Irish Libyan fighter filmed killing a man(supposedy pro-gaddafi) in Libya

lagente

seen at 2mins 58 seconds
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d22_1314916981

Man is named Sam (Hossam),
has Irish mother, Libyan father, strong irish accent as seen earlier in video

Manic Moran

Hit need not mean kill, for what it's worth.

Either way, it's a war. Par for the course.

NTM

Yitzhak Rabin

Manic Moran wrote: »

Hit need not mean kill, for what it's worth.

Either way, it's a war. Par for the course.

NTM

There's a follow up where he checks the body a few minutes later to confirm it was a kill.

But as you said, its war. I think when people hear of people overthrowing Gadaffi they're are jubilant, but then get cognitive dissonance when they realise that means killing people.

AlekSmart

Manic Moran wrote: »

Hit need not mean kill, for what it's worth.

Either way, it's a war. Par for the course.

NTM

From what we can see,in this case it looks as if it did ?

As an aside,what type of weapon was "Sam" using ?

It appears to be a Sniper Rifle of some sort,with telescopic sight.
"Sam" also manages to fire it in single-shot mode and in a crouch,something which sets him a little bit apart from his followers.

Interesting also to see how the Rebels recieved incoming mortar fire in the immediate aftermath,which would tend to indicate some form of observance on the Gadaffi forces part ?

However,is "Sam" brave or foolhardy to go back to his "Kill" in full view and poke him with the barrel...surely overexposing himself to return fire ?

Yitzhak Rabin

AlekSmart wrote: »

From what we can see,in this case it looks as if it did ?

As an aside,what type of weapon was "Sam" using ?

It appears to be a Sniper Rifle of some sort,with telescopic sight.
"Sam" also manages to fire it in single-shot mode and in a crouch,something which sets him a little bit apart from his followers.

Interesting also to see how the Rebels recieved incoming mortar fire in the immediate aftermath,which would tend to indicate some form of observance on the Gadaffi forces part ?

However,is "Sam" brave or foolhardy to go back to his "Kill" in full view and poke him with the barrel...surely overexposing himself to return fire ?

Looked like a dragonov sniper rifle to me;



He was extremely reckless and foolhardy in that video. He is supposed to be one of the commanders. If thats what the standard of rebel soldier is, I'm shocked they managed to take Tripoli at all. Maybe Gadaffi's forces are equally as shambolic, or just lacked the will to fight.

gimme5minutes

Wow, man kills another man in war. Never expected that.

Nodin

AlekSmart wrote: »

From what ............himself to return fire ?

Why are you putting his name in quotes?

HellsAngel

lagente wrote: »

seen at 2mins 58 seconds
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d22_1314916981

Man is named Sam, has Irish mother, Libyan father, strong irish accent as seen earlier in video

If he was in Ireland and killed a loyalist or a Brit he'd be denounced as a 'terrorist'.

Einhard

Or a murderer...and rightly so on both counts.

Nodin

HellsAngel wrote: »

If he was in Ireland and killed a loyalist or a Brit he'd be denounced as a 'terrorist'.

By some.

HellsAngel

Einhard wrote: »

Or a murderer...and rightly so on both counts.

And if he's in the Brit army going to places to try and kill people he has no business in, what does that make him ??

partyatmygaff

Nodin wrote: »

Why are you putting his name in quotes?

His actual name is Hossam. You can even hear the other rebels saying "Hurry, hurry up Hossam" (In Arabic of course but the name is still clearly distinguishable) when he's crossing the road at 2:54.

Nodin

partyatmygaff wrote: »

His actual name is Hossam. You can even hear the other rebels saying "Hurry, hurry up Hossam" (In Arabic of course but the name is still clearly distinguishable) when he's crossing the road at 2:54.

I know. However an abbreviation or nickname usually doesn't deserve double quotation marks, hence the question.

Einhard

HellsAngel wrote: »

And if he's in the Brit army going to places to try and kill people he has no business in, what does that make him ??

Shouldn't have taken the bait. Not gonna continue this as it'll just derail the thread. Not every single incident needs to be related back to the North.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fair play to him

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/TopStories/20110804/libya-tripoli-brigade-rebel-fighters-110804/

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Irish-Libyan-Mahdi-al-Harati-leads-the-overthrow-of-Colonel-Gadafy-128581813.html

Jonny7

I thought it was a very good piece

brave camera crew as well I might add

A Dub in Glasgo

Certainly was

spank_inferno

Was he the same Irish/Libyan being interviewd on the 'last word' with Matt Cooper during the week?

lagente

spank_inferno wrote: »

Was he the same Irish/Libyan being interviewd on the 'last word' with Matt Cooper during the week?

Yes, but no video of the killing at that point, as far as i can tell.

I would like to know, . . . . . . . .
now that the rebels are in power, if Sam thinks Sharia-Law and ALL that it entails, WHICH WILL BE EMPLACED, is the best WAY FORWARD for the area.
He must have strong feelings about the direction, or lack of change in direction of Libyan society.

HellsAngel

Einhard wrote: »

Shouldn't have taken the bait. Not gonna continue this as it'll just derail the thread. Not every single incident needs to be related back to the North.

Fair enough point.

AlekSmart

HellsAngel wrote: »

And if he's in the Brit army going to places to try and kill people he has no business in, what does that make him ??

It's a funny ol world alright...

We now know that MI6 have been playing a significant role in liasing between Her Majesty's Government and the Libyan Rebel Factions...MI6 may well have been allocated overall responsibility for NATO/Rebel behind-the-scenes contacts.

The SAS however have,it appears,been playing a role of sorts too...

http://www.periscopepost.com/2011/03/sas-in-libya-a-fiasco/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/libya/8721291/Libya-SAS-leads-hunt-for-Gaddafi.html

Meanwhile SAS soldiers who had been sent to Libya several weeks ago to coordinate air strikes on key military targets have been ordered to stay on and help the rebels on the ground who are hunting him down.

http://www.yanabi.com/index.php?/topic/422723-sas-in-libya/

So it could well be that in true walshb style,the British are far deeper into the Libyan game than many might like to admit.

My enemy's enemy is my friend etc etc....

LondonIrish90

Nodin wrote: »

By some.

Umm, in the eyes of the law of both Ireland and the United Kingdom. :rolleyes:

LondonIrish90

AlekSmart wrote: »

It's a funny ol world alright...

We now know that MI6 have been playing a significant role in liasing between Her Majesty's Government and the Libyan Rebel Factions

No shock there then, foreign intelligence service doing their job...

It would be hugely surprising if there was any major intelligence service who hadn't had significant contact with the Libyan rebels imo, after all it seems that just about everyone worldwide has a vested interest in Libya to some extent

AlekSmart

Nodin wrote: »

By some.

By a significant amount...?

AlekSmart

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

No shock there then, foreign intelligence service doing their job...

Got it in one L.I.90.....notable in this particular revolt is the lack of a catchily named Secret Police Force....No SAVAK,SECURITATE,MUKHABARAT etc.

It seems Gadaffi relied more on a localized tribal based system of intelligence in preference to an all-pervasive central agency.

newmug

Is this the lad from Firhouse? He had a fairly recognisable Dub accent on the radio, but he sounds just like a native Lybian in that clip!

hmmm

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

No shock there then, foreign intelligence service doing their job...

British, French, Qatar and Jordan are well known to have special forces on the ground.

There are also some contractors who have been paid by the West to get involved, including some who are helping to defuse weapons, and a widely publicised operation to buy up the SAMs that have found their way into rebel hands.

LordSutch

HellsAngel wrote: »

If he was in Ireland and killed a loyalist or a Brit he'd be denounced as a 'terrorist'.

I thought a Loyalist was a Brit.

Nodin

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Umm, in the eyes of the law of both Ireland and the United Kingdom. :rolleyes:

.....as those rebels were in Libya.

LordSutch

I wonder will Adams send a message of condolence to the Libyan Embassy in Dublin, should the good colonel expire in the heat of battle?

Alopex

LordSutch wrote: »

I thought a Loyalist was a Brit.

Brit is a nickname for British Army members among republicans

Sunnyisland

LordSutch wrote: »

I wonder will Adams send a message of condolence to the Libyan Embassy in Dublin, should the good colonel expire in the heat of battle?

I wonder will the Brits & USA join him

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14774533

lagente

Video is also here:
www.france24.com/en/20110901-reporters-libya-tripoli-brigade-taking-capital-rebels-green-square-martyrs-fighters-rebellion-gaddafi

A Dub in Glasgo

realies wrote: »

I wonder will the Brits & USA join him

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14774533

I wonder will the Government join him as well

http://www.thejournal.ie/irish-government-sought-bank-bailout-from-libya-2011-02/

paul71

HellsAngel wrote: »

If he was in Ireland and killed a loyalist or a Brit he'd be denounced as a 'terrorist'.

Correctly so.

lagente

Manic Moran wrote: »

NTM

Why do you say this? He killed a man. Not everyone on battlefields who holds a gun is going to use it to kill. Things are crazy over there, all sorts of people forced to put weapons in their hands

Nodin

lagente wrote: »

Irish Libyan fighter filmed killing a man

lagente wrote: »

Yes, but no video of the killing at that point, as far as i can tell.

lagente wrote: »

Why do you say this? He killed a man. Not everyone on battlefields who holds a gun is going to use it to kill. Things are crazy over there, all sorts of people forced to put weapons in their hands

Why do you keep going on about the fact he killed a guy, might I ask? It strikes me as a bit "odd"

lagente

: D
What can I say, I like people

Nodin

lagente wrote: »

: D
What can I say, I like people

Sorry, I don't follow....

laoch na mona

AlekSmart wrote: »

By a significant amount...?

you would be surprised how many saw through the anti provo propaganda (rarly here about loyalists on reeling in the years)

newmug

lagente wrote: »

: D
What can I say, I like people

Even people who shoot at you?

CiaranC

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Umm, in the eyes of the law of both Ireland and the United Kingdom. :rolleyes:

Im pretty sure its against the law in Libya to kill a member of the official armed forces

lagente

newmug wrote: »

Even people who shoot at you?

do we know if the dead guy shot directly at anyone?

KeithAFC

RIP to the soldier killed.

Batsy

gimme5minutes wrote: »

Wow, man kills another man in war. Never expected that.

Many Irish people, bizarrely, seem surprised when it happens.

Manic Moran

lagente wrote: »

Manic Moran wrote: »

NTM

Why do you say this? He killed a man. Not everyone on battlefields who holds a gun is going to use it to kill. Things are crazy over there, all sorts of people forced to put weapons in their hands

True, not everyone will. But it's the default position that in your typical war, people with weapons are going to try to kill people on the other side. One of those defining characteristics of a war, really. Without it, you just have a loud exchange of insults.

NTM

A Dub in Glasgo

lagente wrote: »

do we know if the dead guy shot directly at anyone?

Maybe those bullets whizzing about came from the dead guy. It is a strange position you are trying to paint. A civil war/revolution/rebellion/insurgency/insurrection/terrorist action [delete as appropriate] is taking place in Libya, people usually get killed when this happens.

Nodin

lagente wrote: »

do we know (........)at anyone?

You didn't fully explain....are you constantly referring to what happened in this incident because you (a) approve (b) dissapprove or (c) other. "please give reasons with your answers" etc.

Nodin

Manic Moran wrote: »

True, not everyone will. But it's the default position that in your typical war, people with weapons are going to try to kill people on the other side. One of those defining characteristics of a war, really. Without it, you just have a loud exchange of insults.

NTM

And mooning. Lots of mooning.

lagente

Nodin wrote: »

You didn't fully explain....are you constantly referring to what happened in this incident because you (a) approve (b) dissapprove or (c) other. "please give reasons with your answers" etc.

I dissapprove of the killing, because
-what is going on with this report? So much footage may be left out.
-was the guy he killed willing to kill them? we Don't know. all sorts have been handed weapons in this war.

wasted too much of my weekend with this bullsh1t. :mad:

Jaafa

lagente wrote: »

I dissapprove of the killing, because
-what is going on with this report? So much footage may be left out.
-was the guy he killed willing to kill them? we Don't know. all sorts have been handed weapons in this war.

wasted too much of my weekend with this bullsh1t. :mad:

look the guy had a gun in his hand. Sam's men we're pinned down from fire coming from that direction. What do you want him to do? Text the lad and ask is he gona shoot? Or just run away? The man made his choice by supporting Gaddafi, lots of soldiers defected. Why didn't he?