Disappointment with Ennis UDC

Seasoft

As a regular visitor to Clare and Ennis, I've always felt Ennis UDC were way ahead of most authorities when it came to pedestrian priority crossings. Imagine my disappointment to discover that the pedestrain crossings at the junction of O'Connell, Parnell and Abbey Streets have been painted over. They've been replaced by "Look Left" and "Look Right" painted on the roads. I saw people scurrying between cars, especially the elderly and families with young kids.
I wondeer why the UDC took this retrograde step?

Old image:

http://maps.google.ie/maps?q=Ennis,+Clare&hl=en&ll=52.84435,-8.982995&spn=0.000002,0.002411&sll=36.587843,-4.531168&sspn=0.000607,0.001206&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=52.84435,-8.982995&panoid=57hmpP26gvu-TftjjgB7wA&cbp=12,1.4,,0,29.69

And what is there now:

ger664

Its most likely that these crossing points are too close to junctions to make them official pedestrian crossing, thus the removal of the such.

As from pic how can that driver see if someone had stepped on the crossing beside the litter bin ?

Clareman

I was under the impression that they were told to remove the crossing areas because they were so close together, on speed bumps, just around corners as well as hidden, I thought that because of the drop in traffic around town because of the by-pass and natural traffic calming messures that they were deemed unnecessary

CptSternn

They should pedestrianise O'Connell street permanently. Problem solved.

Clareman

Abbey Street & O'Connell St. should be pedestrianised, I've been saying it for years

Niall_G

If I remember rightly they were removed because they were causing confusion. As unsignalled crossings, they did not provide right of way to pedestrians, but that's not what all pedestrians thought!

dr.fuzzenstein

Clareman wrote: »

Abbey Street & O'Connell St. should be pedestrianised, I've been saying it for years

Amen to that!
I actually spoke to a trader on O'Connel Street, the topic came to pedestrianization, she was absolutely, dead against it.
Her argument was that all traders would go bust, no one would go shopping in Ennis anymore and this has been proven in any international study ever done.
So a lot of fear and ignorance there. But it could only be a good thing, Ennis could do with a boost.

CptSternn

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Amen to that!
I actually spoke to a trader on O'Connel Street, the topic came to pedestrianization, she was absolutely, dead against it.
Her argument was that all traders would go bust, no one would go shopping in Ennis anymore and this has been proven in any international study ever done.
So a lot of fear and ignorance there. But it could only be a good thing, Ennis could do with a boost.

Thats the same thing they said two years ago when they tried doing it for a few weekends.

They stopped it then as well and since then what? 70+ businesses have closed in town.

Have they never seen the pedestrianized areas in Limerick and Dublin? They do great business. I for one have never, ever parked on O'Connell or Abbey street. What are there? Like ten parking spots? Are the businesses really going to go under if they eliminate ten parking spots? It's not like there aren't two multi-storey car parks within a two minute walk. It's sheer non-sense, and another reason businesses will continue to go under sure.

Maybe if we are lucky all the eejits who are fighting pedestrianization will go under and be replaced by businesses with half a brain.

ger664

I was in Galway on Sunday and shop street , Quay street where absolutely buzzing with foot traffic.

johnam

I totally agree with Pedestrianising Ennis, it can only be a good thing. However, a bit of thought needs to be put into it. Last year (maybe 2 years ago) when they tested it, the streets seemed quieter. There was probably the same if not more people around, but with the added space (especially along the wider sections) the streets seemed empty. There was no thought put into trying to create a welcoming atmosphere in the town, just remove the cars and hope it works. This didn't work, and instead of trying a few solutions the town council abandoned the scheme altogether.

Something like the farmers market would add a nice bit of atmosphere along this section (perhaps in the square, and the top of O'Connell street as far as Cassidys Pharmacy). By "Farmers Market", I mean the home produced products, or direct from farm fruit/veg etc, not the lads selling ducks, chickens, clothes, or half price detergents. Ennis has put a lot of effort into building a reputation for high quality boutiques, and I think we should try put that kind of effort into building a space for a high quality market.

Additional seating should be placed outside Brogans Pub, (that area of the street is a sun trap on a nice day).

People seemed to enjoy the new found space of the Pedestrianised streets last time, but used this space to allow them to get in and out of the shops faster, avoiding the usual window shopping that is forced upon them by having to use the narrow footpaths. Something like the market, and seating areas would allow people to slow down and enjoy the atmosphere of the pedestrianised town centre, and still create a safe car free area for shoppers.


In relation to the Pedestrian Crossings being removed, the whole of Abbey Street / O'Connell street is designated as "Pedestrian Priority" which I always took to mean that pedestrians had the right to cross anywhere, not just at the lined out areas, or on the ramps..... am I wrong?

Johnboy1951

In relation to the Pedestrian Crossings being removed, the whole of Abbey Street / O'Connell street is designated as "Pedestrian Priority" which I always took to mean that pedestrians had the right to cross anywhere, not just at the lined out areas, or on the ramps..... am I wrong?

How is this indicated to drivers? ..... I don't often drive through Ennis ...

ger664

johnam wrote: »

In relation to the Pedestrian Crossings being removed, the whole of Abbey Street / O'Connell street is designated as "Pedestrian Priority" which I always took to mean that pedestrians had the right to cross anywhere, not just at the lined out areas, or on the ramps..... am I wrong?

I have never heard of this.

Under the rules of the road. You must always yield to pedestrians already crossing at a junction. This probably applies whether its a junction or not. It does not give a pedestrian right of way to walk out in front of you as they must also yield to vehicular traffic already on the road/junction except in the case signalled and marked crossings.

johnam

There is a sign on the left hand side of abbey street opposite "Enzos" stating that the area is "pedestrian priority" Not sure what legal standing it has, but the sign is definitely there.


Edit: I drove past it on my way home from work last night, the sign has been turned 90 degrees from where it should be, so it is now facing Enzos, and says Pedestrian Priority Zone - Ramps Ahead

Shapey Fiend

Pedestrianisation would have an impact. One street is enough. It works in Dublin because you have the footfall.

Closing the main streets during festivals or the odd Saturday is enough. Sure outside of that can't you wait 3 seconds and cross when a car passes.

The traders are all against it. I'm going to trust their opinion on the matter more than the publics. Let's stick with what they want. They're getting hammered on rates and increased parking charges as it is.

Lots of people are lazy. If you make it too hard to get into the town center by car they won't bother and we'll end up with a donut effect like Limerick with everybody in a mall with chain shops and no independents.

dr.fuzzenstein

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

Pedestrianisation would have an impact. One street is enough. It works in Dublin because you have the footfall.

Closing the main streets during festivals or the odd Saturday is enough. Sure outside of that can't you wait 3 seconds and cross when a car passes.

The traders are all against it. I'm going to trust their opinion on the matter more than the publics. Let's stick with what they want. They're getting hammered on rates and increased parking charges as it is.

Lots of people are lazy. If you make it too hard to get into the town center by car they won't bother and we'll end up with a donut effect like Limerick with everybody in a mall with chain shops and no independents.

It's the whole planning of the place.
The idea seems to be "let's take shops, pubs, sports pitches, supermarkets, churches, car parking, housing, roads, farmers markets, schools and everything else and throw it in a huge heap with absolutely no planning whatsoever"
Ennis for that reason is in mostly absolute chaos, pedestrianization would be a start and any well-planned town (i.e. not one that was planned like a bowl of spaghetti that has ended up on the floor and got trodden on), would have moved the main shopping centers and sports pitches slightly off center.
That way the town center would be for hanging out, eating out, going out and getting trinkets and ice cream.
It would be relaxing. Right now Ennis is about as relaxing as a demolition derby.
And around the town would be for grocery shopping, filling the car up, etc..
It has to be said that to turn Ennis into a properly functioning town would cost to much in the current economic climate, so it won't probably happen.
The only thing missing right now is a petrol station on O'Connel Square.
Then at last we'll have absolutely everything in a heap.

CptSternn

Shapey Fiend wrote: »

Pedestrianisation would have an impact. One street is enough. It works in Dublin because you have the footfall.

What about Limerick, Galway, and Cork then?

Closing the main streets during festivals or the odd Saturday is enough. Sure outside of that can't you wait 3 seconds and cross when a car passes.

I never shop in Ennis because of the horrible street situation. Bringing a buggy through town is next to imposslbe if there are more than a handful of people out. I have mates in wheelchairs who feel the same way, as do many OAPs. It's easier for them to order online these days, which is why places like Tesco that offer online shopping are cleaning up.

This isn't about you. You have to take into account the fact a large chunk of people here in town have issues outside of traffic crossing, which I might add is another hugh issue for the same groups since the lack of proper crosswalks in town leads to issues for them as well.

The traders are all against it. I'm going to trust their opinion on the matter more than the publics. Let's stick with what they want. They're getting hammered on rates and increased parking charges as it is.

That is quite possibly the worst reason I have ever heard to support anything. Support a business because they think something is right? Wer have a whole thread here on how the customer service skills of most businesses in Clare and throughout the country are so bad they actually make people want to shop elsewhere. Letting businesses who had to pay to get a lesson recently telling them they need to smile more decide what is best for the town seems a bit daft to me sure.

Lots of people are lazy. If you make it too hard to get into the town center by car they won't bother and we'll end up with a donut effect like Limerick with everybody in a mall with chain shops and no independents.

Limerick built multiple shopping areas outside of the town centre. Thats a totally different argument. Where exactly do you think they will go outside of Ennis? Are you really suggesting that the ten parking spots on Abbey/O'Connell bring in enough traffic to sustain business? There are two car parks within two minutes walk and two multi-storeys as well. Are you saying people are so lazy they won't use the carparks? The fact these car parks are filled daily contradicts your statement.

Nevermind_

CptSternn wrote: »

What about Limerick, Galway, and Cork then?



I never shop in Ennis because of the horrible street situation. Bringing a buggy through town is next to imposslbe if there are more than a handful of people out. I have mates in wheelchairs who feel the same way, as do many OAPs. It's easier for them to order online these days, which is why places like Tesco that offer online shopping are cleaning up.

This isn't about you. You have to take into account the fact a large chunk of people here in town have issues outside of traffic crossing, which I might add is another hugh issue for the same groups since the lack of proper crosswalks in town leads to issues for them as well.



That is quite possibly the worst reason I have ever heard to support anything. Support a business because they think something is right? Wer have a whole thread here on how the customer service skills of most businesses in Clare and throughout the country are so bad they actually make people want to shop elsewhere. Letting businesses who had to pay to get a lesson recently telling them they need to smile more decide what is best for the town seems a bit daft to me sure.



Limerick built multiple shopping areas outside of the town centre. Thats a totally different argument. Where exactly do you think they will go outside of Ennis? Are you really suggesting that the ten parking spots on Abbey/O'Connell bring in enough traffic to sustain business? There are two car parks within two minutes walk and two multi-storeys as well. Are you saying people are so lazy they won't use the carparks? The fact these car parks are filled daily contradicts your statement.

Can you point to any example of a SIMILAR sized town anywhere that has benefited from pedestrianising its main streets? And i dont mean galway or limerick which are cities. I've been trying to find one but have found it hard to find a comparable urban area.

The traders opinion is just as valid if not more so than yours they have a vested interest and an incentive for the town to be busy and vibrant, their livelihoods depend on it. They also deserve to be heard because of the exorbitant rates they are saddled with, something you or I don't pay.

Also wtf has customer service got to do pedestrianisation?

I think the town could benefit from it on the busier saturdays for limited hours and around xmas but full time pedestrianisation is just not going to help anything.

Ennis is a medium sized regional town, o connell is not shop st or cruises st.

CptSternn

Nevermind_ wrote: »

Can you point to any example of a SIMILAR sized town anywhere that has benefited from pedestrianising its main streets? And i dont mean galway or limerick which are cities. I've been trying to find one but have found it hard to find a comparable urban area.

Both are fine examples. Both of their centres are almost the same from a proportional perspective, but that is not the issue here. If you are looking for a exact size town that has tried it, you are looking at the issue from the wrong standpoint. You don't need a perfect match example to prove a point. Using your own flawed logic, can you show me a town that is equal in all ways to Ennis who pedastrianised a shopping area and it didn't work?

You have to look at places it did work and why it works. You can't hope to find some magic place where all things are identical and you can use as a template. If thats what businesses are looking for, then expect more shops in town to close sure.

The traders opinion is just as valid if not more so than yours they have a vested interest and an incentive for the town to be busy and vibrant, their livelihoods depend on it. They also deserve to be heard because of the exorbitant rates they are saddled with, something you or I don't pay.

Apples and oranges. Traders are getting screwed on the rates and upwards only rent schemes. This has been discussed in detail in multiple threads. It has no bearing on this argument. Because the council is screwing them they have the right to fight against what their customers want? What sense does that make?

If a new local say Chinese opened in town and didn't offer take away and when asked why their answer was 'because rates are too high', you would wonder about them. Trying to use the high rates as a reason to rally against the publics wishes is a strawman argument.

Also wtf has customer service got to do pedestrianisation?

The customer is always right. Businesses who forget this end up under the hammer.

I think the town could benefit from it on the busier saturdays for limited hours and around xmas but full time pedestrianisation is just not going to help anything.

My son is in playschool here. Prior to this he was in a couple different toddler groups. I spent many, many hours talking with parents around Ennis in these groups about how much they hated, HATED, shopping in Ennis as it is so hard to get a buggy down the street. It is made worse when you have a couple of children trying to fight your way down narrow footpaths with people pushing past, especially in inclimate weather. I also have friends who have disabilities and are in wheel chairs. I personally have taken them around town. It is a nightmare for them even with someone else there to help, especially when it's even slightly bad out. The same goes for older people who don't move as fast and use walking aids.

Who do you think buys more in town? Young able bodied persons without kids or families and the elderly? Which group consists of a much larger base? Which group spends more on average weekly buying basic necessities?

The current layout stifles the largest groups of consumers in the area. Ignoring this with a 'stay the course' attitude only means they will continue to find alternate means to buy what they need elsewhere. I know my family did, and as long as the conditions there stay the way they are, we will continue.

I am not alone as I know literally dozens of other parents who feel the same. We find it easier to shop online or just go to Limerick once a month for things we need. I would love to pop into town, I only live a short walk away, but I don't because of the hassle it entails.

If you don't have kids or have elderly family members to worry about, then you probably have no frame of reference here. Or maybe you do and you were around in a time where there were no alternatives and soldiered through anyway. These days though there are many alternatives and if the local traders don't cop on the little business that is left here will dissipate as well.

The ages of the tourists that come through are getting older too. Ever watch them get off the CIE buses? Those are people who won't be straying too far from the bus or hotel due to the layout sure.

Ennis is a medium sized regional town, o connell is not shop st or cruises st.

Again, apples and oranges. Do you really think people just driving through town on Abbey/O'Connell are randomly stopping and shopping here? Your comment sounds like random tourists are passing through and just stopping to buy things they see from the car. Nothing could be further from the truth. Ennis has a bypass. People who shop here choose to do so. O'Connell street isn't just some group of shops in the middle of nowhere than the CIE buses pass by.

People who come here to shop don't turn around and leave if they don't get one of the eight or so parking spots on those streets. Thats what the argument boils down to. Some people are saying that if the streets were pedestrianised, it would somehow hinder people getting to town and parking in one of less than a dozen spots in town, when there are multiple parking areas that are filled daily and offer ample parking just a few minutes walk away.

We are not a town that makes money when tourist drive by on their way to places around the country, we are the capital of the county. If they started to act like it instead of bending to the will of a select few you would see maybe we would be able to reach the levels of those like Shop street.

One thing is for sure, unless people try something different and make some changes we won't even be a town any more. At the current rate we might end up being a small village.

dr.fuzzenstein

I was once in Clare Co Co doing a job and on one of the desks was a plan that showed Parnell Square pedestrianized, with seating and flowerpots and the like.
I thought it would be brilliant!
And move the farmer's market into the car park where Kostelloe's barber is while we're at it.
Tie all that in with the river walk and you have yourself a nice little town.
I'd drive in, park my car in one of the many car parks available, be it overground or multi-storey, go for a stroll around town and check out the many shops and cafes, maybe buy a snack and a paper and sit down a little.
There may even be street cafes, more festivals and the likes.
A small town like Ennis should not have cars on Parnell Street (already done), O'Connel Street, Abbey Street and Bank Place.
This plan would not impact parking on a large scale and quite frankly, whoever trader is against that has got to have other reasons, grudge against the town, just being plain awkward or just daft.
Just remember, if the town council proposed to build a fountain that spews money, people would still object, some people ALWAYS object, because that's what they do because they're bored, want attention or it's their hobby.
If the majority of people is behind this, this should be done and the rest will just have to get with the program.
I've been to many villages in France and Germany and the town center is always pedestrianized or cars only have access for people who live there or have business there.
I'd suggest anyone who disagrees to get themselves abroad and look around, you will see many charming little towns.
Again, there is no reason on earth Ennis town center should be a main road, it's just daft.

Johnboy1951

@CptSternn
while I appreciate your points about wheelchair users and access, I would point out that there are far more elderly and others who have difficulty walking any distance which pedestrianisation would impose upon.

I guess I would fall into such a category.

I have never been on Parnell street since it was closed to cars ... except the wee bit I can drive on.
Likewise with other cities I have visited in Ireland closed to vehicular traffic.

Now if they were to pedestrianise areas, AND supply the means, for those with a problem walking distances, to use an electric scooter or such, I might be in favour of it.

As it is, closing any area to through traffic, where I can be dropped near my destination, or park, means I will never go there.

I see no point in essentially preventing a large section of the buying public from access to shopping areas .... which is what pedestrianisation does unless some form of assistance is provided -- like electric scooter etc.

regards.

Shapey Fiend

Limerick only has a couple of pedestrianised streets. Cork only has a couple as well. There's no need to go overboard on it. One for a place the size of Ennis is enough. The traders have complained that business was down during the pilot pedestrianisation scheme and maybe it's just because business is on a downward slide at the moment but maybe not. We're at a point in time now where a lot of the independents are struggling so experimentation is risky.

I'm not obsessed with my car I walk everywhere around town so it's not self interest here. I wouldn't go modeling your town after a place in France either. My experience towns of equivalent size in France (and confirmed by a French person I know who moved here) is they were like ghost towns.

ger664

Lets look at this another way. The cresent shopping center or any other shopping center proves that pedestrianised streets would work.

What would be the effect on footfall in these centers if the owners allowed traffic to flow and park inside the malls and had limited/restriced parking outside where people where been charged a premium to use the facility.

Poxyshamrock

ger664 wrote: »

Lets look at this another way. The cresent shopping center or any other shopping center proves that pedestrianised streets would work.

What would be the effect on footfall in these centers if the owners allowed traffic to flow and park inside the malls and had limited/restriced parking outside where people where been charged a premium to use the facility.

Not at all! The Crescent is a Shopping Centre and cannot be compared to a pedestrian street in a city or town! The reason the Crescent works is due to its free car parking, its roof, its shops and its location in a suburb with over 20000 people.

ger664

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Not at all! The Crescent is a Shopping Centre and cannot be compared to a pedestrian street in a city or town! The reason the Crescent works is due to its free car parking, its roof, its shops and its location in a suburb with over 20000 people.

With the exception of the roof, Ennis is able to provide the rest, its just some vested interests dont want to do it.

Nevermind_

ger664 wrote: »

With the exception of the roof, Ennis is able to provide the rest, its just some vested interests dont want to do it.

Yes of course a town with narrow winding streets which evolved around an abbey on an island in the 13th century is the exact same as a planned purpose built 20th century shopping centre on the edge of a city.... ffs:rolleyes:

@captsternn I said a SIMILAR sized town with a population hinterland, I NEVER said "EXACT" as you quoted back to me.
Town planning is an area where lots of empirical research is conducted there must be detailed studies somewhere on the dynamics determining how pedestianisation works or when it does'nt and why. I would prefer to see this sort of evidence than your anecdotal "evidence" of talking to people which is from a scientific point of view worthless.

As I said before I'm not against pedestrianisation per se, it definitely has its advantages but it is not some sort of panacea and can also have disadvantages.

I really don't see the point of it on a freezing cold Tuesday in November or January when there probably isn't 20 people on the main streets of Ennis.

skerry

ger664 wrote: »

Its most likely that these crossing points are too close to junctions to make them official pedestrian crossing, thus the removal of the such.

As from pic how can that driver see if someone had stepped on the crossing beside the litter bin ?

They could have at least notified people of the change, the crossing just disappeared one day without notice. Also if its because the crossing is too close to the junction could someone please tell me which genius in the Ennis UDC thought it would be a great idea to put this crossing ( http://g.co/maps/3xufs ) over by the hospital so close to a roundabout on a blind corner. Gotta be the most dangerous pedestrian crossing in town for both pedestrians and drivers. That whole roundabout is a joke.

ger664

Nevermind_ wrote: »

Yes of course a town with narrow winding streets which evolved around an abbey on an island in the 13th century is the exact same as a planned purpose built 20th century shopping centre on the edge of a city.... ffs:rolleyes:

This is the point of the arguement. Making the streets traffic free as the town currently stands is a useless excercise and will never work until such time as their is amble free parking with quick and easy access in and out of this. This requires business owners and the UDC having to make scarifices in the short term for a gain long term.

There is no way the UDC is going to provide free parking in Ennis let alone invest heavily in creating a managable traffic flow for the town by completely modernising the flow and layout of the town. Look how long its taking to build the much needed inner relief road. Its was planned years ago and it still is not complete.

If the investment was made in modernising the town it will benefit future generations, as it stands Ennis like many other large towns will be become wastelands and just places where people live.

skerry wrote: »

They could have at least notified people of the change, the crossing just disappeared one day without notice. Also if its because the crossing is too close to the junction could someone please tell me which genius in the Ennis UDC thought it would be a great idea to put this crossing ( http://g.co/maps/3xufs ) over by the hospital so close to a roundabout on a blind corner. Gotta be the most dangerous pedestrian crossing in town for both pedestrians and drivers. That whole roundabout is a joke.

You should try driving in Portugal, crossings at the entry and exit of most roundabouts

skerry

ger664 wrote: »

This is the point of the arguement. Making the streets traffic free as the town currently stands is a useless excercise and will never work until such time as their is amble free parking with quick and easy access in and out of this. This requires business owners and the UDC having to make scarifices in the short term for a gain long term.

There is no way the UDC is going to provide free parking in Ennis let alone invest heavily in creating a managable traffic flow for the town by completely modernising the flow and layout of the town. Look how long its taking to build the much needed inner relief road. Its was planned years ago and it still is not complete.

If the investment was made in modernising the town it will benefit future generations, as it stands Ennis like many other large towns will be become wastelands and just places where people live.




You should try driving in Portugal, crossings at the entry and exit of most roundabouts

I'm always cautious driving around that corner cos I know the crossing is there, but people that aren't aware its there might be inclined to speed up once through the roundabout. Its more dangerous for pedestrians than drivers. Drivers risk getting rear ended coming off the roundabout and having to slow down straight away but its better than a pedestrian getting a slap of a car. Just seems like a ridiculous place to put a crossing, surely it could've been put a bit further down the road.

dr.fuzzenstein

Poxyshamrock wrote: »

Not at all! The Crescent is a Shopping Centre and cannot be compared to a pedestrian street in a city or town! The reason the Crescent works is due to its free car parking, its roof, its shops and its location in a suburb with over 20000 people.

And (call me crazy here) the fact that cars are not allowed inside the actual mall and you can just wander about the place without almost getting elbowed off the pavement, splashed by cars and having to pass a group of 20 people obliviously nattering on a three foot wide pavement might just have something to do with it.
I know that there are people in Ennis who love it for what it is, disorganised, chaotic and badly planned.
The fact that cars are allowed to drive through "a town with narrow winding streets which evolved around an abbey on an island in the 13th century" as someone else put it surely is a sign of insanity in the "planning" process (for lack of a better word as far as planning in Ennis and Clare is concerned).
As far as acces for disabled people is concerned: That is really grasping at the thinnest whisps of straw after all the arguments have run out.
There will always be plenty of parking with enough disable spaces near enough where anyone would want to go. If someone can't walk for more than a few meters, how does he/she get around airports, malls, pedestrian zones, large public buildings, etc?
Other means of getting around and assistance are required in that case, not keeping a 13th century town center open for a handful of people.
I say it again and anyone who can think beyond the boundaries of Clare will understand it and the others will never get it, Parnel Street and Abbey Street should NEVER have cars on them, it's insane and has a certain whiff of shenanigans about it.
It would seem that a handful of traders have a few strategic councilors in their pockets and, against the wishes of the wider public, common sense and intelligence, are blocking any moves towards pedestrianization.

P.S.: How about a poll? Then we can really see which way this cookie crumbles.

CptSternn

A poll is a great idea.

Mr. G

I completely agree and also disagree that the streets should be pedestrianised;partly because the streets mainly Abbey St, O'Connell Street & Square is way too busy with traffic.
Parking is a huge problem, where you pay €2 for 3 hours, yeah grand some might think but this looses the town business:
This is what happens to me:
I go down to Aldi to get my shopping, run over to Tesco for good coffee etc that aldi don't have and go off home. Aldi have free parking and tesco are convenient by its location and then I wouldn't really bother going near town after that, grand I'd go to the bank but like, its far too busy in the square, expensive (think about it) and takes hassle to shop in town.

If you think of how the town could be improved I think free parking in the following locations:
•car park down by Queens/bagel factory
•clare fm, they have moved across the road and still own old place as far as I know but that could be sorted. Btw, cheap parking there beside the church.
•behind AIB bank the car park there

Remove cars out of the market street corner where it connects out of oconnell street. Put very quick traffic lights in the square.

Sorted.

minnow

ger664 wrote: »

There is no way the UDC is going to provide free parking in Ennis let alone invest heavily in creating a managable traffic flow for the town by completely modernising the flow and layout of the town. Look how long its taking to build the much needed inner relief road. Its was planned years ago and it still is not complete.

From Clare FM:
3.7m Spent on 'Road To Nowhere'
It has emerged that Clare County Council has spent almost four million euro on a 'road to nowhere.'
A failure by Shannon Development to complete the route means that the road on the outskirts of the town has not been used since works on it stopped over two years ago.
Clare County Council has admitted spending 3.71million euro on a 450 metre stretch of road at the Information Age Park on the outskirts of Ennis
However, as Shannon Development has not completed the last 200m of the route, the road currently sees no traffic.
The cost of the project. works out at over 825 thousand euro per 100m.
A report in today's national newspapers quotes a Shannon Development spokeswoman as saying that a date has not been set for the completion of Northern Inner Relief Road in the Information Age Park but that it is part of their five-year development plan.

Pretty scary as another of yesterday's stories suggested that Shannon Development might get nuked in the Budget.

ger664

Its probably off topic and even wrong forum but there is another one off the kilrush road roudabout for the new National School. Which Remember the fiasco of changing the layout of Parnell Street Car Park only for it to be ripped up again a couple of months later to facilitae the flood scheme walls.

No one got fired because of this and most likely they will get promoted or a big fat send off.

This country is broke because of the way public service departments operate, communicate and delivery services.

Balagan

minnow wrote: »

From Clare FM:
3.7m Spent on 'Road To Nowhere'
It has emerged that Clare County Council has spent almost four million euro on a 'road to nowhere.'
A failure by Shannon Development to complete the route means that the road on the outskirts of the town has not been used since works on it stopped over two years ago.
Clare County Council has admitted spending 3.71million euro on a 450 metre stretch of road at the Information Age Park on the outskirts of Ennis
However, as Shannon Development has not completed the last 200m of the route, the road currently sees no traffic.
The cost of the project. works out at over 825 thousand euro per 100m.
A report in today's national newspapers quotes a Shannon Development spokeswoman as saying that a date has not been set for the completion of Northern Inner Relief Road in the Information Age Park but that it is part of their five-year development plan.

Pretty scary as another of yesterday's stories suggested that Shannon Development might get nuked in the Budget.

How many businesses have been set up in the Information Age Park and how many people are employed there? Even before the recession really took hold, the whole project seemed like pie in the sky. The misuse of Our Lady's Hospital site is criminal. They have crowded the Midwestern Hospital site with Lego buildings as if we were living in Hong Kong without a spare parcel of land on which to build a hospital while Our Lady's Hospital, a beautiful site, is wasted. We're really broken.

Lady Chatterton

Balagan wrote: »

The misuse of Our Lady's Hospital site is criminal. They have crowded the Midwestern Hospital site with Lego buildings as if we were living in Hong Kong without a spare parcel of land on which to build a hospital while Our Lady's Hospital, a beautiful site, is wasted. We're really broken.

I agree that the Our Lady's site was a wasted opportunity, it would have been an excellent site for a new hospital or a third level institution. However, there was never the will to have Ennis General upgraded even when there was money in the country to do it

Lady Chatterton

minnow wrote: »

From Clare FM:
3.7m Spent on 'Road To Nowhere'

A report in today's national newspapers quotes a Shannon Development spokeswoman as saying that a date has not been set for the completion of Northern Inner Relief Road in the Information Age Park but that it is part of their five-year development plan.

Article added to thread

Another €4m spent on road to nowhere


Gordon Deegan and Paul Melia


Friday November 18 2011

A LOCAL authority spent almost €4m on a road to nowhere which hasn't been open to traffic since it was completed more than two years ago.

Clare County Council yesterday admitted spending €3.71m on a 450-metre stretch of road leading to the Information Age Park in Ennis, but the road is not finished because Shannon Development hasn't completed the last 200 metres.

It is the second 'road to nowhere' that has emerged recently.

In 2007, Carlow County Council was sharply criticised after it gave orders for the construction of a relief road around part of the town, even though it did not own all of the land.

The road, nearly 1.5km long, was supposed to cost €5.5m and open up lands for development.

But when it was nearly completed, it emerged it did not own the final parcel of land.

The road has since opened.

Yesterday Freedom of Information figures showed that €2.78m was spent on costs associated with the Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO) for the lands.

Indefensible

Member of Clare County Council, Cllr Brian Meaney (Green), said: "€3.7m of public money spent and nothing to show for it. It is indefensible and the fault lies squarely with Shannon Development due to its failure to complete the route."

Shannon Development yesterday could not put a date on when the works will commence.

Shannon Development contributed €850,000 toward the council's costs.

- Gordon Deegan and Paul Melia

Irish Independent

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget/another-euro4m-spent-on-road-to-nowhere-2939066.html

CptSternn

In all fairness, even if they complete the road there are virtually no businesses in the park anyway.

The rent and rates are way expensive there and there is still no proper high speed fibre connections in the whole town, so how exactly are they planning on attracting any digital age businesses to the area when the costs are high and there is no proper infrastructure to support the very businesses they need to attract?

Whats sad is during the boom years FF spent millions setting up MANS in select FF towns and villages. To date, most of them are not even being used and we missed out on that as well.

Shangoes

+1 on pedestrianization. Just make the left turn a right turn at the Queens, bring traffic through the car parks and you are at most a 30 second walk to O'Connell St at all times. Would improve traffic in my opinion and the atmosphere in the town a great deal. One of the strengths Ennis has is it's medieval feel, pedestrianization would showcase that. Instead of trying to block any improvements in the town, retailers should be trying everything to improve their trade. Longer opening hours, better prices and choice and they might just win back some of us that mostly shop in Limerick or Galway

dr.fuzzenstein

Shangoes wrote: »

+1 on pedestrianization. Just make the left turn a right turn at the Queens, bring traffic through the car parks and you are at most a 30 second walk to O'Connell St at all times. Would improve traffic in my opinion and the atmosphere in the town a great deal. One of the strengths Ennis has is it's medieval feel, pedestrianization would showcase that. Instead of trying to block any improvements in the town, retailers should be trying everything to improve their trade. Longer opening hours, better prices and choice and they might just win back some of us that mostly shop in Limerick or Galway

Well said, but since your proposal is logical, workable and instantly makes sense to all but the most braindead, it will never happen.
Ennis is stuck in the 80's when it comes to doing business.
Shops closed for lunch or a half day on Saturday, so went in today to get a pair of tires (oh, we're out of tires, can you come back Tuesday, well, since I work 8 to 5 in Limerick, no), get my headlamps alligned (flat out refused unless my NCT was in 5 minutes) and buy some draft excluders for the door (well, just the rubber part, oh we don't sell those separate, you have to buy the whole part, that'll be fiddy please, no thanks) , complete washout, so will have to get all that in Limerick during the week, not going back next Saturday to waste yet another day.
Ennis is ok to buy shoes, spuds, chicken, milk, tomatoes and brillopads, everything else, forget it.

Shangoes

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

(oh, we're out of tires, can you come back Tuesday, well, since I work 8 to 5 in Limerick, no)

I once suggested to a retailer, who was giving out about the lack of trade during the week, to open late on a Thursday and Friday to try and catch some of the people like yourself. He just wouldn't believe people do anything after 6pm. :rolleyes:
I'm currently up in Blackrock in Dublin, in a way similar enough in size to Ennis, a lot of the shops are open until 9pm Thursday and Friday and 10-6 Sundays. The way they see it, rent rates and bills are fixed every month so may as well make the most of the shop.

Akrasia

A lot of the retailers in ennis don't seem to want my business, they never open when I'm in town trying to spend my money.

As far as I'm concerned retail trading hours are from 9am to 6 pm monday to saturday, anything else is providing an additional service, anything less is just driving away customers.

I have 2 small kids so I'm up at 7 most days and would love to be able to go into town to do my shopping at 9am but there's no point as most of the shops refuse to open before 10am week days, then a lot of them close for lunch at arbitrary times during the day, and lots of shops close early on saturdays.

WTF
I'd genuinely like to spend my money locally but its just a pain sometimes.

Re the pedestrianisation idea, it's blindingly obvious that abbey and o connell street should be car free. The route is already there. Allow traffic over the bridge and re-route it through abbey street car park where they can either turn right towards the tech or go through to parnell street car park. The road coming from tescos can feed left over the bridge or through to abbey street car park. Sorted. no need to spend much money.

Ennis is not too small for pedestrianisation, i lived in a small town in Holland that had lots of pedestrianisation and it was a lovely quality of life and the shopping streets were thronged with people who were delighted to be there instead of cars using the city centre as a short cut

User Friendly

1 question for you,

Did you shop in abbey street,o O'Connell street last christmas eve?

if you did then you would see why the town centre is not pedestrianised.

ollaetta

User Friendly wrote: »

Did you shop in abbey street,o O'Connell street last christmas eve?

if you did then you would see why the town centre is not pedestrianised.

Have to ask the obvious question, why?

dr.fuzzenstein

User Friendly wrote: »

1 question for you,

Did you shop in abbey street,o O'Connell street last christmas eve?

if you did then you would see why the town centre is not pedestrianised.

I remember walking around thinking "isn't it great not to be splashed, shoved into the road, elbowed and having to walk around groups of people blocking the two foot wide excuse for a footpath".
I REALLY don't see why cars HAVE to be on Abbey Street/ O'Connel Street.
I just don't. It makes no sense, it's like sharing your bed with a snake, unnecessary, scary and eventually you will get bitten in the ass.
It's like saying "I prefer riding my bike without a saddle", just making things deliberatley difficult and painful.
Saying that those two streets MUST have cars in them is like saying the Earth is flat.
Patently and obviously wrong, to such an extent that I can only wonder why anyone would say it.
It is either lack of intelligence that would make anyone say something so absurd and ludicrous, but it's hard to imagine that such a person would be allowed out unsupervised, or whoever says it knows bloody well it's bollocks, but obviously has other motives for saying so, but since I see zero benefit in these streets being full of cars and shoppers at the same time, the idea must have come from the shroom society.

Shangoes

ollaetta wrote: »

Have to ask the obvious question, why?

+1 on the why?

I actually can't think of a reason why not. Logical arguments would be that it slows traffic (rerouting traffic would increase average speed IMO, get rid of the left turn at the queens; merging/pedestrians at the height; merging at the Cathedral) reduces parking (few loading bay spots but people pulling in/out slows traffic, maybe 10 cars at most difference), disabled access (streets are not wheelchair/disable friendly at the minute!)... struggling to thing of any more, feel free to tell me!

I get the feeling that the worry is that if it happened the streets would look empty, stopping people from coming to Ennis for shopping or something. The streets are only look busy at minute because they are choked with traffic and the footpaths are too narrow for people to pass each other. I think any change in footfall is down to that many of the vested interests in the town are about 20 years behind the times more than anything else!

Johnboy1951

(streets are not wheelchair/disable friendly at the minute!)

That is not the only consideration ..... there is the question of distance to be travelled.
There are a large number of people who cannot walk very far, due to age, disability, medical or other reasons ...... how would they be catered for?
Presently they can be dropped at their destination/shop, and picked up again ..... what happens if there is no traffic allowed? ...... IMO, they go elsewhere ......

Shangoes

Disabled parking at back of Dunnes, Abbey St carpark, Parnell St carpark, Temple gate, the one in off the market. 50 meters max from ANY shop in town. Wide, properly paved streets with no traffic would actually make things much easier and safer for such people.

dr.fuzzenstein

Shangoes wrote: »

Disabled parking at back of Dunnes, Abbey St carpark, Parnell St carpark, Temple gate, the one in off the market. 50 meters max from ANY shop in town. Wide, properly paved streets with no traffic would actually make things much easier and safer for such people.

Exactly. And how come it works in thousands of other placed all over the world?

Shangoes

I think most of the opposition to this is down to plain misinformation spread for whatever reason. Like anything, it is not a silver bullet that will solve all problems but I cant see it doing any harm if implemented properly, especially if it was part of a program of events (€5 Fridays, street festivals, on street cafes etc etc). It could be the makings of a vibrant town centre.

User Friendly

ollaetta wrote: »

Have to ask the obvious question, why?

So you didnt shop in Ennis last Xmas eve then,if you had shopped in ennis you would have seen how few people were walking the streets, The local retailers dont want the streets pedestrianised and they should be listened to.

Shangoes

User Friendly wrote: »

So you didnt shop in Ennis last Xmas eve then,if you had shopped in ennis you would have seen how few people were walking the streets, The local retailers dont want the streets pedestrianised and they should be listened to.

I did and I didn't notice that. Any time they have been pedestrianised I've felt more of a festival atmosphere in the town, stopping having a chat with people I hadn't seen in a long time, was great.

I still cant see why they don't the want it pedestrianised and shouldn't they be listening to their customers?