Sean O'Brien to 12?

Conas

Wouldn't he be just as good there as he is in the backrow? It's only when you look at his sheer pace and speed, tackling ability, breakdown work that makes me think he'd be an awesome centre. I have heard people talking about him going to 12, and I do agree

He is the same build pretty much as Nonu of New Zealand. I actually think both players have very similar playing styles. I'd love to see O'Brien racing Drico and D'Arcy over 100 metres? Maybe it's just me but I think he must be one of the fastest players in the Irish team. I just think he could be looked at there. I think we do have a problem at 12 to be honest, and given the amount of depth in the backrow it could be looked at.

I actually think if O'Brien was a New Zealander he'd be a centre, and if Ferris was too he'd be in the second row.

Gracelessly Tom

No. Just no.

shoutman

This is the type of thing you see at under 12's or J5 rugby. While he is a fantastic specimen of athlete he would not be a worldbeater at 12 as you would like to think.

The fact is he wouldn't have near good enough distribution, let alone the ability to kick the ball... TBH I don't even know why i'm discussing this, it's pretty much what Tom said above...

There is a reason why he plays six and you will never, ever, find him starting in a backline at top level rugby.

cgpg5

With no kicking game and distribution skills how on earth did you come to the conclusion that he could play 12?

Wollwead

shoutman wrote: »

This is the type of thing you see at under 12's or J5 rugby. While he is a fantastic specimen of athlete he would not be a worldbeater at 12 as you would like to think.

The fact is he wouldn't have near good enough distribution, let alone the ability to kick the ball... TBH I don't even know why i'm discussing this, it's pretty much what Tom said above...

There is a reason why he plays six and you will never, ever, find him starting in a backline at top level rugby.

Whilst I agree that he's best suited to 6 without a shadow of a doubt, I would also like to point out that i've seen him kicking the ball and a hell of a lot more convincingly than i've ever seen Darcy attempting to kick the ball.

Tim Robbins

Great post OP.

He came through youths. I wonder if he came through schools
would he have been a 12 like you suggest.

Fight_Night

I think that while people are right that yes, currently he probably couldn't transfer to 12 because he wouldn't have or have sufficient time to acquire the skills needed(primarily distribution). However I think the point the OP was trying to make was that had he come through an NZ youth setup he would have been a 12 and I don't think this is that unbelievable.

irishbucsfan

I'd be extremely upset if this happened, but thankfully it never will.

wrmwit

His strength and ball carrying abilities would be under-used as centre. They're his best traits so he's more useful in the ruck. However I'd rather see O'Brien as centre than D'Arcy, who has been away with the fairies the past few games.

I've read before that Sean Cronin can match the back line in terms of speed, maybe give him a chance at centre!

Leslie91

wrmwit wrote: »

His strength and ball carrying abilities would be under-used as centre. They're his best traits so he's more useful in the ruck. However I'd rather see O'Brien as centre than D'Arcy, who has been away with the fairies the past few games.

I've read before that Sean Cronin can match the back line in terms of speed, maybe give him a chance at centre!

You must be jokin!?.... hands of stone. God help us.

Sport101

Actually O'Brien kicked the ball once against France better than Darcy has every managed. But no.

Leslie91

Sport101 wrote: »

Actually O'Brien kicked the ball once against France better than Darcy has every managed. But no.

I was thinking that too and he probably played GAA no doubt. Having said that not sure he would have the 'quickness' for the position. He has the burst/power and straight line speed though. Ud wonder about the hands too in terms of distribution.

He'll be playing 7 in NZ anyway no doubt.

d'Oracle

Why are people obsessed with the idea of taking a player out of his strongest position.

LETS PUT HIM IN LOOSEHEAD.

thomond2006

I reckon he'd be a good hooker.

Regards,
Brent Pope.

mfceiling

I was working in carlow today and the spark on the job is a neighbour of his.
We were chatting and he told me SOB was a great footballer - played a bit of gaa and was a handy player.
12??....who knows!!

PhatPiggins

People need to lighten up. This is not a serious thread. Chuck him in 12 I say, it'll be worth it for the novelty factor alone.

Frankie Lee

He could do a job on the wing like Bergamasco if they were stuck I'd say.

tolosenc

Nice try, Mr. Kidney. Free WiFi on the flight?

wixfjord

He was indeed a great Gaelic footballer. Him and Brendan Murphy would be a great Carlow midfield partnership!

finatron

while i dont think he should be a 12 i do think he should be used like a 1st centrer at certain times like when there's a lineout inside the 22 . keep him out of ruck's and mauls so he can be given space to run with the ball maybe moving him to 8 if there's a scrum near the line

Conas

I can't understand some of the replies in this thread. To be a 12 he has to kick the ball well? Nonu couldn't kick snow off a rope. All players from 1 to 15 have to be able to distribute the ball well. If you rewind back the clock to 1995 I'm sure a lot of people would have said Lomu should be an 8 and ended up on the wing. No one will know if O'Brien can play 12 until he plays there (which probaly won't happen). Someone said whats the point in taking O'Brien out of his strongest position..what is his strongest position? :P Probaly wouldn't look out of position anywhere.

.ak

Personally I'd love to see him there... even for a test match with Leinster. It'll never happen tho...

BoarHunter

give him a go at scrum half he might have a decent box kick !

Gracelessly Tom

Frankie Lee wrote: »

He could do a job on the wing like Bergamasco if they were stuck I'd say.

Do you remember the game v England in the 6 nations when Italy threw him in at 9!! My god was that a bad call. At least on the wing he was out of harms way in many respects.

CIARAN_BOYLE

In New Zealand the underage teams are weight based rather than age based. This means that some of the big guys end up as backs and develop the skillset required. If he had grown up in New Zealand I wouldn't be surprised to see SOB as a back maybe a crash ball center or a physical winger.

However we live in Ireland where 90% of the big guys end up as forwards so SOB ended up as a forward. He is a back-row forward and a damn good one. If we wanted to give it a season playing him at 11, 12, 13 or 14 I am sure it would work eventually. That said he is a backrow player and a damn good one. It would probably take too long to teach him to play somewhere else.

Fight_Night

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

In New Zealand the underage teams are weight based rather than age based. This means that some of the big guys end up as backs and develop the skillset required. If he had grown up in New Zealand I wouldn't be surprised to see SOB as a back maybe a crash ball center or a physical winger.

However we live in Ireland where 90% of the big guys end up as forwards so SOB ended up as a forward. He is a back-row forward and a damn good one. If we wanted to give it a season playing him at 11, 12, 13 or 14 I am sure it would work eventually. That said he is a backrow player and a damn good one. It would probably take too long to teach him to play somewhere else.

I'm surprised we haven't adopted that 'classing players by weight not age' system yet. Seems much better.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Fight_Night wrote: »

I'm surprised we haven't adopted that 'classing players by weight not age' system yet. Seems much better.

Its not so much a big deal here as it is in NZ. Maori and other players of PI descent develop early and if you had them playing against New Zealanders from European descent you would have the Maori's destroying the players of European descent.

I don't think you get as much of a variance in weight in Ireland as you do in New Zealand. Its probably a good idea though.

Cpt_Blackbeard

BOD at 7 too! It will add another 2 years to his career sure.







...anyone??

ambid

SOB = our very own Shontayne Hape!

Exactly what we need!

I think the others are right though - maybe it would have worked when he was a young fella.

PhatPiggins

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

Do you remember the game v England in the 6 nations when Italy threw him in at 9!! My god was that a bad call. At least on the wing he was out of harms way in many respects.

That was insanity. I felt really sorry for the guy, he's such a warrior.

BarackPyjama

If Jonah Lomu is a winger, then SOB is a 12. Sure all Drico needs to do is find a bit of space for him and then use him like a battering ram, a la Jamie Roberts on the Lions tour. Only about 10 times more dangerous a ball carrier.

I wholeheartedly endorse this thread. SOB for 12.

Pudsy33

PhatPiggins wrote: »

That was insanity. I felt really sorry for the guy, he's such a warrior.

You guys are mixing up Bergamascos surely? Mirko, the winger, didn't play SH. Mauro, the flanker, did.

Edit: Just realised Mauro has played on the wing too, sorry lads.

Dr.Evil

I think it would be worth it, purely for the hilarity factor of watching him run into people on a more constant basis than he does now.

BarackPyjama

Dr.Evil wrote: »

I think it would be worth it, purely for the hilarity factor of watching him run into through people on a more constant basis than he does now.

Fixed that for you.

wonton

would love to see it tried against usa and if it worked then why not, but sure we know it wont happen.

Conas

Sure didn't he play hooker for Leinster for 10mins well Strauss was in the sin bin during last season? I do recall him throwing two balls into the lineout. He's Mr Versatile. But I wouldn't play him at fly half.

Oh here just play him at 12, and let the backrow be Ferris, Jennings, and Heaslip. I'd say he'd give that James O'Connor and awful smashing if he got a run at him. Drico and O'Brien v Smith and Nonu. What a showdown that would be.

CatFromHue

I think he'd struggle in defence with the faster guys. It would be relatively straight forward to create a defence system to counter him as let's be honest when he gets the ball there is only one thing he does. At the moment he is a roving player as he is in the back row and pops up randomly, if he were a 12 he would be fixed in a position for the majority of the game.

d'Oracle

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

In New Zealand the underage teams are weight based rather than age based. This means that some of the big guys end up as backs and develop the skillset required.

I heard that. I think the main benefit of adopting that here would be for player retention. I reckon everyone here remembers the big lad who played 8 as a kid and gave up when he stopped being able to run over other players in his teens.

I don't think they do that in England but end up with some pretty damn big backs. Just as an observation like.

cython

Conas wrote: »

Sure didn't he play hooker for Leinster for 10mins well Strauss was in the sin bin during last season? I do recall him throwing two balls into the lineout. He's Mr Versatile. But I wouldn't play him at fly half.

Oh here just play him at 12, and let the backrow be Ferris, Jennings, and Heaslip. I'd say he'd give that James O'Connor and awful smashing if he got a run at him. Drico and O'Brien v Smith and Nonu. What a showdown that would be.

Yes and no to the bolded. When Strauss was in the bin, SOB did certainly take the throws into the lineout, but he wouldn't be permitted to play in the front row in the scrums, so Healy came back on, and played hooker there. Both did well at the time, by all accounts. Bit of a strange symmetry in it all though, considering I seem to recall Strauss coming into the back row in one of the later matches last season too, due to injuries necessitating it at the time, IIRC.

yupyup7up

cgpg5 wrote: »

With no kicking game and distribution skills how on earth did you come to the conclusion that he could play 12?

Kicking at 12? D'Arcy is our 12 and if I ever seen him kick again I'd box him. Sexton should be a 12 for the territorial and running aspects

Monty Burnz

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Its not so much a big deal here as it is in NZ. Maori and other players of PI descent develop early and if you had them playing against New Zealanders from European descent you would have the Maori's destroying the players of European descent.

I don't think you get as much of a variance in weight in Ireland as you do in New Zealand. Its probably a good idea though.

When I was playing at school level I would have been say 8 stone as an U/14, tackling guys who were 14, 15 stone (second rows). There's a good bit of variation out there.

Having said that, I'd probably have spent my whole underage career playing with guys 2 or 3 years younger, thinking that I was a tank, rather than a small-for-my-age scooter.

.ak

It's that antiqued thinking that loses us games. According to the likes of Eddie O'Sullivan and Kidney the 12 is your second fly half. The game is no longer played in this manner. It's 2011. Bring on the big 12's that BURY people in defense and line break with ball in hand. Kicking is a rare option - that I've seen SOB do from time to time.

GerM

Monty Burnz wrote: »

When I was playing at school level I would have been say 8 stone as an U/14, tackling guys who were 14, 15 stone (second rows). There's a good bit of variation out there.

Having said that, I'd probably have spent my whole underage career playing with guys 2 or 3 years younger, thinking that I was a tank, rather than a small-for-my-age scooter.

Who on earth is 15 stone when they're 13 or 14 years old?! :eek: Ian Nagle was barely 15 stone a year or two ago and is still listed at that weight (incorrectly, I'm sure) on the Munster site. Same story with Donnacha Ryan when he was first on a Munster contract. Aside from some seriously fatty props, any players at that weight when that young would be nearly be non-existent.

I would agree with Ciarán.There isn't as much variance here in comparison to the Kiwis particularly at underage but it does carry through into the senior ranks. It's unusual for us to have a back that is bigger than about 96kg, The likes of Downey and Horgan are far outnumbered by the rest. Our second rows tend to be lighter than those from other countries. POC by his own admission struggles to keep his weight up and lost a lot when injured. Our hookers are never overly large and our looseheads are often quite small too. We tend to produce players that are naturally more slender. It's no coincidence that our two biggest players of the professional era were converted second rows that stood out amongst the rest of the squad.

CatFromHue

Wasn't David Wallace once tried out in the backs?

If I remember it didn't go very well and there was speculation at the time he would have to leave Munster!

Monty Burnz

GerM wrote: »

Who on earth is 15 stone when they're 13 or 14 years old?! :eek:

I could name names, but you're not going to have heard of them! They didn't play the game beyond school level. The two second rows in our U14 team were over 6 foot and broad with it. I didn't think it odd at the time - most teams seemed to have a couple of big guys like that.

Tim Robbins

Eric Miller played in the backs for a few mins of one world cup game.

JustinDee

.ak wrote: »

It's that antiqued thinking that loses us games. According to the likes of Eddie O'Sullivan and Kidney the 12 is your second fly half. The game is no longer played in this manner

Not true.
It is very common that the number 10/pivot/stand-off/call-it-what-you-will and inside-centre/second five-eighth switch. Usually it involves a simple switch for defensive reasons or if one has a better facet up his sleeve appropriate to what the team are doing next.
The deciding factor in using these tactics is if the team in question actually has the capability to do so, not that it is 'old hat' as you seem to think it is.

A2LUE42

PhatPiggins wrote: »

That was insanity. I felt really sorry for the guy, he's such a warrior.

Wrong brother. It was the Flanker they put in at 9, not the winger. But I have never seen a modern player so clearly out of position. It was an effort for him to not clear out the rucks, almost every time.

Gracelessly Tom

A2LUE42 wrote: »

Wrong brother. It was the Flanker they put in at 9, not the winger. But I have never seen a modern player so clearly out of position. It was an effort for him to not clear out the rucks, almost every time.

Nope, correct brother. We were both talking about Mauro (the flanker) who played 9 v England. He also played on the wing a few times for Italy. His brother Mirco is the recognised wing.

A2LUE42

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

Nope, correct brother. We were both talking about Mauro (the flanker) who played 9 v England. He also played on the wing a few times for Italy. His brother Mirco is the recognised wing.

My mistake then, I remember him playing Centre, but not on the wing.

Gracelessly Tom

A2LUE42 wrote: »

My mistake then, I remember him playing Centre, but not on the wing.

Is that not Mirco you're thinking of now? He played centre and wing for Italy. Don't think Mauro has ever played centre for Italy. He may pop up there from time to time in a game but he's never been selected there.