McGeeney To Stay. Good or Bad for Kildare GAA?

Het-Field

From Leinster Leader:

ARMAGH man Kieran McGeeney has committed to stay on as Kildare senior football manager for a further two years, the Leinster Leader can reveal.

The former All Ireland winner has been in charge of the Lilies for the last four seasons and he has led them to three All Ireland quarter finals and one semi final in 2010 where they were beaten by Down.

Since taking the reigns McGeeney’s team has never been beaten in the All Ireland qualifier series but the main prize still eludes him and his team. In 2011 Kildare took the O’Byrne Cup but Dublin ended their hopes of a provincial title, while Donegal, after extra time, dumped Kildare out of the All Ireland Championship.

The Mullaghbawn native will have to go in search of a new selector before the start of next season after Aidan O’Rourke resigned his position last week but first he will travel to Australia as part of Anthony Tohill’s International Rules management team. (23rd August 2011)

I am slightly amazed that this has not been discussed at all, and I wish to canvass posters on whether they feel this is a positive step for Kildare football?

Personally, I recognise that McGeeney has rejuvinated Kildare football. His work with the team has returned Kildare to the top-table of National Football, and they have been looked upon as a good bet for the game's "dark horse" tag.

However, this season has been quite disappointing for Kildare Football. Notwithstanding gripes about officiating, they failed to make the Leinster Final, and were knocked out in the Quarter Finals by a team that was well within their capabilities to beat.

At this point, an objective look at McGeeney's record as Kildare Senior Manager is necessary.

Since McGeeney took over, he has won the O'Byrne Cup, and nothing else. He has only managed to take Kildare to one Leinster Final. In the same period, Wexford have managed to get to two Leinster Finals, and one AI Semi Final. McGeeney's Kildare have also failed to turn over any "big-boys". Their biggest victories have come against the former giants of Meath and Derry. On two occasions they have failed to beat a Dublin side which was reduced to 14 men for a large portion of the game. They achieved some moral victories against Cork and Tyrone in 2008 and 2009 respectively, however, these count for little or nothing. Most shockingly, McGeeney's Kildare have been turned over by Wicklow and Louth, while Antrim managed to draw with them. Kildare's league performances have also been poor, and McGeeney continues to fail to progress Kildare's fortunes in the NFL.

I noticed on a Kildare supporters forum the positive response to the news. Personally, I cannot understand how more people are not looking upon this news with concern. Many managers with far greater records than McGeeney's have fallen on their swords in similar circumstances. Kildare have some super players, but one has to look at the manager when the same players have failed to make the grade at Provincial level, or achieve promotion from the second tier of the NFL.

Royal Seahawk

Het-Field wrote: »

From Leinster Leader:

ARMAGH man Kieran McGeeney has committed to stay on as Kildare senior football manager for a further two years, the Leinster Leader can reveal.

The former All Ireland winner has been in charge of the Lilies for the last four seasons and he has led them to three All Ireland quarter finals and one semi final in 2010 where they were beaten by Down.

Since taking the reigns McGeeney’s team has never been beaten in the All Ireland qualifier series but the main prize still eludes him and his team. In 2011 Kildare took the O’Byrne Cup but Dublin ended their hopes of a provincial title, while Donegal, after extra time, dumped Kildare out of the All Ireland Championship.

The Mullaghbawn native will have to go in search of a new selector before the start of next season after Aidan O’Rourke resigned his position last week but first he will travel to Australia as part of Anthony Tohill’s International Rules management team. (23rd August 2011)

I am slightly amazed that this has not been discussed at all, and I wish to canvass posters on whether they feel this is a positive step for Kildare football?

Personally, I recognise that McGeeney has rejuvinated Kildare football. His work with the team has returned Kildare to the top-table of National Football, and they have been looked upon as a good bet for the game's "dark horse" tag.

However, this season has been quite disappointing for Kildare Football. Notwithstanding gripes about officiating, they failed to make the Leinster Final, and were knocked out in the Quarter Finals by a team that was well within their capabilities to beat.

At this point, an objective look at McGeeney's record as Kildare Senior Manager is necessary.

Since McGeeney took over, he has won the O'Byrne Cup, and nothing else. He has only managed to take Kildare to one Leinster Final. In the same period, Wexford have managed to get to two Leinster Finals, and one AI Semi Final. McGeeney's Kildare have also failed to turn over any "big-boys". Their biggest victories have come against the former giants of Meath and Derry. On two occasions they have failed to beat a Dublin side which was reduced to 14 men for a large portion of the game. They achieved some moral victories against Cork and Tyrone in 2008 and 2009 respectively, however, these count for little or nothing. Most shockingly, McGeeney's Kildare have been turned over by Wicklow and Louth, while Antrim managed to draw with them. Kildare's league performances have also been poor, and McGeeney continues to fail to progress Kildare's fortunes in the NFL.

I noticed on a Kildare supporters forum the positive response to the news. Personally, I cannot understand how more people are not looking upon this news with concern. Many managers with far greater records than McGeeney's have fallen on their swords in similar circumstances. Kildare have some super players, but one has to look at the manager when the same players have failed to make the grade at Provincial level, or achieve promotion from the second tier of the NFL.

They have?

Syferus

Kildare would be in the top tier of teams in the country now, no matter their position in Division 2. McGeeney seems to treat the league as the experimentation time of the season anyways.

It'd have been stupid to replace McGeeney, he's took Kildare from the doldrums of mediocrity to a place where they can be genuine contenders. I'd argue Kildare don't have a huge quota of 'super palyers' either - much of the quality in Kildare has been created by McGeeney's obsession with fitness and dogged defence, so the very reason alot of these players are getting credit is because of McGeeney.

If Dermot Earley is back next year Johnny Doyle can move back to a more natural position in the forward line and give Kildare's big weakness - shooting - a more effective boost. If Kildare can actually take advantage of a proper percentage of the chances they create (they created plenty even against Donegal's ultra-omega blanket defence) then it'll be very hard for teams to stop them.

dcr22B

Syferus wrote: »

Kildare would be in the top tier of teams in the country now, no matter their position in Division 2. McGeeney seems to treat the league as the experimentation time of the season anyways.

They'd benefit a helluva lot more from playing in Division 1 than Division 2 though do you not agree?

rossie1977

dcr22B wrote: »

They'd benefit a helluva lot more from playing in Division 1 than Division 2 though do you not agree?

would kildare have benefitted that much from playing the likes of a weakened galway, armagh, monaghan or down last year in division 1?? i don't think so myself honestly, there are one or two better teams in division 1 but overall the quality in those two divisions are similiar

mcgeeney has turned kildare into one of the best teams in the country so him signing a 2 year is great news for fans from that county, i would love to see him managing roscommon if fergal called it quits

Het-Field

rossie1977 wrote: »

would kildare have benefitted that much from playing the likes of a weakened galway, armagh, monaghan or down last year in division 1?? i don't think so myself honestly

mcgeeney has turned kildare into one of the best teams in the country so him signing a 2 year is great news for fans from that county, i would love to see him managing roscommon if fergal called it quits

Games against Dublin, Cork, Mayo (who are usually most effective in the league), and Kerry would be invaluable.

Louth, Laois (Div 2 last term) and Westmeath would also be far poorer than any of the "canon fodder" in Division 1, while Meath and Tyrone are not exactly pulling up trees.

Syferus

dcr22B wrote: »

They'd benefit a helluva lot more from playing in Division 1 than Division 2 though do you not agree?

Getting to play more games against Cork, Kerry, Dublin and Mayo would be no bad thing but even then there's been cases of managers who don't rate the league all that highly - Mick O' being the best example - that have been successful in the championship. The best scenario, though, is Division 1 football.

rossie1977 wrote: »

mcgeeney has turned kildare into one of the best teams in the country so him signing a 2 year is great news for fans from that county, i would love to see him managing roscommon if fergal called it quits

He'd be my first choice of any manager in the country were we to have a vacancy, what he brings in physicality, fitness and defence are exactly the things we need to develop to compete with the best in the country. Conversely a Donie Shine and Senan Kilbride for Kildare would make them almost unstoppable.

rossie1977

Het-Field wrote: »

Games against Dublin, Cork, Mayo (who are usually most effective in the league), and Kerry would be invaluable.

Louth, Laois (Div 2 last term) and Westmeath would also be far poorer than any of the "canon fodder" in Division 1, while Meath and Tyrone are not exactly pulling up trees.

well i remember when we were in division 1 about 2000-2003 and we often topped the table and regularly beat kerry, dublin, tyrone back then in the league and then turn around and lose to leitrim in the championship like in 2000 http://www.gaainfo.com/comp.php?cyear=2011&comp=nfldiv1&co=intercounty&year=2000&submit=Go, armagh were division 1 last year and struggled to beat wicklow, mayo were division 1 last year and we roscommon were division four and we lead for 60+ minutes in that game, kicked far more wides, had more possession, won more clean breaks at midfield and kicked more scores from open play

Het-Field

rossie1977 wrote: »

well i remember when we were in division 1 about 2000-2003 and we often topped the table and regularly beat kerry, dublin, tyrone back then in the league and then turn around and lose to leitrim in the championship, armagh were division 1 last year and struggled to beat wicklow, mayo were division 1 last year and we roscommon were division four and we lead for 60+ minutes in that game, kicked far more wides, had more possession, won more clean breaks at midfield and kicked more scores from open play

First, between 2000-2003 Dublin, Tyrone, or Kerry were not what they are today. Tyrone and Kerry were not the dominant force in football, and the likes of Galway, Meath, Armagh, Mayo were probably better than the aformentioned teams. 2000-2003 was also the period in which Dublin finally got their act together vis-a-vis a rebuild after the 1995 AI victory, which was not properly expunged from the team's system until the turn of the decade.

Second, the fundamental point is that Armagh and Mayo beat Wicklow and the Rossies on the day. While you can reference the detail of the games, the only detail that matters in the scoreline, and in both cases the Division 1 team came out on top. Equally, Dublin beat Laois, Tyrone, Kildare and Donegal. While the league may not matter too much, Dublin still had the beating of all Division 2 opposition which they met.

Lemlin

I've said it all year on this board but Kildare are by no means a great side. They are hyped by the media beyond belief because, as with Dublin, Kildare has a large population and writing about their fortunes will sell papers.

Like I said previously, they are amongst the top 8 or 12 teams in the country but little more.

Het-Field

Lemlin wrote: »

I've said it all year on this board but Kildare are by no means a great side. They are hyped by the media beyond belief because, as with Dublin, Kildare has a large population and writing about their fortunes will sell papers.

Like I said previously, they are amongst the top 8 or 12 teams in the country but little more.

I believe it has more to do with the management than the players.

Lemlin

Het-Field wrote: »

I believe it has more to do with the management than the players.

I'd disagree. IMO McGeeney is getting the best out of a limited bunch of players.

Syferus

Het-Field wrote: »

First, between 2000-2003 Dublin, Tyrone, or Kerry were not what they are today. Tyrone and Kerry were not the dominant force in football, and the likes of Galway, Meath, Armagh, Mayo were probably better than the aformentioned teams. 2000-2003 was also the period in which Dublin finally got their act together vis-a-vis a rebuild after the 1995 AI victory, which was not properly expunged from the team's system until the turn of the decade.

Second, the fundamental point is that Armagh and Mayo beat Wicklow and the Rossies on the day. While you can reference the detail of the games, the only detail that matters in the scoreline, and in both cases the Division 1 team came out on top. Equally, Dublin beat Laois, Tyrone, Kildare and Donegal. While the league may not matter too much, Dublin still had the beating of all Division 2 opposition which they met.

So it doesn't matter they eked out victories? Come off it, the simple fact is that there's not as large a gap between Division 1 and Division 4 teams as some like to think, let alone D1 and D2. Dublin also needed a dubious free to beat Kildare so unless being in Division 1 means you get pocket referees then their league standing had very little to do with the result.

Het-Field

Lemlin wrote: »

I'd disagree. IMO McGeeney is getting the best out of a limited bunch of players.

Players like Doyle, Bolton, McGrillen etc are not limited. While I think they were over-hyped, I believe they are better than you are making out.

To me, the mental strength displayed by McGeeney as a player has not been transferred. I for one would not want him taking control in Dublin.

Het-Field

Syferus wrote: »

So it doesn't matter they eked out victories? Come off it, the simple fact is that there's not as large a gap between Division 1 and Division 4 teams as some like to think, let alone D1 and D2. Dublin also needed a dubious free to beat Kildare so unless being in Division 1 means you get pocket referees then their league standing had very little to do with the result.

Not really. They won the games.

Dublin deserved their victory over Kildare that day, and the details of the game would suggest that.

DoctaDee

Lemlin wrote: »

I'd disagree. IMO McGeeney is getting the best out of a limited bunch of players.

Ah now .. while not da Lillies greatest fan.. I'll give them credit where it's due .. limited players when compared to Kerry maybe, but as an IC team they've a very good panel of players, their downfall from the outside lookin in is the over-focus on physical fitness to the detriment of other areas of their game

Cill Dara Abu

Het-Field wrote: »

Players like Doyle, Bolton, McGrillen etc are not limited. While I think they were over-hyped, I believe they are better than you are making out.

To me, the mental strength displayed by McGeeney as a player has not been transferred. I for one would not want him taking control in Dublin.

I'm sure he would be devastated to hear that :rolleyes:

Cill Dara Abu

DoctaDee wrote: »

Ah now .. while not da Lillies greatest fan.. I'll give them credit where it's due .. limited players when compared to Kerry maybe, but as an IC team they've a very good panel of players, their downfall from the outside lookin in is the over-focus on physical fitness to the detriment of other areas of their game

And don't forget Down 2010, Coulter scores illegal goal Down win by 2, 2011 Leinster semi-final match heading for extra-time until Cormac Reilly decides to award a free that never was, Dublin win by a point, 2011 Quater final Tom O' Connor scores perfectly good goal but ruled out, Donegal win by a point in extra-time.

Het-Field

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

I'm sure he would be devastated to hear that :rolleyes:

MMMMMMMM

All Ireland Final Sunday

DoctaDee

Cill Dara Abu wrote: »

And don't forget Down 2010, Coulter scores illegal goal Down win by 2, 2011 Leinster semi-final match heading for extra-time until Cormac Reilly decides to award a free that never was, Dublin win by a point, 2011 Quater final Tom O' Connor scores perfectly good goal but ruled out, Donegal win by a point in extra-time.

Lookin @ things dispassionately (which is a hard thing to do !) Kildare have had some tough calls go against them in the last 2 Championships .. and the platitude of "these things even themselves out" is anything but true .. also "time is a great healer" .. lol

DoctaDee

Het-Field wrote: »

MMMMMMMM

All Ireland Final Sunday

Kerching .......

Dots1982

The way I see it Dublin are the coming power in the GAA, so while the silverware cabinet is empty and may continue to be so in the future, I would believe Kildare to be behind only Dublin, Cork and Kerry. For those of you arguing that Donegal are better than us because they beat us, I would say without Dermot Early, Peter Kelly & Hugh Lynch we were short some of our best players and obviously we got a 6 point lead turned into a 3 point lead by a referee having a honest guess at what a decision was.

It is frankly very hard for us to accept given the decisions that went against us that Down in 2010 and Donegal in 2011 were better than us.

Kildare have some good young forwards coming through in Dowling, Fogarty, Moolick & Hurley. I think the coming decade could see a real cuthroat rivalry develop between Kildare & Dublin.

Het-Field

Dots1982 wrote: »

The way I see it Dublin are the coming power in the GAA, so while the silverware cabinet is empty and may continue to be so in the future, I would believe Kildare to be behind only Dublin, Cork and Kerry. For those of you arguing that Donegal are better than us because they beat us, I would say without Dermot Early, Peter Kelly & Hugh Lynch we were short some of our best players and obviously we got a 6 point lead turned into a 3 point lead by a referee having a honest guess at what a decision was.

It is frankly very hard for us to accept given the decisions that went against us that Down in 2010 and Donegal in 2011 were better than us.

Kildare have some good young forwards coming through in Dowling, Fogarty, Moolick & Hurley. I think the coming decade could see a real cuthroat rivalry develop between Kildare & Dublin.

Kildare could just as easily have won the game without Early etc. To me, they were the better team on the day. Kildare are better than anything Ulster have to offer.

Dots1982

Het-Field wrote: »

Kildare could just as easily have won the game without Early etc. To me, they were the better team on the day. Kildare are better than anything Ulster have to offer.

Oh yeah, we should have just won the game obviously as we had the better of the game but it is underappreciated how much Kildare are ravaged by cruciate injuries so just thought it should be mentioned.

Het-Field

Dots1982 wrote: »

Oh yeah, we should have just won the game obviously as we had the better of the game but it is underappreciated how much Kildare are ravaged by cruciate injuries so just thought it should be mentioned.

In fairness, ever team will have injuries, or will suffer from some player becoming unable to play. This term, Dublin have lost Paul Griffin to another injury, Niall Corkery to foreign employment, and Conal Keaney to another code!

DARK-KNIGHT

Lemlin wrote: »

I'd disagree. IMO McGeeney is getting the best out of a limited bunch of players.

Maybe mcgeeney would be better suited in cavan with VERY VERY VERY limited players?? Lemlin it appears you seem to be a very bitter and jealous GAA fan or are you just trolling here? why knock every team other than your own county constantly?

bitter bitter man...

6 best teams in the country imo are as follows

Cork
Kerry
Dublin
Kildare
Tyrone
mayo (on this championship)

where do you put kildare between 8 and 12? thats a silly statement, yes kildare were overhyped this year but they are a very good side nonetheless.

im unsure about geezer staying now tbh i hope he pushes the lads on next year i just hope it doesnt end up in stalemate for kildare and he is knocked because he stayed on.. he has done so much for the county...

Dots1982

Het-Field wrote: »

In fairness, ever team will have injuries, or will suffer from some player becoming unable to play. This term, Dublin have lost Paul Griffin to another injury, Niall Corkery to foreign employment, and Conal Keaney to another code!

Mark Davoren as well, Look you can call me a moaner are whatever and I do accept Kildare have a problem closing the deal in tight games and defenitely choked in ET vs Donegal but at the same time we don't half get some bad luck.

Het-Field

Dots1982 wrote: »

Mark Davoren as well, Look you can call me a moaner are whatever and I do accept Kildare have a problem closing the deal in tight games and defenitely choked in ET vs Donegal but at the same time we don't half get some bad luck.

I do agree. Even though all teams do suffer from bad-luck, Kildare just seem to get it more often than not.

DoctaDee

I wonder at times whether Kildares problems emanate from being over trained? and if so whether that whole policy needs to be looked at?

DARK-KNIGHT

Het-Field wrote: »

I do agree. Even though all teams do suffer from bad-luck, Kildare just seem to get it more often than not.

but we as a county need to look past the bad luck, we play very attractive football when we get a good run of luck who knows?:) i hate when we are called moaners though its not on imo..

any word on dublin injuries for final het?

Het-Field

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

but we as a county need to look past the bad luck, we play very attractive football when we get a good run of luck who knows?:) i hate when we are called moaners though its not on imo..

any word on dublin injuries for final het?

The only word on the street is that O'Carroll is likely to be available, while Flynn is yet to be adjudicated on. Fingers crossed both will be available!

I totally agree about Kildare looking forward. Last year, I stated that Kildare should be setting two key targets for 2011 i.e. promotion, and the Delaney Cup. These are totally achievable, and remain as such. Looking back will only fetter the ability to achieve those goals, as it does with many teams, in a variety of sports, who feel that they are often in reciept of bad luck.

Im interested that a poster as knowledgeable about Kildare football as you is questioning (while not disagreeing with) the decision to retain McGeeney.

Dots1982

DoctaDee wrote: »

I wonder at times whether Kildares problems emanate from being over trained? and if so whether that whole policy needs to be looked at?

Possibly, but what specifically would make you say that?

I do think the whole Kildare are a second half team was slightly overblown and had more to do with Laois and Meath been unfit/lazy when we overran them in second halfs.

I would say however that like any team should we play to our strengths and that strength is running and support play in attack and tackling and pressure in defence.

On the whole I'd say our biggest problem is no having a true marquee forward this year such as the Meehans, Brogans or Coopers rather than been overtrained.

Thats why the emergence of new talent is so welcome.

Dots1982

Says in the Irish times today that Paul Flynn has a hamstring strain coming into the donegal game but should be grand for the final.

DARK-KNIGHT

Het-Field wrote: »

The only word on the street is that O'Carroll is likely to be available, while Flynn is yet to be adjudicated on. Fingers crossed both will be available!

I totally agree about Kildare looking forward. Last year, I stated that Kildare should be setting two key targets for 2011 i.e. promotion, and the Delaney Cup. These are totally achievable, and remain as such. Looking back will only fetter the ability to achieve those goals, as it does with many teams, in a variety of sports, who feel that they are often in reciept of bad luck.

Im interested that a poster as knowledgeable about Kildare football as you is questioning (while not disagreeing with) the decision to retain McGeeney.

Don't get me wrong the geezer has reached legendary status but is he another micko can he do what odwyer couldn't and take sam home after now at least 84 years!! I always see clear of my Rose tinted glasses when we go out but everyone whether they say it loud or not must be thinking can geezer make this happen or will the heartache continue for us??

Het-Field

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Don't get me wrong the geezer has reached legendary status but is he another micko can he do what odwyer couldn't and take sam home after now at least 84 years!! I always see clear of my Rose tinted glasses when we go out but everyone whether they say it loud or not must be thinking can geezer make this happen or will the heartache continue for us??

Personally, I believe Sam is beyond any team which is not Cork or Kerry. They remain the benchmark, regardless of their slip-ups to Down and Mayo in recent years.

Before Kildare can be contenders for Sam, the need to start winning Delaney Cups, and gaining promotion. This season, they really didnt lay down a marker, and the victories over Derry and Meath had a "been there, done that" feeling, after the 2010 seasons. Kildare must also demonstrate an ability to beat big opposition. Since McGeeney took over, he has experienced more giant-killings than he has victories over top teams.

McGeeney deserves full credit for what he has done for Kildare. But I cannot understand the unwavering hero worship. It reminds me of Piller Caffery who did all he could with a decent bunch of players, but it was simply not good enough. Pat Gilroy/Mickey Whelan have taken the thing by the scruff of the neck, and have taken two Delaney Cups, while taking Dublin to an NFL and AI Final. I see McGeeney as similar to Caffery. He has had four years, and anthing more than that is extraordinarily long for a manager who has won nothing of note, and is yet to beat one of Ireland's big guns.

I would maintain that a change of manager might freshen Kildare up to the point that they move to the next level.

DARK-KNIGHT

I honestly think geezer was signed for what he has done with the team!!!

But no silverwear to speak of is terrible not even a Leinster championship?? He needs to prove his worth next year or I fear fans will start to resent him!

Lilies should have a lot more silverware IMO. Anyways I have neared the point of a heart attack watching the lads, I need to see something to celebrate I appreciate everything the lads do I would follow them anywhere but please lads lift it for next year?

Also the dublin game this year we choked IMO Dublin have a mental edge over us and the Donegal game we let slip too it was a silly result! I nearly think Kildare doubted themselves for playing Dublin in the semi and that affected them in Donegal game!

Maybe Glen Ryan might be a possible manager like filthy he did it all for his county and was a leaderbon the pitch, would the lads progress under Ryan though? Maybe rainbow in coaching or selector role too

DARK-KNIGHT

Gilroy not filthy lol damn iPhone spell check thing lol

Het-Field

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

I honestly think geezer was signed for what he has done with the team!!!

The same logic seemed to apply to Sean Boylan when Meath inexplicably left him at the helm for four years after his mandate came to an end

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

But no silverwear to speak of is terrible not even a Leinster championship?? He needs to prove his worth next year or I fear fans will start to resent him!!

Silverware speaks. His failure to win a Leinster Title has come at the expense of two 14 man Dublin teams, and Wicklow and Louth. It is not as though great teams have been pipping them at the post.

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Lilies should have a lot more silverware IMO. Anyways I have neared the point of a heart attack watching the lads, I need to see something to celebrate I appreciate everything the lads do I would follow them anywhere but please lads lift it for next year?!!

Every fan wants that for their team, and rightly so.

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Also the dublin game this year we choked IMO Dublin have a mental edge over us and the Donegal game we let slip too it was a silly result! I nearly think Kildare doubted themselves for playing Dublin in the semi and that affected them in Donegal game!

Losing to Donegal was crazy, and I believe McGeeney must shoulder most of the blame. He failed to implement an alternative strategy to beat a team who's modus operandi is to stop others plaing football.

With respect, I believe that at present, Dublin have a little more than a mental edge over Kildare. Naturally, that can be addressed.

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Maybe Glen Ryan might be a possible manager like filthy he did it all for his county and was a leaderbon the pitch, would the lads progress under Ryan though? Maybe rainbow in coaching or selector role too

Like Dublin, a young head, with an old head might be the best solution.

Dots1982

Het-Field wrote: »

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

Don't get me wrong the geezer has reached legendary status but is he another micko can he do what odwyer couldn't and take sam home after now at least 84 years!! I always see clear of my Rose tinted glasses when we go out but everyone whether they say it loud or not must be thinking can geezer make this happen or will the heartache continue for us??

Personally, I believe Sam is beyond any team which is not Cork or Kerry. They remain the benchmark, regardless of their slip-ups to Down and Mayo in recent years.

Before Kildare can be contenders for Sam, the need to start winning Delaney Cups, and gaining promotion. This season, they really didnt lay down a marker, and the victories over Derry and Meath had a "been there, done that" feeling, after the 2010 seasons. Kildare must also demonstrate an ability to beat big opposition. Since McGeeney took over, he has experienced more giant-killings than he has victories over top teams.

McGeeney deserves full credit for what he has done for Kildare. But I cannot understand the unwavering hero worship. It reminds me of Piller Caffery who did all he could with a decent bunch of players, but it was simply not good enough. Pat Gilroy/Mickey Whelan have taken the thing by the scruff of the neck, and have taken two Delaney Cups, while taking Dublin to an NFL and AI Final. I see McGeeney as similar to Caffery. He has had four years, and anthing more than that is extraordinarily long for a manager who has won nothing of note, and is yet to beat one of Ireland's big guns.

I would maintain that a change of manager might freshen Kildare up to the point that they move to the next level.

Respectfully I'm not sure as an outsider you understand what are in the best interests of Kildare football.

If mcgeeney was fired the players would probably revolt.

The Kildare players are not anymore talented than Meath or Laois or teams of that level but they are far more committed and this comes from geezer and the team spirit and unity of purpose he instills.

Kildare fail because of a lack of a truly unmarkable forward, if anyone thinks us not having one is geezers fault then they are missing the point.

Het-Field

Dots1982 wrote: »

Respectfully I'm not sure as an outsider you understand what are in the best interests of Kildare football..

I agree that I am not privy to the politics of Kildare Football.

Dots1982 wrote: »

If mcgeeney was fired the players would probably revolt...

Always a possibility, and I agree that it is better to have the players on the park than off it.

Dots1982 wrote: »

The Kildare players are not anymore talented than Meath or Laois or teams of that level but they are far more committed and this comes from geezer and the team spirit and unity of purpose he instills..

But he has failed to instill a steel which ensures games which are there to be won are closed out. I can see with my own eyes that Kildare are more talented than Meath or Laois. In fact, if I was a Kildare fan I would be very concerned if what you say is true, as it will ensure that Kildare will fall at the first sight of a team which is committed, and more talented than Meath and Laois. "Commitment" and "unity" can only take you so far. I am more worried that McGeeney will not instill the steel necessary to push on.

Dots1982 wrote: »

Kildare fail because of a lack of a truly unmarkable forward, if anyone thinks us not having one is geezers fault then they are missing the point.

Adding a Bernard Brogan style of player will only take the team so far. I believe the mentality is simply not there, and it is the manager which must deal with that.

aidan24326

dcr22B wrote: »

They'd benefit a helluva lot more from playing in Division 1 than Division 2 though do you not agree?

The standard in Div 2 is not that much inferior to Div 1. You're still playing pretty decent teams.


People slagging McGeeney need to remember what a shambles Kildare were when he took over. He has made them highly competitive and for me he's getting the best out of an unspectacular bunch of players. That's all you can ask for.

They were unlucky to lose to Donegal, and we saw last Sunday how difficult Donegal are to beat with their ultra-defensive system. Kildare are not far off being serious contenders and I think they're right to stick with McGeeney for now.

DARK-KNIGHT

Dots1982 wrote: »

Respectfully I'm not sure as an outsider you understand what are in the best interests of Kildare football.

If mcgeeney was fired the players would probably revolt.

The Kildare players are not anymore talented than Meath or Laois or teams of that level but they are far more committed and this comes from geezer and the team spirit and unity of purpose he instills.

Kildare fail because of a lack of a truly unmarkable forward, if anyone thinks us not having one is geezers fault then they are missing the point.

the players play for their county KILDARE the white jersey i yearned to wear at senior level and it never happened :mad:

the players love playing the game and love wearing county colours.. not follow a manager, i think geezer is class and i think he should stay but wait and see when he is turned on for trophyless years as manager.

they played under micko, mcgeeney and there will always be other managers if mcgeeney decided to go.. albeit hurtful short term we would rise again...

Syferus

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

the players play for their county KILDARE the white jersey i yearned to wear at senior level and it never happened :mad:

the players love playing the game and love wearing county colours.. not follow a manager, i think geezer is class and i think he should stay but wait and see when he is turned on for trophyless years as manager.

they played under micko, mcgeeney and there will always be other managers if mcgeeney decided to go.. albeit hurtful short term we would rise again...

Unless the replacement was as fanatical as McGeeney Kildare football could end up in the doldrums as fast as the likes of Monaghan and Laois did.

Every single county team love representing their county but as someone who wants to see Kildare succeed I have to remind anyone having ideas beyond McGeeney that Kildare are a county with two provincial titles in 55 years of trying, no national league title at all and no All-Ireland title in 83 years, there's a huge mountain of historical evidence and tradition to the contrary for McGeeney to overcome to win any major trophy. He's done a very good job and be glad he cares about your county and your team enough to stay because he'd be in no short demand elsewhere.

Dots1982

I think most fairminded Kildare fans appreciate what Geezer has done.

I'm pretty sure each member of the kildare panel have to raise 10k in funds when they are part of the panel so that will tell you what the players think of him if they are prepared to do that along with the training and monastic lifestyle they have to endure.

Dublin are a class outfit now so its unfortunate our purple patch coincides with theirs but I'm willing to endure it as long as some fans don't come out with stuff like he should get the sack if we don't win trophies, we should remember our tradition of winning fcuk all in the past 100 years and been a joke outfit before Mcgeeneys arrival.

As for Het-field's assertion that a class forward will only get you so far, I think its the difference between winning tight matches and not. If Kildare had a guy who was guaranteed to score 4-5 points from play like brogan, gooch and meehan normally are how many matches would we have won in the geezers tenure that we have lost.

You even see how it costs Cork not to have one true boxoffice forward, sure they won one all ireland (without playing Kerry) but they have lost so many because they are short that truly bluechip forward even though their defence and midfield is the best in the land by a mile.

DoctaDee

Dots1982 wrote: »

............You even see how it costs Cork not to have one true boxoffice forward, sure they won one all ireland (without playing Kerry) but they have lost so many because they are short that truly bluechip forward even though their defence and midfield is the best in the land by a mile.

Yeah very good point .. Goulding & O'Connor were highly effective last year from placed ball, but their influence from open play was marginal. In fairness to O'Connor this year there was signs of a lot more to come from him from open play, particulalrly in the Down game ... but as a benchmark in marquee forwards, the All Stars, not finding a place for anyone from an AI winning team is telling

Dangerous Man

He's been good for Kildare - no doubt. There was a time when Kildare were a force in Leinster; they sort of drifted away from that but are back now and are clearly the second team in Leinster - by some way ahead of Meath, Westmeath, Laois et al, but still a bit behind Dublin.

As a Dub I'd love to see Leinster become a stronger province. Hopefully Kildare's improvement will inspire other teams to up their games.

Tucker.Tim

Dots1982 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure each member of the kildare panel have to raise 10k in funds when they are part of the panel so that will tell you what the players think of him if they are prepared to do that along with the training and monastic lifestyle they have to endure.

Sounds like utter BS, what about the teenagers on the panel, how in God's name could they ever afford to raise '10k in funds' to bench warm?

Dots1982

Tucker.Tim wrote: »

Dots1982 wrote: »

I'm pretty sure each member of the kildare panel have to raise 10k in funds when they are part of the panel so that will tell you what the players think of him if they are prepared to do that along with the training and monastic lifestyle they have to endure.

Sounds like utter BS, what about the teenagers on the panel, how in God's name could they ever afford to raise '10k in funds' to bench warm?

I found it unbelievable when I heard, I will try to confirm if it's true.

Het-Field

Dangerous Man wrote: »

He's been good for Kildare - no doubt. There was a time when Kildare were a force in Leinster; they sort of drifted away from that but are back now and are clearly the second team in Leinster - by some way ahead of Meath, Westmeath, Laois et al, but still a bit behind Dublin.

As a Dub I'd love to see Leinster become a stronger province. Hopefully Kildare's improvement will inspire other teams to up their games.

In fairness, it is now a myth that Leinster is a weak province. While the regress of Meath and Louth is to be lamented, Leinster has two strong sides in it. The same applies to Munster. However, their two strong sides just happen to be a little stronger than the rest!

Leinster is, currently, the second strongest province in the country. The ground was shifting last term when the guts of Ulster was knocked out by various Leinster teams. This term, the best of what Ulster had to offer fell by its own sword, or to a Leinster team. Connaught remains the weakest province.

DoctaDee

Any chance we're back to Number 3 in the rankings now ? :rolleyes:

chris2bhoy

Lemlin wrote: »

I've said it all year on this board but Kildare are by no means a great side. They are hyped by the media beyond belief because, as with Dublin, Kildare has a large population and writing about their fortunes will sell papers.

Like I said previously, they are amongst the top 8 or 12 teams in the country but little more.[/QUOTE
would you like to name the 11 better teams than kildare?????? i have kildare in top 4 teams in the country only kerry dublin cork are ranked higher than them and on kildare day capable of beating any of them