas works unsupervised but the foreman would always test with me.

In my opinion this is the way it should be.
If someone want's to work on gas it should be through a proper apprentiship.

Maybe thats just the plumbing snob coming out but hay.

I was in a taxi about a year ago and he had RGI stickers on the car. I asked him what the craic was. He done the GIS and then the GID 2.5 years back and is a registared gas installer, all leagal all bonafide, but he only does the servicing and not installs. By the end of the journy I wanted to punch the face off him, I dont blame him, there was actually no one there to stop him from doing the gis and gid.

It's bad enough he is a part time taxi driver but a part time RGI too.

I was angry before but it all just goes over my head now.

scudo2

JohnnieK wrote: »

I was at the end of my first 6 months of my 1st year of my apprenticship when I was alowed to do minor pipe fitting supervised.
When I came out of FAS into my second year and then into collage again I was then alowed to pipe heating and plumbing systems unsupervised. I was in my fourth year before I was alowed to do gas works unsupervised but the foreman would always test with me.

In my opinion this is the way it should be.
If someone want's to work on gas it should be through a proper apprentiship.

Maybe thats just the plumbing snob coming out but hay.

I was in a taxi about a year ago and he had RGI stickers on the car. I asked him what the craic was. He done the GIS and then the GID 2.5 years back and is a registared gas installer, all leagal all bonafide, but he only does the servicing and not installs. By the end of the journy I wanted to punch the face off him, I dont blame him, there was actually no one there to stop him from doing the gis and gid.

It's bad enough he is a part time taxi driver but a part time RGI too.

I was angry before but it all just goes over my head now.

All this and no random checks on previous jobs is only leading to one outcome........


Totaly agree Johnnee,
But the state is also responcible with all their quick free cources and back to work scheeems.

Shane is right about the better, but not best, by a long way, UK system.

But at least it's totally for boilers. The slight fault been that our old way ment that some plumbers never saw a boiler if all the ever did was bathrooms or something like pipe fitting.
As our training only covered what type of work our employers did.
But at least the weren't Taxi drivers, I also know of a country post man doing oil boilers !

Your training was one of the best ways.
Myself also, over apprentiship + the rest of our working lives.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/plumber-facing-manslaughter-charges-after-carbonmonoxide-poisoning-death-of-woman-on-hen-weekend-29590767.html

Seeing a persons face makes things more real for me and the above link shows two who have been desperately let down.

Both the RGI and the victim would have been served better by a proper gas training system that produced real qualified safe gas engineers.

The mistakes that have been made that have cost lives recently are mistakes that wouldn't have been made with proper training.

How many more lives need to be lost till we stop pretending it's ok to allow some ill prepared RGI's to carry on working under the RGII banner before a real testing procedure is introduced that identifies those RGI 's that need extra training and gives it to them bring us all up to a excepted safe standard. That pretty lady need not have died, very sad.

scudo2

gary71 wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/plumber-facing-manslaughter-charges-after-carbonmonoxide-poisoning-death-of-woman-on-hen-weekend-29590767.html

Seeing a persons face makes things more real for me and the above link shows two who have been desperately let down.

Both the RGI and the victim would have been served better by a proper gas training system that produced real qualified safe gas engineers.

The mistakes that have been made that have cost lives recently are mistakes that wouldn't have been made with proper training.

How many more lives need to be lost till we stop pretending it's ok to allow some ill prepared RGI's to carry on working under the RGII banner before a real testing procedure is introduced that identifies those RGI 's that need extra training and gives it to them bring us all up to a excepted safe standard. That pretty lady need not have died, very sad.

Agree as I know the feeling.

Wished it was also for solid fuel & oil.

The Worlds not perfect but at least lets have the best system possible + regular random spot checks to keep everybody on their toes.

My heart goes out to everybody affected in this case but I do have strong feelings and opinions due to personal experence and STRONGLY recommend that we don't comment till the out come of the case.

We all have our own and possibly simular opinions.
Thanks. MD

Robbie.G

JohnnieK wrote: »

I was at the end of my first 6 months of my 1st year of my apprenticship when I was alowed to do minor pipe fitting supervised.
When I came out of FAS into my second year and then into collage again I was then alowed to pipe heating and plumbing systems unsupervised. I was in my fourth year before I was alowed to do gas works unsupervised but the foreman would always test with me.

In my opinion this is the way it should be.
If someone want's to work on gas it should be through a proper apprentiship.

Maybe thats just the plumbing snob coming out but hay.

I was in a taxi about a year ago and he had RGI stickers on the car. I asked him what the craic was. He done the GIS and then the GID 2.5 years back and is a registared gas installer, all leagal all bonafide, but he only does the servicing and not installs. By the end of the journy I wanted to punch the face off him, I dont blame him, there was actually no one there to stop him from doing the gis and gid.

It's bad enough he is a part time taxi driver but a part time RGI

But John there are lads here that only service and repair that doesn't make them bad fitters in some cases it can make them better than most as they only do one thing so you can get very good at it.
Personly I don't agree with the system that's there and would rather see fitters coming from a trade background.

I think the first question when looking at a RGI should be do they work in a safe manor or are they a danger, this can be identified easily by asking a couple of different cheeky questions on a yearly inspection and if we fail that then it should be flagged and a training process implemented.

Their are many different types of RGI's that come from different backgrounds with different abilitys but I think we should start at the start "are you going to kill somebody."

As APHCI are doing well with getting the ear of the powers that be I'd love it if safe working practise testing was was top of the list of things todo.

(And I'm not trying imply APHCI don't take safety seriously)

Billy Bunting

shane0007 wrote: »

The only change to the system is the entry requirements which have now been removed is the entry level of OFTEC. It is now a National Craft Cert for Plumbers, Fitters & Electricians.

With all due respect to Electricians i can't for the life of me see how they have the requirements, don,t Plasterers also have Trade Certs.

scudo2

Billy Bunting wrote: »

With all due respect to Electricians i can't for the life of me see how they have the requirements, don,t Plasterers also have Trade Certs.

Answer is : RECI operate RGII


It could be worse, imagine if the "Taxi Federation of Ireland" ran it !!!!