2011 RWC General Banter/Team Talk Thread

thomond2006

We can talk about all the teams here, like the Six Nations thread.

http://wc.planetrugby.com/ looks like a good site for RWC news!

During Round 1 of matches, only England vs Argentina & South Africa vs Wales stand out as games that will be competitive.

Anyway I've been looking forward to this World Cup for a long time now, hopefully it will live up to the billing.

On the injury front Wycliff Palu is back available for Australia while Alexis Palisson and Maxime Mermoz will miss France's opener against Japan.

circos

Really looking forward to it. Havent really been hindered by the warmups (in relation to excitement that is), I just love the spectacle that is the world cup!

Roll on the 9th!

and Come on Ireland!!!

DaBomb

I can not wait for it to start only problem is my sleeping pattern will be ruined! :P

theboss80

Alarm clocks being set

Jerseys on

Beer in hand

Volume turned up WAY too high for a morning

Shouting at the tv

Mini heart attacks

Decisions being made before TMO's

Wishing for exciting rugby

Settling for a win

The confusion at team selections

The knock out stages

The I told you so's

The shock defeats

AND ALL BEFORE BREAKFAST

Bring it on

C'mon Ireland

theboss80

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYk2dH7rkoY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmY3UEB50q4

wonton

So who do people reckon will be the strongest of the second tier teams, I think in most cases will can tell who will make it out of the groups but on thing im really looking forward to is some of the lower teams even just putting up a good fight and playing some good matchs against the fellow ranked teams.


Theres a chance of course samoa could make it through above wales.


but as far as the other teams go, who are the strongest would you say?

I seen japan won the asian 5 nations including a match against samoa who the beat australia, and japan also put it up against a strong italian side, would have loved to see them in a game against a weaker side than france and new zealand ( such as scotland........or even ireland)


canada have also being playing some great rugby and I think last year beat a france b side which had some big enough names in it.


not expecting any miracles for them but some games without cricket scores would be nice

Gracelessly Tom

@theboss80... nice clips. Have to say the puma Ireland viral makes me cringe, not sure why.

The England O2 one is brilliant.

Gracelessly Tom

wonton wrote: »

I seen japan won the asian 5 nations including a match against samoa who the beat australia, and japan also put it up against a strong italian side, would have loved to see them in a game against a weaker side than france and new zealand ( such as scotland........or even ireland)

canada have also being playing some great rugby and I think last year beat a france b side which had some big enough names in it.

not expecting any miracles for them but some games without cricket scores would be nice

Thing about Japan and winning the Asian nations cup is you have to remember the standard they are up against in it is very poor. Hong Kong, UAE, Singapore and the might of South Korea! Didn't know they beat Samoa but wouldn't read too much into it as Samoa will have been missing their top players, guys who all played versus Aus.

I think they'll be doing well to get a win and on paper should finish bottom of their group. Mind you, I love watching them play and will certainly be cheering them on in their matches.

As for upsets, like you I think Samoa have the best chance of causing one. Maybe if France got complacent and had a weakened team out Tonga could run them close.

Thing about rugby is there is rarely upsets on the scale of say the football world cup. It's not a case of on their day anyone can beat anyone else.

wonton

actually after checking, they didn't beat samoa, but did win the pacific nations cup which included tongo,fiji and samoa.

I actually think japan and canada could put it up to tonga and definetly couldnt see tonga upsetting france.

JustinDee

wonton wrote: »

I actually think japan and canada could put it up to tonga and definetly couldnt see tonga upsetting france.

Tonga nearly toppled Sth Africa (or Wales) at last RWC. Like Samoa, they are almost two-thirds Kiwis so this RWC will be like home for them.

Edit: It was Sth Africa and they had to score late to win. Tonga also beat Samoa in that group

Gracelessly Tom

wonton wrote: »

actually after checking, they didn't beat samoa, but did win the pacific nations cup which included tongo,fiji and samoa.

I actually think japan and canada could put it up to tonga and definetly couldnt see tonga upsetting france.

That pacific nations cup isn't an accurate gauge of the teams. The island nations won't have had all their top players available. Samoa, for example, chose to put out a B team and leave most of the first 15 in Sydney to prepare for the Aussie game.

As for Tonga v France, if France field a weakened side and aren't mentally in the right place, Tonga will put it up to them. I didn't say they'd win but they'll give them a good rattle.

This game could effectively be for a 1/4 final spot. Last group game and if they both beat Japan and Canada but lose to the All Blacks it'll be winner takes all. Pressure can do funny things to teams and the French aren't known for their mental prowess! (bar when they play NZ!)

wonton

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

That pacific nations cup isn't an accurate gauge of the teams. The island nations won't have had all their top players available. Samoa, for example, chose to put out a B team and leave most of the first 15 in Sydney to prepare for the Aussie game.

actually after checking it there the team they played against japan was pretty much the same team that bet australia, though the lost 15-34 looked like quite a competitive game.

Gracelessly Tom

wonton wrote: »

actually after checking it there the team they played against japan was pretty much the same team that bet australia, though the lost 15-34 looked like quite a competitive game.

Sorry, it was the Fiji and Tonga games that they rested the players. Lost both of those but I'd say they'd take the win over Australia as a decent consolation!

*just looked at the teams myself, 6 of the starters v Aus didn't play in the Japan game. 6 out of 15 is a fairly decent chunk of players.

Taco Corp

http://www.espnscrum.com/2011-rugby-world-cup/rugby/story/147869.html?CMP=OTC-RSS

Interesting story about the refs. Paddy O'Brien read the riot act it seems.

5 areas that the refs need to tighten up on

The breakdown - the tackler must roll away and assist tackler must release the player, while arriving players must come through the gate from the back foot.



Foul play - Referees must start at red and work backwards in the instance of high tackles, grabbing and twisting of the head and tip tackles.


Mauls - the ball-carrier must be available to be tackled.


Offsides - consistent and strict policing of offside players around the breakdown area and players in front of kicker must remain stationary onside.


The scrum - Referees must quicken the sequence of the four calls "crouch, touch, pause engage". O'Brien expressed the need for the loosehead to have his head and shoulders above hips and the tighthead must bind on the body of his opponent rather than the arm.

Gracelessly Tom

Tip tackles??

I presume they don't mean tap tackles, what could possibly be illegal about one of them?

theboss80

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

Tip tackles??

I presume they don't mean tap tackles, what could possibly be illegal about one of them?

Dunno , maybe they mean those sort of half spear tackles where player gets dumped on ground after running into a brick wall defense?

Gracelessly Tom

theboss80 wrote: »

Dunno , maybe they mean those sort of half spear tackles where player gets dumped on ground after running into a brick wall defense?

Ah! You could be right there. Tip as in tipping the player over. Makes sense.

theboss80

Just saw on Twitter there that Healy is as far as Australia now, I assume Darcy is with him aswell ya?

Gracelessly Tom

theboss80 wrote: »

Just saw on Twitter there that Healy is as far as Australia now, I assume Darcy is with him aswell ya?

Is D'Arcy not already out there? Could be wrong but I thought D'Arcy was kept back for two days and Healy was four days?

Inspector Coptoor

they were meant to travel together, yeah

Taco Corp

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

Tip tackles??

I presume they don't mean tap tackles, what could possibly be illegal about one of them?

I think tip tackle is feet above head/shoulders type tackle without bring the tackled player to the ground safely.

theboss80

handsomecake

tip tackle- dump tackle,legs above horizontal and worsed of all a spear tackle.

i actually like seeing these tackles although acknowledge they are dangerous.i had many done on me when i played and i dished out a few too.

since umaga/mealamu o driscoll gate they have gone overboard and penalise legitimate bloody good hits.

james o connor got a yellow for a cracking tackle on zane kirchner in this years super 15.

its not tiddlywinks!!!!!

handsomecake

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM6ZzGj0o6s

here it is. note how the ref says " its not my law but its the law"

Gracelessly Tom

theboss80 wrote: »

Either Leo has a massive head or he got stuck with the kiddie size cap!:pac:

Gracelessly Tom

handsomecake wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM6ZzGj0o6s

here it is. note how the ref says " its not my law but its the law"

In fairness to the ref there, in real time it did look bad. Admittedly with the replays it's not as bad. Still bordering on a spear though, imo.

handsomecake

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

In fairness to the ref there, in real time it did look bad. Admittedly with the replays it's not as bad. Still bordering on a spear though, imo.

id be proud of a tackle like that . completely ragdolled him.on his back not head.

handsomecake

what do you make of this one?

Gracelessly Tom

handsomecake wrote: »

what do you make of this one?

Nowt wrong with that. But I didn't say there was anything wrong with the first one either. Just said it was bordering on a spear.

Problem with the first one from the ref's p.o.v. is that the guys legs are up in the air and flapping about so it made it look worse in real time.

Hagz

handsomecake wrote: »

what do you make of this one?

That's a good tackle. It's different to O'Connor's as he doesn't turn the player in the air. I'm not sure about O'Connor's. In real time it would've looked like he tipped the player. One thing I don't like about the Aussie commentators is that in incidents like that, they tend to be immature about it.

Anyway, when it comes to something like this, I'd prefer the officials to be overly-harsh than other way round.

Gracelessly Tom

Hagz wrote: »

That's a good tackle. It's different to O'Connor's as he doesn't turn the player in the air. I'm not sure about O'Connor's. In real time it would've looked like he tipped the player. One thing I don't like about the Aussie commentators is that in incidents like that, they tend to be immature about it.

Anyway, when it comes to something like this, I'd prefer the officials to be overly-harsh than other way round.

I agree. Like at the end when he says "nothing wrong with that keeping making those tackles son" (or something along those lines). Why, when it could easily lead to penalties and yellow, or red, cards for you? Your team end up suffering then. Moronic.

theboss80

Jesus Christ will next weekend ever hurry on, I know we are down to days now but this week is gonna drag like mad I'd say.

handsomecake

Hagz wrote: »

That's a good tackle. It's different to O'Connor's as he doesn't turn the player in the air. I'm not sure about O'Connor's. In real time it would've looked like he tipped the player. One thing I don't like about the Aussie commentators is that in incidents like that, they tend to be immature about it.

Anyway, when it comes to something like this, I'd prefer the officials to be overly-harsh than other way round.

but isnt that the hypocrisy in the law. in both clips both "victims" landed on their backs.what happens in the interim ie in the air should be arbitrary or irrelevant. its the landing and what part of your anatomy you land on that counts.in the second clip the guy got him up quite high and piledrived him into the deck. in o connors clip he hits him so well that he himself ends up on the deck too.

Gracelessly Tom

handsomecake wrote: »

but isnt that the hypocrisy in the law. in both clips both "victims" landed on their backs.what happens in the interim ie in the air should be arbitrary or irrelevant. its the landing and what part of your anatomy you land on that counts.in the second clip the guy got him up quite high and piledrived him into the deck. in o connors clip he hits him so well that he himself ends up on the deck too.

Yes, I agree, but to be fair to the refs they get one look at an incident in real time, they don't get the benefit of the replays like we do. The O'Connor incident looked bad in real time due to the guys legs flailing about.

*It's not hypocrisy, it's merely different interpretations of the tackle by different refs on different days in different games. The two tackles looked nothing alike.

I think the big difference between the two tackles is that in the first, O'Connor does not have control over the player in the air, and the player gets quite lucky by being able to tuck his head and land on his back. In the second, the player is controlled in the air and brought back to the ground on his back.

This looseness of the first tackle is what makes it so dangerous, and explains the yellow card.

Hagz

handsomecake wrote: »

but isnt that the hypocrisy in the law. in both clips both "victims" landed on their backs.what happens in the interim ie in the air should be arbitrary or irrelevant. its the landing and what part of your anatomy you land on that counts.in the second clip the guy got him up quite high and piledrived him into the deck. in o connors clip he hits him so well that he himself ends up on the deck too.

Yeh but the difference in the two tackles is the lifting of the legs.In the JOC tackle, Kirchner's legs go above the waist of JOC. In the second tackle, the players legs don't go above the tacklers waist. JOC's tackle is more dangerous because if Kircher's legs had gone a small bit higher, the weight could have shifted to his upper body, and he could have gone down on his neck. That said, they're are both pretty much standard dumps, it's just that O'Connor's looks like a tip tackle in real time.

@mark_keohane Mark Keohane

Interesting tweet, and hopefully one that is grounded in truth.

@mark_keohane Mark Keohane wrote:

40 NZ-born players in other RWC squads. Samoa squad includes 17 players born in NZ. So much for NZ raping Island rugger. Other way around

Something to consider the next time we see anything about NZ tearing the game out of the Islands.

JustinDee

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting tweet, and hopefully one that is grounded in truth.

Something to consider the next time we see anything about NZ tearing the game out of the Islands.

Already done to death really. Tonga and Samoa especially full of Kiwis.

thomond2006

France: 15 Cedric Heymans, 14 Vincent Clerc, 13 Aurelien Rougerie, 12 Fabrice Estebanez, 11 Maxime Médard, 10 Francois Trinh-Duc, 9 Dimitri Yachvili, 8 Raphael Lakafia, 7 Imanol Harinordoquy, 6 Thierry Dusautoir (c), 5 Lionel Nallet, 4 Julien Pierre, 3 Nicolas Mas, 2 William Servat, 1 Fabien Barcella.

Replacements: 16 Dimitri Szarzewski, 17 Jean-Baptiste Poux, 18 Julien Bonnaire, 19 Pascal Papé, 20 Morgan Parra, 21 David Skrela, 22 David Marty

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_7152838,00.html

God help Japan. Gonna be a long day. Big talking point will be the fitness of Barcella at loosehead, if fit he's a fantastic scrummager and ball carrier.

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

France XIII vs Japan

Nice of France to give Japan a chance

thomond2006

Podge_irl wrote: »

Nice of France to give Japan a chance

Damn it, and I don't like RL!

theboss80

I wonder will we see a new points difference world record set this year. I was there the last time at the game in 2003 when Australia WALLOPED Namibia 142-0 in Adelaide. Chris Latham got 5 of the Wallabies 21 trys and Mat Rogers converted 16 of them. I'll never forget the buzz in the crowd that day. Still have the ticket from the match.

Podge_irl

theboss80 wrote: »

I wonder will we see a new points difference world record set this year. I was there the last time at the game in 2003 when Australia WALLOPED Namibia 142-0 in Adelaide. Chris Latham got 5 of the Wallabies 21 trys and Mat Rogers converted 16 of them. I'll never forget the buzz in the crowd that day. Still have the ticket from the match.

I think Japan are better then that tbh. They won the Pacific Nations Cup this year with Samoa, Fiji and Tonga playing. Now, while those teams weren't at full strength, it's still reasonably impressive. I would expect a 50 odd point margin (and I've taken France -47 ) but I would also expect Japan to score a try or two and keep the score down for a half or so.

Gracelessly Tom

Podge_irl wrote: »

I think Japan are better then that tbh. They won the Pacific Nations Cup this year with Samoa, Fiji and Tonga playing. Now, while those teams weren't at full strength, it's still reasonably impressive. I would expect a 50 odd point margin (and I've taken France -47 ) but I would also expect Japan to score a try or two and keep the score down for a half or so.

I don't know about that. That is a very strong French team, reckon we could be looking at 70+ margin if France click. Very big IF mind you.

-47 looks a steal on that game.

Hagz

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

I don't know about that. That is a very strong French team, reckon we could be looking at 70+ margin if France click. Very big IF mind you.

-47 looks a steal on that game.

I'd be slightly hesitant. They will lick Japan for sure, but not sure about a 47 point margin. Japan have impressed this year, and should've beat Italy in the warm-up game had they not spilled the ball over the try line twice. I'd be thinking a 40-45 point margin. Could be wrong though, I might be totally over-estimating Japan.

Podge_irl

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

-47 looks a steal on that game.

If that comes through I want some of my whiskey back!

Gracelessly Tom

Podge_irl wrote: »

If that comes through I want some of my whiskey back!

We gotta win the whiskey first!:)

thomond2006

Australia:
15 Kurtley Beale, 14 Adam Ashley-Cooper, 13 Anthony Fainga'a, 12 Pat McCabe, 11 Digby Ioane, 10 Quade Cooper, 9 Will Genia,
8 Radike Samo, 7 David Pocock, 6 Rocky Elsom, 5 James Horwill (c), 4 Dan Vickerman, 3 Ben Alexander, 2 Stephen Moore, 1 Sekope Kepu.

Replacements: 16 Tatafu Polota-Nau, 17 James Slipper, 18 Rob Simmons, 19 Ben McCalman, 20 Scott Higginbotham, 21 Luke Burgess, 22 James O'Connor.

thomond2006

Argentina:
15 Martin Rodriguez, 14 Horacio Agulla, 13 Gonzalo Tiesi, 12 Santiago Fernandez, 11 Gonzalo Camacho, 10 Felipe Contepomi (captain), 9 Nicolas Vergallo, 8 Juan Martin Fernandez Lobbe, 7 Juan Manuel Leguizamon, 6 Julio Farias Cabello, 5 Patricio Albacete, 4 Manuel Carizza, 3 Juan Figallo, 2 Mario Ledesma, 1 Rodrigo Roncero.

Replacements: 16 Agustin Creevy, 17 Martin Scelzo, 18 Mariano Galarza, 19 Alejandro Campos, 20 Alfredo Lalanne, 21 Marcelo Bosch, 22 Juan Jose Imhoff

phog

As a bit of crack a group of us are using the Ire V Aus match in a guessing the score competition.

Question - How do you actually calculate the closest score? Obviously someone that has the actual score will win but how do you decide who's the closest?

Winning team being correct and the win/loss margin being the same or closest.

Take the recent Ire V Eng match as an example (the final score being 9 - 20, the margin is 11)

Guess 1 - Ire 10 Eng 21 (11 points)
Guess 2 - Ire 8 Eng 19 (11 Points)
Guess 3 - Ire 8 Eng 20 (Eng score is exact but margin is 12 points)


Which of these would be the winner?

Gracelessly Tom

phog wrote: »

As a bit of crack a group of us are using the Ire V Aus match in a guessing the score competition.

Question - How do you actually calculate the closest score? Obviously someone that has the actual score will win but how do you decide who's the closest?

Winning team being correct and the win/loss margin being the same or closest.

Take the recent Ire V Eng match as an example (the final score being 9 - 20, the margin is 11)

Guess 1 - Ire 10 Eng 21 (11 points)
Guess 2 - Ire 8 Eng 19 (11 Points)
Guess 3 - Ire 8 Eng 20 (Eng score is exact but margin is 12 points)


Which of these would be the winner?

Personally I would go with adding how many points each guess is away from the teams score and add these together. For example:

Ire 10 - Eng 21 -1 away from Ire and 1 away from Eng so a total of 2
Ire 11 - Eng 21 - 2 away from Ire and 1 away from Eng so a total of 3

First one wins.

In your example I'd say guess 1 and 2 draw. Unless you do a system whereby a partially correct result gets -2 or something to their margin.