Is Anderson Silva a chicken?

Be like Nutella

I think he's a legend like everyone else but has he been fighting out of his natural weight group and therefore beating up smaller guys in a way?

He said himself he walks around north of 220 lb....even as high as 230!!

Surely he needs to beat a few of the top 205 guys to confirm his legacy as the greatest MMA fighter ever.

Machida, Jones, Evans, Bader, Shogun, Henderson, Jackson, Davis, Mousasi...

How many of these guys could he beat realistically?

He's a big and string as most of them.

Any thoughts?

paulmclaughlin

He weighs in at middleweight, therefore, he's not 'beating up smaller guys'.

Do you compete? If so, do you compete at your walk-around weight and how have you done so far?

This is what cutting weight is all about. Recovering faster after weigh in's to give yourself a weight advantage over others, same as training harder and having higher cardio.

Oh_Noes

I wouldn't buy into that at all. He's never had any problems making weight as far as I can remember. He also has beaten Dan Henderson who's on your list. Btw Hendo lost to Jake Shields (who's a Welterweight) and then two fights later won against Fedor (at Heavyweight).

Bigger doesn't neccessarily mean better, it usually means slower but harder hitting. The last LHW Silva fought was Forrest Griffin who's a former champ of that division and he made him look like an amatuer.

Randy Couture moved up to Heavyweight when he felt he had a better chance against heavier opponents rather than the guys at 205 which would have been his more natural weight class. He won the championship at Heavyweight.

Be like Nutella

Paul, you're a fighter I think... no I don't compete...just asking for opinions tis all... I agree that weight strategy is on par with any other i.e. strength training, cardio etc.. no doubt you've tried like everyone else to be as big and strong as possible within you're weight group to stack as many odds in your favour as possible...

I just think there's something wrong with Silva not moving up at this stage... most people reckon he could take a lot of the 205 guys...maybe even all of them bar Jones? so why doesn't he just move up or retire...there's no competition for him at 185... he'd easily beat Hendo at 185 IMO....but at 205 he'd have challenges deffinitely...so why shy away....money? I don't accept that 'this is his weight group' thing...he is a natural 205er end of story who fights at 185 because it gives him an advantage...therefore is he not in a way chickening out of his natural weight range?

I think so.... but then again I reckon he's mince everyone bar Jones

I just think that if he retired today....there'd be question marks over how great he was based on this weight issue

Richy06

You do realise that almost every fighter cuts to the weight class below their walk around weight? Barring afew exceptions to the rule - Frankie Edgar for one off the top of my head - this is the norm. Not only Anderson Silva. There's also the issue of him being a title holder in his division.
To move weight classes he'd have to probably vacate his belt. He's also stated in the past that as some of his team mates and close friends call the Light Heavyweight division their home he's been reluctant to make a move to 205lbs permanent.

paulmclaughlin

Be like Nutella wrote: »

Paul, you're a fighter I think... no I don't compete...just asking for opinions tis all... I agree that weight strategy is on par with any other i.e. strength training, cardio etc.. no doubt you've tried like everyone else to be as big and strong as possible within you're weight group to stack as many odds in your favour as possible...

I just think there's something wrong with Silva not moving up at this stage... most people reckon he could take a lot of the 205 guys...maybe even all of them bar Jones? so why doesn't he just move up or retire...there's no competition for him at 185... he'd easily beat Hendo at 185 IMO....but at 205 he'd have challenges deffinitely...so why shy away....money? I don't accept that 'this is his weight group' thing...he is a natural 205er end of story who fights at 185 because it gives him an advantage...therefore is he not in a way chickening out of his natural weight range?

Yeah but I'm an amateur. Why move up when he's doing great at the level he's at? And he has talked about retiring at one point. You don't seem to understand that he may walk around as a natural 205 but everyone in their division, bar a few, cut weight. So why put himself at a disadvantage and risk ruining his very impressive record?

He's not 'chickening out' as he cuts weight like everyone else does.

The Bored One

To be honest saying he needs to fight outside of his weight class to prove anything has as much validity as saying he needs to fight with one hand behind his back.
In both cases its questioning him for not fighting with a handicap or disadvantage.

K.Byrne_BJJ

how do you think silva is a chicken? he destroyed Vitor Belfort who was LH champion in UFC and in Cage Rage, you say he is fighting smaller guys... belfort is 6`0ft , forrest griffin is 6`3, chael sonnen is 6`1, Silva is 6`2 how on earth does he have to fight at light heavyweight or any other weight to prove anything? he has broke every record in UFC and is undefeated since 2006.. look at his fight record of who he fought! the man is the best MMA fighter that ever lived

Be like Nutella

I don't think I disagree with anything said actually...I'm just saying most people think he's a natural 205er no matter which way you cut it...therefore...fight 205 guys... I don't care about belts or what other fighters are doing.... I just think if you just consider his size and ability and the lack of competition for him at 185 anywhere in the world you come up with the same conclusion: he should fight 205 now...or retire....and if he doesn't it's because of either money, fear of tarnishing his legacy, not wanting to fight team mates or other non fighting related reasons...he's as fit as he's ever been, probably better than he's ever been.... and to fight at 205 would not be to fight with a handicap...as I say the man is deffinitely a natural 205er...I don't mean just walks around above his weight...I know every fighter does...he is in every way a natural 205er so he should fight there...especially now that he's kicked everybody's ass in his division and is at his peak... and yes I believe he is the most gifted martial artist to ever live...followed by Fedor then GSP

Forget the GSP fight though...GSP would be murdered

I want to see Silva v Jackson, Silva v Jones, Silva v Evans.... he should just grow a pair and move up and take these guys on...or he's a pussy : ) (he says tongue very firmly in cheek)

Clive

What does "natural" light heavyweight mean?

Be like Nutella

It means Silva walks around at the weight that 205 fighters walk around at... yet you don't see most of them cut to 185.... they fight 205 guys like they should....

hey...I'm obviously just stirrin the pot a bit here...it's not like I always thought he was dodgin the 205 guys... he's been amazing at 185 ....and it's been impressive how he's been able to cut to 185 from 220+...most guys walkin around at 225 couldn't or wouldn't do it...and the fact he HAS been cutting so much all this time...makes him eceptional....at cutting....therefore...unusual and not normal...hence the validity of the argument that his expected fighting weight is at 205 and not at 185... and anyway this argument is obviously not valid on a weight-only thesis.... in Silva's case...being exceptional.... he just has no fights left....plus he's more than capable at fighting within and beating almost all of the 205 weight group in the UFC.....so if he can....easily....compete there....and would gain waaaaay more respect for doin it...why not? If he's goin to retire soon...fine...but his sponsorship deal with Ronaldo's '9ine' and Nike probably means he signed for multiple years..which would be the norm....2 at least anyway... so I would not expect him to retire for at least 2 years...in which time he could fight Sonnen...move up....and fight Jones...and maybe one or two others...all of which would make him and Dana tons of dough and raise him to the level of a fighting god!

callaway92

I can't believe people are genuinely replying to that travesty of an OP

Be like Nutella

good lad very constructive



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/827719-anderson-silva-5-light-heavyweights-wholl-give-him-a-run-for-his-money

Clive

Be like Nutella wrote: »

It means Silva walks around at the weight that 205 fighters walk around at... yet you don't see most of them cut to 185.... they fight 205 guys like they should....

When Silva steps into the cage at middleweight he's probably around 200-205 pounds. Most light heavyweights would be 225 or so.

He might diet from 225, but he's not cutting 40 pounds.

Be like Nutella

I agree... he doesn't fight 40 lbs lighter than he walks around at... so what...he fights at prob 205/10.... so IF he fought in the 205 division he would beef up a bit very quickly and cut from 225 to 205 for wiegh in and fight at 225 like the other 205 guys... and it wouldn't be any problem to Silva .....

Okami was the most powerful guy at 185 ...my arse...when they squared up Silva was still bigger

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=okami+silva+touch+gloves&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&rls=com.microsoft:en-ie:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ADRA_en&tbm=isch&tbnid=1bZMnOQKEvlu2M:&imgrefurl=http://mma.sbnation.com/2011/8/29/2390323/ufc-134-results-anderson-silva-outclasses-yushin-okami&docid=xaaWOesGXQHkmM&itg=1&w=500&h=320&ei=ZWpeTv6CJ8u68gOM3u3GAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=199&vpy=239&dur=5016&hovh=180&hovw=281&tx=216&ty=78&page=3&tbnh=119&tbnw=159&start=32&ndsp=17&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:32&biw=1024&bih=539

Clive

Be like Nutella wrote: »

I agree... he doesn't fight 40 lbs lighter than he walks around at... so what...he fights at prob 205/10.... so IF he fought in the 205 division he would beef up a bit very quickly and cut from 225 to 205 for wiegh in and fight at 225 like the other 205 guys... and it wouldn't be any problem to Silva .....

Okami was the most powerful guy at 185 ...my arse...when they squared up Silva was still bigger

So you're saying that he could bulk up if he wanted? Isn't that true of a whole host of fighters, not just Silva?

Be like Nutella

sort of...but moreso he wouldn't need to....he'd just cut less (water) and retain more muscle weight... I think his frame is built to hold more muscle than he does normally and at 205 (for the rest of his career) that muscle would benefit him.

I asked the question: Is Anderson Silva a chicken?
I didn't say I think he is...although I would question his guts if he didn't take a shot at Jones if it was there.

Everybody wants to see GSP fight a few of the 185 guys... and everybody wants Silva v Jones.... in GSP's case he is not a natural 185er in my view.... big sure...but not fit to face Hendo etc.. also too short...whereas Silva is just MADE for 205..and has been able to cut to 185 for years now and dominate....let's see what he can do at 205 !! I'm not the only one calling him out.... it's all over the net... I would genuinely question his legacy if he doesn't fight at least 2 top 205ers (Griffin isn't one) before he retires... I can't expect him to trounce the top 5 guys and therefore be considered the best 205 and 185er...unlikely with Jones on the rise anyway...but if he's fit to fight and at the top of his game with nobody left to challenge him at 185 and he intends to fight for another2 or 3 years then he IS a chicken if he doesn't move up....and under those conditions...many would agree

Richy06

To be honest, I don't think Anderson Silva will care all that much if you question his legacy if he doesn't move up to 205.

Fall_Guy

Be like Nutella wrote: »

sort of...but moreso he wouldn't need to....he'd just cut less (water) and retain more muscle weight... I think his frame is built to hold more muscle than he does normally and at 205 (for the rest of his career) that muscle would benefit him.

I asked the question: Is Anderson Silva a chicken?
I didn't say I think he is...although I would question his guts if he didn't take a shot at Jones if it was there.

Everybody wants to see GSP fight a few of the 185 guys... and everybody wants Silva v Jones.... in GSP's case he is not a natural 185er in my view.... big sure...but not fit to face Hendo etc.. also too short...whereas Silva is just MADE for 205..and has been able to cut to 185 for years now and dominate....let's see what he can do at 205 !! I'm not the only one calling him out.... it's all over the net... I would genuinely question his legacy if he doesn't fight at least 2 top 205ers (Griffin isn't one) before he retires... I can't expect him to trounce the top 5 guys and therefore be considered the best 205 and 185er...unlikely with Jones on the rise anyway...but if he's fit to fight and at the top of his game with nobody left to challenge him at 185 and he intends to fight for another2 or 3 years then he IS a chicken if he doesn't move up....and under those conditions...many would agree

I've heard talk of Anderson silva walking around at 220 before, but frankly, if he ever weighs that much he must get well out of shape between fights. He's not a thickly muscled person, and never has been. His first fight with okami was at 175. He came in at 183 or 184 for the most recent Okami fight, that doesn't strike me as someone who is killing himself to make weight.

While his frame is larger than many 185lbers, I would think that quite a large number of the top middleweights would have a clear strength/power advantage (now whether they have the technique to make that count in the clinch or on the ground is another matter, but we are talking about purely physical advantages here).

If you put him beside nearly all 205lbers he is clearly undersized, with most of them weighing within the region of 220lbs when IN SHAPE and on fight night. You're saying that Anderson is a coward because he doesn't constantly fight people 20lbs heavier than him? Or are you suggesting that Anderson wouldn't have to add significant lean muscle mass to match most 205lbers for size? This just isn't the case.

Be like Nutella

wellity well....

IF.... he isn't retiring for 2 years+ ...hypothetically... AND we can all agree bar a Sonnen rematch there's no tough fights left at 185.....then....any fights he did take at 185 would be surrounded by criticism that he's fighting (relatively speaking) mugs !! and that would effect his legacy...and that..he would care about...so it's all the same point really... he retires...or he moves up...or he'll be criticised for no risk easy money fights when he has the option to compete well at 205 for his fans!!.... he somply does not have the choice to fight another easy fight.... We all went along for the ride with the Okami buzz...but really none of us thought he really had a chance...Sonnen was the one to hype it up...and Dana played it masterfully.... unlike Belfort who was widely and rightly considered a real threat...before he got bitch slapped...embarrassingly..which just underlines the fact ...again...that Silva is another class...and needs to move the hell up and fight guys his own natural weight and size and really impress me before he retires...which should obviously be is main concern : )

Fall_Guy

Be like Nutella wrote: »

wellity well....

IF.... he isn't retiring for 2 years+ ...hypothetically... AND we can all agree bar a Sonnen rematch there's no tough fights left at 185.....then....any fights he did take at 185 would be surrounded by criticism that he's fighting (relatively speaking) mugs !! and that would effect his legacy...and that..he would care about...so it's all the same point really... he retires...or he moves up...or he'll be criticised for no risk easy money fights when he has the option to compete well at 205 for his fans!!.... he somply does not have the choice to fight another easy fight.... We all went along for the ride with the Okami buzz...but really none of us thought he really had a chance...Sonnen was the one to hype it up...and Dana played it masterfully.... unlike Belfort who was widely and rightly considered a real threat...before he got bitch slapped...embarrassingly..which just underlines the fact ...again...that Silva is another class...and needs to move the hell up and fight guys his own natural weight and size and really impress me before he retires...which should obviously be is main concern : )

most 205lbers aren't his own natural weight and size. Should kendall grove be fighting at heavyweight just because he's 6'5"?! Silva carries nowhere near the same amount of muscle as other fighters of his height do in the 205lb division. While his ability may make up for it, Silva would definitely be at a physical disadvantage if he moved up permanently.

In a way it would seem that you think Silva should be judged more harshly due to the fact that he is more dominant than the champions in every other division?

Opinicus

Be like Nutella wrote: »

which just underlines the fact ...again...that Silva is another class...and needs to move the hell up and fight guys his own natural weight and size

No it just means he is the undisputed champion at 185.

Be like Nutella

Fall_Guy wrote: »

I've heard talk of Anderson silva walking around at 220 before, but frankly, if he ever weighs that much he must get well out of shape between fights. He's not a thickly muscled person, and never has been. His first fight with okami was at 175. He came in at 183 or 184 for the most recent Okami fight, that doesn't strike me as someone who is killing himself to make weight.

While his frame is larger than many 185lbers, I would think that quite a large number of the top middleweights would have a clear strength/power advantage (now whether they have the technique to make that count in the clinch or on the ground is another matter, but we are talking about purely physical advantages here).

If you put him beside nearly all 205lbers he is clearly undersized, with most of them weighing within the region of 220lbs when IN SHAPE and on fight night. You're saying that Anderson is a coward because he doesn't constantly fight people 20lbs heavier than him? Or are you suggesting that Anderson wouldn't have to add significant lean muscle mass to match most 205lbers for size? This just isn't the case.

I agree he would not necessarily HAVE to... but WOULD add SOME lean muscle when he moves up (I'm predicting he will if he doesn't retire)...and this would only be natural...and he would find it very easy to do so.... if he walks around at 220 ...and you're right he isn't an overly big guy....like a Brock in his division...but he is well muscled and very powerful...never over powered...bar in some instances with Sonnen.... so yeah it would seem he lets himself go a bit between fights but I would reckon only half of the difference is fat...rest being water... anyway...still doesn't change the fact he could very quickly and easily move up in weight without being over powered or outsized by any of the top 205ers including Jackson..who he would knock out smartly IMO.

To reduce my points:

Anderson Silva is the best fighter ever in MMA.

There are no fights left for him at 185 now or on the horizon BAR a Sonnen rematch which he doesn't 'owe' in any way. (Be different if he was the contender who took the crown in the first fight)

IF he doesn't retire for 2+ years he will fight at least 3 more times...maybe 4 or 5

Critics will not be seduced by anything but a tough match up...which...obviously only lies in the 205 division....and in the top 10 guys only.

In this hypoethetical 2 years+
Business logic dictates that Dana will give him a couple of top 205ers to build up the super massive dream fight (Bones) and if he beats them (AND IF Jones continues to reign which is probably lets be honest) then the Jones V Silva fight will happen inside of 2 years....and be cosmically big...bigger than UFC 100 !

If Silva beats a couple top 205ers and then loses to Jones...fine...no problem..the guy gets my respect...and everyone elses...but if...he loses badly to the first 205ers he meets...his legacy loses stock...but I'll respect him for havin the cajones to take them on...which he should coz theyre the same size and weight as he is (or should be)

Fall_Guy

Be like Nutella wrote: »

I agree he would not necessarily HAVE to... but WOULD add SOME lean muscle when he moves up (I'm predicting he will if he doesn't retire)...and this would only be natural...and he would find it very easy to do so.... if he walks around at 220 ...and you're right he isn't an overly big guy....like a Brock in his division...but he is well muscled and very powerful...never over powered...bar in some instances with Sonnen.... so yeah it would seem he lets himself go a bit between fights but I would reckon only half of the difference is fat...rest being water... anyway...still doesn't change the fact he could very quickly and easily move up in weight without being over powered or outsized by any of the top 205ers including Jackson..who he would knock out smartly IMO.

To reduce my points:

Anderson Silva is the best fighter ever in MMA.

There are no fights left for him at 185 now or on the horizon BAR a Sonnen rematch which he doesn't 'owe' in any way. (Be different if he was the contender who took the crown in the first fight)

IF he doesn't retire for 2+ years he will fight at least 3 more times...maybe 4 or 5

Critics will not be seduced by anything but a tough match up...which...obviously only lies in the 205 division....and in the top 10 guys only.

In this hypoethetical 2 years+
Business logic dictates that Dana will give him a couple of top 205ers to build up the super massive dream fight (Bones) and if he beats them (AND IF Jones continues to reign which is probably lets be honest) then the Jones V Silva fight will happen inside of 2 years....and be cosmically big...bigger than UFC 100 !

If Silva beats a couple top 205ers and then loses to Jones...fine...no problem..the guy gets my respect...and everyone elses...but if...he loses badly to the first 205ers he meets...his legacy loses stock...but I'll respect him for havin the cajones to take them on...which he should coz theyre the same size and weight as he is (or should be)

Again, they are NOT the same size. look at a couple of the 6'2" light heavyweights...tito...bader....actually go look at a picture of either of them right now. They are like gorillas compared to anderson. I think you're placing too much emphasis on anderson's size because he doesn't get manhandled by other fighters. This is usually down to superior technique, not brute strength.

Also, you are talking like he hasn't fought any light heavyweights before? He dismantled james irvin and forrest griffin fighting at 205lbs, but make no mistake, that was down to between lightyears ahead of both men technically, and not down to being equal to them physically.

Logical Fallacy

Be like Nutella wrote: »

If Silva beats a couple top 205ers and then loses to Jones...fine...no problem..the guy gets my respect...and everyone elses...but if...he loses badly to the first 205ers he meets...his legacy loses stock...but I'll respect him for havin the cajones to take them on...which he should coz theyre the same size and weight as he is (or should be)

He already tooled two 205ers.

Richy06

Well your initial point was actually "Is Anderson Silva a chicken?". Obviously he is not, he is a human.

/end thread.

But in all seriousness, clearly the man fights who is put in front of him, whether they are good enough to face him or not. He has never run from a fight or turned down a fight because he was afraid of them. But if you don't respect him for being light years ahead of the rest of the competition in his weight class and for all he's done, then you are, frankly, mental.

Be like Nutella

Tito and Grove are not good examples

Tito has always been considered a large 205er so no I don't think Silva would land in the 205 division similarly sized to Tito...

But Evans, Shogun etc.. wouldn't be much bigger than Silva up in 205...he'd easily add 10 lb muscle within his first 6 months in 205 and fill out to be as big as any of the top guys....of which Grove and Tito are not part of

anyway...if we wanna talk about size and muscle mass that's one thing...but it has to be taken in conjunction with his talent...which is what I'm trying to say....he's big enough naturally especially when you consider his talent...to compete with the top 205 guys without any power issues....and bar Sonnen then thats where his future inevitably lies (if he doesn't retire).... the ONLY other future he has is one of ridicule fighting easy money fights against no hopers in the 185 division which would yes tarnish his rep and legacy!


He'll move up or retire...

he moves up? he'll beat Evans and lose to Jones

He stays 185? ... he'll win one more, maybe GSP after that (which is a farce) and then retire.

But like I said...why would he just sign a MASSIVE sponsorship deal with Nike (etc) if he was close to retirement...wouldn't make much sense!

Nobody seems to agree he needs to move up or will move or is a chicken if he doesn't and doesn't retire...fine...so...case closed if yez like?

Fall_Guy

Be like Nutella wrote: »

Tito and Grove are not good examples

Tito has always been considered a large 205er so no I don't think Silva would land in the 205 division similarly sized to Tito...

But Evans, Shogun etc.. wouldn't be much bigger than Silva up in 205...he'd easily add 10 lb muscle within his first 6 months in 205 and fill out to be as big as any of the top guys....of which Grove and Tito are not part of

anyway...if we wanna talk about size and muscle mass that's one thing...but it has to be taken in conjunction with his talent...which is what I'm trying to say....he's big enough naturally especially when you consider his talent...to compete with the top 205 guys without any power issues....and bar Sonnen then thats where his future inevitably lies (if he doesn't retire).... the ONLY other future he has is one of ridicule fighting easy money fights against no hopers in the 185 division which would yes tarnish his rep and legacy!


He'll move up or retire...

he moves up? he'll beat Evans and lose to Jones

He stays 185? ... he'll win one more, maybe GSP after that (which is a farce) and then retire.

But like I said...why would he just sign a MASSIVE sponsorship deal with Nike (etc) if he was close to retirement...wouldn't make much sense!

Nobody seems to agree he needs to move up or will move or is a chicken if he doesn't and doesn't retire...fine...so...case closed if yez like?

Grove is a middleweight. And skinny as fook. You may mean bader. Yes, they are big light heavyweight, but they are the same height at silva. You have named two fighters in shogun and rashad who are shorter than silva, and if anything i would argue that they might be better off at 185, seeing just how small rua looked against jones.

You argue that GSP moving up in weight to fight silva would be a farce, but silva moving up in weight to fight jones is the only fight that will save silva from tarnishing his legacy? Baffling logic. GSP cuts more than Silva (proportionally, and i'm talking about water-weight pre-fight time, not fat that is put on when not training) and relies on his physical superiority FAR more than Silva.

El Guapo!

As a fan I'd love to see him move up. Silva v Jones would be an epic fight.
But tbh he doesn't have to prove himself to anybody. I think he's already proved that he's arguably the best there ever was.

I honestly think he'll look to defend the title once or maybe twice more and then retire. He already said he wanted to retire when he hits 35. He's now 36 and still going. Plus he wants to set up a boxing match against Roy Jones Jr. And to do this he'll have to retire because Dana won't allow it while he's under contract with the UFC. I reckon we won't see Silva in the octagon for much longer.

Be like Nutella

I never said I don't respect Silva... He's the best fighter of all time..
I'm saying if he doesn't retire and doesn't move up (after beating Sonnen if that happens) then he's chickening out of fighting 205ers... He MAY actually do all this and move up and kick ass AND beat Jones... It's all completely plausible... That's how good he is! I just thought it was a valid question all considered... And after said consideration I WILL consider him a chicken if he doesn't retire for years and doesnt move up while perfectly healthy and at the top of his game... Which he is and could conceivably be at for at least 3 or 4 more years.

weemcd

The notion of calling anyone who fights in any discipline a chicken is nonsense. For a start.

The notion that fighters "have" to move up in weight is also nonsense. I'll say this now, GSP has absolutly no need to move up in weight to fight Silva or anyone else for that matter. The Spider has no need to hunt 205ers, the two have their legacies cemented, if they retired tomorrow the two will be considered two of the best of all time, and rightly so.

What you are taking is a personal preference/opinion that Anderson should move up in weight and suggesting it's more than that. You are entitled to think this, as it is all subjective. As much as we may want to see fights in another weightclass, I would personally love to see Shogun Vs. Anderson at 205 or failing that a catchweight, should fights like these not happen it will have very little influence on how his legacy is viewed.

36 is tipping toward the end of a fighters career, and probably a little late to start taking on bigger and stronger competitors. I think boxing has birthed this opinion with boxers transcending weight classes a la Pacquiao, in reality a move up in weight in boxing is usually a lot less (usually under 10 pounds) compared to the MMA classes (10-15 pounds). The idea that all fighters need to do this to be considered great is wrong.

Mellor

Be like Nutella wrote: »

but has he been fighting out of his natural weight group and therefore beating up smaller guys in a way?

No he hasn't.
You'r whole idea is based on a complete misconception.

Be like Nutella wrote: »

I just think there's something wrong with Silva not moving up at this stage... most people reckon he could take a lot of the 205 guys...maybe even all of them bar Jones? so why doesn't he just move up or retire...there's no competition for him at 185... he'd easily beat Hendo at 185 IMO....but at 205 he'd have challenges deffinitely...so why shy away....money?

Why should he fight out of his division.
The divisions are quite big in MMA, look at boxing, fighters are very reluctant to give away the smallest bit of weight. Take Pac Man, the bone fide best example of a fighter moving up, yet he is hugely careful at top level and a few lbs ver May weather concerns him. Ditto for mayweathers cut.

I don't accept that 'this is his weight group' thing...he is a natural 205er end of story who fights at 185 because it gives him an advantage...therefore is he not in a way chickening out of his natural weight range?

He isn't a natural 205er. End of story. If you don't accept that fair enough, but you are wrong.

He doesn't "walk around at 230", he might hit that on a bulk cycle between fights, but its not his natural weight. He gets into the ring at 205 or so. If 220+ was his natural weight (like other 205ers), then he would be able to rehydrate and restock glycogen up to that level. He doesn't.

Jon Jones is a small (in weight) 205er. He cuts water and glycogen down to 205 and restocks back to 220+. Silva is not this big, period
If any of the current LHWs could fight in good shape at 185 they would.

I just think that if he retired today....there'd be question marks over how great he was based on this weight issue

There is no weight issue. Where are you getting that from. Cutting that amount of weight is not uncommon.

Be like Nutella wrote: »

I agree... he doesn't fight 40 lbs lighter than he walks around at... so what...he fights at prob 205/10.... so IF he fought in the 205 division he would beef up a bit very quickly and cut from 225 to 205 for wiegh in and fight at 225 like the other 205 guys... and it wouldn't be any problem to Silva .....

The fact that you are saying he should add muscle to fight at 205 proves its not his weight. How long do you think it takes to add 20lbs of muscle.

Could he fight at 205. Yes
Is he good enough. Yes
Would i like to see him there. Yes
Is it his proper weight division. No
Is he a chicken for not moving up. No

Xlami

This thread is a joke, does anyone remember after the Maia fight when Anderson Silva wanted to fight at HW and take on guys like Mir and DW wouldn't allow it. He continues to express an interest in fighting Roy Jones Junior. He's already stepped up twice to take on 205'ers. He's the one guy in the UFC who I don't think you can call a chicken. When Chuck was dominant at 205 who was calling for him to step up to HW and even when Franklin was dominant at MW no one was looking for him to step up. End of the day DW and Joe Silva pick the fights and if they wanted him to fight at 205 for his next fight Anderson wouldn't have a problem with it. (Bar Machida and lil Nog)

You're absolutely right. He's a coward. This chicken needs to bring a weapon into the octagon with him.

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The mind boggles. It really does. I don't know who's been made look sillier, Anderson's opponents, or the OP with that statement (especially naming Henderson in the list).

Hmmmm....

Be like Nutella

Ok for the last time (thank Jaysus says everyone) ....

I never said that he is a chicken.... I Said IF he fights for another couple years and doesn't move up then he is chickening out of fighting 205ers... on the simple basis that he has no more real fights at 185 AND that in his case (unusual to guys in his weight group) he could easily move up to 205 without giving size or power away ... That's it in a nutshell ... And obviously it's just my opinion... Which I obviously reckon is supported by reasonable argument...

At the end of the day... I don't care about legacy and either should he seeing as everyone agrees he's cemented his greatness at this stage.... It should be all bout the next fight .... In his case that could be against ANY fighter in his weight group OR the next and he'd be heavy favourite in almost every match up.

Ush1

Was Silva 205 on the button when he fought Forrest?

He certainly didn't look out sized and was still very lean...

MrStuffins

Sorry for the irony here, but i can't believe people are replying to this ridiculous thread!!

Be like Nutella

Yeah you're right expressing opinion or generally discussing or arguing something out is entirely ridiculous... especially when it challenges your beliefs... Controversy sucks

MrStuffins

Don't be ridiculous!

Answer me this, why should Anderson Silva disadvantage himself by fighting t his "Natural weight" when the guys he'll be fighting against won't be? Why should he get into the cage against a massively bigger and stronger LWH whose "Natural weight" probably matches Cain Velasquez?

cowzerp

In my opinion Belfort and Sonnen are still challengers too Silva, I believe both will beat him if they get to fight him again, so from my point of view the division still has 2 options.

After that unless someone credible to challenge comes along then he's better off challenging himself, be it up weight or at Boxing maybe.

Chicken, Certainly not.

MrStuffins

cowzerp wrote: »

In my opinion Belfort and Sonnen are still challengers too Silva, I believe both will beat him if they get to fight him again, so from my point of view the division still has 2 options.

After that unless someone credible to challenge comes along then he's better off challenging himself, be it up weight or at Boxing maybe.

Chicken, Certainly not.

100% agree with this!

Plastikman_eire

cowzerp wrote: »

In my opinion Belfort and Sonnen are still challengers too Silva, I believe both will beat him if they get to fight him again, so from my point of view the division still has 2 options.

After that unless someone credible to challenge comes along then he's better off challenging himself, be it up weight or at Boxing maybe.

Chicken, Certainly not.

Sonnen is going to sleep within 2 rd's if they fight again.

General point on this thread; Silva started out as a WW and moved up to MW, where he still looks slightly flabby he def isnt cutting anymore then other guys in the division, 185 is his home and he should stay there imo.

Be like Nutella

General opinion out there is that Silva would beat Belfort and Sonnen although I agree you wouldn't completely write off either... If you think he would lose to both that's fair enough but its going against the 'experts' average opinion.

He doesn't owe either a rematch... although as you rightly say these are the only two fights critics would accept... but only because any other match ups would be sneered at.

I DONT think Anderson Silva is a chicken... the point was to debate his possible future... and in the scenario I outlined where he continues to fight for years but refuses to challenge himself against good 205ers I think there's an argument that he would be shying away from fights which most people would consider fair matchups at the very least... and that's the main issue... most people would make him favourite against most of the top 205ers... I personally would bet on him against everyone but Bones.

I accept much of the criticism of my logic here... but the fact still remains... Silva is considered to have no more to do in his current weight group. He doesn't show any signs of slowing if anything his ring craft is getting sharper with every challenge. If he doesn't retire for 2 or 3 years then the only real challenges for him are against top 6/7 205ers. If he shys away from that challenge then there will be valid questions raised inevitably about why he continues to fight .... Money and legacy protection and the unwillingness to enter the domain of team mates will not be accepted as good enough reasons by critics or his fans IMO and that scenario is not a ridiculous unsupportable argument unworthy of thread discussion counter to the less constructive comments here.... otherwise people wouldn't be arsed arguing against it.

I don't think one person agrees with my specific point here so it's probably time enough to end the thread... my opinion yet more informed... remains unchanged... If He continues to fight he moves up and faces fair challenges in front of him or he takes an easier less respectable path!

Plastikman_eire

Be like Nutella wrote: »

If He continues to fight he moves up and faces fair challenges in front of him or he takes an easier less respectable path!

Utter bull****.

Silva has never missed weight at 185, so whats unfair about what he's doing? If he hits 230lbs between fights it just means he's getting out of shape, not that he's some muscular monster who cuts 45lbs to weigh in lol.

MrStuffins

Be like Nutella wrote: »

If He continues to fight he moves up and faces fair challenges in front of him or he takes an easier less respectable path!

Not at all!

The only people who would respect Silva any less for not moving up to 205 would be clowns and haters!

Notice how it's only because Silva has shown that he CAN move up to 205 that people are talking this nonsense! GSP is just as dominant at the moment but nobody is saying "He needs to move up to middleweight or else he'll be less respected". Why? Because he has never fought at MW!

Why would you look for a reason to respect the greatest champion of all time less? I think he should retire on top!

Xlami

If I was Anderson Silva I wouldn't hang around for too long in that MW division. Derek Brunson is coming for him at an alarming pace.

Be like Nutella

that is no lie... Brunson is a killer brawler....unbelievable strength....presses..doesn't stop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iexvl6fTsMA

Dana needs to get this guy...think he's gone to strikeforce tho

Mellor

Be like Nutella wrote: »

that is no lie... Brunson is a killer brawler....unbelievable strength....presses..doesn't stop

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iexvl6fTsMA

Dana needs to get this guy...think he's gone to strikeforce tho

Gone to strikeforce means nothing, Zuffa own strikeforce

stevemc01

Be like Nutella wrote: »

Surely he needs to beat a few of the top 205 guys to confirm his legacy as the greatest MMA fighter ever.

Machida, Jones, Evans, Bader, Shogun, Henderson, Jackson, Davis, Mousasi...

How many of these guys could he beat realistically?

He's a big and string as most of them.

Any thoughts?

Be like Nutella wrote: »

But Evans, Shogun etc.. wouldn't be much bigger than Silva up in 205...he'd easily add 10 lb muscle within his first 6 months in 205 and fill out to be as big as any of the top guys....of which Grove and Tito are not part of

What, what?

Be like Nutella

what?
Actually tbh I wouldn't put Bader in the top guys anway...and yeah Tito was always considered a big 205er...certainly not a top one anymore....although respect for his win recently...

Derek Brunson signed with strikeforce..and yeah I'm aware Zuffa owns that....multi-fight deal probably means at least 3 which would put him out of the UFC debate for at least a year...

Hector Lombard v Derek Brunson is their best possible match up right now... and one of the more exciting one out there....prob give Lombard the edge with experience....similar strengths really...also even though most don't put him in top 10 yet...I would pick Lombard v Maia, Marquardt, Wandy, Stann, Okami and Bisping.

19 fight winning streak, never KO'd...lots and lots of quick flash KO wins....really hurts people....must be an issue with Dana that he hasn't grabbed this guy ages ago... I know there was a visa problem at one point I think...

MrStuffins

Be like Nutella wrote: »

Hector Lombard v Derek Brunson is their best possible match up right now... and one of the more exciting one out there....prob give Lombard the edge with experience....similar strengths really...also even though most don't put him in top 10 yet...I would pick Lombard v Maia, Marquardt, Wandy, Stann, Okami and Bisping..

Not only would in be a terrible idea to put a young prospect in with a guy who holds a World title and fights at World Lever regularly, Hector Lombard isn't even under contract with SF! He's the Bellator Champ. And if i'm not mistaken he's fighting that meat-heat Jesse Taylor pretty soon