Help-11 Year old needs braces but can't afford them

snuffysshop

My 11 year old daughter was at the orthodontist today (private) and he said she needs braces, she has a 4mm overbite and overcrowding on both sides up and bottom and that she would probably need four teeth extracted. He also said that when she is 18 that her wisdom teeth could cause overcrowding again. He said it would cost roughly 3000 thousand euros, we are both out of work and cant afford this and even if I did manage to borrow the money would she need braces again at 18. Is there any way of getting this through the health board and how would I go about it. I live in Co. Clare

Thanks

Orthoman

snuffysshop wrote: »

My 11 year old daughter was at the orthodontist today (private) and he said she needs braces, she has a 4mm overbite and overcrowding on both sides up and bottom and that she would probably need four teeth extracted. He also said that when she is 18 that her wisdom teeth could cause overcrowding again. He said it would cost roughly 3000 thousand euros, we are both out of work and cant afford this and even if I did manage to borrow the money would she need braces again at 18. Is there any way of getting this through the health board and how would I go about it. I live in Co. Clare

Thanks

Hi,
"Needs braces" to correct an irregularity is different to "Needs braces". Your child needs food, clothes, a caring family and an education. Don't wory about it for now. 4mm overbite (? overjet..... ie horizontal discrepancy) is not very severe and if crowding is the main problem treatment can probably wait to be corrected when your circumstances change. HSE's are looking at prominence of 10mm + in some areas before someone will qualify for their waiting lists, so very unlikely that your child would qualify. Best to ignore the matter for now to avoid making an issue of it. With regard to overcrowding again, prolonged retainer wear is the only solution ..... ask Willie....... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1173354/Prince-William-shows-thinning-royal-hair--reveals-hes-wearing-BRACES.html

Best of luck and hope matters improve for you.

day dreamer

Hi there

to access orthodontic treatment through the HSE contact the local HSE dental clinic. The guidelines are very strict so only the worst or most severe cases qualify. There are also very long waiting lists

I would put treatment off for now if you cannot afford it. Her teeth will be perfectly healthy provided she keeps them clean and doesnt eat too many sweet things. If she does have the treatment now the teeth will remain straight if she wears retainers, if she doesnt wear retainers then the teeth will probably go crooked even if she was to have the wisdom teeth removed.

Best of luck

snuffysshop

Thanks for your reply day dreamer, I rang orthodontist today and have put appointment off, she is only 11 so there is plenty of time and hopefully my financial situation will change (if we ever come out of this recession)

later12

I had braces as a kid (early 1990s) and as we were pretty much stony broke at that time I'm reasonably sure they were of the health board (as it was then) variety, not private. But I didn't have particularly bad teeth just minor abberations, in fact neither did any of my siblings and 2 others of them had braces.

So what changed? How come Ireland was able to afford this kind of orthodontic treatment in the early 1990s and not 2011?

work

I hear something about the government being a bit skint..Maybe I am Wrong? I think it is a disgrace everybody does not get free braces (especially people who do not need them but really want them)...who needs cancer care anyway?

later10 wrote: »

I had braces as a kid (early 1990s) and as we were pretty much stony broke at that time I'm reasonably sure they were of the health board (as it was then) variety, not private. But I didn't have particularly bad teeth just minor abberations, in fact neither did any of my siblings and 2 others of them had braces.

So what changed? How come Ireland was able to afford this kind of orthodontic treatment in the early 1990s and not 2011?

hg03 eyu

As a matter of fact I believe there is a dail sub-committee for orthodontics but none for trivial matters such as heart disease or cancer!

snuffysshop

the dail com does'nt do a lot of good if people that really NEED braces have to wait 3-5 years, what kind of society do we live in at all, luckily my daughter's teeth are'nt to bad but there are kids that are much worse and have no confidence in them selves because of it and it will affect there emotional development but the government don't care like they dont care for health or education

bryaner

Did you think about Northern Ireland, I'd guess half price or so..

btkm8unsl0w5r4

snuffysshop wrote: »

the dail com does'nt do a lot of good if people that really NEED braces have to wait 3-5 years,

See thats the problem, nobody NEEDS braces. They want braces, braces would be best for them, but they don't need them. In an ideal world everyone would get orthodontics, its better for your long term oral health and your confidence, however in a system with limited resources, now more limited than ever, those resources must be put where they will do most good for the most number of people.

bryaner wrote: »

Did you think about Northern Ireland, I'd guess half price or so..

However the good news is that private orthodontics in the South is now cheaper than ever (and cheaper than the north). A 3 year course of braces with a specialist orthodontist can cost as little as 60-100 euro a month. Travelling for braces is totally stupid as adjustment need to be made every 1-2 months meaning 18-30 visits. Pick an orthodontist close you your kids school or your work.

SMCG

I live in Galway, and wondering if anyone has had experience of an orthodontist here who they would consider recommending, and importantly - what does it actually cost? I've heard it's about £2000 across the border and I'd like a comparison.

day dreamer

The orthodontic service in the 1990's through the HSE or Health Boards at the time was very limited. I would say more patients are being treated now than back then.

At the moment there are more orthodontists employed by the HSE than there were in the 1990's. Also the guidelines are less strict and more scientific so more children qualify. The current recruitment ban means that when people leave they are not replaced leaving those left behind to do the job of 2.

The cost of private treatment for a child is about 3500 on average over 2 years for a specialist. There is 20% tax relief available for those lucky enough to still have a job.

A recent phone call priced specialist orthodontic treatment at €3300 in Enniskillen and £2500 in Newry. When you consider you will need 15-20 trips, unless you live on the border it is more expensive in the North. Also the people living in the North cant get the 20% tax relief which is often not considered when the prices are being compared.

Look up www.orthodontics.ie Remember that for most people treatment is not urgent so if you have to hold off a year and save it usually wont have a major impact on the treatment but get an opinion first

Bella mamma

Simone Wailing Spirits wrote: »

See thats the problem, nobody NEEDS braces. They want braces, braces would be best for them, but they don't need them. In an ideal world everyone would get orthodontics, its better for your long term oral health and your confidence, however in a system with limited resources, now more limited than ever, those resources must be put where they will do most good for the most number of people.

However the good news is that private orthodontics in the South is now cheaper than ever (and cheaper than the north). A 3 year course of braces with a specialist orthodontist can cost as little as 60-100 euro a month. Travelling for braces is totally stupid as adjustment need to be made every 1-2 months meaning 18-30 visits. Pick an orthodontist close you your kids school or your work.

Hi. Am in South Dublin, looking for braces for a teen. Without knowing anything about dental, I would say The Teen's is a pretty straightforward case ( from The Dentists).

Re your costing above that would be €3600 or less. I'm finding €4k+, with an initial consult of €120 (for consult/get x-rays/return with x-rays). Plus extra 'small cost' for clears, I should have asked specifically. The practice location is very convenient so no travel/parking costs. Am not in a position to pay any lump sum so asked straight-off, could I pay equal monthly payments for the duration and that was accepted
Question 1: So is there room for negotiation in 2012?

Over the phone I've been told 18-24 months.
Question 2: Are you including 1 year follow-up and/or including difficult to treat cases and/or maximum treatment duration with the 3yr time frame?

The Teen is happy to wear them/no resistance, however I said (maybe unnecessarily) I would get clear ones as an incentive, assume thou only top clears. The Orthodontist practice I am considering tells me that clears are more difficult to put on/take off and can lead to longer duration of treatment and they would try dissuade The Teen, if possible, by saying that.
Question 3: Is this correct?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Question 1: You can try negioatate if you want. It may or may not work. Usually a discount is given for paying upfront.

Question 2 and 3 are best answered by the orthodontist you have seen, nobody else could possible know the answers. Ceramic brackets have less friction that is true.

Bella mamma

Simone Wailing Spirits wrote: »

Question 1: You can try negioatate if you want. It may or may not work. Usually a discount is given for paying upfront.

Question 2 and 3 are best answered by the orthodontist you have seen, nobody else could possible know the answers. Ceramic brackets have less friction that is true.

Many thanks. They used to to 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 but found few people can make that now, so do monthly often.

Regarding current pricing, what does anyone think of ~€4k? Any recent quotes??

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Nobody can answer that question as the difficulty of your daughters case is not known. Price will vary depends on the job involved. You would need to bring her for another consultation elsewhere to judge relative price. 4k could be very good price? Is 50 euro a good price for a meal, depends on the meal doesn't it. Your not buying braces, your buying the professional service of having her teeth straightened.

purplepug

Interesting reading.. I came here to enquire about braces for one of my 8 year old twins, she has an overbite that u could quite easily fit a finger in. And seems to have happened quite rapidly too. I had heard there was a 5+ year wait for braces on the Medical Card so I was reckoning the sooner I applied the better. Would I go to her school dentist to ask do you think?

cynder

I got free braces in 1995 due to an 11mm over bite. Minimum over bite allowed was 10mm, I was supposed to get them at 12 but we moved and they lost contact with us. It was very painful I had to wear a head brace at night and got head aches. I still have a 4mm over bite, had 2 teeth removed, no over crowding, 2 top wisdom teeth came in fine, never got my bottom ones.

cynder

purplepug wrote: »

Interesting reading.. I came here to enquire about braces for one of my 8 year old twins, she has an overbite that u could quite easily fit a finger in. And seems to have happened quite rapidly too. I had heard there was a 5+ year wait for braces on the Medical Card so I was reckoning the sooner I applied the better. Would I go to her school dentist to ask do you think?

Speak to your local dental childrens clinic. the clinic the school sends them too they normally see kids in 2nd class and only for emergencies or for treatment after that. They will measure the overbite, less than 10mm and she probably wont get free braces.

purplepug

Not pleasant I'm sure, I had braces when I was younger also though mine was for alignment (and in england) I'd just rather she got into the system now if its going to take that long to be accepted for it.

purplepug

grindelwald wrote: »

Speak to your local dental childrens clinic. the clinic the school sends them too they normally see kids in 2nd class and only for emergencies or for treatment after that. They will measure the overbite, less than 10mm and she probably wont get free braces.

Yes I think I will go up to them. Its more than 10mm anyway but I'm sure they will tell me for definite

Bella mamma

purplepug wrote: »

Interesting reading.. I came here to enquire about braces for one of my 8 year old twins, she has an overbite that u could quite easily fit a finger in. And seems to have happened quite rapidly too. I had heard there was a 5+ year wait for braces on the Medical Card so I was reckoning the sooner I applied the better. Would I go to her school dentist to ask do you think?

Hi there. After getting a dentist's reply above (Fitzgeme) telling me "4k could be very good price? Is 50 euro a good price for a meal, depends on the meal doesn't it. Your not buying braces, your buying the professional service of having her teeth straightened", I thought 'What a ridiculous reply! '', thou I had actually read it here before when I searched.

Why would a dentist who previously wrote on this thread 1/9/11 ".... the good news is that private orthodontics in the South is now cheaper than ever (and cheaper than the north). A 3 year course of braces with a specialist orthodontist can cost as little as 60-100 euro a month. ....", now think that I/and other readers/posters would like to splash out in Chapter One, when we can have a lovely, satisfying meal in Cafe Bar Deli, €30 versus €13? Answer = we wouldn't. Those days are gone.

Fitzgeme, I found your reply insulting. Since them I phoned every single Orthodontist listed in the Dublin/Greater Dublin area, and then Leinster. Everyone was quoting €3.6k to €4k. Price fixing??? But you had quoted lower than that on that 1/9/11 post, and this is your job so I wasn't paying that. I was also told by several practices that I needed to get the X-Ray done at 'X Private Clinic' for €80, when this service is available at no charge in a children's hospital. This was acknowledged when I said it but "it might take a few weeks". So???

Bottom line? You were right and you were wrong. I got the service for €2400 for top/bottom ceramic braces, so you were right on lower prices being available. I just spent a few minutes saying €3.6k to €4k was too expensive. Most places came below, or very close, to €3k. Hey presto when you ask politely! You were wrong to bluntly say €4k might be a very good price. It was nowhere near it. Had I gone with that I would have paid €1600 more. PLUS a €120 consult and €100 extra for ceramic = €1820. A fool and their money are easily parted. We ain't fools on Boards.

Oral Surgeon

Bella mamma wrote: »

Hi there. After getting a dentist's reply above (Fitzgeme) telling me "4k could be very good price? Is 50 euro a good price for a meal, depends on the meal doesn't it. Your not buying braces, your buying the professional service of having her teeth straightened", I thought 'What a ridiculous reply! '', thou I had actually read it here before when I searched.

Why would a dentist who previously wrote on this thread 1/9/11 ".... the good news is that private orthodontics in the South is now cheaper than ever (and cheaper than the north). A 3 year course of braces with a specialist orthodontist can cost as little as 60-100 euro a month. ....", now think that I/and other readers/posters would like to splash out in Chapter One, when we can have a lovely, satisfying meal in Cafe Bar Deli, €30 versus €13? Answer = we wouldn't. Those days are gone.

Fitzgeme, I found your reply insulting. Since them I phoned every single Orthodontist listed in the Dublin/Greater Dublin area, and then Leinster. Everyone was quoting €3.6k to €4k. Price fixing??? But you had quoted lower than that on that 1/9/11 post, and this is your job so I wasn't paying that. I was also told by several practices that I needed to get the X-Ray done at 'X Private Clinic' for €80, when this service is available at no charge in a children's hospital. This was acknowledged when I said it but "it might take a few weeks". So???

Bottom line? You were right and you were wrong. I got the service for €2400 for top/bottom ceramic braces, so you were right on lower prices being available. I just spent a few minutes saying €3.6k to €4k was too expensive. Most places came below, or very close, to €3k. Hey presto when you ask politely! You were wrong to bluntly say €4k might be a very good price. It was nowhere near it. Had I gone with that I would have paid €1600 more. PLUS a €120 consult and €100 extra for ceramic = €1820. A fool and their money are easily parted. We ain't fools on Boards.

If you are going to quote someone, then quote the whole lot;

Simone Wailing Spirits wrote: »

Nobody can answer that question as the difficulty of your daughters case is not known. Price will vary depends on the job involved. You would need to bring her for another consultation elsewhere to judge relative price. 4k could be very good price? Is 50 euro a good price for a meal, depends on the meal doesn't it. Your not buying braces, your buying the professional service of having her teeth straightened.

Especially the piece where no one can answer that question as a year of orthodontics will cost less than 3 years of orthodontics.... There may be a need for extractions or not, there may be a need for implant ancorage, palatal expansion, other surgical treatment... and on and on. So just like fitz said; €4000 could be a very good price?
He also suggested that you get another consultation and price(you left that bit out too...) which you did and got a cheaper quote- so what are you giving out about....

No one is telling you to eat in Chapter one or Shanahans on the Green, you can eat in Burger King if you like- it was an analogy.....!!!

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Seriously not all children's braces are the same. How can I quote a price for a case I have never seen. What does my suggestion of price from before have to do with your child? One case may take a long time and 4k would be a very good price, 2400 euro in your case might be a total rip off. Nobody here can tell (which I said many times in the clearest possible way I could). My point which seem to have totally passed you by was that not all cases are them same so you cannot ring up and get an accurate price when you ask for "braces for my child". I get people ring the clinic all the time (I don't do braces BTW so my advice to you here was totally altruistic) asking for the price of one treatment item or another. I have two choices either give an estimate high enough to cover all possible eventualities or one nice and low to get you in the door ( this is called lowballing) and then if it turns out to be complex I have to charge more but your committed then.

I am sorry that my attempt to give you some advice (which you took and benefited from :rolleyes:) has angered you so and that an analogy has stimulated some sort of recession outrage gland in your brain. I will not bother in the future. Hope your childs braces go well. I give up..............:(

P.S. The 10% price variance on blind over the phone pricing would seem to suggest the contrary of price fixing....

Oral Surgeon

[/Quote]

Dianthus

Maybe I'm the one misunderstanding or misquoting here, but Bellamamma, are you saying you've been quoted a fixed price of €2400 for braces by the receptionist on the phone, no consultation with an orthodontist for assessment, & a €600 reduction from the original quote within minutes?

park500

I was also told by several practices that I needed to get the X-Ray done at 'X Private Clinic' for €80, when this service is available at no charge in a children's hospital.

Hi Bella mamma, I wasnt aware of this. Would you mind saying if you recieved this service for free and at which hospital. Did you recieve a copy of your x-rays?

Was the quotation for the braces from a qualified orthodontist?

Encorus

I would definitely get a second opinion treatment-wise and price-wise from another orthodontist. Especially as the current one says 4 teeth must be extracted.

day dreamer

Bellamama

I wish you and your child well with the orthodontic treatment. You shopped around and got a lot of different quotes. Surely this is evidence that there is no price fixing.

If you got a lot of quotes over the phone and there is a big difference between them and the quote you got when you actually visited a specialist orthodontist then I would be wary.

Wait until your child has been examined and given a written treatment plan and quote by a specialist orthodontist, only then can you compare the costs and plans.

Best of luck

florawest

Hi, my sixteen year old year has his braces on now about 1.5 years, that for me is 1.5 hours drive every six week, i paid every time i visited, have finally paid off and he is still going, i too would have got discount if i paid upfront but i couldn't afford it, why not consider a little family help instead of birthday presents etc cash towards lovely teeth:D:D:D am off to Sligo again next week, hate the driving but was cheaper there than my local city, good luck with your choices

Bearcat

I have 2 teens under braces treatment. I staggered their treatment to roll with the costs. I paid a " bag of sand" up front to kick off each treatment. The treatment is on a 3 year plan. Each visit I pay 200€ or less......the treatment plan is an agreed fixed cost so if there's an over run there's no more extras unless other treatment is required outside the remit of the braces treatment.
Don't pm to see who this dentist is, needless to say a specialist dentist south side dublin that deals with kids/teens. The dentist deals with everyone on a individual case and formulates a financial plan. Very trusting I know but I signed a "contract" agreeing to the fee structure and agreeing if any costs outstanding at the end of the treatment that they will be discharged fully.

I'm a year and two years into this braces stuff......I have seen a Massive change in my kids teeth structure and appearance. The money up front I paid out hurt badly but well worth it when you see the results as against misaligned teeth.

deb123

I'm not long back from an orthodontist consult with my 11 year old daughter. Her bottom teeth are severely overcrowded, top mildly overcrowded and she has a slight overbite. I expected that she would need 2 teeth removed from the bottom but what I wasn't expecting was that he wants to remove two teeth from the top also. Our regular dentist was talking about using braces to encourage her jaw to grow a certain way but the orthodontist was quite dismissive of this idea. I'm feeling a little lost! Does anyone have any experience of orthodontics encouraging bone growth?

happyday

grindelwald wrote: »

Speak to your local dental childrens clinic. the clinic the school sends them too they normally see kids in 2nd class and only for emergencies or for treatment after that. They will measure the overbite, less than 10mm and she probably wont get free braces.

This is the way to go. I rang the clinic myself each time my son and daughter needed treatment. My own dentist told me to as you can get fissure seals for free there and he didn't want to charge me for them. I also got the clinic to refer my son to the orthodontic section and he has braces now. They have cleared the backlog in Cork and are seeing far less severe cases now than previously.

Medical cards do not cover you for orthodontic treatment and you do not have to have one to get this service for your children.

day dreamer

Hi Deb123

It isnt possible to give an opinion about what the dentist and orthodontist said to you without examining your child.

From what you say there is a lot of lower crowding. I think you did the right thing by going to the dentist and then you were referrred to an orthodontist.

If you think about it, the dentist is not providing the treatment because they have referred you on to a specialist. The dentist was probably just giving an opinion but ultimatley it is the orthodontist who has offered the treatment and will have to stand over it. If you are unhappy with what the orthodontist said then discuss your concerns with the orthodontist or the dentist or ask the dentist for a referral to another orthodontist for a 2nd opinion

Stringvest

Bella mamma wrote: »

Hi there. After getting a dentist's reply above (Fitzgeme) telling me "4k could be very good price? Is 50 euro a good price for a meal, depends on the meal doesn't it. Your not buying braces, your buying the professional service of having her teeth straightened", I thought 'What a ridiculous reply! '', thou I had actually read it here before when I searched.

Why would a dentist who previously wrote on this thread 1/9/11 ".... the good news is that private orthodontics in the South is now cheaper than ever (and cheaper than the north). A 3 year course of braces with a specialist orthodontist can cost as little as 60-100 euro a month. ....", now think that I/and other readers/posters would like to splash out in Chapter One, when we can have a lovely, satisfying meal in Cafe Bar Deli, €30 versus €13? Answer = we wouldn't. Those days are gone.

Fitzgeme, I found your reply insulting. Since them I phoned every single Orthodontist listed in the Dublin/Greater Dublin area, and then Leinster. Everyone was quoting €3.6k to €4k. Price fixing??? But you had quoted lower than that on that 1/9/11 post, and this is your job so I wasn't paying that. I was also told by several practices that I needed to get the X-Ray done at 'X Private Clinic' for €80, when this service is available at no charge in a children's hospital. This was acknowledged when I said it but "it might take a few weeks". So???

Bottom line? You were right and you were wrong. I got the service for €2400 for top/bottom ceramic braces, so you were right on lower prices being available. I just spent a few minutes saying €3.6k to €4k was too expensive. Most places came below, or very close, to €3k. Hey presto when you ask politely! You were wrong to bluntly say €4k might be a very good price. It was nowhere near it. Had I gone with that I would have paid €1600 more. PLUS a €120 consult and €100 extra for ceramic = €1820. A fool and their money are easily parted. We ain't fools on Boards.

Hi Bella mamma, that sounds like a great deal on the ceramic braces. Could you pass me on the details of the orthodontist please? Thanks

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Stringvest wrote: »

Hi Bella mamma, that sounds like a great deal on the ceramic braces. Could you pass me on the details of the orthodontist please? Thanks

That poster has not logged onto boards since Feb this year, I doubt you will get a reply. Old thread....closed.