New to this business

Deep diver

Hi all,

I'm a electrican, and interested in getting involved in this business,
It seems very easy, and I have run coaxial cables, and installed digital aerials.
My question is :

1) where can I get more training, for both aerials and satellite free view.

I get a lot of customers asking me to install aerials, dishes, so I,ve decided to do It full time as my existing business is gone quite.

I see there is some sort of trade bodies (saorview site) should I join all three ?
but one is in england ?

any advise thanks.

darth_maul

Deep diver wrote: »

I'm a electrican,
It seems very easy,

any advise thanks.

Yeah we are just crying out for more electricians (correct spelling) in this business, all electricians seem to think that its very easy and that the same principles of laying and joining cables apply, that's why we have to come in after and try and fix the problems. This business is suffering badly at the moment from double jobbers and the standard of work in most cases is completely shocking, the fact that you started off by saying "it seems very easy" shows that you come from the same mindset of all the other electricians that are trying to make a bit of extra cash from Satellite and Aerials, If as you say you get alot of customers then stick to your electrical work. I recently was in a house where an electrician was working, he proceeded to tell me how easy it was and that he had installed loads of aerials, so I asked him what transmitter he pointed them at, he hadn't a clue where the local transmitters where and what channels were carried on them.

skippy2

in all fairness to deep diver he did ask

1) where can I get more training, for both aerials and satellite free view.

while i understand any concerns to cowboy installers I think it is only fair if someone wants to get training in a particular trade etc nothing wrong with that if the end result is a job done properly:)

St Senan

In Fairness to All here. The OP has two posts here is his first http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73932685&postcount=8
and less than 2 weeks later

I'm a electrican, and
It seems very easy, and I have run coaxial cables, and installed digital aerials

.

digital aerials

There is no such thing

satellite free view

There is no such thing.

Ronnie Raygun

Same guy posted on another thread about buying a meter 'to speed things up', no mention of doing a better job. I (not so politely) enquired as to how he had been getting along up to this point since he claimed to already be installing.

He then deleted his post & as I hadn't quoted him in my reply it looked as if I was laying into other posters on the thread who only wanted a meter for personal use.

realdanbreen

Deep diver wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm a electrican, and interested in getting involved in this business,
It seems very easy, and I have run coaxial cables, and installed digital aerials.
My question is :

1) where can I get more training, for both aerials and satellite free view.

I get a lot of customers asking me to install aerials, dishes, so I,ve decided to do It full time as my existing business is gone quite.

I see there is some sort of trade bodies (saorview site) should I join all three ?
but one is in england ?

any advise thanks.

Theres not a lot to it really.
If you take a look in youtube you will see how its done.

s_gr

realdanbreen wrote: »

Theres not a lot to it really.
If you take a look in youtube you will see how its done.

Well this about sums up people's perception of the business...."look in youtube you will see how its done"

Need i say anymore after this post. The sooner people like this are got out of the business the better....

FRIENDO

Deep diver wrote: »

Hi all,

I'm a electrican, and interested in getting involved in this business,
It seems very easy, and I have run coaxial cables, and installed digital aerials.
My question is :

1) where can I get more training, for both aerials and satellite free view.

I get a lot of customers asking me to install aerials, dishes, so I,ve decided to do It full time as my existing business is gone quite.

I see there is some sort of trade bodies (saorview site) should I join all three ?
but one is in england ?

any advise thanks.

Contact http://www.isaa.tv/ would be a good start

s_gr

FRIENDO wrote: »

Contact http://www.isaa.tv/ would be a good start

National Guild of master craftsmen might be better as they more establised and have inspections of previous work before you can join.

They also approved by saorview

realdanbreen

s_gr wrote: »

Well this about sums up people's perception of the business...."look in youtube you will see how its done"

Need i say anymore after this post. The sooner people like this are got out of the business the better....

Well its not exactly rocket science is it?
At the end of the day its about sorting out a TV signal,not a lot can go wrong,can it?

St Senan

realdanbreen wrote: »

,not a lot can go wrong,can it?

What happens if their is co channel interference. Or a masthead amp is required to up signal from 40db to 70db. Or the internal coax in a customers house is not properly shielded. Or the job is a chimney install with a lashing kit and cradle.

STB

realdanbreen wrote: »

Well its not exactly rocket science is it?
At the end of the day its about sorting out a TV signal,not a lot can go wrong,can it?

Tell that to the person whose house you burn down!

realdanbreen

scaller wrote: »

What happens if their is co channel interference. Or a masthead amp is required to up signal from 40db to 70db. Or the internal coax in a customers house is not properly shielded. Or the job is a chimney install with a lashing kit and cradle.

Wow! All that sounds very expensive!

realdanbreen

STB wrote: »

Tell that to the person whose house you burn down!

You are joking of course.
For my part I picked up a kit in Lidl, bought a bit of coax,read the instructions and was up and running in about an hour and a half.

St Senan

realdanbreen wrote: »

Wow! All that sounds very expensive!

You only get what you pay for.

Vince Cable

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

Same guy posted on another thread about buying a meter 'to speed things up', no mention of doing a better job. I (not so politely) enquired as to how he had been getting along up to this point since he claimed to already be installing.

He then deleted his post & as I hadn't quoted him in my reply it looked as if I was laying into other posters on the thread who only wanted a meter for personal use.

He didn't learn much in the meantime then, as he's come back with another post designed to antagonise & he's attracted more attention this time.

Nice to see that he didn't consider it necessary to buy a meter until he was inconvenienced himself. Must have been busy & couldn't afford to be climbing up & down all the time, think of all the good work he'd get through if he could go a bit quicker . . . :eek:

Deep diver

All,

I would like to thank most of you's for great information.

All I want is to try and get on in this business, and do things right. I'm sure a lot of you's started somewhere. So I got in touch with the guilds, but no training, and very little information, just ring back, got the impression only wanted my money, ?

Rang the CAI also in England, but they said I would have to go to the UK for training. ?

Also rang issa, and more helpful, and are doing training, and seemed to know what they where talking about, but not sure, as a little over my head.

I think this business is Interesting, with Freeview satellite, and saorsat, saorview, much is happening.

St Senan

Deep diver wrote: »

Freeview satellite, .

There is no such thing


I also spoke to the National Guilds and their managing director said that they wont be dealing with Electricians wanting to install Aerials and Dishes.

realdanbreen

scaller wrote: »

You only get what you pay for.

I suppose you right, how much do I owe you?
I presume theres a callout charge.

St Senan

realdanbreen wrote: »

I suppose you right, how much do I owe you?
I presume theres a callout charge.

Sorry I don't travel to Limerick but I do know Good Aerial riggers down there that carry Pl insurance and pay tax.

realdanbreen

scaller wrote: »

Sorry I don't travel to Limerick but I do know Good Aerial riggers down there that carry Pl insurance and pay tax.

Thanks for the offer and if I hear of any little old ladies or any fella that isn't very handy and needs a TV set up I'll give you a shout.

St Senan

realdanbreen wrote: »

Thanks for the offer and if I hear of any little old ladies or any fella that isn't very handy and needs a TV set up I'll give you a shout.

As I said I don't travel down your way. You should get in touch with your local legit installer/Aerial rigger.

danny004

As an electrician (with 20 years experience) I read the post with great interest and found the original poster a bit condescending and stupid talking about aerial and satellite installation being "a bit easy" . I also found insulting some comments like "I've spoken to the national guild and they wont deal with electricians" ,why not are electricians over qualified to install an aerial and the guilds prefer dealing with taxi drivers ,firemen and gardai on their time off. The reality is it takes four years training to be an electrician including department of education level 7 state exams and that's just to get you going in the big bad world ,I assume a two week course certified by some self regulating body where you pay your money for membership gets you up and running installing aerials and dishes and in fact how many of these installers who are "certified" have non certified employees installing aerials in their company name. I would wager the % of cowboy aerial installers is pretty high because lets face it anyone can have a go with little consequence (I know you'll all be shouting about Joe Blogs who caused a house to fall down because the aerial wasn't mounted correctly on the chimney).Bad reception is hardly in the same category as electrocuting someone. There is a skill to installing aerials but not much ,the instances quoted of ghosting ,mast amps etc is almost as bad as it gets for your average domestic installation. So tell the national guilds who wont deal with electricians that the brain surgeons they deal with on a regular basis would be to hard an act to follow anyway.

Gerry Wicklow

What about the other side of the story? I wonder just how many "aerial experts" will stick in the odd socket or two or wire an outside light in bellwire, which I recently came across. 'Sure it's easy to do...'

That said I do worry a bit when the OP says...

Deep diver wrote: »

Also rang issa, and more helpful, and are doing training, and seemed to know what they where talking about, but not sure, as a little over my head.

I think this business is Interesting, with Freeview satellite, and saorsat, saorview, much is happening.

If he can't grasp the basics by now, gawd help us. Then again he could be seriuosly taking the p**s "over his head"

St Senan

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

Then again he could be seriously taking the p**s "over his head"

+1

MrSneeg

yes, and all the houses built during the boom installed with inadequate coax,
in insufficient ammounts running to inaccesible locations,
terminated with lovely brushed aluminium isolated wallplates,
by im too qualified to look at an aerial electricians,

FRIENDO

Deep diver wrote: »

All,

I would like to thank most of you's for great information.

All I want is to try and get on in this business, and do things right. I'm sure a lot of you's started somewhere. So I got in touch with the guilds, but no training, and very little information, just ring back, got the impression only wanted my money, ?

Rang the CAI also in England, but they said I would have to go to the UK for training. ?

Also rang issa, and more helpful, and are doing training, and seemed to know what they where talking about, but not sure, as a little over my head.

I think this business is Interesting, with Freeview satellite, and saorsat, saorview, much is happening.

Good work, I think you are doing the right thing in contacting the above.
I think you would be best to join one of the above and do the training.
From reading your post the ISSA seem to be the most suitable for you.

Best of luck.

realdanbreen

Deep diver wrote: »

All,

I would like to thank most of you's for great information.

All I want is to try and get on in this business, and do things right. I'm sure a lot of you's started somewhere. So I got in touch with the guilds, but no training, and very little information, just ring back, got the impression only wanted my money, ?

Rang the CAI also in England, but they said I would have to go to the UK for training. ?

Also rang issa, and more helpful, and are doing training, and seemed to know what they where talking about, but not sure, as a little over my head.

I think this business is Interesting, with Freeview satellite, and saorsat, saorview, much is happening.

Two questions.
How long an apprenticeship would you need to serve?
How much money did the guilds want from you?

Ronnie Raygun

FRIENDO wrote: »

ISSA seem to be the most suitable for you.

That would be ISAA.

ted1

I see everyone brushed over the most relevant post...

STB

realdanbreen wrote: »

You are joking of course.
For my part I picked up a kit in Lidl, bought a bit of coax,read the instructions and was up and running in about an hour and a half.

I wasn't joking.

That you installed a LIDL kit it doesn't make you an expert. Infact if you were an expert you wouldn't have bought one of those things in the first instance. Believe you me aerial & sat installers make plenty of money going around the country replacing these "kits" anyhow.

Anyhow its another one of these armchair know it all DIY experts vs the aerial installers profession (of which I am neither) that descends into farce and will no doubt end up being locked.

FRIENDO

Ronnie Raygun wrote: »

That would be ISAA.

Thanks

realdanbreen

STB wrote: »

I wasn't joking.

That you installed a LIDL kit it doesn't make you an expert. Infact if you were an expert you wouldn't have bought one of those things in the first instance. Believe you me aerial & sat installers make plenty of money going around the country replacing these "kits" anyhow.

Anyhow its another one of these armchair know it all DIY experts vs the aerial installers profession (of which I am neither) that descends into farce and will no doubt end up being locked.

You mentioned 'aerial installers profession', how long an apprenticeship do you have to serve?
BTW, my Lidl dish is up for the last 6 years through storms the lot and working fine.

STB

realdanbreen wrote: »

You mentioned 'aerial installers profession', how long an apprenticeship do you have to serve?

BTW, my Lidl dish is up for the last 6 years through storms the lot and working fine.

Well Dan, whilst I did Comm Enginnering, I dont know, I am not an installer.

I do know the profession is not just about pointing dishes. I am sure there is plenty of stuff that you only pick up after a long time in the profession. There are genuine people that have chosen it as their full time work to pay the bills and have built up particular knowledge (local and technical) as distinct from the night merchants and opportunist cowboys who see Saorview as a window opportunity to try their hand and make quick cash because business is slow in their own chosen trade.

channelsurfer2

ok my take on this as an amatuer enthuasist ,who has installed an aerial last year as project for myself is that its not a simple job for the untrained.... I did a lot of research asked questions on here and then installed it myself on the gable end wall and 2 extra points..it took me 3 to 4 hours and its hard work.
if you dont know what you are doing and think its easy then your wrong so if you have no experience and no idea then go with someone who has been doing it years and is not doing it as a side job...

s_gr

MrSneeg wrote: »

yes, and all the houses built during the boom installed with inadequate coax,
in insufficient ammounts running to inaccesible locations,
terminated with lovely brushed aluminium isolated wallplates,
by im too qualified to look at an aerial electricians,

This is so true.... my experience is that some electricians would need to spend another 4 years training..... as some of them are clueless.....

St Senan

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

ok my take on this as an amatuer enthuasist ,who has installed an aerial last year as project for myself is that its not a simple job for the untrained.... I did a lot of research asked questions on here and then installed it myself on the gable end wall and 2 extra points..it took me 3 to 4 hours and its hard work.
if you dont know what you are doing and think its easy then your wrong so if you have no experience and no idea then go with someone who has been doing it years and is not doing it as a side job...

Well said. A decent an honest poster.

realdanbreen

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

ok my take on this as an amatuer enthuasist ,who has installed an aerial last year as project for myself is that its not a simple job for the untrained.... I did a lot of research asked questions on here and then installed it myself on the gable end wall and 2 extra points..it took me 3 to 4 hours and its hard work.
if you dont know what you are doing and think its easy then your wrong so if you have no experience and no idea then go with someone who has been doing it years and is not doing it as a side job...

The OP is a qualified electrician!

FRIENDO

realdanbreen wrote: »

You mentioned 'aerial installers profession', how long an apprenticeship do you have to serve?
BTW, my Lidl dish is up for the last 6 years through storms the lot and working fine.

I believe you already know the answer to this question.

I have respect for all good honest aerial and satellite installers and even more respect for the installers who join one of the 3 recognised organisations.

Providing a good service to the customer, complying with health and safety and bussiness regulation, is very different to just sticking up a Lidl dish in your own home.

realdanbreen

FRIENDO wrote: »

I believe you already know the answer to this question.

I have respect for all good honest aerial and satellite installers and even more respect for the installers who join one of the 3 recognised organisations.

Providing a good service to the customer, complying with health and safety and bussiness regulation, is very different to just sticking up a Lidl dish in your own home.

These 'recognised organisations' that you speak of are similar to auctioneering or taxi organisations and carry no legislative or legal weight whatsoever.The main topic on an agenda at one of their meetings would be figuring out how much to charge for membership.

MrSneeg

realdanbreen wrote: »

These 'recognised organisations' that you speak of are similar to auctioneering or taxi organisations and carry no legislative or legal weight whatsoever.The main topic on an agenda at one of their meetings would be figuring out how much to charge for membership.

its a start, it took RECI 35 years to sort themselves out

from the RECI website http://www.reci.ie/

"In 1974 the ETCI set up a Technical Committee to look at the question of a roll of approved electrical contractors and an electrical inspectorate to ensure that electrical installation work conformed to the wiring rules. However the Dept. of Industry and Commerce ruled that the setting up of a roll of approved electrical contractors was a matter for self-regulation within the industry and not one for ETCI."

"The implementation of the new regulatory system based on the CER Criteria Document (Cer/08/071) commenced on 5th January 2009 and is in place since. "

realdanbreen

MrSneeg wrote: »

its a start, it took RECI 35 years to sort themselves out

from the RECI website http://www.reci.ie/

"In 1974 the ETCI set up a Technical Committee to look at the question of a roll of approved electrical contractors and an electrical inspectorate to ensure that electrical installation work conformed to the wiring rules. However the Dept. of Industry and Commerce ruled that the setting up of a roll of approved electrical contractors was a matter for self-regulation within the industry and not one for ETCI."

"The implementation of the new regulatory system based on the CER Criteria Document (Cer/08/071) commenced on 5th January 2009 and is in place since. "

And it took 40 years to dismantle the closed shop/fiefdom that the taxi organisation had set up, where you had to be an 'anointed one' to be given the opportunity to fork out 80k for a taxi plate.

channelsurfer2

realdanbreen wrote: »

The OP is a qualified electrician!

And???? just because you are a qualified electrician dosent mean you can install aerials or satellite dishes...

Vince Cable

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

And???? just because you are a qualified electrician dosent mean you can install aerials or satellite dishes...

It won't take him ages to run cables, though & he should be used to working at heights etc.

In a decent reception area, it shouldn't be hard for anyone with experience of the physical work & using test equipment to at least produce an installation that works & at an economical cost.

realdanbreen

channelsurfer2 wrote: »

And???? just because you are a qualified electrician dosent mean you can install aerials or satellite dishes...

The most complicated part of the whole system was launching the satellite into space,and thats alresdy been done.

ISAA

realdanbreen wrote: »

These 'recognised organisations' that you speak of are similar to auctioneering or taxi organisations and carry no legislative or legal weight whatsoever.The main topic on an agenda at one of their meetings would be figuring out how much to charge for membership.

We all had to start somewhere, and with RTE's help we and the other Associations are trying to sort this business out.

As it's one of the few professions which is not regulated.

And in relation to meetings about fee's, do you think Associations run on hot air.

This is a hard sell to installers, who find it hard with so may rogue installers out there, but at least there is some forward movement in the right direction, to help the public have installers that are all above board : i.e. Pl, trained, tools, etc.

In relation to deep diver, at least he is trying to get things done the right way, not like so many rogue installers, with no tech experience at all, at least he is has some formal training with his electrical back ground.

realdanbreen

ISAA wrote: »

We all had to start somewhere, and with RTE's help we and the other Associations are trying to sort this business out.

As it's one of the few professions which is not regulated.

And in relation to meetings about fee's, do you think Associations run on hot air.

This is a hard sell to installers, who find it hard with so may rogue installers out there, but at least there is some forward movement in the right direction, to help the public have installers that are all above board : i.e. Pl, trained, tools, etc.

In relation to deep diver, at least he is trying to get things done the right way, not like so many rogue installers, with no tech experience at all, at least he is has some formal training with his electrical back ground.

Thats fair enough and you sound well meaning.
My only concern with associations,guilds,organisations whatever is that when they are up and running they become a monopoly/cartel and before you know where you are the ordinary guy who is well capable of doing his own installation for himself finds he has to go through the monopoly/cartel to get the parts that he needs. Its happened with most industries in the past and I would expect the same to happen here.

ISAA

realdanbreen wrote: »

Thats fair enough and you sound well meaning.
My only concern with associations,guilds,organisations whatever is that when they are up and running they become a monopoly/cartel and before you know where you are the ordinary guy who is well capable of doing his own installation for himself finds he has to go through the monopoly/cartel to get the parts that he needs. Its happened with most industries in the past and I would expect the same to happen here.

Very wrong, The ISAA is run by installers, who are out on the road, doing day to day installs. This will never be a cartel.
We have tvtrade.ie on our site, so the ordinary guy can still do his own install, but also contact an installer if they wish.

desaparecidos

I always find these threads funny.

"Professional" installers belittling amateurs / electricians / cowboys who in turn belittle those in the trade.

cast_iron

desaparecidos wrote: »

I always find these threads funny.

"Professional" installers belittling amateurs / electricians / cowboys who in turn belittle those in the trade.

Classic protectionism. Human nature I suppose.

The simple fact is the OP can go out and start doing installations tomorrow if he likes.
Good to see he is looking to learn something off probably the only body that can teach him, in fairness.
It's dismaying to see people to attack him for previous comments when he now appears to want to go the right way. That's stinks quite frankly.

Whilst a basic install can be quite straightforward, what happens when the "new" installer hits ghosting / overloading / co-channel interference / trouble shooting of problems that make no sense (it happens!).
Does he just walk away? What can he do? Making money will be quite difficult in such circumstances. Experience does really count for alot in such situations.

Vince Cable

cast_iron wrote: »

It's dismaying to see people to attack him for previous comments when he now appears to want to go the right way.

Some of us did overreact, it's true. I suspect an electrician armed with a bit of know-how & the right test equipment would make a better installer than someone starting from scratch.