Diving on the GAA

hisholinessnb

I realise this may open a can of worms, but having seen the dive the Donegal player took on Sunday to get Connolly sent off, I can't help but think bans should be dished out for this sort of thing.

Now lets not discuss whether Connolly deserved the red or not, that's been done to death elsewhere. What is undeniable is that the Donegal player dived to try to influence the ref to send him off.

Should he be banned?

Now lets all try to stay on the topic in discussion please

Het-Field

It was a terrible display of gamesmanship.

Connolly transgressed the rules, and I believe he deserved a red, but the player in question is a disgrace. Falling over like a sack of spuds clutching his face was a demonstration of the unsporting nature of the player.

There is no alternative point of view on the matter.

Drummerboy2

Its been creeping into the GAA for a few seasons now. Last season Aidan O'Mahony went down like of spuds when Pierce O'Neill tapped him on the cheek. Cork man was sent off. Dreadful to see on a GAA pitch; or any sporting field for that matter.

darklighter

Couldnt agree more.

Seen it in a local game friday night when a fella dived in the box and the ref gave a penalty.

Should be an instant red card and 2 month ban and that would solve the problem

keane2097

There is an issue here of what the appropriate response to being struck is when you haven't been hit hard enough to be knocked to the ground.

In this incident for example, Connolly first struck the guy in the face, then around the shoulder/neck, and was going for another one when Marty Boyle engaged in his amateur thesbianism.

In a scenario where staying on your feet will lead to repeated digs, but retaliation will possibly/probably lead to you being sent off, hitting the deck seems like the sensible alternative.

Then you have another kind of incident, where a player attempts to hit you a dirty dig, but doesn't connect properly, example being Aiden O'Shea's elbow which caught Paul Galvin, but probably not enough to send Galvin to the deck even though the intent was clear.

I think a player is well within his rights to try and get the guy who tried to do him like that sent off.

EDIT: David Brady mentioned this second type of "diving" as something he had readily engaged in throughout his career on Newstalk last week, fwiw.

Het-Field

keane2097 wrote: »

There is an issue here of what the appropriate response to being struck is when you haven't been hit hard enough to be knocked to the ground.

In this incident for example, Connolly first struck the guy in the face, then around the shoulder/neck, and was going for another one when Marty Boyle engaged in his amateur thesbianism.

In a scenario where staying on your feet will lead to repeated digs, but retaliation will possibly/probably lead to you being sent off, hitting the deck seems like the sensible alternative.

Then you have another kind of incident, where a player attempts to hit you a dirty dig, but doesn't connect properly, example being Aiden O'Shea's elbow which caught Paul Galvin, but probably not enough to send Galvin to the deck even though the intent was clear.

I think a player is well within his rights to try and get the guy who tried to do him like that sent off.

"Try and get the guy...sent off".

Effectively, you are condoning play acting, which is no more than cheating. Your verbal gymnastics do nothing for your point, as the essence of your point is that you support gamesmanship, and attempts to defraud the referee as to the true impact of an incident.

I wonder if it was any other player was responsible for the original punch, would you be as willing to condone such an act. In all other sports, it is considered cheating to react disproportionatly to a transgression by another player.

keane2097

Het-Field wrote: »

"Try and get the guy...sent off".

Effectively, you are condoning play acting, which is no more than cheating. Your verbal gymnastics do nothing for your point, as the essence of your point is that you support gamesmanship, and attempts to defraud the referee as to the true impact of an incident.

I wonder if it was any other player was responsible for the original punch, would you be as willing to condone such an act. In all other sports, it is considered cheating to react disproportionatly to a transgression by another player.

The striking rules in the GAA are extremely clearcut.

If a player strikes, or attempts to strike, another, the rules state he ought to be sent off.

If you as a player have been struck, you know the opponent should rightfully be red carded. I certainly would feel no duty to a player who had attempted to elbow me in the head when no one was looking, and don't see anything wrong with hitting the deck to bring the ref's attention to it.

I'm not playing any word games whatsoever.

I'm not sure what incident you're referring to in the last paragraph.

EDIT: The "true impact" of a strike is irrelevant, a strike or attempted strike is a red card. Diving when you've been struck by an opponent is simply a more pointed way of saying to the ref "that guy just punched me/tried to punch me".

Daysha

hisholinessnb wrote: »

I realise this may open a can of worms, but having seen the dive the Donegal player took on Sunday to get Connolly sent off, I can't help but think bans should be dished out for this sort of thing.

Now lets not discuss whether Connolly deserved the red or not, that's been done to death elsewhere. What is undeniable is that the Donegal player dived to try to influence the ref to send him off.

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. You tell people to stay on-topic and not to discuss the sending-off itself, but then you start the thread with the most warped, one-sided view of the incident you could have possibly taken. Do you really want a debate on diving or are you, as you put it, just looking to open a can of worms?

darklighter

Daysha wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. You tell people to stay on-topic and not to discuss the sending-off itself, but then you start the thread with the most warped, one-sided view of the incident you could have possibly taken. Do you really want a debate on diving or are you, as you put it, just looking to open a can of worms?

He asked in plain english for a debate on diving. Cant get any clearer than that IMO?

Daysha

darklighter wrote: »

He asked in plain english for a debate on diving. Cant get any clearer than that IMO?

That's fine, I don't have a problem with a debate (assuming it doesn't turn nasty). But there's about a combined 100-200 posts on that particular incident in the last 48 hours, so saying it's 'undeniable' that he dived and then follow it by saying he refuses to discuss why is just asking for trouble and could potentially get a reaction from others.

Anyway as for the issue itself, no gaelic football and hurling do not have a problem with diving in games. Other sports do but not us, there are far more problematic areas that need addressing.

darklighter

keane2097 wrote: »

The striking rules in the GAA are extremely clearcut.

If a player strikes, or attempts to strike, another, the rules state he ought to be sent off.

If you as a player have been struck, you know the opponent should rightfully be red carded. I certainly would feel no duty to a player who had attempted to elbow me in the head when no one was looking, and don't see anything wrong with hitting the deck to bring the ref's attention to it.

I'm not playing any word games whatsoever.

I'm not sure what incident you're referring to in the last paragraph.

EDIT: The "true impact" of a strike is irrelevant, a strike or attempted strike is a red card. Diving when you've been struck by an opponent is simply a more pointed way of saying to the ref "that guy just punched me/tried to punch me".

If the ref or another match official has seen the strike/attempted strike, the aggressor should rightly receive a red (whether the ref bottles the decision or not is for another thread). The only reason for hitting the deck is if you have been hit with enough force that you have to go to ground.

Best example of this is from rugby a couple of years ago. Leinster v Leicester in the heineken cup. Julian White hit Mal O'Kelly a haymaker Ali would've been proud of. Did O'Kelly go down? No

If not seen by an official, diving in my experience will not get get a man sent off as the incident hasnt been seen and is probably only going to lead to you getting a few kicks on the ground.

Het-Field

keane2097 wrote: »

The striking rules in the GAA are extremely clearcut.

If a player strikes, or attempts to strike, another, the rules state he ought to be sent off.".

Agreed. But that is not the debate. I agree that Connolly should have walked.

keane2097 wrote: »

If you as a player have been struck, you know the opponent should rightfully be red carded. I certainly would feel no duty to a player who had attempted to elbow me in the head when no one was looking, and don't see anything wrong with hitting the deck to bring the ref's attention to it..".

So if a player throws a small punch into your shoulder, and you go over like a sack of spuds clutching your face, that is not an attempt to con the referee into acting a certain way? Sorry, but if there is no connection, or a minor connection, then the player should be fair and stay on his feet. An alert linesman or referee will not such act and punish it. It is cheating, it is fraudulent, and it is unsporting. I am not condoning violence on the field of play, but gamesmanship is unacceptable.

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm not playing any word games whatsoever.

I'm not sure what incident you're referring to in the last paragraph

What I am saying, is that it is that I believe you are more willing to justify an act which is reviled in most sporting codes because it was a Dublin player on the recieving end.

keane2097 wrote: »

EDIT: The "true impact" of a strike is irrelevant, a strike or attempted strike is a red card. Diving when you've been struck by an opponent is simply a more pointed way of saying to the ref "that guy just punched me/tried to punch me".

Essentially, you have no problem with conning a referee.

darklighter

Daysha wrote: »

That's fine, I don't have a problem with a debate (assuming it doesn't turn nasty). But there's about a combined 100-200 posts on that particular incident in the last 48 hours, so saying it's 'undeniable' that he dived and then follow it by saying he refuses to discuss why is just asking for trouble and could potentially get a reaction from others.

Anyway as for the issue itself, no gaelic football and hurling do not have a problem with diving in games. Other sports do but not us, there are far more problematic areas that need addressing.

Well hopefully no-one will start discussing that incident in here and stick to whether we have an issue in general with diving

I do agree that there are bigger issues that need dealing with but im surprised that you dont think theres an issue creeping into football (i dont watch that much hurling other than on the tv) with simulation?

And not just whether someone has or hasnt overreacted to a strike. Its more prevalent in juvenile games, I'm seeing an awful amount of acting going on and if it continues like this unabated, it will develop into a bigger issue

Cosmo Kramer

Much more pressing an issue than diving is forwards pulling in a defenders arm in to feign a 'foul' and win frees, penalties etc. When this was done by Donncha O'Connor to Ger Cafferkey in the Mayo Cork game, the pundits basically accepted it as acceptable behaviour at half time. Not sure if Michael Meehan was the first to do this but it has been a feature of his play for years now and is, in my view, shockingly bad sportsmanship.

darklighter

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Much more pressing an issue than diving is forwards pulling in a defenders arm in to feign a 'foul' and win frees, penalties etc. When this was done by Donncha O'Connor to Ger Cafferkey in the Mayo Cork game, the pundits basically accepted it as acceptable behaviour at half time. Not sure if Michael Meehan was the first to do this but it has been a feature of his play for years now and is, in my view, shockingly bad sportsmanship.

Missed this game but was Kevin McStay one of the pundits.

I've noticed him commenting on games on numerous occasions that this behaviour isn't on and talking to him in person as well. Martin Carney is another one who's mentioned it I think.

Personally, this really bugs me. Especially in games where there are other officials than the ref who see it going on but wont say a thing

Mountainlad

Didn't see the incident.

Other then O'Mahony's antics 3 years ago I don't think I've seen anything really bad in terms of play-acting.

Players go down after conact sometimes when maybe they could stay on their feet, but then if they stayed on their feet they might not get the free (Dan Shanahan couldn't buy a free through out his career) so I don't have an issue with players making sure they get the free provided there's contact.

I agree with Daysha, I don't think there is a diving issue in the GAA. Haven't seen the incident yet but it looks to me as though some Dublin fans are possibly trying to look for any possible distraction from the red card. The bottom line is that if Connolly punched a lad in the face, he very much so deserved to be sent off, no matter what his opponent may or many not have done.

DDC1990

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

Its been creeping into the GAA for a few seasons now. Last season Aidan O'Mahony went down like of spuds when Pierce O'Neill tapped him on the cheek. Cork man was sent off. Dreadful to see on a GAA pitch; or any sporting field for that matter.

This never happened, just to be clear. Like never.

dring

Very simple Connolly wouldn't have been sent off if Boyle hadn't fallen

corny

Mountainlad wrote: »

Haven't seen the incident yet but it looks to me as though some Dublin fans are possibly trying to look for any possible distraction from the red card.

Thats a bold statement for someone who hasn't seen the incident.

Cheating is encouraged in the GAA. If there was any cop on they'd realise the altercation occurred because one man couldn't control himself. No not Connolly, Boyle. Banning him for a while would send out the right message for the future. Instead they'll uphold Connollys suspension and Boyle will get off scot free. Meaning the diving worked.

D'Agger

corny wrote: »

the altercation occurred because one man couldn't control himself. No not Connolly, Boyle.

Correct that's how the altercation occurred - the resulting red card was a result of Connolly being unable to control himself in responding to such abuse and the Donegal man going down resulting in him having the last laugh.

I don't know about anybody else here who's played football and taken some belting over the course of 60mins but anytime it's happened me I've tried to respond in the best fashion - put the ball over the bar, do everything you can to win the game and if you do - give them a nice fúckin wink when they walk off the field defeated - you have the last laugh

GAAman

Mountainlad wrote: »

Didn't see the incident.

Other then O'Mahony's antics 3 years ago I don't think I've seen anything really bad in terms of play-acting.

Players go down after conact sometimes when maybe they could stay on their feet, but then if they stayed on their feet they might not get the free (Dan Shanahan couldn't buy a free through out his career) so I don't have an issue with players making sure they get the free provided there's contact.

I agree with Daysha, I don't think there is a diving issue in the GAA. Haven't seen the incident yet but it looks to me as though some Dublin fans are possibly trying to look for any possible distraction from the red card. The bottom line is that if Connolly punched a lad in the face, he very much so deserved to be sent off, no matter what his opponent may or many not have done.

Firstly i do not know what football you have been watching for the last few years but diving is becomming a huge problem, not only in the county panels but also club football too.

Secondly you admit not having seen the event in question but you give an opinion on it, which says Dublin fans are possibly trying to distract from the red card. Are you intentionally trying to wind people up? I will state the obvious, i am a Dublin fan and i am not arguing against the red.

The incident in question saw Connolly hit a player ( i refuse to use his name out of principle) in the shoulder, and he went down clutching his face like he had been shot. It is against the charter, i believe to state my full opinion but i honestly welcome this type of tactic into gaelic football as much as i would welcome a cancer diagnosis from the doctor.

Mountainlad

corny wrote: »

Thats a bold statement for someone who hasn't seen the incident.

Cheating is encouraged in the GAA. If there was any cop on they'd realise the altercation occurred because one man couldn't control himself. No not Connolly, Boyle. Banning him for a while would send out the right message for the future. Instead they'll uphold Connollys suspension and Boyle will get off scot free. Meaning the diving worked.

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. In what world does he deserve his suspension revoked?

Just saw it. The first push is ok, second is closed fist to the neck, has to be a red. Boyle goes down holding his face, there was definetly 'gamesmanship' in that which I don't like (the word and the concept), but I think this is very much so an isolated incident.

You definetly don't see it in hurling.

corny

Mountainlad wrote: »

That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. In what world does he deserve his suspension revoked?

Just saw it. The first push is ok, second is closed fist to the neck, has to be a red. Boyle goes down holding his face, there was definetly 'gamesmanship' in that which I don't like (the word and the concept), but I think this is very much so an isolated incident.

You definetly don't see it in hurling.

Its been done to death so i'll keep it brief. Boyle attacks Connolly, Connolly defends himself and because he's a bigger man it looks worse. he knocks Bolyle back. Both men push each other in the neck. Boyle goes down clutching his face and something missed by most the Donegal number 8 then attacks Connolly AGAIN in the exact same manner, closed fists in the neck. Connolly gets sent off. Just to emphasise the point about the GAA encouraging diving. Had Connolly hit the deck holding his face when the midfielder attacked him the Ref would have sent both of them off. Actually if the referee and linesman are consistent they send three players off and i don't know how anyone can disagree. Instead they reward the play acting on the day and i'm nearly sure even with hindsight they'll stick to the original decision. Again actively rewarding cheating.

Just as an aside. I was at the Aviva the day previous for the rugby and there was the same fisticuffs. The referee told both men to grow up and play the game! They did. Its ***in handbags if you ask me.

Prop Joe

Maybe its up to the GPA to make a move on this,After all you are only cheating each other..
Also the rule should be changed to give more slack to Refs

I.E to strike or attempt to strike with force,To seriously injury the player..

That would give refs more slack,Like the Aidan O Mahoney incident etc

Hammer Archer

Mick Lyons knew how to take a punch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWFBVpAtv2s

But seriously, while I do feel Connolly deserved the red (he wasn't 'attacked'), the reaction was embarrassing. But I do think keane has a point. Sometimes officials only take a strike seriously when the player being struck goes down. The incident that sticks out in my mind is a few years ago when we played Dublin and Ger Brennan punched Brian Meade full in the face. Meade stayed on his feet and Brennan got only a yellow.
While I'm not advocating players dropping at the slightest touch, I think referees should deal out reds for strikes whether the player who was struck goes down or not.

hisholinessnb

Daysha wrote: »

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous. You tell people to stay on-topic and not to discuss the sending-off itself, but then you start the thread with the most warped, one-sided view of the incident you could have possibly taken. Do you really want a debate on diving or are you, as you put it, just looking to open a can of worms?

How is it a warped one sided view???
Thats a crazy suggestion.
In no way did I say whether deserved to be sent off or not, in fact I encouraged people NOT to get dragged into discussing that side issue.
I merely stated that the player he "struck" made a meal of it to get sent off.
And its the diving aspect in particular that I wanted to discuss.
God knows theres enough debate about whether it was or was not a red.

I'm amazed that you find my post ridiculous to be honest, if you look through all my posts you will see that I do not engage it tit for tat nonsense and prefer to discuss things rationally.

nice_guy80

just remember how hard it is for officials to spot these things in a split second

But, I also think officials are too lenient on diving, feigning injury, trying to win a free by holding an opponents hand under your arm etc

daphil

This has been going on for a very long time, although it is more common now. The first time I noticed it was many years ago and "performed" by a household name from Down. Of course he always got his free and was never caught.
Dave

Mountainlad

nice_guy80 wrote: »

just remember how hard it is for officials to spot these things in a split second

But, I also think officials are too lenient on diving, feigning injury, trying to win a free by holding an opponents hand under your arm etc

Where is the rule that says diving is a punishable offence? Not saying it shouldn't be, just that it's not. So it's not referees that are being too lenient,

Two things srike me here. One is SOME Dublin fans (as I said earlier, not all but I suppose it was too much to assume the one's that can accept Connolly's red card were not going to take offence) are trying to make light of what Connolly did. There is a lot of imaginary punches supposedly having been thrown by the Donegal player in what I've read from someone.

Would the same Dublin fans have started a thread and be so outraged about diving if Connolly had not been sent off? Or if the scenario was reversed? I have no issue with Dublin fans by the way, and I have one or two good friends that support Dublin, I'm just saying we are not getting a balanced view here at all.

And the other thing, unsuprisingly, is when a dive is mentioned it is often used as an excuse for rival county supporters to have a cut at opposition players. Obviously Donegal and Dublin aren't rivals (or not that I'm aware of anyway), it's just something that is noticeable when a debate like this arises.

bruschi

Mountainlad wrote: »

Where is the rule that says diving is a punishable offence? Not saying it shouldn't be, just that it's not. So it's not referees that are being too lenient,

Two things srike me here. One is SOME Dublin fans (as I said earlier, not all but I suppose it was too much to assume the one's that can accept Connolly's red card were not going to take offence) are trying to make light of what Connolly did. There is a lot of imaginary punches supposedly having been thrown by the Donegal player in what I've read from someone.

Would the same Dublin fans have started a thread and be so outraged about diving if Connolly had not been sent off? Or if the scenario was reversed? I have no issue with Dublin fans by the way, and I have one or two good friends that support Dublin, I'm just saying we are not getting a balanced view here at all.

And the other thing, unsuprisingly, is when a dive is mentioned it is often used as an excuse for rival county supporters to have a cut at opposition players. Obviously Donegal and Dublin aren't rivals (or not that I'm aware of anyway), it's just something that is noticeable when a debate like this arises.

I didnt see any thread started when Rory O Carroll dived after being shoved by Ronan Sweeney in the Kildare game, other than people saying Sweeney should have got a red card.

premierstone

dring wrote: »

Very simple Connolly wouldn't have been sent off if Boyle hadn't fallen

So by doing what he did Boyle ensured the rules were applied correctly, fair dues to him.

listermint

Mountainlad wrote: »

Where is the rule that says diving is a punishable offence? Not saying it shouldn't be, just that it's not. So it's not referees that are being too lenient,

Two things srike me here. One is SOME Dublin fans (as I said earlier, not all but I suppose it was too much to assume the one's that can accept Connolly's red card were not going to take offence) are trying to make light of what Connolly did. There is a lot of imaginary punches supposedly having been thrown by the Donegal player in what I've read from someone.

Would the same Dublin fans have started a thread and be so outraged about diving if Connolly had not been sent off? Or if the scenario was reversed? I have no issue with Dublin fans by the way, and I have one or two good friends that support Dublin, I'm just saying we are not getting a balanced view here at all.

And the other thing, unsuprisingly, is when a dive is mentioned it is often used as an excuse for rival county supporters to have a cut at opposition players. Obviously Donegal and Dublin aren't rivals (or not that I'm aware of anyway), it's just something that is noticeable when a debate like this arises.

Its on video, there was 3 players involved nothing imaginary about it. All 3 should have been reprimanded not just 1 as was the case.

Theres your 'balance' (so called)

hisholinessnb

Lads can we not just avoid the same tired old debates on the incident that have been done to death.

This thread is specifically asking if a player who dives to influence the referee should be punished in retrospect.

The incident with Connolly got me thinking about it, but I suppose knowing the way these threads tend to go I should have asked the question in general without mentioning this particular incident.
Can we just have a mature debate about whether players diving should be punished or not??

keane2097

The answer is obviously "it depends".

Threads like this are always crap because you'll always have people who want to put everything in generalities, e.g. Het-field's reply to my post where he quotes a big chunk of my post, writes "essentially what you're saying is" and then completely strips what I'm saying of the entirety of it's context in a clumsy attempt to make my extremely specific statement into a general one.

Debates are only ever interesting when they are centred around the grey areas of a topic, unfortunately internet fora are typically the haunt of people who only want to speak in boring, boring black and white generalities.

hisholinessnb

keane2097 wrote: »

Debates are only ever interesting when they are centred around the grey areas of a topic

That's all very well but lets at least keep it somewhere near the topic.
Talk of all the grey areas you like, once it stays on the topic of diving.

listermint

Well then, Yes players should certainly be booked and carded for 'trick acting' as i like to call it.

Its not the players job to bring these incidents to the officials attention, they should be more concerned with playing the game and let the officials look after the match and the rules.

Otherwise youll end up like Arsenal or United whom see no issue with 8 players crowding around the ref calling for free's / cards / sending offs etc etc... lets face it, who wants to see that crap.

DoctaDee

You start to understand the underlying nature of diving ... when it's seen as a relevant "tactic" in sport .. we've had soccer replace diving with the cringeworthy euphemism "simulation" and even our own game is now hiding it as " a bit of cuteness"

The bit of cuteness .. allows teams with great freetakers to exploit this tactic inside opponents 45's .. once they see the whitewash they're waiting for contact ... Tony Davis nearly said as much when commenting that if Dublin had a bit more cuteness like Kerry against Donegal they could have won more frees by going down that bit quicker

keane2097

hisholinessnb wrote: »

That's all very well but lets at least keep it somewhere near the topic.
Talk of all the grey areas you like, once it stays on the topic of diving.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest the Connolly incident - or any specific incident - was what I wanted to discuss. I'm just saying these threads aren't going to get anything illuminating because of the type of context-less argument style I mentioned.

I already made my attempt at contributing and got snap-called an anti-Dub, in spite of the fact that when I made my hypothetical post the incident I had in mind involved Kerry and Mayo. I'm unlikely to add anymore, but hope it goes well.

DoctaDee

keane2097 wrote: »

..........I already made my attempt at contributing and got snap-called an anti-Dub, in spite of the fact that when I made my hypothetical post the incident I had in mind involved Kerry and Mayo. I'm unlikely to add anymore, but hope it goes well.

*Sniggerz* ..... One maybe but not both :rolleyes: ....

keane2097

DoctaDee wrote: »

*Sniggerz* ..... One maybe but not both :rolleyes: ....

wat?

DoctaDee

keane2097 wrote: »

wat?

Anti Dub & Unlikely to add anything more. .. !! Sheeesh lol

listermint

DoctaDee wrote: »

You start to understand the underlying nature of diving ... when it's seen as a relevant "tactic" in sport .. we've had soccer replace diving with the cringeworthy euphemism "simulation" and even our own game is now hiding it as " a bit of cuteness"

The bit of cuteness .. allows teams with great freetakers to exploit this tactic inside opponents 45's .. once they see the whitewash they're waiting for contact ... Tony Davis nearly said as much when commenting that if Dublin had a bit more cuteness like Kerry against Donegal they could have won more frees by going down that bit quicker

Id agree with the above, While i totally agree Kerry have a formidable Forward line and Midfield, with the ability to take scores from superb locations across the pitch, equally it is the cuteness factor that has be disappointed ultimately. Im sure it adds a 'dimension' to their game but ultimately i think it is a unnecessary aspect with regards the level that they can play.

Ive always said gooch is a cute 'whooar' . But dont think he needs to be because of his quality.

DoctaDee

listermint wrote: »

Id agree with the above, While i totally agree Kerry have a formidable Forward line and Midfield, with the ability to take scores from superb locations across the pitch, equally it is the cuteness factor that has be disappointed ultimately. Im sure it adds a 'dimension' to their game but ultimately i think it is a unnecessary aspect with regards the level that they can play.

Ive always said gooch is a cute 'whooar' . But dont think he needs to be because of his quality.

It was most evident to me @ last years Semi Final v Cork ... with 2 outstanding free takers in Goulding & O'Connor the early exchanges were dotted with Cork lads fallin over .. later on in the game we gave them reason to alright ! .. and lessons learnt in this years 2 games v Cork when Dublin were very cautious of "fouling" in scoreable areas.

listermint

DoctaDee wrote: »

It was most evident to me @ last years Semi Final v Cork ... with 2 outstanding free takers in Goulding & O'Connor the early exchanges were dotted with Cork lads fallin over .. later on in the game we gave them reason to alright ! .. and lessons learnt in this years 2 games v Cork when Dublin were very cautious of "fouling" in scoreable areas.

So we need to continue with the caution or go along with the falling over ourselfs. An aspect i dont much like in the game of late myself.

DoctaDee

listermint wrote: »

So we need to continue with the caution or go along with the falling over ourselfs. An aspect i dont much like in the game of late myself.

You've nailed it listermint ... you'll always get a few "soft frees" in a match that's part and parcel, but when 2 or 3 defenders are pressuring the ball the opportunity for a "bit of cuteness" does arise and is used more by some than others ...we thankfully haven't fallen that far yet .. if yill pardon the pun :rolleyes:

8k2q1gfcz9s5d4

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

Not sure if Michael Meehan was the first to do this but it has been a feature of his play for years now and is, in my view, shockingly bad sportsmanship.

This has been going on long before Michael Meehan was born!

crucamim

I think that:-

A. Donegal should be banned from gaelic football for, at least, 5 years - for conduct likely to discredit the GAA.

B. The Donegal player who dived and got David Connolly sent off should be banned from playing for life - for conduct likely to discredit the GAA.

C. David Connolly should be banned from playing for Dublin for life - for being useless and stupid.

D. The rules of gaelic football need a change. A player, other than a goalkeeper within his goal area ("the small square"), should be banned, while on the ground, from taking possession of the ball or from retaining possession of the ball. "On the ground" should be defined as "any part of his body other than his feet, being in contact with the ground". The punishment for not doing so should be a free from his own 20 metre line which, if sent over the bar, should count as 2 points. If the transgression takes place within the "big square", a penalty should be awarded against his team.

If players knew that their diving in possession of the ball meant having to release it, there would be less diving - and less carrying the ball into the tackle hoping to win a free kick.

E. Donegal were negative and Dublin were not much better. When Donegal deployed 2 extra defenders, Dublin failed to respond by sending in two extra attackers. When Connolly was sent off, Dublin, in desperation, threw caution to the winds and went at them and, in doing so, exposed Donegal's short-comings. I cannot understand why Kevin McMenamin was not on the Dublin team from the beginning of the match. After Colm Cooper, he has been the best footballer of this year's championship.

F. Besides being negative, Donegal are cynical. Their game plan is based not only on massed defence but also on persistent petty fouling - and on referees who feel under a duty to "keep the game moving" rather than on strict enforcement of the rules. Provoking opponents seems also to be a central part of the Donegal game plan.

Mountainlad

listermint wrote: »

Its on video, there was 3 players involved nothing imaginary about it. All 3 should have been reprimanded not just 1 as was the case.

Theres your 'balance' (so called)

Yeah I've seen it. What Connolly initially does which I see as no more than a push really, (don't think he was going for his face) is what the Donegal lad does after initially coming in and shouldering him after the free was given. Then Connolly punches him in the neck, and throws a punch again though I don't think he connects.

Now your man definetly over-reacted I'm not deying that, but then anyone who thinks Connolly shouldn't have been sent off needs to take off the jersey for a minute.

I think there's more of an issue with the third man in. That I would accept, the Donegal lad really didn't have any business coming in and shouldering Connolly looking for that reaction nor did the other guy that came in after Connolly punched. Though I'd have to agree with Hammer Archer, the use of the word 'attacked' is laughable. Situation reversed, would you use the same choice of words, or would it be handbags? Again this isn't personal towards Dublin fans, you see it from other teams too that they make things out to be unfair on them and such sure I do it myself at times, but I think this issue is being over stated to be honest.

And also, when you've been fouled, going down easier than you have to, to make sure you win the free you're entitled to is perfectly fine with me. I mean think about the amount of fouling that is done in Hurling and Football, you'd never win a free if you stayed on your feet the whole time.

Mountainlad

crucamim wrote: »

I think that:-

A. Donegal should be banned from gaelic football for, at least, 5 years - for conduct likely to discredit the GAA.

B. The Donegal player who dived and got David Connolly sent off should be banned from playing for life - for conduct likely to discredit the GAA.

C. David Connolly should be banned from playing for Dublin for life - for being useless and stupid.

D. The rules of gaelic football need a change. A player, other than a goalkeeper within his goal area ("the small square"), should be banned, while on the ground, from taking possession of the ball or from retaining possession of the ball. "On the ground" should be defined as "any part of his body other than his feet, being in contact with the ground". The punishment for not doing so should be a free from his own 20 metre line which, if sent over the bar, should count as 2 points. If the transgression takes place within the "big square", a penalty should be awarded against his team.

If players knew that their diving in possession of the ball meant having to release it, there would be less diving - and less carrying the ball into the tackle hoping to win a free kick.

E. Donegal were negative and Dublin were not much better. When Donegal deployed 2 extra defenders, Dublin failed to respond by sending in two extra attackers. When Connolly was sent off, Dublin, in desperation, threw caution to the winds and went at them and, in doing so, exposed Donegal's short-comings. I cannot understand why Kevin McMenamin was not on the Dublin team from the beginning of the match. After Colm Cooper, he has been the best footballer of this year's championship.

F. Besides being negative, Donegal are cynical. Their game plan is based not only on massed defence but also on persistent petty fouling - and on referees who feel under a duty to "keep the game moving" rather than on strict enforcement of the rules. Provoking opponents seems also to be a central part of the Donegal game plan.

Yeah I agree soccer was always more his thing.

Diarmuid Connolly however...;)

DoctaDee

crucamim wrote: »

I think that:-

B. The Donegal player who dived and got David Connolly sent off should be banned from playing for life - for conduct likely to discredit the GAA.

C. David Connolly should be banned from playing for Dublin for life - for being useless and stupid.

.

Pssssssst .... Diarmuid Connolly .. David's too small to play full forward

darklighter

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yeah I've seen it. What Connolly initially does which I see as no more than a push really, (don't think he was going for his face) is what the Donegal lad does after initially coming in and shouldering him after the free was given. Then Connolly punches him in the neck, and throws a punch again though I don't think he connects.

Now your man definetly over-reacted I'm not deying that, but then anyone who thinks Connolly shouldn't have been sent off needs to take off the jersey for a minute.

I think there's more of an issue with the third man in. That I would accept, the Donegal lad really didn't have any business coming in and shouldering Connolly looking for that reaction nor did the other guy that came in after Connolly punched. Though I'd have to agree with Hammer Archer, the use of the word 'attacked' is laughable. Situation reversed, would you use the same choice of words, or would it be handbags? Again this isn't personal towards Dublin fans, you see it from other teams too that they make things out to be unfair on them and such sure I do it myself at times, but I think this issue is being over stated to be honest.

And also, when you've been fouled, going down easier than you have to, to make sure you win the free you're entitled to is perfectly fine with me. I mean think about the amount of fouling that is done in Hurling and Football, you'd never win a free if you stayed on your feet the whole time.

i've no problem with going down to win your free in open play once your not throwing yourself to the ground like you've been shot by a sniper.

My bugbear with incidents such as this are players putting on an acting performance worthy of an oscar