web design course

Smokiejam

hi all,
im a beginner and looking to start right at the start....i was looking at doing a course in "madart" on gardiner street but the guy in there said i should try a course in dreamweaver or photoshop first and then do his course....it seems to me there are not many courses out there, and its hard to know where to start? anyone any suggestions of where i should start and what i should do? i would be looking for part time courses as i work full time.

tricky D

Do a search of the Software and Web Development forums using the keyword w3schools. You'll find a load of help in those threads.

Ben Moore

I would suggest doing an online course, this way you can learn and create your pages as you go.

Alison.com is a great website for online tutorials in almost anything, there are html and other webdesign courses to be found.

But to get a good idea download wordpress.com and you can get started right away, if you can see my website on my profile then click that I put it together in about half a day with no website experience.

Good luck.

Smokiejam

hey what does everyone think of this i think ill do this course!!

http://www.gcd.ie/certificate-in-web-design-and-development/

HairMonster

Smokiejam wrote: »

hey what does everyone think of this i think ill do this course!!
http://www.gcd.ie/certificate-in-web-design-and-development/

My big concern is the fact that 2 of the 8 topics under the Dreamweaver section are:

• Working with Frames
• Building a Frameset Page

No one has worked with Frames or Framesets since the 90s!! I'd have to question how up-to-date the content is.
However you will probably still get a basic understanding for working with Photoshop and Dreamweaver which seems to be all you require.

Don't forget you will also need access to Photoshop and Dreamweaver outside the course to practice, and these are professional packages and cost a fortune.

tricky D

That's the guts of $1000 for those 2.

Also the course includes:
Fonts and Colours
Tables (probably for layout, see * below)
Frames

which have been bad practice for quite a while now except in rare circumstances.

DreamWeaver is great for production but poor at design, not the best tool to use.

It also doesn't mention * div/css-based layouts and css typefacing which are the current best practices.

So it would appear that the course content is out-of-date and not based on good practice. Not worth €690.

Be sure to have a look at the threads in the search I suggested in post #2.

HairMonster

I only glanced through the course content and frames jumped out, I didn't even notice the rest. It looks like they haven't updated their course in 10 years or more :eek:

I get the impression you are looking for a class rather than self-taught to get you started? A lot of people find it daunting to start from scratch by themselves so I understand where you are coming from. Once you get a start, you can try the online tutorials etc

Have you looked at any might classes? Lots of colleges do Dreamweaver/Photoshop/web design classes for a fraction on the price of Griffith College. I can't speak for the quality buy they are a fraction of the price of the Griffith College course and you can get a feel for it & get familiar with the development environments. This should give you an idea of whether its something you're interested in pursuing and if its worth shelling out for the software.

The_Shotz

Hi Guys,

Like the OP, I am also looking at starting to upskill and Web Design, Graphic Design is what I am interested in, as a hobby and hopefully work in eventually,

Any one have any views on the CMIT couse below,

http://www.cmit.ie/courses-web-design-distance-learning/fetac-certificate-in-web-design-level-5.html

or one of the following from CMIT

http://www.iact.ie/iopen24/index.php?cPath=1

I want to start a course soon but I am unsure which one.

Thanks in advance

Ben Moore

Is there a fear here against free online web design/html courses?

inov8ionz

All these courses are giving out information that can be easilly found online, you will save yourselfs a fortune by self teaching,i know there is a point in where you will have to get help but the two websites i have listed below have great fourms and the members are always very helpful,

w3schools
net.tutsplus.com

HairMonster

Ben Moore wrote: »

Is there a fear here against free online web design/html courses?

Of course not. But the OP asked about a particular class.
Some people prefer a classroom environment and most people understand quicker with someone guiding them, especially when they have absolutely no experience in the topic. Starting from scratch is very daunting to do on your own and self-teaching just doesn't work for a lot of people.

HairMonster

The_Shotz wrote: »

Any one have any views on the CMIT couse below,

http://www.cmit.ie/courses-web-design-distance-learning/fetac-certificate-in-web-design-level-5.html

or one of the following from CMIT

http://www.iact.ie/iopen24/index.php?cPath=1

I'm getting very concerned at all of the courses mentioned on this thread still include Frames!

I would avoid the CMIT course like the plague - it actually lists table-based layouts as a topic and that is the an absolute no-no for websites.
The IACT course does at least mention CSS-base sites and xhtml.

A classroom-based class is often an easier way to start when you don't know a topic, but if this is already a hobby for you, then you might find online courses helpful instead? They don't suit everyone so you'll know yourself whether they are for you from a learning POV. But don't automatically assume a class will be a better from a content POV than online ones - as we've seen here may of them are totally outdated and would actually do more harm than good.

inov8ionz

It sucks that they try and teach frames that is well out dated and nobody really uses any more, the same happened me in Software development in college they were teaching us about the architecture of microchips back in the 80's there reason for this was in order to know how to build you need to know how everything was built, but i think that was utter bull, they should teach us the basics in the latest technology and web design standards.

The_Shotz

Hi guys thanks for the help,

Im going to give w3schools a go.

I had no idea what frames were or anything and thats why I was looking at a course but after a bit of research I'm beginning to know whats what and understand the lingo.

I also wanted to do a course so I would certified in it but I reckon Im better off doing w3schools and then I would be able to do a much more advanced course as by that stage I should have a good understanding in web design

Can anyone also recommend a good free photoshop cs5 tutorial?

Once again thanks lads

tricky D

Dunno about free ones, but http://lynda.com have some dirt cheap courses, including html and web design.

The One-on-One courses by Deke McClelland are top notch. I did the CS3 ones a few years ago partly as a refresher, but also partly because there's always more or other techniques to learn when it comes to PhotoShop. I still refer to them from time to time. You could join for a month for $25 and download his CS5 courses which I'd guestimate have a size of 6-10GB. (CS3 is 6GB)

http://www.lynda.com/Deke-McClelland/98-1.html

mcR

Hi, I seen your post and thought this course might help

http://www.scd.ie/Web_Authoring_Introduction/Default.434.html

I did the part time computer graphics course there in scd last year and I really enjoyed it. I can't vouch for the web design course but I liked the college and learned alot from my course so it could be worth a try and you get a fetac qualification out of it too

Hope it helps

maupat

Hi all,

I'm also looking to upskill in the area of Web Design. What do ye think of this course as a first foray into the world of web design courses?

http://dbs.ie/Web-Design/Evening-Diploma.htm

All opinions appreciated

anbrutog

maupat wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm also looking to upskill in the area of Web Design. What do ye think of this course as a first foray into the world of web design courses?

http://dbs.ie/Web-Design/Evening-Diploma.htm

All opinions appreciated

Hi Maupat,

DON'T even thinking about doing that course , unless you fancy learning 1999 style table based , dreamweaver template driven , so called design. I made my opinions known on that so called course a while back, you should be able to find it by doing a search. However , they may have upped their game in the few years since I done the course , but anecdotally I hear its still the same old crap.

AB

maupat

Thanks AB.

Are there any classroom-based courses in particular that you would recommend?

anbrutog

maupat wrote: »

Thanks AB.

Are there any classroom-based courses in particular that you would recommend?

To be honest , from what I can see ( and I'm really hoping to be proven wrong on this ) , the web design courses in Dublin ( and nationally ) seem to be of a poor standard. I've heard some ( most stress some , this is in no way a recommendation ) good things about the Mad Art Studios course. They seem to be reasonably contemporary in their teaching. Having said that not having done the course I cant say for sure. Maybe others can give you more info?
Really your best bet in my opinion is Lynda.com. Everything you need is there , and then some.

The_Shotz

I finally decided on a course, had a look at some of the free on line courses and it wreaked my head a bit so I decided on a part time course in WIT, in web design which includes the following,

Course Content:
Photoshop
Fireworks
Flash
HTML
Dreamweaver
CSS
Web Standards & Accessibility

Seems good I like the way it includes photoshop and dreamweaver

Smokiejam

HairMonster wrote: »

I only glanced through the course content and frames jumped out, I didn't even notice the rest. It looks like they haven't updated their course in 10 years or more :eek:

I get the impression you are looking for a class rather than self-taught to get you started? A lot of people find it daunting to start from scratch by themselves so I understand where you are coming from. Once you get a start, you can try the online tutorials etc

Have you looked at any might classes? Lots of colleges do Dreamweaver/Photoshop/web design classes for a fraction on the price of Griffith College. I can't speak for the quality buy they are a fraction of the price of the Griffith College course and you can get a feel for it & get familiar with the development environments. This should give you an idea of whether its something you're interested in pursuing and if its worth shelling out for the software.

hey, yeah you seem to know how im thinking, im really starting from the start and thinking even a basic computer course might suit before i do a course, but i do want a classroom course, but i still seem to be having trouble finding a starter course in web design thats worth doing, any suggestions?

Smokiejam

what about this one?

http://www.dbs.ie/web-design/evening-diploma.htm

Axwell

Look a few posts up, its been mentioned and advised against. I would advise against it also, the course is very dated and they dont teach half the stuff you would actually need to know. You would be better Id say trying to teach yourself a bit first and see how you got on and if you have the interest or not in it and then look at maybe signing up to a course. The tutorial on Lynda are really good and well explained so between those and w3schools you would get a decent grounding and be able to play around with stuff on your own and get a feel for it.

Smokiejam

mcR wrote: »

Hi, I seen your post and thought this course might help

http://www.scd.ie/Web_Authoring_Introduction/Default.434.html

I did the part time computer graphics course there in scd last year and I really enjoyed it. I can't vouch for the web design course but I liked the college and learned alot from my course so it could be worth a try and you get a fetac qualification out of it too

Hope it helps

What does everyone think of this one

http://www.scd.ie/Web_Authoring_Introduction/Default.434.htm

with a view to going on to doing this one:

http://www.scd.ie/Advanced_Web_Design/Default.576.html

thanks for your help everyone!!!

Smokiejam

anyone?

anbrutog

Smokiejam wrote: »

anyone?

The Web Authoring link doesnt work Smokiejam.

Looks like more of the same old rubbish. Flash CS5 tells me all I need to know. It has no business being taught as any sort of web authoring tool in the year 2011. No mention of HTML5/ CSS3 either. Fireworks ?? Give me a break.

Who is teaching and running these courses ?? Why in the name of god can't they get it right ??

Smokiejam

well does anyone have a suggestion for a course in a college environment..for a starter course, i dont wanna "teach myself"....does anyone, anywhere have a recommendation for a college course i can do????

anbrutog

Smokiejam wrote: »

well does anyone have a suggestion for a course in a college environment..for a starter course, i dont wanna "teach myself"....does anyone, anywhere have a recommendation for a college course i can do????

To be perfectly honest , I dont think there is any, not that Ive seen anyways. They all seem to be on the mediocre / woefully outdated end of the spectrum. Its really not a good idea to any sort of course and learn incorrect / outdated information , it'll greatly set you back. I know you said you dont want to teach yourself but honestly I think its your best option. Get some Lynda.com videos and off you go. You'll learn more from them than any course in this country.

One day , I hope to proven wrong on that.

Smokiejam

i NEED classroom environment at least to start off

anbrutog

Smokiejam wrote: »

i NEED classroom environment at least to start off

Actually , try these guys..
Ive mentioned them before, they seem to be the best of a bad lot.

http://www.madartstudio.com/index.php/learn-effective-webdesign/

Also, try to shout less. We're here to help.

Smokiejam

haha not shouyting, just being a moan!! thanks for all your help...i do appreciate it!! madart was in my first post...if you read that you will know what i mean by i need to do a course before his course!!

anbrutog

Smokiejam wrote: »

haha not shouyting, just being a moan!! thanks for all your help...i do appreciate it!! madart was in my first post...if you read that you will know what i mean by i need to do a course before his course!!

No worries

Just read your original post just there.
Doing a course in Dreamweaver before learning basic HTML is madness, and Im sure most on here would agree. I wouldnt go near Dreamweaver until you know HTML /CSS inside out. Its really putting the cart before the horse. So I really dont know what that guy is talking about. I can only imagine that they use Dreamweaver to such a degree within their course that they regard it as a pre-requisite.
If thats the way they teach , dont bother with them.

Given that there seems no one in this city /country capable of running a proper web course and they all seem much of a muchness, your sole consideration should be price. The scd one is €350 , go with that one.

But please , from someone you knows, take this bit of advice. For that money you could get a course or two on Lynda and you'll learn far more. It'd be far better spent that way.

AB

rossc007

anbrutog wrote: »

No worries

Just read your original post just there.
Doing a course in Dreamweaver before learning basic HTML is madness, and Im sure most on here would agree. I wouldnt go near Dreamweaver until you know HTML /CSS inside out. Its really putting the cart before the horse. So I really dont know what that guy is talking about. I can only imagine that they use Dreamweaver to such a degree within their course that they regard it as a pre-requisite.
If thats the way they teach , dont bother with them.

Given that there seems no one in this city /country capable of running a proper web course and they all seem much of a muchness, your sole consideration should be price. The scd one is €350 , go with that one.

But please , from someone you knows, take this bit of advice. For that money you could get a course or two on Lynda and you'll learn far more. It'd be far better spent that way.

AB

What did you start off writing HTML in, notepad? Dreamweaver is just an editor, you'd do a lot worse then to start off using it, I started with Frontpage, shudder. I really cant see how using Dreamweaver would have any negative effects on someone trying to learn web design and you certainly dont need to know HTML and CSS inside out before you use it.

Your never going to find a course that ticks all the boxes, so pick one to get you started then continue on yourself.

Webmonkey

rossc007 wrote:

What did you start off writing HTML in, notepad? Dreamweaver is just an editor, you'd do a lot worse then to start off using it, I started with Frontpage, shudder. I really cant see how using Dreamweaver would have any negative effects on someone trying to learn web design and you certainly dont need to know HTML and CSS inside out before you use it.

Your never going to find a course that ticks all the boxes, so pick one to get you started then continue on yourself.

I disagree. The whole point doing a web design course is to learn HTML. Not have it done for you.

If you mean use Dreamweaver codeview as a tool, then yes that's useful. But doing it with WYSIWYG is non sense if you are serious about learning how to do things properly.

rossc007

Webmonkey wrote: »

I disagree if your talking about using it as a WYSIWYG..

FYP, thanks for agreeing with me

Dave!

Are there no designers on here or elsewhere that could get together and start running some sort of decent class on design? There really is a shít selection available.

99Luftballons

Hi guys,
I am looking at doing a webdesign course too, but not sure where to go. I know self-thaught would be better and cheaper but not sure if that works for me...I already did some basic HTML/CSS courses, worked with dreamweaver once for a bit.
did anyone ever heard anything good or bad about the courses in web design in:
- Dublin Insitut of Design
- IBAT college
- Dorset college offers a double course in web design and E-Commerce Strategies and Practices

also I am confused regarding accreditation: for example the griffith college course in web design is accredited by The Institute of Commercial Management (ICM), not FETAC. is there any difference working in the Irish labour market?
Also I read that the Diploma offered in web design in the Dublin Business school costs 1200EUR (!!!!!) why all the mad price differences?

Thanks for any advice, seems like a school jungle out there, really dont want to waste my money if I decide to to a course as it is expensive enough!

###########sorry just only now saw all the posts abouth the DBS course, please disregard, (still amazed about the prize though!)
my problem with MadArt is that they dont seem to have any accreditation and I also do this for my CV so some kind of somness of accreditation would be good if money is paid###########

99Luftballons

Dave! wrote: »

Are there no designers on here or elsewhere that could get together and start running some sort of decent class on design? There really is a shít selection available.

would be interested if somebody is putting stuff together!

Trojan

Dave! wrote: »

Are there no designers on here or elsewhere that could get together and start running some sort of decent class on design? There really is a shít selection available.

The main issues are 1) the scope is absolutely enormous and 2) the content changes frequently.

Very difficult for institutions to keep up. You see that in traditional software too, where languages like Pascal are taught despite their lack of usage (for the most part) in the commercial world, but to teach students easy to understand best-practices.

There's another thread on here asking about using HTML5 on live sites. Never mind the live sites for a moment, should a web design course teach HTML5? Should it teach it exclusively? Where's the line?

BarackPyjama

99Luftballons wrote: »

my problem with MadArt is that they dont seem to have any accreditation and I also do this for my CV so some kind of somness of accreditation would be good if money is paid

This is the catch 22. You either do an outdated course in an established institute, learning deprecated technologies that are of no use in the real world and get yourself a nice piece of paper at the end of it all. Or you potentially pay to learn from industry experts, gain excellent real world experience with contemporary technologies but forgo the accreditation.

From an employers perspective, I'd rather hire someone who can do the job than someone who uses WYSIWYG tools and Fireworks and has a diploma. Most of the people who you'll learn good web design from are too busy developing websites to become an official, accredited educational body. Most educational bodies are clueless and out of date.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

p

Or, learn the fundamentals of visual and interaction design on a course, and learn the bit of technology separately. The technology might change quickly, but the principles broadly stay the same.

BarackPyjama

p wrote: »

Or, learn the fundamentals of visual and interaction design on a course, and learn the bit of technology separately. The technology might change quickly, but the principles broadly stay the same.

+1. Web designers who are proficient technically but without any aesthetic ability aren't much use to anyone on a professional level.

VivGrise

Hey everyone, I am in the same boat as a few people here, I really want to learn how to design websites and was looking at doing a course in Web Design, but after ssing some of the comments here it has turned me towards the teach yourself direction.

I'm not a complete beginner, I am fairly proficient in Photoshop CS5 and I have being designing posters and logos for around 8 months now, and I'd love to take a step towards webdesign.

What i'm aking here really is;

• What are the necessary tools i will need? ( I have Dreamweaver CS5.5, InDesign, Photoshop, and Illulstrator)
• What are the main things i need to learn, like the topics, eg HTML...
• What tutorials should I use, W3Schools and Alison?

Also, do you need to know HTML to be a good webdesigner? I mean if I built a website using Dreamweaver, would it ever become a brilliant website without being able to write HTML?

Thanks a million, your help is really appreciated!

Webmonkey

There's no such thing as a good web designer if they don't know HTML. I strongly discourage using any WYSIWYG editor. Dreamweaver is great if you stay in code view. The design view is great for people that need to throw together a quick small brochure type website. But if you actually want to become a "web designer" then you will need to know HTML.

You've got all the tools neccessary, if not more than you need.
You will need to learn XHTML/CSS.
W3 Schools is great.

Once you know HTML, then it's time to start bringing your photoshop skills into play by using images with CSS to create a design.

VivGrise

Thanks, thats exactly what I needed to hear!

I'm going to start on the W3Schools website from scratch and do them all!

rossc007

Don't really recommend this for someone trying to learn HTML but it might be useful for someone who is already proficient in Photoshop.

Photoshop has a Slice function that lets you cut sections of an image into HTML. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVfxe4pqvo8

tricky D

BarackPyjama wrote: »

+1. Web designers who are proficient technically but without any aesthetic ability aren't much use to anyone on a professional level.

While there is a large element of truth to your point, I do like this quote.

"Most people make the mistake of thinking design is what it looks like. People think it's this veneer – that the designers are handed this box and told, 'Make it look good!' That's not what we think design is. It's not just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
Steve Jobs

How it works includes the aesthetics, but also much more than that.

sedantez

Hi,

I did the Madart course - overall I learned a huge amount and enjoyed the course. The instructor is a sound fella and a good teacher.

The only cons I found;
-it's very unstructured and informal e.g. no theory or notes
-the course goes at an incredibly fast pace if you're a beginner in photoshop and dreamweaver
-much of the course if copying his code without really understanding the theory behind it.

The biggest problem I found
-the course did not have a final project to refresh everything you have learned and test your skills.

On the flipside, if you are like me and enjoy skipping the theory and getting stuck-in, the course will suit you.

zofia300

I know they teach 'responsive design' in HTML5 and CSS3 at madart now. Also 'mobile first approach'. Comparing to other courses in town that looks pretty relevant. Guy is a professional and teaches whatever he does on a daily basis.

all best