Bord Gais increase bills by 12% whilst spending 100k on chairs!!

listermint

mconigol wrote: »

I'm not going to defend it, why should I? I can see the benefits however.

My point was simply that the story wasn't based in fact and was designed to stir up peoples emotions and the rabble rabble brigade.

Why do people let themselves be manipulated so easily by the media?

Doesnt matter how the story is worded. Lets face it, the picture was taken by a randomer. We never get to hear this type of crass spending that occurs unless somebody exposes it.

All we hear is Tighten your belts, Raise taxes, Water Charges. Property Tax...
Are you that much of a tool to think that by government departments making major overalls and efficiencys we would make these savings elsewhere, rather than closing hospitals, increasing class sizes and cutting welfare.

It all comes out of the same pot. But no one is making any in roads anywhere. That sort of money would put nurses in jobs and keep wards open. But no we buy sets of chairs instead.


So yeah il continue to be p&ssed off about it.

My name is URL

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

I'm with seamus on this one - the costs quoted are way over estimated and the benefits under-appreciated.

Why do you think the costs are being over-estimated? The supplier has stated that it would cost ~€650 per chair when purchasing such an amount in bulk. As for the benefits being under appreciated, well that's debatable. Similarly beneficial chairs can be got for a much lower cost. The purchaser probably just Googled "best ergonomic office chair" and went with the first result.

MJ Flood this afternoon told TheJournal.ie that such a quantity of chairs could be supplied for around €650 each, excluding VAT at 21 per cent.

listermint

My name is URL wrote: »

Why do you think the costs are being over-estimated? The supplier has stated that it would cost ~€650 per chair when purchasing such an amount in bulk. As for the benefits being under appreciated, well that's debatable. Similarly beneficial chairs can be got for a much lower cost. The purchaser probably just Googled "best ergonomic office chair" and went with the first result.

This sound more about right, but chances are they paid a consultant to come in and google 'best office chair'

mconigol

listermint wrote: »

Doesnt matter how the story is worded. Lets face it, the picture was taken by a randomer. We never get to hear this type of crass spending that occurs unless somebody exposes it.

All we hear is Tighten your belts, Raise taxes, Water Charges. Property Tax...
Are you that much of a tool to think that by government departments making major overalls and efficiencys we would make these savings elsewhere, rather than closing hospitals, increasing class sizes and cutting welfare.

It all comes out of the same pot. But no one is making any in roads anywhere. That sort of money would put nurses in jobs and keep wards open. But no we buy sets of chairs instead.


So yeah il continue to be p&ssed off about it.

How much money has BG spent on office chairs and associated repairs/maintenance/replacements as well as medical treatment/increased insurance premiums for people suffering from ergonomic issues etc...

How do you know a cost/benefit analysis hasn't been done on this? A picture with a headline "This Will Tend To Make You Very Upset" isn't something I'm going to base my opinions on.

North_West_Art

you can get an almost identical chair for approx $50 if you order them direct from China.. see link here

that is the end of Bord Gas in our house, they did look convincing a couple of months ago when we signed up. How they can justify spending €900 on a chair, then go dipping into our bank accounts to fund it, we are being taken for fools

Mr. Presentable

My name is URL wrote: »

Why do you think the costs are being over-estimated? .

From the OP:

Outside the new Bord Gais offices at 1 Warrington Place. Workers unbox hundreds of new Herman Miller Aeron chairs (list price: $970 – $1250) and wheel them into the lobby.

2 weeks after increasing electricity prices by 12%.

The pile of boxes in the first pic are *all* empty Aeron boxes. The second pic is of the lobby, with about €100,000 of chairs waiting to be taken upstairs. Taken literally 70 mins ago.

And further posters refer the cost at €900/each. So it looks pretty evident the costs are being overestimated. Maybe not by you, but by the pitchfork shakers

Mr. Presentable

North_West_Art wrote: »

you can get an almost identical chair for approx $50 if you order them direct from China.. see link here

that is the end of Bord Gas in our house, they did look convincing a couple of months ago when we signed up. How they can justify spending €900 on a chair, then go dipping into our bank accounts to fund it, we are being taken for fools

Would you buy your iPad from China?

I'm not trying to justify what BG have spent here, but trying to point out how we are being manipulated to be outraged.

fatboypee

I personally find this quite hilarious.

I gave up a long long time ago expecting anything from the PS or Government here. I have been witness to an awful lot of wastage and horriffic overspending in the PS and this is simply just another example of the best of the best at the taxpayers expense.

IT WONT CHANGE UNLESS WE CHANGE IT!

Point of order here was the recent attempt by Shane Ross to be elected to the chair of the Public Accounts Committee only to have FG vote in an FF candidate instead.

Really, kind of says it all, doesn't it ?

listermint

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

From the OP:



And further posters refer the cost at €900/each. So it looks pretty evident the costs are being overestimated. Maybe not by you, but by the pitchfork shakers

Overestimated to the tune of 177K ?

In under estimated and threw in a 20% discount which is lucky because the most a semi state would get is 10% as everyone knows they are a gravy train..

So 177,000 Euro on office chairs to you is perfectly acceptable?

North_West_Art

a price list for Herman Miller chairs here: http://www.nextag.com/herman-miller-aeron-chair/compare-html

a list of very similar chairs made in China from $50 per chair here (the prices aren't given for the first couple): http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?SearchText=office+chair&Country=&IndexArea=product_en&fsb=y



*is there a possibility that Herman Miller chairs are made in China and sold through Germany? :eek:

listermint

mconigol wrote: »

How much money has BG spent on office chairs and associated repairs/maintenance/replacements as well as medical treatment/increased insurance premiums for people suffering from ergonomic issues etc...

How do you know a cost/benefit analysis hasn't been done on this? A picture with a headline "This Will Tend To Make You Very Upset" isn't something I'm going to base my opinions on.

Where are you pulling these issues from? Your 'hole' ? The chairs in our office are leather (pleather) they have all necessary ergonomic requirments and most if not all are 6 years old. bar some odd replacements. This is a large office with many staff. Chair cost ~ 200-300 Euro.

Have we ergonomic issues? has there been ergonomic insurance claims brought by anyone here ? NO and they spend they day writing code at their desks... Your making stuff up to support this lunacy.

Mr. Presentable

listermint wrote: »

Overestimated to the tune of 177K ?

In under estimated and threw in a 20% discount which is lucky because the most a semi state would get is 10% as everyone knows they are a gravy train..

So 177,000 Euro on office chairs to you is perfectly acceptable?

http://www.thejournal.ie/bord-gais-energy-office-chairs-herman-miller-aeron-warrington-place-furniture-chairs-213861-Aug2011/

Bord Gais Energy may have spent up to €300,000 on luxury office chairs

mconigol

listermint wrote: »

Where are you pulling these issues from? Your 'hole' ? The chairs in our office are leather (pleather) they have all necessary ergonomic requirments and most if not all are 6 years old. bar some odd replacements. This is a large office with many staff. Chair cost ~ 200-300 Euro.

Have we ergonomic issues? has there been ergonomic insurance claims brought by anyone here ? NO and they spend they day writing code at their desks... Your making stuff up to support this lunacy.

Why are you being so abrasive because I refuse to get worked up about this. Of course I'm not pulling these issues from my hole. They're well know and accepted issues in many businesses across the globe. I've worked in a very well know, large multinational company where ergonomics is taken very seriously, with regular checks and training.

You didn't answer my questions because you don't know the answers and would obviously prefer to jump to conclusions.

listermint

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/bord-gais-energy-office-chairs-herman-miller-aeron-warrington-place-furniture-chairs-213861-Aug2011/

Why are you quoting the Journal, Ive given you revised figures based on actual pricing and the volume that we know they purchased. You still havent said if you think spending +177,000 Euro on office chairs is acceptable?

Bear in mind this is revised right down to minimum estimate, And what of the other stuff we dont know about? Where there new ergonomic german superfly desks added to that too?

listermint

mconigol wrote: »

Why are you being so abrasive because I refuse to get worked up about this. Of course I'm not pulling these issues from my hole. They're well know and accepted issues in many businesses across the globe. I've worked in a very well know, large multinational company where ergonomics is taken very seriously, with regular checks and training.

You didn't answer my questions because you don't know the answers and would obviously prefer to jump to conclusions.

Enjoy your new chair Mc Onigol, Hears hoping the front door starts to swing around like it..

Koltashe

This is a load of B****
I was in arrears with them recently both Gas and Elec, called asking to help me out and set up some sort of payment plan, NO help what so ever, refused to talk to me untill I gave them my laser card number, and then told me tough luck nothing we can do for you, when are you paying the remainder off. All i was looking for is to stretch my debpt over next few bills so the services are not disconnected...
And now the bast**ds buying new lavish chairs and looking for compensation. They are simply taking the piss, the lot of their employees should be fired there are plenty people out there looking for work and won't be looking for compensation just because the office moved a few blocks. The new bloody chairs are their compensation, though they should be getting a kick up the arses not a soft comfy seat!

North_West_Art

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Would you buy your iPad from China?

I'm not trying to justify what BG have spent here, but trying to point out how we are being manipulated to be outraged.

ipads are made in China http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2011/04/25/the-ipad-is-made-in-china/

Dyr

They are very comfy chairs, I should know..I'm sitting on one :cool:

North_West_Art

North_West_Art wrote: »

a price list for Herman Miller chairs here: http://www.nextag.com/herman-miller-aeron-chair/compare-html

a list of very similar chairs made in China from $50 per chair here (the prices aren't given for the first couple): http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?SearchText=office+chair&Country=&IndexArea=product_en&fsb=y



*is there a possibility that Herman Miller chairs are made in China and sold through Germany? :eek:

bump

Dyr

listermint wrote: »

We have facts, The chairs where photographed, and they appeared on national TV,

I have visons of Vincent Browne interrogating an empty chair..

shaneybaby

mconigol wrote: »

How much money has BG spent on office chairs and associated repairs/maintenance/replacements as well as medical treatment/increased insurance premiums for people suffering from ergonomic issues etc...

How do you know a cost/benefit analysis hasn't been done on this? A picture with a headline "This Will Tend To Make You Very Upset" isn't something I'm going to base my opinions on.

I'm no pitchfork waver but these chairs are not ergonomic chairs and not designed for 8hour a day office use.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_19/b4177071221162_page_2.htm

“The basic Aeron, by Herman Miller, costs around $700, and many office workers swear by them. There are also researchers who doubt them. “The Aeron is far too low,” says Dr. A.C. Mandal, a Danish doctor who was among the first to raise flags about sitting 50 years ago. “I visited Herman Miller a few years ago, and they did understand. It should have much more height adjustment, and you should be able to move more. But as long as they sell enormous numbers, they don’t want to change it.” Don Chadwick, the co-designer of the Aeron, says he wasn’t hired to design the ideal product for an eight-hour-workday; he was hired to update Herman Miller’s previous best-seller”

listermint

shaneybaby wrote: »

I'm no pitchfork waver but these chairs are not ergonomic chairs and not designed for 8hour a day office use.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/10_19/b4177071221162_page_2.htm

“The basic Aeron, by Herman Miller, costs around $700, and many office workers swear by them. There are also researchers who doubt them. “The Aeron is far too low,” says Dr. A.C. Mandal, a Danish doctor who was among the first to raise flags about sitting 50 years ago. “I visited Herman Miller a few years ago, and they did understand. It should have much more height adjustment, and you should be able to move more. But as long as they sell enormous numbers, they don’t want to change it.” Don Chadwick, the co-designer of the Aeron, says he wasn’t hired to design the ideal product for an eight-hour-workday; he was hired to update Herman Miller’s previous best-seller”

Of course not, They were bought because they are expensive and sexy looking. Designed to entice the staff to move to another location, Sure lets give them all ipads so they can google maps themselves up the road.

Mr. Presentable

North_West_Art wrote: »

ipads are made in China http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2011/04/25/the-ipad-is-made-in-china/

Way to miss the point.........

North_West_Art

sorry, I don't understand.

BartM

Lads I spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and the seat I have was probably around €100 and guess what... I’m alive, healthy and my back is sound! There is no reasonable argument which would back the purchase of a designer (very expensive) chair for every person in the office - executives ok but every mickey mouse who works there doesn't have to have a chair like that... if they were looking for a black mesh chair they could buy one like that! It took me like 2 minutes to look it up, the price is a fracture of the ones that BG got and they would probably get a massive discount for such quantity. And for Christ sake wouldn't it be nice to support an Irish company instead! Ridiculous!

Temptamperu

Why is it ok for execs and not for the "mickey mouse" as you put it?

BlaasForRafa

BartM wrote: »

Lads I spend 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and the seat I have was probably around €100 and guess what... I’m alive, healthy and my back is sound! There is no reasonable argument which would back the purchase of a designer (very expensive) chair for every person in the office - executives ok but every mickey mouse who works there doesn't have to have a chair like that... if they were looking for a black mesh chair they could buy one like that! It took me like 2 minutes to look it up, the price is a fracture of the ones that BG got and they would probably get a massive discount for such quantity. And for Christ sake wouldn't it be nice to support an Irish company instead! Ridiculous!

I got one of these from Woodies a couple of years ago and it does the job very well. But I guess an €85 chair isn't good enough for cossetted semi-state workers.

TiGeR KiNgS

Temptamperu wrote: »

Why is it ok for execs and not for the "mickey mouse" as you put it?

because executives have the most stressful & powerful jobs in any company. There office & contents should be of a higher quality to reflect there position.

If you were going for an important meeting with an executive as a potential client would you want to be sitting on a bric-a-brac argos special offer surrounded by IKEA's finest ? of course not.


As for everyone else, F ck'em Argos special offers for all.

I'm not saying those chairs are worth the price even for exec's in a semi state though.

bnt

I had an Aeron chair at the company where I worked before. They are flipping expensive, but they are built like tanks, and last forever as long as they're maintained properly. They also have a decent resale value too i.e. it's not an entirely sunk cost.

Ulysses Gaze

Bambi wrote: »

I have visons of Vincent Browne interrogating an empty chair..

Well Vinnie has form interrogating empty things.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_XCJ62cJhAPU/TKYtRG75JqI/AAAAAAAAHcU/gkNn7nzY3Fc/Bertie%20Ahern%20Chews%20The%20Fat.gif