Rank hypocrisy re Donegal

gearoidc

The game's over, every pundit in town is tryin to forget he ever saw the horror of Sunday's match and Donegal have taken a kicking in most discussions I've heard and seen about it.

I wonder how many of those who were so quick to condemn Donegal, can remember back to Italia 90?
Every match that we played in - bar none -was an utterly dire affair. The England match was the pits, Egypt was the worst thing I've ever seen, the Holland match was a joke, Romania destroyed us and we did feck-all against Italy.
We scored 2 goals from play in 5 matches and- to quote Joe Brolly last Sunday- we stank the place out.

Despite that, the team was greeted by a million on the streets and are still remembered fondly by nearly every Paddy who watched it and I'll wager that a huge amount of the indignant mob this week were jumping off their bar-stools 20 years ago.

The hysterical reaction to what Donegal "did" on Sunday was outrageous and an insult to McGuinness and his players.

deisedude

gearoidc wrote: »

The game's over, every pundit in town is tryin to forget he ever saw the horror of Sunday's match and Donegal have taken a kicking in most discussions I've heard and seen about it.

I wonder how many of those who were so quick to condemn Donegal, can remember back to Italia 90?
Every match that we played in - bar none -was an utterly dire affair. The England match was the pits, Egypt was the worst thing I've ever seen, the Holland match was a joke, Romania destroyed us and we did feck-all against Italy.
We scored 2 goals from play in 5 matches and- to quote Joe Brolly last Sunday- we stank the place out.

Despite that, the team was greeted by a million on the streets and are still remembered fondly by nearly every Paddy who watched it and I'll wager that a huge amount of the indignant mob this week were jumping off their bar-stools 20 years ago.

The hysterical reaction to what Donegal "did" on Sunday was outrageous and an insult to McGuinness and his players.

The fact you have to go back over 20 years and compare it to a different sport shows you are clutching at straws. That Donegal style of play is an abomination

gearoidc

deisedude wrote: »

The fact you have to go back over 20 years and compare it to a different sport shows you are clutching at straws. That Donegal style of play is an abomination

So was our style of soccer back then but people didn't give a sh1te.
You weren't singin and hoppin in 1990?

Het-Field

IIRC the performances of the Republic of Ireland during the 1990 World Cup was one of the reasons behind FIFA increasing the number of points from two to three.

How will the GAA deal with Donegal and their appalling strategy?

corny

gearoidc wrote: »

The game's over, every pundit in town is tryin to forget he ever saw the horror of Sunday's match and Donegal have taken a kicking in most discussions I've heard and seen about it.

I wonder how many of those who were so quick to condemn Donegal, can remember back to Italia 90?
Every match that we played in - bar none -was an utterly dire affair. The England match was the pits, Egypt was the worst thing I've ever seen, the Holland match was a joke, Romania destroyed us and we did feck-all against Italy.
We scored 2 goals from play in 5 matches and- to quote Joe Brolly last Sunday- we stank the place out.

Despite that, the team was greeted by a million on the streets and are still remembered fondly by nearly every Paddy who watched it and I'll wager that a huge amount of the indignant mob this week were jumping off their bar-stools 20 years ago.

The hysterical reaction to what Donegal "did" on Sunday was outrageous and an insult to McGuinness and his players.

And if Donegal had beaten Dublin and then Kerry there would've been thousands to greet them in Donegal. Thats the nature of sporting success i suppose. When you are an impartial your perspective changes a bit though and you really can't blame anyone for not liking what they saw on Sunday. As long as none of its personal they can criticise all they like.

munchkin_utd

Het-Field wrote: »

IIRC the performances of the Republic of Ireland during the 1990 World Cup was one of the reasons behind FIFA increasing the number of points from two to three.

and the back pass rule too.

i cant think of any way to legislate for Donegal-isation of the game though.

Maybe stretching it, no more than 5 hand passes in a row?
But thatd only make them kick a 2 metre foot pass to get 5 more passes.

Itd be a pity to have to complicate the rules just because one team wants to bore the country to tears as if they were playing italian possesion based soccer.

deisedude

gearoidc wrote: »

So was our style of soccer back then but people didn't give a sh1te.
You weren't singin and hoppin in 1990?

Seeing as I was 1 at the time I can safely say I wasnt singing or hopping:D

aidan24326

deisedude wrote: »

The fact you have to go back over 20 years and compare it to a different sport shows you are clutching at straws. That Donegal style of play is an abomination

Am abomination it may be, but gearoidc is right in saying thst there's a bit of hypocrisy around this. Everybody is slagging off Donegal, and with some justification, but the fact is that Dublin weren't a whole lot better.

Any team that doesn't score from play until almost the 60th minute can't really claim the moral high ground.

corny

aidan24326 wrote: »

Am abomination it may be, but gearoidc is right in saying thst there's a bit of hypocrisy around this. Everybody is slagging off Donegal, and with some justification, but the fact is that Dublin weren't a whole lot better.

Any team that doesn't score from play until almost the 60th minute can't really claim the moral high ground.

Dublin didn't dictate the course of that game though, Donegal did when they camped 14 men in their own half with barely seconds on the clock. Dublin weren't allowed to be a lot better.

Its the effectiveness of McGuiness' system thats causing the uproar. It really works!

Jimmy Magee

It was funny when I heard some lad from Dublin on Monday's Off the Ball on Newstalk saying Connolly should be allowed play in final because he didn't lift his hand.

Whatever you say about Donegal's tactics, it's up to Dublin and everyone else to find a way around them.

The referee didn't help much either. Lacey was targeted from the throw-in and Brogan was given handy frees anytime he managed to get directly in front of the goal. It was as if the referee thought that merited some sort of award!

At the match I didn't find the game half as bad as people seem to be making out. It was a good contest. I would take anything Spillane says with a pinch of salt. If Kerry parked a double-decker in front of their goal and won he would have no qualms.

He had the same auld balderdash out of him when Tyrone beat Kerry using a similar defensive system.

maestroamado

I am not in favour of the style of football but at the end of the day as long as they play without breaking any rules it is a problem for the administrators to make the necessary changes.
It might be an idea to allow Dublin play the 5 subs for the whole match giving them 20 so they may have some chance of winning the final against Kerry.

thanks

DoctaDee

Whatever about the relative merits of Donegal's system, it's not easy on the eye - Donegal fans will rightly support their team irrespective of the so-called entertainment value (much like the Jack Charlton era).

If the DCB continue with their Spring Series initiative in Croker for the NFL 2012 campaign, I'd guarantee Donegal v Dublin will be in Ballybofey

hisholinessnb

aidan24326 wrote: »

Any team that doesn't score from play until almost the 60th minute can't really claim the moral high ground.

This whole malarky of not scoring from play is total and utter rubbish. A point is a point, and counts for the same be it from a free or from play.

So any time Dublin got within range to score from play they were fouled, and instead took the point via the free. Hardly a reflection on Dublin :rolleyes:

eigrod

munchkin_utd wrote: »

and the back pass rule too.

i cant think of any way to legislate for Donegal-isation of the game though.

Bringing in a rule that you must have at least 4 players in each half was one way suggested earlier in the week, albeit you'd need a sideline official to monitor it and bring any breaches to the referee's attention.

As regards the OP, I'm not sure what the point comparing to World Cup 1990 is. Everyone outside Donegal fully understands that Donegal supporters welcome the progress their team made this year and the success the system brought to them (Div 2 champions, Ulster champions & AI semi final). You've every right to celebrate that, in the same way Ireland fans had every right to celebrate the progress that was made in reaching a World Cup QF in 1990, irrespective of the style of play.

However, you have to take on the chin the severe criticism that will come from outside when you play a system like that. It's simply awful to watch unless you have a vested interest.

evo20

The biggest problem with the way Donegal play is the negative affect it will have on GAA. With the competition to get young people playing sport from rugby, soccer, who would want to be on a 14 man defence team, that offers very little enjoyment from a players perspective.

gearoidc

eigrod wrote: »

Bringing in a rule that you must have at least 4 players in each half was one way suggested earlier in the week, albeit you'd need a sideline official to monitor it and bring any breaches to the referee's attention.

As regards the OP, I'm not sure what the point comparing to World Cup 1990 is. Everyone outside Donegal fully understands that Donegal supporters welcome the progress their team made this year and the success the system brought to them (Div 2 champions, Ulster champions & AI semi final). You've every right to celebrate that, in the same way Ireland fans had every right to celebrate the progress that was made in reaching a World Cup QF in 1990, irrespective of the style of play.

However, you have to take on the chin the severe criticism that will come from outside when you play a system like that. It's simply awful to watch unless you have a vested interest.

I don't agree. The level of denigration in the media was disgusting and Joe Brolly's remark was an absolute disgrace. The level of effort, concentration and discipline required to do what Donegal did last Sunday is something that we'll rarely if ever see again. It was nothing short of an incredible achievement to contain a team like Dublin in the way they did.
They are not - no more that in any sport - in the business of entertaining and should not be having to take such a level of criticism just cos the mob got fed-up watching it.

robbiezero

gearoidc wrote: »

I don't agree. The level of denigration in the media was disgusting and Joe Brolly's remark was an absolute disgrace. The level of effort, concentration and discipline required to do what Donegal did last Sunday is something that we'll rarely if ever see again. It was nothing short of an incredible achievement to contain a team like Dublin in the way they did.
They are not - no more that in any sport - in the business of entertaining and should not be having to take such a level of criticism just cos the mob got fed-up watching it.

A team like Dublin? Dublin are no great shakes. They are a decent well-organized side with the Brogans being their only stand out footballers, I dont think they are anywhere near the standard of Tyrone, Armagh, Kerry from the last decade. A team like Donegal should have more ambition than merely containing a side like Dublin, if some Division 4 side had to do it, then fair enough, but Donegal have plenty good footballers.
When Dublin took the lead in the game, Donegals attempt to come back against 14 men was one of the most pathetic I have ever seen from a team. Did they even get a shot in on goal - 2 points down in an All Ireland semi final and they still playing with a 13 man defence and handpassing laterally. Didnt know what to do outside their system.

elguapo

Here's what Donegal's style of play achieved on Sunday; they had 58% of the possession, and managed 6 points.

That's one point for every 7 minutes of possession, approximately. Abysmal.

gearoidc

To get back to the original point of the thread...
GAA teams don't get awarded points for artistic merit. Neither did Rep of Ireland in 1990.People seem to forget that your average fullback/ half back does little more than preventing their opponents playing and are quite happy to do that most of their GAA lives.

The "Think about the game!!" "Think about the children!! " hysterics of so many fans and commentators is bloody laughable. Sport is all about WINNING for God's sake and adopting a high moral ground on the issue is both ridiculous and hugely hypocritical when you consider how the nation and the media carried on in 1990.

blackbelt

gearoidc wrote: »

The game's over, every pundit in town is tryin to forget he ever saw the horror of Sunday's match and Donegal have taken a kicking in most discussions I've heard and seen about it.

I wonder how many of those who were so quick to condemn Donegal, can remember back to Italia 90?
Every match that we played in - bar none -was an utterly dire affair. The England match was the pits, Egypt was the worst thing I've ever seen, the Holland match was a joke, Romania destroyed us and we did feck-all against Italy.
We scored 2 goals from play in 5 matches and- to quote Joe Brolly last Sunday- we stank the place out.

Despite that, the team was greeted by a million on the streets and are still remembered fondly by nearly every Paddy who watched it and I'll wager that a huge amount of the indignant mob this week were jumping off their bar-stools 20 years ago.

The hysterical reaction to what Donegal "did" on Sunday was outrageous and an insult to McGuinness and his players.

It was horrible to look at and after seeing the way Donegal played first hand, I find myself agreeing with Spillane and co. Teams like Dublin and Tyrone have a strong defensive setup but they also have a very strong attacking edge to them,hit fair and don't play act. I saw none of the latter from Donegal on Sunday.

All we had was hand passing and 14 men parked up to their own 45 meter line.Rather than driving forward in a counter attack they were quite happy to pass it back like a very bad soccer match.No buildup, no sense of direction and McFadden was never going to do anything on his own in the full forward line.

I hope this is not the way Gaelic Football will be but I am upbeat that it won't.Donegal didn't come up to play Dublin at football.They came to try and bully Dublin around the pitch and stop Dublin play and try and hold onto a slender lead.The amount of times a Donegal player would wrestle a ball from a Dublin player after the ref blowed his whistle for a free,the amount of times Donegal players did not get back the requisite space for frees,the amount of niggling,play acting and squaring up to Dublin players was disgusting.

As for the Donegal team, I'm usually very quick to commiserate a team who have lost but I can't bring myself to doing so this time.Fair enough they won Division 2 and Ulster but is that the best Ulster can provide?It clearly shows that Ulster is gone down the pecking order and I would now rank it as the 3rd best province in Ireland after Munster and Leinster.

DoctaDee

gearoidc wrote: »

...........People seem to forget that your average fullback/ half back does little more than preventing their opponents playing and are quite happy to do that most of their GAA lives...
.

Eh .. no .... Have a look at Moynihan, O'Se, Paul Curran ........ it goes on and on ... in actual fact it's fair to say that some of the finest footballers we've seen were backs/ half backs ... I know from my own club experience that our best footballers were in the half back line .... *coughs* .. right wing back :rolleyes:

Mountainlad

gearoidc wrote: »

I don't agree. The level of denigration in the media was disgusting and Joe Brolly's remark was an absolute disgrace. The level of effort, concentration and discipline required to do what Donegal did last Sunday is something that we'll rarely if ever see again. It was nothing short of an incredible achievement to contain a team like Dublin in the way they did.
They are not - no more that in any sport - in the business of entertaining and should not be having to take such a level of criticism just cos the mob got fed-up watching it.

This is hyperbole in the opposite direction. I'm not denying they put in a huge effort, an incredible achievemnet that we'll rarely if ever see again? They sacrificied there own scores to stop Dublin, and it didn't work, Dublin with 14 men won out in the end. It was not an incredible achievement.

If winning is all that matters then why would Donegal be upset, why should they care about what people are saying. They've won a national title, their provincial title for the first time in nearly a decade and a half, and also nearly made an all-ireland final. Nobody is denying the success of the tactics they adopted. However, it was just awful to watch for the neutral.

There is a huge interest in the game of Football for several reasons I suppose, but it being fairly entertaining is a big reason. However, the way Donegal play is about as fun as watching a game of boules, and if everyone started playing that way, attendances would probably follow a similar trend to that of boules.

So sport isn't really all about winning. Who really cares who the World Curling Champions are? If nobody wants to attend these sports then they will lose merit, and it being horrible to watch is generally why people don't go to these sports.

StephenHendry

there was definitely an over reaction to donegals tactics but to be fair to jim mcguinness that was their tactic all year and it has proved very
effective for them winnning division 2, ulster title etc. but with it being a semi final it came under greater scrutiny. the game was never going to be a great spectacle but the players, pundits etc. knew this. brolly, spillane acted as if donegals tactics came out of the blue. honestly if my own county , tipp adopted these tactics and got to the semis of the AI i wouldn't complain too much

Sand Wedge

corny wrote: »

Dublin didn't dictate the course of that game though, Donegal did when they camped 14 men in their own half with barely seconds on the clock. Dublin weren't allowed to be a lot better.

Its the effectiveness of McGuiness' system thats causing the uproar. It really works!

I think Dublin supporters should be worried that Dublin kept 6 players back in defence to mark Donegals one forward. Why didn't Dublin push more players on. Dublin had not got a clue how to break Donegal down. Donegal new that if they marked Connolly and the Brogans and let everyone else shoot Dublin were not going to score. Thats the problem when you pick half backs to play half forward!

Dublins approach was cautious at best and had no creativity. The introduction of McMenamin and the ref giving a few easy frees in last 20 mins to Dublin changed the game.

Mountainlad

gearoidc wrote: »

To get back to the original point of the thread...
GAA teams don't get awarded points for artistic merit. Neither did Rep of Ireland in 1990.People seem to forget that your average fullback/ half back does little more than preventing their opponents playing and are quite happy to do that most of their GAA lives.

The "Think about the game!!" "Think about the children!! " hysterics of so many fans and commentators is bloody laughable. Sport is all about WINNING for God's sake and adopting a high moral ground on the issue is both ridiculous and hugely hypocritical when you consider how the nation and the media carried on in 1990.

Tyrone had players in their full back line scoring when they were successful with a defensive system. Marc O Se if playing full back for Kerry at the moment. In hurling, Diarmuid O'Sullivan played full back for Cork, ever see his points against Limerick? But in general I agree, but then a full back is one of 15 players. A centre forward, two wing forwards and a corner forward plying inside your own half shouldn't happen.

robbiezero

Mountainlad wrote: »

Tyrone had players in their full back line scoring when they were successful with a defensive system. Marc O Se if playing full back for Kerry at the moment. In hurling, Diarmuid O'Sullivan played full back for Cork, ever see his points against Limerick? But in general I agree, but then a full back is one of 15 players. A centre forward, two wing forwards and a corner forward plying inside your own half shouldn't happen.

Agreed. One of the most fascinating parts of the Kerry Mayo game was the duel between Marc O Se and Andy Moran. Spellbinding stuff, watching O Se trying to get out in front of him, and then as the ball was kicked in over his head to Moran, stay on his feet as Moran dumming him left and right. Brilliant stuff

Snickers Man

gearoidc wrote: »

I wonder how many of those who were so quick to condemn Donegal, can remember back to Italia 90?
Every match that we played in - bar none -was an utterly dire affair. .....
Despite that, the team was greeted by a million on the streets and are still remembered fondly by nearly every Paddy who watched it ...

Yeah, but are they remembered fondly by every or indeed any other football fan who isn't a "paddy"?

That's the point you're making. Some kids are so ugly only their mothers could love them and some teams are so ugly that only their natural supporters, who are duty bound to follow them wherever, could possibly hold them in any affection.

Your gripe can only be with Donegal football fans who turned their faces away in disgust from the fare on view at Croker but who still turned up in Burtonport to welcome home world cup hero Packie Bonner in 1990.

The rest of the country has no more reason to "like" this Donegal football team than soccer fans in Brazil, say, had to develop a warm glow about the exploits of Ireland in Italia 90.

How many copies of Ireland's Italia 90 highlights video were sold in Rio de Janeiro, do you think? Probably about as many as there are people south or east of Ballyshannon who are prepared to talk warmly of this Donegal football team.

Het-Field

Sand Wedge wrote: »

I think Dublin supporters should be worried that Dublin kept 6 players back in defence to mark Donegals one forward. Why didn't Dublin push more players on. Dublin had not got a clue how to break Donegal down. Donegal new that if they marked Connolly and the Brogans and let everyone else shoot Dublin were not going to score. Thats the problem when you pick half backs to play half forward!

Dublins approach was cautious at best and had no creativity. The introduction of McMenamin and the ref giving a few easy frees in last 20 mins to Dublin changed the game.

Dublin have gone through creative patches throughout the season. It has been erratic, but the first 50 mins against Kildare, and the entirety of the Tyrone game displayed how Dublin can attack, and show a bullish instinct in front of goal.

Using the Wexford and Donegal games as probative of Dublin's weaknesses is pointless as the Kildare and Tyrone games provide solid counter-arguments.

aidan24326

corny wrote: »

Its the effectiveness of McGuiness' system thats causing the uproar. It really works!

It doesn't though, that's the thing. Donegal were never going to win anything playing like that. They scored 6 points, a pathetic total. All they succeeded in doing was stifling Dublin, but they had no plan of attack themselves. It's a one-dimensional system.

hisholinessnb wrote: »

This whole malarky of not scoring from play is total and utter rubbish. A point is a point, and counts for the same be it from a free or from play.

So any time Dublin got within range to score from play they were fouled, and instead took the point via the free. Hardly a reflection on Dublin :rolleyes:

Fine, a point is a point. But whether from play or frees Dublin only managed 8 of them. Even against a defensive sysytem that's very poor. And yes it is bad when a team goes 60 minutes without scoring from open play. Play like that against Kerry and the 'dream' final will quickly turn into a nightmare. I do expect Dublin to be better the next day, but they'll certainly need to be.

harpsman

Im from donegal,and im afraid to say i find it hard to disagree with any of the criticism either on here or from the pundits.There is more to sport than simply winning.Otherwise just take up a sport that nobody else plays(like hurling:D) and hey presto you ll be winnin all the time.

I admire the improvement in the teams strength,fitness and discipline that mcguinness has brought about,but i think some of his achievements have been exaggerated by himself and others.We had a huge amount of luck this season-disallowed goals,Bradley brother injury,penalty decisions,decisions and tyrones wastefulness in that game and the fact that Ulster is at its weakest for over a decade.

Also its not as if Donegal were total no hopers before-in the last ten years we ve been in an all ireland semi,a few quarters 3 ulster finals and won a national league-div 1 too.
Fair enough they were bad last year but that doesnt mean they dont have lots of good footballers.
IMHO we could still play a very defensive system,keep it tight at the back and still play with 3 forwards-you d still have 11 defenders ffs.

rossie1977

how dare donegal defend as if their lives depended on it, they should have gone out there and let connolly and the brogans waltz through them like tyrone did, the cheek of them

Het-Field

rossie1977 wrote: »

how dare donegal defend as if their lives depended on it, they should have gone out there and let connolly and the brogans waltz through them like tyrone did, the cheek of them

Dont be so facetious.

listermint

rossie1977 wrote: »

how dare donegal defend as if their lives depended on it, they should have gone out there and let connolly and the brogans waltz through them like tyrone did, the cheek of them

How dare they not try to win it, Its as if the tried to lose.

You dont win games by sticking to the same strategy when your chasing a lead with a man advantage.....

rossie1977

listermint wrote: »

How dare they not try to win it, Its as if the tried to lose.

You dont win games by sticking to the same strategy when your chasing a lead with a man advantage.....

who said they didn't try to win it, they led for a majority of the game, they scored more points from play, i have been at lots of games where the team that has a man sent off gains momentum which is what happened on sunday

if dublin adopt similiar tactics against kerry and win by a point not one dublin fan on here will complain, mark my words

Het-Field

rossie1977 wrote: »

who said they didn't try to win it, they led for a majority of the game, they scored more points from play, i have been at lots of games where the team that has a man sent off gains momentum which is what happened on sunday

if dublin adopt similiar tactics against kerry and win by a point not one dublin fan on here will complain, mark my words

The fact is, they wont play like that. No team worth its salt will play like that.

Further, leading for the majority of the game is irrelevant. When Dublin turned the screw, Donegal couldnt compete.

corny

aidan24326 wrote: »

It doesn't though, that's the thing. Donegal were never going to win anything playing like that. They scored 6 points, a pathetic total. All they succeeded in doing was stifling Dublin, but they had no plan of attack themselves. It's a one-dimensional system.

If McFadden had taken his goal like he should the scores would have been level. Its naive to suggest a game that finished with 2 scores in it couldn't swing the other way with a bit of luck.

Its a highly effective one dimensional system which virtually guarantees Donegal will be in with 10 to go. Just ask Tyrone and Kildare supporters.

Dangerous Man

rossie1977 wrote: »

who said they didn't try to win it, they led for a majority of the game, they scored more points from play, i have been at lots of games where the team that has a man sent off gains momentum which is what happened on sunday

if dublin adopt similiar tactics against kerry and win by a point not one dublin fan on here will complain, mark my words

Two things:

1: Dublin won't play like Donegal.

2: It's not only people from Dublin complaining about Donegal's style. It's everybody. Even people from Donegal.

rossie1977

Het-Field wrote: »

The fact is, they wont play like that. No team worth its salt will play like that.

Dangerous Man wrote: »

Two things:

1: Dublin won't play like Donegal.

2: It's not only people from Dublin complaining about Donegal's style. It's everybody. Even people from Donegal.

dublin play a defensive style of football so there are not a million miles away from adopting donegals ultra defense unit play, dublins tactics for most of that game was to lob the ball in high to brogan and niall mcgee won it nearly every time, when donegal had the ball in dublins half there were 10 and sometimes 12 dublin players back behind the ball

i haven't seen anyone from donegal complaining, if they are then they need to cop themselves on, donegal hadn't won ulster in 20 years before this year, the last time they came to croke park they were beat by 14 points and conceded 1-27, fast forward 2 years later and they came within a whisker of getting to an all-ireland final

muscail

Dangerous Man wrote: »

Two things:

1: Dublin won't play like Donegal.

2: It's not only people from Dublin complaining about Donegal's style. It's everybody. Even people from Donegal.

Im afraid if Dublin want to beat Kerry, there have to play like Donegal whick we can Know they can do too, if not i can see a hammering coming.
Think there more skill in a good short passing game, than the long ball we going to see from Kerry.

Brendan97

Dangerous Man wrote: »

Two things:

1: Dublin won't play like Donegal.

2: It's not only people from Dublin complaining about Donegal's style. It's everybody. Even people from Donegal.

nearly everyone i know likes the way they play
they work hard to gain posession and work up the field with quick hand passing which i love

rossie1977

muscail wrote: »

Im afraid if Dublin want to beat Kerry, there have to play like Donegal whick we can Know they can do too, if not i can see a hammering coming.
Think there more skill in a good short passing game, than the long ball we going to see from Kerry.

if dublin go out and try to beat kerry playing football they will be murdered and it will be 2009 all over again, i was at that game, it was over after 10 mins

TokenWhite

I don't think anybody could deny that Donegal have been playing what would be called 'ugly' football the past year but the question is not whether their style of football is attractive or unattractive, but rather, whether or not it is acceptable to play that style of football, and the simple answer is that yes, it is. Football is a results driven business and Donegal, or anybody else for that matter are under no obligations to entertain either their own supporters, oppostion supporters or neutrals, there only obligation is to win, both for themselves and the supporters that have followed them.

Being a Donegal man myself I would obviously prefer to win pretty but if it's a choice between either or then it's going to be an obvious answer. If the GAA community feels that such ultra defensive tactics are to be eradicated from the game then it can be done either on the pitch, by the management staff, simply by finding a counter to the system, or in the boardrooms/commitees of the GAA by incentivising attacking play, such as allowing extra points for goals, a bonus points in the league for scoring a minimum number of points etc etc. Change the reward scheme (which encourages a "win at all costs" mentality, a mentality that the media, and even more so, the fans fuel themselves) and it will force teams to adapt.

As for saying Dublin would never play like that, they probably won't any time soon but it's a hypothetical question, so dodging it answers nothing.

Dangerous Man

rossie1977 wrote: »

dublin play a defensive style of football so there are not a million miles away from adopting donegals ultra defense unit play, dublins tactics for most of that game was to lob the ball in high to brogan and niall mcgee won it nearly every time, when donegal had the ball in dublins half there were 10 and sometimes 12 dublin players back behind the ball

i haven't seen anyone from donegal complaining, if they are then they need to cop themselves on, donegal hadn't won ulster in 20 years before this year, the last time they came to croke park they were beat by 14 points and conceded 1-27, fast forward 2 years later and they came within a whisker of getting to an all-ireland final

Donegal aren't just ultra-defensive though. They're also ultra-cynical. Dublin don't play like that. And they certainly don't park 15 players in their own half of the field. They do use the blanket defence but also recognize the neccessity for attack. They're quite a bit different.

If you feel that the ends justify the means - fine - but most people don't share that opinion. From any point of view outside of a Donegal GAA fan's desperate for some success, it's horrific stuff to watch.

TokenWhite

Dangerous Man wrote: »

If you feel that the ends justify the means - fine - but most people don't share that opinion. From any point of view outside of a Donegal GAA fan's desperate for some success, it's horrific stuff to watch.

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I would say that , and I'm sure it's the case in most counties, donegal supporters enjoy watching donegal regardless of the brand of football on display. It's almost inherent, in me at least, the excitement, tension and nerves I feel before, during and after the game are all part of the buzz.

Of course I wouldn't suffer poor football as a neutral but in saying that I wouldn't whinge and complain about it a the way that seems to have become 2nd nature to most people the past few weeks, I'd simply watch something else.

evo20

rossie1977 wrote: »

if dublin go out and try to beat kerry playing football they will be murdered and it will be 2009 all over again, i was at that game, it was over after 10 mins

Thats ridiculous, also use your crystal ball to get me the lotto numbers.

Kerry like Dublin are not invincible and kerry are beatable, especially by Dublin who have a quality side. Its 70+ minutes of football.
Anything can happen.

Jimmy Magee

Brendan97 wrote: »

nearly everyone i know likes the way they play
they work hard to gain posession and work up the field with quick hand passing which i love

Indeed. I only hear people from other counties saying they were talking to Mr and Mrs X from Donegal who were disgusted with the play.

I don't think these "sources" even exist!

The referee should have been from Munster or Connaught maybe but definitely not Leinster of all places.

Far too handy at giving out frees for his province's team.

Jimmy Magee

evo20 wrote: »

Kerry like Dublin are not invincible and kerry are beatable, especially by Dublin who have a quality side. Its 70+ minutes of football.
Anything can happen.

Indeed. Dublin to have a whirlwind performance like they did against Tyrone. They'll have no bother putting around 1-22 between the posts.

Wait. Weren't they meant to do that against Donegal. All the folk in the stadium predicting a high-scoring game. They should've known better. How could they expect to score so highly against Donegal?

If Donegal played this type of attractive football that everyone desires then they would never have got to the semis or even won the Ulsters.

In the end all that matters is winning. If Dublin got to a final each year parking the bus then their would be no complaints.

Dangerous Man

Jimmy Magee wrote: »

Indeed. I only hear people from other counties saying they were talking to Mr and Mrs X from Donegal who were disgusted with the play.

I don't think these "sources" even exist!

The referee should have been from Munster or Connaught maybe but definitely not Leinster of all places.

Far too handy at giving out frees for his province's team.

FFS. If you really, really believe that - and you're not a troll - then you should just stop watching Gaelic football. Just don't do it anymore. Stop. Go watch something else - anything. Table tennis. Darts. Nascar.

Jimmy Magee

I kinda believe it.

He made plenty of questionable calls.

Jimmy Magee

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wow sierra

Haven't read the whole thread but I agree that there was an overreaction in the media to this game and to Donegal in general. I was at the Donegal Kildare game and while the first half was forgettable the 2nd half and the extra time was the stuff of legend. It was a privilege to be there. There was a swell of good will towards Donegal after that game.

Back to the Dublin game - Donegal managed to score some fantastic points from play in the first half of that game. The passing game they play was really impressive to watch in some ways, the passes were inch perfect- I have seen enough go rediculously astray in games to be impressed by that . They controlled possession against a team they were rank outsiders against. Of course it failed in the end because it is hard to keep up that workrate and they had no plan B. Plus I agree that Dublin got some handy frees at crucial times. What kind of game do people want - a nice open defence like Tyrone this year who made Roscommon forwards look great and then made Dublin look like champions??? Great to watch but I would't coach it.

These are amatuer players and they gave up their time and energy and honed that game plan brilliantly over the year to finish 3rd in the Country and in Div 1. Fair play to them and never mind the begrudgers. We heard the same rubbish about Tyrone when they started winning. Teams need to get used to winning - Donegal now have a league title and an Ulster title this year. They can build on that.

My response to some of the crap on The Sunday Game is simply - TG4 All Ireland Gold - the glory days when ye were playing weren't always so glorious.